Will Rangers finally pay the penalty for sectarianism?

[Seymour M Hersh]

Perhaps this will not be able to be brushed under the carpet.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/scottishpremier/rangers/2965368/New-sectarian-chants-blow-for-Rangers---Football.html

[Nucky Thompson]

Perhaps this will not be able to be brushed under the carpet.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/scottishpremier/rangers/2965368/New-sectarian-chants-blow-for-Rangers---Football.html

There was a mega thread on the subject last night that seems to have disappeared this morning.

[Seymour M Hersh]

There was a mega thread on the subject last night that seems to have disappeared this morning.

 

Ah, didn't see that. Oh well.

[Deevers]

There is something quite ironic about a Celtic fan complaining about offensive songs or chants. Strange how the deeply pious on both sides of the Glasgow divide seem to be affected by selective deafness. A pox on both of them.

[adayinmay]

There was a mega thread on the subject last night that seems to have disappeared this morning.

 

It was locked and closed as I assume the usual mud slinging started.

 

This complaint by the Irish Government is interesting. UEFA and SFA have repeatedly said that their new legislation regarding racist and secterian abuse will be implemented but have so far shown the balls of a mouse.

Now that the Scottish Government has been dragged into the debate it will be interesting to see how the SFA will avoid the issue again.

Sadly, I think they will by just covering their ears and ignoring any calls for punishment.

How can they punish the very clubs that run them?

[bighusref]

No chance.

 

In European terms, there are teams/countries that are untouchable and will get away with a small, non-descript punishment for nonsense ie Spain and Spanish club teams get away with racism, as do the Italians, who also get away with crowd violence.

 

In Scottish terms, there are teams that are untouchable and will get away with small, non-descript punishment for nonsense and those teams are R@ng*rs and C*lt!c.

 

POSSIBLY a small fine, POSSIBLY a rap on the knuckles, nothing more.

[The Old Tolbooth]

There is something quite ironic about a Celtic fan complaining about offensive songs or chants. Strange how the deeply pious on both sides of the Glasgow divide seem to be affected by selective deafness. A pox on both of them.

 

Absolutely 100% correct!

 

Both as bad as each other and for one side to complain about the other is just incredible.

[Seats]

Hoy admin, where's the original thread gone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My first "successful" thread ever and admin bin it after a couple of hours

[I P Knightley]

In among the petty mud-slinging on the closed thread there were a few valid points.

 

(1) the question of whether the song was actually sectarian or just a bit of a pi55-take. No doubt, it was offensive to many but which football chants aren't? It didn't glorify the sectarian violence of Northern Ireland so some were putting it in the same category as, say, our song saying that all Hibees are gay.

 

(2) Whether, if it was agreed that the song was outside acceptable boundaries, the GFA would get off their arses to do anything serious about it. Given the reported hearing of pro-IRA chants at Celtic games, it seems, sadly, that they wouldn't?

 

(3) Just how childish would you have to be to hear a song in Scotland, however offensive, turn a deaf ear to the equally offensive chants of your own supporters and run snitching to the Irish government, FFS? (I'll get ma Da tae batter your Da)

 

(4) If you were in government, would you really have no more pressing issues than the apparent mischief-making in bringing this to your attention?

 

 

All these, it appears to me, valid discussion points but, as the Mod put it, a few people went a little too far.

 

My take:

 

(1) I've heard worse songs and think that the 'outrage' about the Sloop John B one is a trifle OTT.

(2) We all know the answer to this. At best the SFA are toothless at worst... it must be cosy sitting in those pockets

(3) Pathetic. If Boris Johnson thinks that Liverpool wallows in its 'victim status', I'd love to hear his thoughts on the OF supporters!

(4) A difficult one. The correct answer would have been, "away and grow up - take it up with the authorities in the country it happened" but politicians can't do that sort of thing.

[happyjam]

Regarding the guys complaint, he's a a bit like a child *** offender stating a child killer is a bad person.

 

Factually correct, but .....

[colinmaroon]

No!!!

 

 

 

 

 

................

[Jam Tarts 1874]

I am sure that the Irish Government would do nothing if I wrote to them to complain about Celtic fans chanting "oh ah up the RA" at Tynecastle. Both the old firm are a cancer but no doubt the SFA and the clubs concerned will just make the usual noises but ultimately do nothing.

 

It is worth noting that I have just heard the story mentioned on national BBC radio 5 live.

