Will Rangers finally pay the penalty for sectarianism?

[djf]

"In general they are not a nice race at all. Nothing racist in it it is fact.

 

Obviously like everywhere it has it's good eggs but as a people I find them horrible"

 

Is that the post your referring to?

 

So the term, not nice is racist?

 

Get a grip of yourself!

 

No the branding of an entire people as horrible is however.

 

And its not a one off uncharacteristic statement. Nor are my objections to him as a person limited to his views on race.

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Couldn't care less. For years I've wished the fans of every other team in Scotland just completely ignored this crap and left the two of them to get on with their ridiculous, thuggish, juvenile bull***** all by themselves.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I see the T graph has removed the 26 comments it says there are to the story. I wonder if the bhest fans in the world and the destroyers of Manchester resorted to type?

[Seats]

Setting aside the "rights and wrongs" of this for a second, when was the last time anyone got home from a football match and burst into tears because the opposition fans "sang something nasty" to them?

 

Seriously, do you think hibs fans go home and cry because we call them gay?do we cry when they compare us to vegatables (I believe that is what a Yam is although I have never eaten one myself)? Has anyone gone home upset after celtic fans sang "ohh ah up the ra"? or when rangers fans sing rule brittania or hello hello or whatever?

 

The world has gone pc mad - time for people to grow up and get on with their lives and ignore what those nasty people in the other end are singing.

[Therapist]

Perhaps this will not be able to be brushed under the carpet.

 

There's nothing sectarian about it. As usual, the easily offended on here start frothing at the mouth and "shaking with rage" without actually understanding what it is they're getting het up about.

 

It's a song about the potato famine that affected Ireland over 150 years ago. Therefore if it is offensive - and there cannot be any normal individual who thinks it is - it's racist not sectarian.

[The Mighty Thor]

Can someone please explain to me what is sectarian about this song?

 

Celtic fans go to games carrying tri-colours singing the fields of athenry (sp) and ohh ahh up the raa and the Ranger's fans have basically said 'if you love them so much then fek off back there'

 

I couldn't agree more. I look forward to a half empty Ibrox too as they all feck off back to Northern Ireland, England and Holland.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

No the branding of an entire people as horrible is however.

 

And its not a one off uncharacteristic statement. Nor are my objections to him as a person limited to his views on race.

 

Re read the post!

 

Do stop now, your just making yourself look silly.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

I couldn't agree more. I look forward to a half empty Ibrox too as they all feck off back to Northern Ireland, England and Holland.

 

Did we not previously establish it would be the Netherlands?

[Nikoliunas]

Would mcGeady choose Eire if history repeated itself

 

[By the light]

Must admit I laughed out loud when I saw this was the lead story on Reporting Scotland yesterday evening. In the grand scheme of things what does it really matter?? The interviews with the Celtic Supporters representative was hilarious..."it made his stomach turn". Get a grip you fandan!

[portobellojambo1]

I could be daft here but the article states the complaint came from a 'Glasgow-born Celtic fan of Irish ancestry'. If thats the case what right does he have to complain to the Irish consulant - should he not have to contact the British one??

 

I think if said Celtic fan had logged the complaint with the British Consulate the response may well have been along the lines of -

 

Dear Sir,

 

If you have such a wonderful affinity with the Republic of Ireland, and do not like to hear anything said against it may one suggest that rather than retaining your place on the UK electoral roll you actually cease paying your council rent, assuming you are at this time paying it, and seek a council home somewhere within the Republic of Ireland. From that home you can then actively contribute financially to the well being of said country. It is a progressive country at this point in our time, with none of the problems of the past and I am sure they would love to have you as a citizen.

 

Yours,

 

The British Consulate

 

There again I think that is what the Rangers fans were telling him, but they used less words to do it.

[wibble]

It's a song about the potato famine that affected Ireland over 150 years ago.

 

 

Not too long before we can all chortle heartily about the Holocaust then?

 

How long before we can laugh at Mounbatten having blue yes? (one blew over there, one blew over here)

 

Didn't realise there was a time limit to seriously bad taste.

 

Have the courage to pin your facist colours to the mast mate. It's embarassing the way you make yourself out to be a normal thinking human being.

[Therapist]

Didn't realise there was a time limit to seriously bad taste.

 

Have the courage to pin your facist colours to the mast mate. It's embarassing the way you make yourself out to be a normal thinking human being.

