4-5-1 GTF!!

[Ray Winstone]

I can see someone like you being on here close to tears after a derby loss or old firm hammering questioning this 4-5-1 when we are completely outplayed and overrun.

 

Yet you are close to tears after winning 1-0 against ICT, sitting second in the league and keeping our first clean sheet of the season!

 

It really does make you think....

 

As for a derby loss or an old firm hammering.......well you will just have take my word for it that it wont be me.

[hinksikensi]

nah the boo not slashing my wrists mate! not yet anyway:). just i give an honest opinion of a game, not blinkered into thinking all is well at hearts. we were p1sh today, anyone thats says different is kidding themselves. 2nd is a false position, anyone that thinks different is kidding themselves. can u come into reality please the boo

[H.A.N.S]

No but there are people who seem to be slashing their wrists for some strange reason:rolleyes:

 

Wouldn't say slashing their wrists just realistic. I'd like nothing better to play 4-5-1 if it meant in May we were third with three derby win I'd be first on here saying I was wrong. Just not confident at all with this system so I won't pretend I am. Any decent side will exploit it.

[H.A.N.S]

Yet you are close to tears after winning 1-0 against ICT, sitting second in the league and keeping our first clean sheet of the season!

 

It really does make you think....

 

As for a derby loss or an old firm hammering.......well you will just have take my word for it that it wont be me.

 

Get the bubbly out!

 

People just need to be realistic - we've beaten nothing so far apart from maybe Motherwell. Next 5 games will show you how far we've come and what 4-5-1 against decent opposition does for us.

[jambo19]

Its 4 4 1 1 but i agree its no good. Yes we won but just ffs. Any good side would have done us today but a wins a win. Agree also,laryea needs dropped til he shows what hes capable of again.Audreys a waste of space and should be kicked out for good. Moles never gonna get the supply he needs cos he sits too deep in the formation. Nade and Glen should have started today to see what they can do.All our goals are coming from midfield which is fine but what when they dry up???? Our strikers are gash when playing this formation. Mikey was great as usual tho,thot it was risky hooking at the end.

 

maybe its no good as the players playing in it are crap-audrey at att mid, mole upfront

 

get a target man up front and i dont mind mole behind him as he's good running in areas but cant play by himself upfront

[givememychoice]

What a lot of rubbish. I am a season ticket holder I am delighted at 2rd but are the awarding Champion's League places out in the next hour? I am looking at the bigger picture and 4-5-1 at home against that calibre is bad. As I said before any decent side would slaughter that. I am pleased for your league table but if we keep playing like this we won't be there in 5 games time IMO.

 

Clearly, you havent got a clue about football. The drawback of the 4-5-1 system is that its pretty defensive and thus a)isnt pretty to watch means you dont score many goals. However, it means you dont conceed many.

This playing with 10 men malarky is a load of rubbish. the lone striker stays on the halfway line for corners etc meaning that the opposition have to keep 2 defensive players back. so its not like you are suddenly outnumbered. I rather suspect you were one of those booing when we were knocking the ball round the defence when we were 1-0 up. Its shocking how many people clearly have no idea about football. Retaining posession while in the lead is very good. Its what the Italians have done for years.

[Denny Crane]

What a lot of rubbish. I am a season ticket holder I am delighted at 2rd but are the awarding Champion's League places out in the next hour? I am looking at the bigger picture and 4-5-1 at home against that calibre is bad. As I said before any decent side would slaughter that. I am pleased for your league table but if we keep playing like this we won't be there in 5 games time IMO.

 

How is that relevant to 4-5-1 or are you trying to play the "I'm a better fan than you" card?

 

Would you rather be playing 4-4-2 and be bottom?

[artfuldodger]

No section N.

 

I would take 1 nil wins til the cows come home too but reality is this formation will get seriously exploited against better sides, like it was last season.

 

typical fan that knows nothing about football .would you rather 2 up front and lose

[stirlo]

I'd love us to play 4-4-2 and beat teams like ICT 3 or 4-0 - but we just do not have the players to do that at the moment. Yesterday's game was exactly the sort of game we were losing last season (remember the 3-2 defeat in December?), with almost exactly the same set of players.

[Debut 4]

Agree with HANS. One of our big problems yesterday for the midfield was they didn`t have a enough targets to hit when they looked to go forward.