 

Where did I say there was a time limit? To help educate people on here, I merely pointed out the timeline of the famine.

 

And while I'm in an educational mood, it's fascist.

 

I trust this post has been suitably instructional and helpful.

[wibble]

Where did I say there was a time limit? To help educate people on here, I merely pointed out the timeline of the famine.

 

And while I'm in an educational mood, it's fascist.

 

I trust this post has been suitably instructional and helpful.

 

 

Nothing better shows the ignorance of a poster than their delight in pointing out a spelling mistake. Well done.

 

You stated that having a laugh about the famine couldn't offend any normal person because it was 150 years ago.

 

So as I said, how long before we can have a laugh about the Holocaust?

 

You're right too about it being racist.

 

The behaviour of the OF in these regards doesn't bother me in any way. My gripe is with you and your mates sullying the name of HMFC with your radical right wing opinions and sympathising with all things Hunnish.

 

If you love them so much please go and join them on Follow Follow. The VAST MAJORITY of Hearts fans would gladly not have their club tainted by closet BNP sympathisers.

 

I asked you to show the courage to declare your political and racist viewpoint because you currently behave as if your views are mainstream and normal. They are not. You repeatedly present racist, xenophobic and sectarian viewpoints.

 

I would have more respect for you if you were to admit where your political viewpoint lies.

[Seats]

Nothing better shows the ignorance of a poster than their delight in pointing out a spelling mistake. Well done.

 

You stated that having a laugh about the famine couldn't offend any normal person because it was 150 years ago.

 

So as I said, how long before we can have a laugh about the Holocaust?

 

You're right too about it being racist.

 

The behaviour of the OF in these regards doesn't bother me in any way. My gripe is with you and your mates sullying the name of HMFC with your radical right wing opinions and sympathising with all things Hunnish.

 

If you love them so much please go and join them on Follow Follow. The VAST MAJORITY of Hearts fans would gladly not have their club tainted by closet BNP sympathisers.

 

I asked you to show the courage to declare your political and racist viewpoint because you currently behave as if your views are mainstream and normal. They are not. You repeatedly present racist, xenophobic and sectarian viewpoints.

 

I would have more respect for you if you were to admit where your political viewpoint lies.

 

 

The majority of Hearts fans have political views of one sort or another. For you to say that supporters of a particular party are not welcome is ludicrous - particularly if they are closet supporters. As far as I am concerned, Hearts is a football team with nothing to do with politics or religion. However, I bet every fan has a view on politics or religion - so who are you to say that one particular viewpoint is not welcome?

[Therapist]

You repeatedly present racist, xenophobic and sectarian viewpoints.

 

 

Nonsense. If I did, I would have been banned from here long before now.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

 

Nonsense. If I did, I would have been banned from here long before now.

 

If its so regular im sure he will have no problem presenting many, many posts to back up his claims. Otherwise id hope action was taken, yet another poster throwing around unfounded accusations on here.

[Boab Mugabe]

Classic victim card manipulation from the sellik minded whilst they have carte blanche to sing as hateful stuff as they like about the very country they play their football in. "Ooh aah up the RA" was audible at the game on Saturday yet that gets zero coverage.

 

The fhlump who was on the telly the other day saying "it turns my stomach" was beyond a joke. I'd be willing to bet he's about 5th or 6th generation Irish at best yet would cling to that rather tenuous link ahead of a country he lives in. Someone should send him a message detailing Ryanair's very cheap flight options to Ireland, which he would no doubt forward to the Irish consul.

 

Are they all 4 year olds? "Mummy, he called me a bad name..."

 

vile, vindictive, melodramatic, two-faced, smarmy, pious collection of ambulance chasers.

[Seymour M Hersh]

There's nothing sectarian about it. As usual, the easily offended on here start frothing at the mouth and "shaking with rage" without actually understanding what it is they're getting het up about.

 

It's a song about the potato famine that affected Ireland over 150 years ago. Therefore if it is offensive - and there cannot be any normal individual who thinks it is - it's racist not sectarian.

 

What constitutes sectarian in your eyes? `you seem to be the epitome of being easily offended if the sellik morons sing something offensive (which they frequently do and I despise them for it) but appear to bend over backwards to apologise for rankgers (FC). Why is this?

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

All celtic fans are irish

 

FACT

 

(or at least thats what they would have you believe)

 

Also, anti-Celtic = anti-Catholic.

 

FACT.

 

(Or at least etc...)

[stevie]

I find it hard to understand how a group of people aka celtic fans have the bloody nerve to try to appear holier than thou after all of the bile and bigotry they have subjected scotland to for over 130 years.

Their support of terrorists should have seen them kicked out of scotland years ago,i for one would love to see the back of them all.

[wibble]

The majority of Hearts fans have political views of one sort or another. For you to say that supporters of a particular party are not welcome is ludicrous - particularly if they are closet supporters. As far as I am concerned, Hearts is a football team with nothing to do with politics or religion. However, I bet every fan has a view on politics or religion - so who are you to say that one particular viewpoint is not welcome?

 

We all have political viewpoints, but Therapist and S.U.S.S. are clearly BNP minded but refuse to declare it.

 

I have stated that I would have some respect for them if they were to come clean.

 

What I don't like is the way they spout their bile (IMO) whilst pretending to be middle of the road "everyday" Hearts fans.

 

It's the subversive behaviour of these 2 posters that turns my stomach. Whenever they are accused of being fascists they deny it, but it is plain to see what they are - others on this board have spotted it long before I brought it up.

 

My objection is that their behaviour and viewpoints justifies the label mini-huns that gets attached to Hearts.

 

I'd prefer that these mini-huns grew up and became proper huns. Follow Follow needs them.

[chester copperpot]

Until we're told by the SFA/SPL what's acceptable and what is not acceptable, then we cannot judge anyone else.

 

I heard a very decent Celtic fan (I know I know) on the radio last night saying something regarding the situation.

 

He said that its thin skinned people who have blown the atmosphere in the SPL. Fair enough Rangers sang about going home to Ireland, as the famine was over. But there's worse songs sung by Celtic on a regular basis (The queen getting raped was one of them, fair play to the Celtic fan for pointing it out).

 

We need some sort of directive what is acceptable or not. Until then, then we have to just accept, it aint getting punished.

 

SPL rotten to the core, as is the SFA.

[269miles]

There's nothing sectarian about it. As usual, the easily offended on here start frothing at the mouth and "shaking with rage" without actually understanding what it is they're getting het up about.

 

It's a song about the potato famine that affected Ireland over 150 years ago. Therefore if it is offensive - and there cannot be any normal individual who thinks it is - it's racist not sectarian.

 

Really ?

 

I commend to you 'The Star of The Sea' by Joseph O'Connor.

 

Read that and then tell me that that song isn't offensive.

 

PS If you do read the book I think you'll find there were 14 famines : it was the final one that wiped them out.

 

 

PPS Then again, I doubt you will.

[Rick Grimes]

short answer to the OP.

 

no.

 

longer answer.

 

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

[shaun.lawson]

Both sets of fans have among their number a large proportion of knuckle-headed, easily offended, hypocritical ****. However, this particular complaint relates to a chant by Rangers fans which is offensive, and should be stamped out.

 

I cringe when I read posts on here referring to Celtic supporters or Celtic Football Club as "tattie munchers". It's racist, and utterly objectionable to ridicule a tragedy, however long ago it might have been. When Liverpool or Leeds fans sing about the Munich disaster, it makes me sick. When Liverpool's rivals sing about Hillsborough, I find it disgusting and incomprehensible. When supporters make hissing noises invoking the gas chambers if Tottenham are in town, it is quite despicable. One poster on here some weeks ago thought it clever to make fun of the Ibrox Disaster: this, too, turned my stomach.

 

At most British grounds, racism has, hallelujah, pretty much been stamped out. This hasn't affected atmospheres, nor the passion of football supports throughout the country. Pointing out that it is vile and beyond the pale to mock genuine human tragedy in the name of 'banter' is neither political correctness gone mad nor the opinion of some lily-livered handwringer: the United Kingdom is a civilised nation, and all its citizens should be expected to behave in a civilised way with respect for others, whether at a football ground or not.

[wibble]

Until we're told by the SFA/SPL what's acceptable and what is not acceptable, then we cannot judge anyone else.

 

Common human decency tells you that these are not subjects for ridicule. If you look to the SFA/SPL for guidance in your life you are doing something wrong.

 

As Sean demonstrates with lots of examples there are plenty of subjects that shouldn't be touched. Those that defend the singing of songs on any of those subjects (the famine included) need to have a look at themselves and ask if they are living in the 2000's or the early 1900's.

[Jambomo]

Until we're told by the SFA/SPL what's acceptable and what is not acceptable, then we cannot judge anyone else.