 

IMO, it would help the likes of Larry and Stewart to have more freedom if they had two strikers dragging defenders about to open space because most of the time teams can overwhelm our wide men because they have spare men to cover.

 

It must be murder being a midfielder for Hearts just now because they have lack of options to hit.

 

We were so deep yesterday we spent most of the time passing in our own half.

[The Comedian]

The formation Is more a reaction to our striker issue than a proper decision. At the minute It's required. Once we have more options we will be more attacking. Csaba did say he wants 2 up-front.

 

We can't grumble anyway, In all likelihood we'll be third after today's games. That will do me. Also the quality of opposition doesn't concern Hearts, you beat what's put In front of you.

 

As to the game yesterday our goalkeeper Is many peoples man of the match. That tell's you everything IMO. Pretty poor on that particular day but hey ho.

[bighusref]

Obviously you turned away when Nade came on??

 

That was as close as you are going to get to 4-4-2 and it was actually less effective having 2 strikers on the park.

 

Perhaps they are the wrong strikers to have but thats how it goes.

 

4-5-1 has achieved 12 points out of a possible 18.

 

Not to bad if you ask me.

 

Mole dropped back nearer to midfield when Nade came on. We did not play 4-4-2 yesterday.

 

Before anybody says anything, I was pleased with the win, to have a criticism about the side does not automatically mean that I was unhappy to win.

 

I feel that we are making hard work of games by not having enough men up top. That is demonstrated by all our wins this season being by one goal margins. I would prefer to see us play with two strikers.

[Drylaw Hearts]

We are just horrible to watch at the moment.

 

The results are better and we're scraping wins but in reality Csaba has not improved the teams performences one bit.

 

We never look as though we're going to hammer a team.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

Joke formation. For another home game against the likes of I.C.T to play with one forward and the midget "in the hole" is laughable. We should be coming out and beating teams like this comfortably 2 or 3-0. Not sitting on the edge of our seats contemplating an equaliser. Wallace is horrendoud, Berra marginally better and Kingston saunters about without any urgency at all. Jonnson is going to be a great right back in the future too.

 

"Management" may change but this farcical formation remains.

 

Coincidence?

 

We were crap last season and therefore have no God given right to beat any team 2 or 3 nothing right now.

I'll take the 3 points for now.

[N User]

In the first half we created loads of chances and it ws the formation we used that helped do that.

Had we played a basic 4-4-2 we would not have had the link up play to create many of these chances and even score the goal.

 

In my opinion we were playing more of a 4 4 1 1 yesterday and it was probably close to a 4-4-2 than a 4-5-1

 

We quite clearly had two banks of 4 with Mole up front and Ksanavicius only slightly behind him.

Mole and Ksanavicius didn't have the greatest of game and may not be the right men for the job but I quite like the formation we've got.

Had we a right midfielder with the same drive as Miko yesterday, we probably would have scored more.

[Randy Marsh]

The 4-5-1 formation is a a farce.

 

I feel sorry for Mole - he needs someone up there with him.

 

We have marginally got away with it in all our 4 wins this season but our luck will run out soon if, whatever muppet that picks the team, continues to deploy this disgraceful formation.

 

You would have thought that after the Airdrie game it would have been binned for good. But no!

 

By all means i am delighted with each victory but watching Hearts is so ****ing boring the now! We have the potentilal to be good so 4-4-2 NOW PLEASE.

[Stuartinho]

i think we played great yesterday, csaba is doing really well. mole looked excellent. shame we couldnt get riordan tho he wudda been perfect out wide left in this formation rather than obua!

[Debut 4]

Matt74`s post is a fine one and great in theory, but we are in a different time now.

 

The minute any Hearts players show a bit of form or quality the big boys come knocking.

 

When is the last time you can remember a Hearts squad being allowed to stay together more than two seasons in terms of it`s better players?

 

Unfortunately, managers have to try harder than ever to get it right quicker.

[H.A.N.S]

How is that relevant to 4-5-1 or are you trying to play the "I'm a better fan than you" card?

 

Would you rather be playing 4-4-2 and be bottom?

 

What are you slavering about now Matt? The season ticket part was only mentioned as some pillock had suggested I was a Hobo. No "better fan" card at all. If you had been paying attention to the thread you'd have noticed this.

[H.A.N.S]

typical fan that knows nothing about football .would you rather 2 up front and lose

 

You thick?

 

Where have I said this?

[JamboRossi79]

Give it a rest, we won.