 

I heard a very decent Celtic fan (I know I know) on the radio last night saying something regarding the situation.

 

He said that its thin skinned people who have blown the atmosphere in the SPL. Fair enough Rangers sang about going home to Ireland, as the famine was over. But there's worse songs sung by Celtic on a regular basis (The queen getting raped was one of them, fair play to the Celtic fan for pointing it out).

 

We need some sort of directive what is acceptable or not. Until then, then we have to just accept, it aint getting punished.

 

SPL rotten to the core, as is the SFA.

 

Do you honestly need the SFA to tell you what is and isn't right or wrong? It would be better for them to come out and say what is/isn't acceptable for the idiots who have no concept of this but surely most people have a good idea without needing to be told.

 

I find it funny that these days it seems being a football fan seems to be more about who can sing the most offensive song and wind up your rivals rather than actually supporting your team. I watched the UEFA cup final and the Rangers fans appeared to be as quiet as the grave, save a few renditions of God save the Queen. Maybe, instead of singing and cheering about the death and destruction of the rival fans they should get back to singing about their own team.

[By the light]

Both sets of fans have among their number a large proportion of knuckle-headed, easily offended, hypocritical ****. However, this particular complaint relates to a chant by Rangers fans which is offensive, and should be stamped out.

 

I cringe when I read posts on here referring to Celtic supporters or Celtic Football Club as "tattie munchers". It's racist, and utterly objectionable to ridicule a tragedy, however long ago it might have been. When Liverpool or Leeds fans sing about the Munich disaster, it makes me sick. When Liverpool's rivals sing about Hillsborough, I find it disgusting and incomprehensible. When supporters make hissing noises invoking the gas chambers if Tottenham are in town, it is quite despicable. One poster on here some weeks ago thought it clever to make fun of the Ibrox Disaster: this, too, turned my stomach.

 

At most British grounds, racism has, hallelujah, pretty much been stamped out. This hasn't affected atmospheres, nor the passion of football supports throughout the country. Pointing out that it is vile and beyond the pale to mock genuine human tragedy in the name of 'banter' is neither political correctness gone mad nor the opinion of some lily-livered handwringer: the United Kingdom is a civilised nation, and all its citizens should be expected to behave in a civilised way with respect for others, whether at a football ground or not.

 

Two different arguments going on on this thread....

 

1) Is the song acceptable? - I would imagine 99% of people on here would agree that the song is not acceptable in this day and age

 

2) Do Celtic have the right to make such a public outcry bearing in mind their previous for singing equally choice songs? - again I feel the majority on here think that they don't (myself included), hence the apparent "support" for the song and/or the lack of contempt for it.

 

As many have said, until something is done about it, the petty one upmanship of the Old Firm will continue to blight Scottish Football for years to come.

[I P Knightley]

We all have political viewpoints, but Therapist and S.U.S.S. are clearly BNP minded but refuse to declare it.

 

I have stated that I would have some respect for them if they were to come clean.

 

What I don't like is the way they spout their bile (IMO) whilst pretending to be middle of the road "everyday" Hearts fans.

 

It's the subversive behaviour of these 2 posters that turns my stomach. Whenever they are accused of being fascists they deny it, but it is plain to see what they are - others on this board have spotted it long before I brought it up.

 

My objection is that their behaviour and viewpoints justifies the label mini-huns that gets attached to Hearts.

 

I'd prefer that these mini-huns grew up and became proper huns. Follow Follow needs them.

 

"Are you now, or have you ever been, a card carrying member of the BNP?"

 

As much as it pains me to interject on behalf of two posters who can clearly hold their own in online discussions, I don't see the relevance of your line of questioning/badgering to the discussion in question.

 

By the Light has summed it the issues well. Do we think the Celtic fans have been petty/hypocritical in approaching the Irish Government? Do we think the chant/song is offensive/sectarian?

 

Political allegiance doesn't matter although, in some cases, posters will betray more about their political views than others. But that's not the discussion, is it?

 

Personally, I don't see that failure to be offended by the song marks someone out as a fascist. I've heard worse and (as Shaun listed) more vile and directly offensive chants and actions. I really enjoy Frankie Boyle who is anything but inoffensive. Does that make me a bad person?

 

I don't think the song directly laughs at the victims of the Famine but takes a pop at the Irish-ness of Celtic and their own chants.

 

Maybe it's just my sophisticated humour that allows me to cope with this.