[H.A.N.S]

Give it a rest, we won.

 

Almost speechless with that.

 

In front of about 12'000 odd fans we were dire and scrapped a 1-0 win over I.C.T with times everyone behind the ball.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

The last time I remember us "humping" ICT was in Sept 2006 when we won 4-1. Jamie Mole was fantastic that day.

 

We have regressed in quality since then. As far as I am concerned, a win is a win. I didn't realise we had the right to win 3 or 4 nil every week.

[Drylaw Hearts]

The last time I remember us "humping" ICT was in Sept 2006 when we won 4-1. Jamie Mole was fantastic that day.

 

We have regressed in quality since then. As far as I am concerned, a win is a win. I didn't realise we had the right to win 3 or 4 nil every week.

 

We don't.

 

But it would be nice every once in a while.

[JamboRossi79]

Almost speechless with that.

 

In front of about 12'000 odd fans we were dire and scrapped a 1-0 win over I.C.T with times everyone behind the ball.

 

You almost sound upset that we won, now I would consider that odd from a Hearts supporter.

[JamboRossi79]

The last time I remember us "humping" ICT was in Sept 2006 when we won 4-1. Jamie Mole was fantastic that day.

 

We have regressed in quality since then. As far as I am concerned, a win is a win. I didn't realise we had the right to win 3 or 4 nil every week.

 

We did give them a bit of a doing last season up there with Elliot bagging 2 in a 3-0 win.

[H.A.N.S]

The last time I remember us "humping" ICT was in Sept 2006 when we won 4-1. Jamie Mole was fantastic that day.

 

We have regressed in quality since then. As far as I am concerned, a win is a win. I didn't realise we had the right to win 3 or 4 nil every week.

 

Even if not 3 or 4 nil we should still be creating far more, spending more time in their half and no defending as much. I wouldn't expect us to win every week. Just against inferior opposition, particularly at home.

 

For the wages we pay it's bad.

[H.A.N.S]

You almost sound upset that we won, now I would consider that odd from a Hearts supporter.

 

Think I am looking at the bigger picture

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Even if not 3 or 4 nil we should still be creating far more, spending more time in their half and no defending as much. I wouldn't expect us to win every week. Just against inferior opposition, particularly at home.

 

For the wages we pay it's bad.

 

Yep, our wage bill is too high.

 

However, it is difficult to cut it when certain players realise that they wouldn't get paid as much elsewhere as they are on easy street at Tynecastle.

 

While that gets addressed, we will have to endure grinding out results. As long as we win, that's the main thing.

[H.A.N.S]

Yep, our wage bill is too high.

 

However, it is difficult to cut it when certain players realise that they wouldn't get paid as much elsewhere as they are on easy street at Tynecastle.

 

While that gets addressed, we will have to endure grinding out results. As long as we win, that's the main thing.

 

I was referring to the wages some people on the pitch pick up. Take Kingston for example. On more than the whole I.C.T put together and you'd have trouble realising that on performance alone.

 

Of course it's great to win but can you sit there and say if we play this formation the next 5 games we'll pick up more than 1 win?

[Denny Crane]

What are you slavering about now Matt? The season ticket part was only mentioned as some pillock had suggested I was a Hobo. No "better fan" card at all. If you had been paying attention to the thread you'd have noticed this.

 

It smacked of "look at me aren't I greater than thou". You may wish you provide further clarity to your posts lest this not be your actual intention.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I was referring to the wages some people on the pitch pick up. Take Kingston for example. On more than the whole I.C.T put together and you'd have trouble realising that on performance alone.

 

Of course it's great to win but can you sit there and say if we play this formation the next 5 games we'll pick up more than 1 win?

 

FWIW, by all the accounts I've read and what I've listened to and seen, Kingston should be dropped.

 

However, with three of our wide players injured, it isn't exactly easy to leave him out. Better that Csaba tries to cajole an improved performance out of him till we have more options.

 

I do think though that our fans need to realise that if the quality level of the squad is mediocre that the team needs more help from the stands. That means encouragement rather than abuse. I'm not saying not to rant about it on here. I'm talking about the audible abuse being aimed at some players for, er, passing to a team mate.

[H.A.N.S]

It smacked of "look at me aren't I greater than thou". You may wish you provide further clarity to your posts lest this not be your actual intention.

 

Or you could read the thread properly and actually check the response it was intended for?

[Denny Crane]

Or you could read the thread properly and actually check the response it was intended for?

 

I have and have made my thoughts on 4-5-1 crystal clear.

[JamboMarc]

I really hope this 4-4-1-1 thing is just used until Nade and Tullberg are fully fit, the nill play 4-4-2, but I just cant see that happening. If we are going to play 4-4-1-1 I think we definatly need a big presense up front, ie Tullberg, with Obua in behind. I still think Obua will come good for us, just give him time to adapt to Scottish football.

[bighalders]

Agree with OP, 4-5-1 or 4-4-1-1 are awful.. They are Korobochkas tactic from last season inherited by the current puppet

[topcat]

The idea that we're not playing sufficiently attacking football is hokum.

 

Only Rangers(12) and Celtic(14) have scored more goals than Hearts (9) far

Only the Falkirk(11), Motherwell(11) and Dundee United(9) have Conceded more than Hearts (8) so far.

 

The real problem has been at the back.

 

Saturday's first clean sheet of the season was a good step forward towards solving that and to be honest I'd rather have had that 1-0 win than a 3-2.

 

I moved from Section B to Section G so I could watch the defence properly for both halves and they already seem to be a bit better marshalled that a few weeks ago. They're still accident prone and remain a "work in progress" but Csaba is a coach not a magician.

 

We're a long way from the point where we can start celebrating as soon as we go ahead and there was an understandable nervousness around Tynecastle yesterday as people have begun to think that one goal isn't enough.

 

Up until Saturday they've been right.

 

And that's the real problem. Enterprising runs, cracking strikes and big margins of victory will do a lot to improve the atmosphere at Tynecastle but what is really needed now is for the defence to tighten up and allow the stench of fear to evaporate from the stands.

[Gershwin]

In the first half we created loads of chances and it ws the formation we used that helped do that.

Had we played a basic 4-4-2 we would not have had the link up play to create many of these chances and even score the goal.

 

In my opinion we were playing more of a 4 4 1 1 yesterday and it was probably close to a 4-4-2 than a 4-5-1

 

We quite clearly had two banks of 4 with Mole up front and Ksanavicius only slightly behind him.

Mole and Ksanavicius didn't have the greatest of game and may not be the right men for the job but I quite like the formation we've got.

Had we a right midfielder with the same drive as Miko yesterday, we probably would have scored more.

 

Totally agree. Miko and Driver on the wings. Nade and GlenTullberg up top. It could be a very good formation.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Is Obua supposed to be the player who will make this wonderful formation work?

 

From what I've seen of him so far he'll be about as effective there as Ksnavicius.

 

Obua is another one I feel would benefit greatly from 3 or 4 weeks in the reserves getting to the pace/frenetic activity of the Scottish game.

[Coco]

Obua is another one I feel would benefit greatly from 3 or 4 weeks in the reserves getting to the pace/frenetic activity of the Scottish game.

 

Agree, he was clearly not up to the pace in the games he got. Thrown in too early at least.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Agree, he was clearly not up to the pace in the games he got. Thrown in too early at least.

 

We have a bad habit of doing that with players. The Scottish game is all about energy and stamina with occasional outbreaks of skill and finesse and it must be a real shock to the system for some. I'll probably get pelters here but if we'd done that with Beniusless we may have got a lot more in return, after all he has a better goal scoring record in Lithuania that Velicka and he did ok here.

[Ally Alexander]

I don't think the issue is as straight forward as either 4-4-2 versus 4-5-1. The manager had to look at how the opposition line up. Not too familar with the SPL but I wager not many attempt to play 4-4-2 with 2 light-weight wingers. We have seen in the past how we have been overrun in midfield when lining up as such. IMHO, a return to 4 in midfield with Miko and driver on teh wingers would be asking for trouble. One of the main problems at the moment is that Kingston is not adding substance to the midfield. Also as well documented is the lack of a killer instinct.

 

however, the team is evolving - I look forward to and hope to see gradual improvement where Chaba finds a goal scorer (hopefully from within ranks) and the required balancto provide a platform for entertaining football. First all all, though, results matter - we have to appreciate that the team's confidence is very fagile after the last 2 years and Chaba seems to be good a reasonably effective job in restoring it.