 

Perhaps perversely, I find the "Oh, the Hibees are gay!" chant offensive. Please find a political allegiance for me.

[Boris]

Actually, I'm surprised at those staunch Unionists singing a song about the potato famine in what was a part of the United Kingdom at the time.

 

Shame on them.

[4marsbars]

The majority of Hearts fans have political views of one sort or another. For you to say that supporters of a particular party are not welcome is ludicrous - particularly if they are closet supporters. As far as I am concerned, Hearts is a football team with nothing to do with politics or religion. However, I bet every fan has a view on politics or religion - so who are you to say that one particular viewpoint is not welcome?

 

 

Since the only party he mentioned as being unwelcome was the BNP, I think you'll find that most Hearts fans would agree with that view.

 

There's nothing "ludicrous" about that at all. Neo-Nazis are not welcome anywhere, whether or not they are out of the closet.

 

Although your post seems to imply it, you surely did not mean to suggest that BNP supporters would we welcome, did you?

 

I have no knowledge of how active the BNP are in Edinburgh right now but, in the past, I think they tried to recruit from supporters of football teams they (wrongly) considered to be sympathetic to their views, including Hearts.

[Colonel Kurtz]

Since the only party he mentioned as being unwelcome was the BNP, I think you'll find that most Hearts fans would agree with that view.

 

There's nothing "ludicrous" about that at all. Neo-Nazis are not welcome anywhere, whether or not they are out of the closet.

 

Although your post seems to imply it, you surely did not mean to suggest that BNP supporters would we welcome, did you?

 

I have no knowledge of how active the BNP are in Edinburgh right now but, in the past, I think they tried to recruit from supporters of football teams they (wrongly) considered to be sympathetic to their views, including Hearts.

 

We allow supporters of The Tories and Labour on here.

Both Parties have ben guilty of war crimes,The Sinking of the Belgrano and The illegal war in Iraq

[Seymour M Hersh]

We allow supporters of The Tories and Labour on here.

Both Parties have ben guilty of war crimes,The Sinking of the Belgrano and The illegal war in Iraq

 

Did your pal the pieman tell you to say that?

[Therapist]

Since the only party he mentioned as being unwelcome was the BNP

 

The BNP is a legitimate political party. That's why they are allowed PPBs etc. Consequently, there is no reason why BNP supporters/voters should be unwelcome on here.

 

Incidentally, the BNP football rectruitment story was a load of tabloid guff.

 

And before anyone starts this post is a statement of fact and is not intended to be read as me being for or against the BNP.

[Guest jambomickey]

what's this crap got to do with football?

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

"

I don't think the song directly laughs at the victims of the Famine but takes a pop at the Irish-ness of Celtic and their own chants.

 

 

That's my take on it too, unfortunately a lot of Celtic fans simply cannot differentiate between being anti-Celtic and being anti-Catholic.

 

Even more unfortunately, this attitude has spilled over into some HMFC supporters, and those of other clubs.

[marshallschunkychicken]

what's this crap got to do with football?

 

The entire situation summed up in eight small words.

[redm]

The BNP is a legitimate political party. That's why they are allowed PPBs etc. Consequently, there is no reason why BNP supporters/voters should be unwelcome on here.

 

Incidentally, the BNP football rectruitment story was a load of tabloid guff.

 

And before anyone starts this post is a statement of fact and is not intended to be read as me being for or against the BNP.

 

I don't think I read the tabloid guff you mention, but I can assure you that the BNP do recruit amongst the fans of at least one SPL club.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

I don't think I read the tabloid guff you mention, but I can assure you that the BNP do recruit amongst the fans of at least one SPL club.

 

When did you join?

[Therapist]

I can assure you that the BNP do recruit amongst the fans of at least one SPL club.

 

Given that they have PPBs, I think that, technically, they are recruiting from all Scottish clubs.

[shaun.lawson]

The BNP is a legitimate political party. That's why they are allowed PPBs etc. Consequently, there is no reason why BNP supporters/voters should be unwelcome on here.

 

Incidentally, the BNP football rectruitment story was a load of tabloid guff.

 

And before anyone starts this post is a statement of fact and is not intended to be read as me being for or against the BNP.

 

Curiously enough, I agree. Last year, the Oxford Union attracted widespread furore by inviting nutcase historian David Irving and BNP chief pitbull Nick Griffin to speak. Outside, protests became more and more ugly, with people trying to storm the building and even chanting that the Union President should be killed.