[Coco]

I don't think the issue is as straight forward as either 4-4-2 versus 4-5-1. The manager had to look at how the opposition line up. Not too familar with the SPL but I wager not many attempt to play 4-4-2 with 2 light-weight wingers. We have seen in the past how we have been overrun in midfield when lining up as such. IMHO, a return to 4 in midfield with Miko and driver on teh wingers would be asking for trouble. One of the main problems at the moment is that Kingston is not adding substance to the midfield. Also as well documented is the lack of a killer instinct.

 

however, the team is evolving - I look forward to and hope to see gradual improvement where Chaba finds a goal scorer (hopefully from within ranks) and the required balancto provide a platform for entertaining football. First all all, though, results matter - we have to appreciate that the team's confidence is very fagile after the last 2 years and Chaba seems to be good a reasonably effective job in restoring it.

 

 

We have exactly the same format as we have had since Chernenkov came in.

 

2 lightweight wingers (perm 2 from Miko, Driver, Kingston, Chesney), 1 lightweight winger playing in the 'hole (perm 1 from Kingston/Ksnavicius), 1 overworked striker running into the corners (this year Mole) and 2 overworked central midfield players in Karipidis and the player on who we depend to a ridiculous degree at the moment in Stewart. The formation of the team has not changed at all since Laszlo came in.

[Drylaw Hearts]

We have exactly the same format as we have had since Chernenkov came in.

 

2 lightweight wingers (perm 2 from Miko, Driver, Kingston, Chesney), 1 lightweight winger playing in the 'hole (perm 1 from Kingston/Ksnavicius), 1 overworked striker running into the corners (this year Mole) and 2 overworked central midfield players in Karipidis and the player on who we depend to a ridiculous degree at the moment in Stewart. The formation of the team has not changed at all since Laszlo came in.

 

Spot on.

[N User]

I'd disagree with that. Csaba seems to have played with a more flat four in midfield and then one "in the hole" and one up front a- 4-4-1-1.

 

The axis of gash were playing with 3 tighter central midfielders (with one pushing forward to try and be "in the hole") and two clear wingers who were more further forward than the central midfield.

On Saturday, Ksanavicius was much closer to Mole than he was the midfield. Whereas the axis of gash always had him closer to midfield

[Graham Thomson]

I Dont think you need a holding midfielder, and someone playing in the hole, its to defensive. we had massive gaps at times on the pitch against I C T, at times we had 5 at the back, then a big gap which Stewart did his best to fill, with little help from the useless and lazy Audrey. Miko also did his best, up and down the pitch, as for Kingston, if the Manager trully believes he is trying one leg, then that is a major worry, with him and Audrey, it was like playing with 9 men at times.

[Jambothroughandthrough]

Rangers 2007/2008 season - 4-5-1.

 

CIS Cup winners. Scottish Cup Winners. Lost SPL on last day of season. Uefa Cup final.

 

At the end of the day...if it secures three points and third spot I don't give a damn.

 

And...we will finish third this season!

[N User]

I Dont think you need a holding midfielder, and someone playing in the hole, its to defensive. we had massive gaps at times on the pitch against I C T, at times we had 5 at the back, then a big gap which Stewart did his best to fill, with little help from the useless and lazy Audrey. Miko also did his best, up and down the pitch, as for Kingston, if the Manager trully believes he is trying one leg, then that is a major worry, with him and Audrey, it was like playing with 9 men at times.

 

 

Normally in the SPL i'd agree but then I look at the form of Michael Stewart.

We don't have a natural attacking midfielder and Stewart is taking the baton for it. So Karipidis is doing all the dirty work for Stewart meaning he can do his attacking job better- it seems to be doing the trick.

[H.A.N.S]

Obviously you turned away when Nade came on??

 

That was as close as you are going to get to 4-4-2 and it was actually less effective having 2 strikers on the park.

 

Perhaps they are the wrong strikers to have but thats how it goes.

 

4-5-1 has achieved 12 points out of a possible 18.

 

Not to bad if you ask me.

 

I could see this result today coming a mile away. Against any side on par with us 4-5-1 will get destroyed. Derby, Aberdeen and Celtic games will be the same. I am not a football manager and I can see this is useless, why can't Vlad?

[H.A.N.S]

Rangers 2007/2008 season - 4-5-1.

 

CIS Cup winners. Scottish Cup Winners. Lost SPL on last day of season. Uefa Cup final.

 

At the end of the day...if it secures three points and third spot I don't give a damn.

 

And...we will finish third this season!

 

Think having the players with the ability to play it helped just a bit.