 

All of which was an utter embarrassment - because it completely overshadowed the reason why these two lowlifes had been invited in the first place. In a democracy, it is up to all of us to expose the gibberish peddled by extremists - not by driving them underground, but by engaging with them and defeating them in argument. Refusing to do so, or indeed, trying to ban people from internet fora just because of their political opinions, is actually a sign of chronic lack of confidence in our values and essential decency.

 

Note: this would not apply if BNP members attempted to incite racial hatred. For example, the vile far right website, 'Redwatch', which includes photos, work details, addresses and phone numbers of individuals on the left, and incites its readers to attack them, should (if only it were possible) be closed down. But if people just hold ridiculous views, the only hope we have of marginalising them is through debate, and even tolerance to some degree: otherwise, we give them exactly what they want.

[jamcow1]

I would just like to say I have alsoheard some severely racist insults at games when we play THOSE from L**TH. Racism and sectarians should be banned from the games, no matter what teams are playing.

[IMA MAROON]

At the end of the day the Rangers support are only asking a question.

 

The famine is over, why don't you go home?

 

This is not an order. They are just asking.

[redm]

When did you join?

 

Loose lips sink ships, Suss. Jeezo.

 

[redm]

Given that they have PPBs, I think that, technically, they are recruiting from all Scottish clubs.

 

PPBs....umm...party political broadcasts?

 

As in those we all see on telly?

[shaun.lawson]

Loose lips sink ships, Suss. Jeezo.

 

 

Did someone mention loose lips?

 

[djf]

Curiously enough, I agree. Last year, the Oxford Union attracted widespread furore by inviting nutcase historian David Irving and BNP chief pitbull Nick Griffin to speak. Outside, protests became more and more ugly, with people trying to storm the building and even chanting that the Union President should be killed.

 

All of which was an utter embarrassment - because it completely overshadowed the reason why these two lowlifes had been invited in the first place. In a democracy, it is up to all of us to expose the gibberish peddled by extremists - not by driving them underground, but by engaging with them and defeating them in argument. Refusing to do so, or indeed, trying to ban people from internet fora just because of their political opinions, is actually a sign of chronic lack of confidence in our values and essential decency.

 

Note: this would not apply if BNP members attempted to incite racial hatred. For example, the vile far right website, 'Redwatch', which includes photos, work details, addresses and phone numbers of individuals on the left, and incites its readers to attack them, should (if only it were possible) be closed down. But if people just hold ridiculous views, the only hope we have of marginalising them is through debate, and even tolerance to some degree: otherwise, we give them exactly what they want.

 

Whilst I agree with what you say Shawn, perhaps the reason many were angry with the decision to invite those two persons was as much to do with giving them an undeserved credible forum to speak on as it was with attempts to silence them.

 

If it wasn't for Griffin's controversial policies and Irving's holocaust denials neither would have been offered the chance to speak and it seemed a decision more made on attracting publicity than it did on the merits of the speakers.

[shaun.lawson]

Whilst I agree with what you say Shawn, perhaps the reason many were angry with the decision to invite those two persons was as much to do with giving them an undeserved credible forum to speak on as it was with attempts to silence them.

 

If it wasn't for Griffin's controversial policies and Irving's holocaust denials neither would have been offered the chance to speak and it seemed a decision more made on attracting publicity than it did on the merits of the speakers.

 

A forum to speak at, where they could be - and Irving most certainly was - utterly ridiculed. In terms of attracting publicity: well, sure. But frankly, if you can't have these sort of debates at university (where anything and everything can be challenged, and nothing is sacrosanct: hence where the word comes from), where can you?

[4marsbars]

The BNP is a legitimate political party. That's why they are allowed PPBs etc. Consequently, there is no reason why BNP supporters/voters should be unwelcome on here.

.

 

I believe in freedom of speech and of association. The BNP has a right to exist. But to say that BNP supporters would not be "unwelcome" is a competely different thing altogether. They would be completely unwelcome, in my opinion. I don't see much sign of them having a presence here anyway, for what it's worth.

 

And before anyone starts this post is a statement of fact and is not intended to be read as me being for or against the BNP.

 

 

We could always invite you to say that you are, in fact, against the BNP, just to be perfectly clear. 99.9% of the population would find it easy to say that.

 

Another poster suggested that you maybe have BNP sympathies, which surprised me because I had always assumed that your sympathies are more of the "wind up" variety. And that's still what I think.