[south morocco]

Perhaps this will not be able to be brushed under the carpet.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/scottishpremier/rangers/2965368/New-sectarian-chants-blow-for-Rangers---Football.html

 

looks like this episode already has been, How long will it take to punish these muppets i wonder? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/6962683.stm

[Bomber Harris]

Am i right in saying that the Celtic Supporters Association wrote to The First Minister requesting a more heavily policed presence within the area of Tynecastle for their "next" (at the time/possibly two years ago when the ticket allocation was reduced) visit due to the unfriendly, aggressive, racist behaviour from the Hearts fans ?

 

Obviously everyone knows the relationship/rivalry between the two sets of fans has soured as the years have went on due to events ON the field but OFF the field they're behaviour HAS made certain Hearts fans behave in this manner due to they're unfriendly, sometimes aggresive, racist and sectarian behaviour, pots, pans, kettles and the colour black comes to mind but a lot of fans out there will cry "two wrongs don't make a right" but surely the hooped followers have to get they're own house in order first before they start crying to the Men In Charge !

 

They can call you a Protestant/Orange/Masonic/Loyalist Ba****d but the second you respond in a similar manner they don't like it.

 

FEK 'EM:mad:

[scots civil war]

i see its that **** roddy forsyth whos written the piece

 

yet again the knuckledragger solely focuses his profession on wedgieland

 

 

and tarnishes the rest of the nation

[Bomber Harris]

looks like this episode already has been, How long will it take to punish these muppets i wonder? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/r/rangers/6962683.stm

 

Without sounding like i'm backing Rangers on this one i think you should take a step back and look at the bigger picture.....

 

A celtic fan is complaing about a song Rangers fans were singing ?????:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Colonel Kurtz]

I have already said that this an organised and coordinated attack, the timing of Mcconnels article in The catholic Confessor or whatever the publication was called is not co-oncidental.

New labour from the Coatbridge powerbase are the catholic church at prayer.

and will do as they are bid ,their reaction and presure put on the SFA led to Hearts being set up in the Popes silence debacle.

I seem to recall Irish diplomats also having meetings with the Germans during the wars,bunch of rogues .

Nobody also seems to mention that alot of resentment was caused by Irish immigrants who had earned a living in Scotland returning home to avoid conscription and returning to Scotland after the war.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Hoy admin, where's the original thread gone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

My first "successful" thread ever and admin bin it after a couple of hours

 

Unfortunately people don't know how to behave in debates like this mate, and it almost always ends in a thread which should have been a reasonable discussion being closed.

[jambovambo]

My take :

 

I don't think it was sectarian, only insulting ...

 

I loved how the BBC said "some Rangers fans - there must have been thousands of them to make that noise ...

 

What about the big karaoke-style words on the screen ? ... all that was needed was a bouncing ball thingie ...

 

In days gone by, this would have passed uncommented upon; in an ideal world it should be a storm in a tea-cup; these days, plenty politicos (McConnell included) will jump upon it.

 

Pffft.

 

Who cares?

[south morocco]

Without sounding like i'm backing Rangers on this one i think you should take a step back and look at the bigger picture.....

 

A celtic fan is complaing about a song Rangers fans were singing ?????:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

I know where you're coming from regarding the hypocrisy but the bigger picture indicates that the OF are both riddled in sectarian bigotry and the SPL do nothing about it ,my example was to highlight the issue that even with concrete evidence they still dont act! Thats all mate!

[Robertson9]

What got me the most was the Sellick fan on the news last night from a celtic magazine said "it turns my stomach!!!!!!!"

 

And of course singing the disgusting filth that those low life **** bags sing is perfectly ok right enough, Supporting and glorifying the *******s who killed British troops!

 

They should kick the ****ers out the league = problem solved

[kennygarland1]

No chance.

 

In European terms, there are teams/countries that are untouchable and will get away with a small, non-descript punishment for nonsense ie Spain and Spanish club teams get away with racism, as do the Italians, who also get away with crowd violence.

 

In Scottish terms, there are teams that are untouchable and will get away with small, non-descript punishment for nonsense and those teams are R@ng*rs and C*lt!c.

 

POSSIBLY a small fine, POSSIBLY a rap on the knuckles, nothing more.

 

I dont see why Rangers should be docked points or fined due to the pomposity of some Celtic supporters.Celtic supporters seem to think they are Irish and do nothing but sing Irish songs which is encouraged by their own club.They got where they are on the back of sectarianism and to now cry foul at their sectarian brethren is a joke.Let them sing what they want and lets all not pretend we are offended by any of it.It is,has,and always will be their shame.

[Brian Whittaker's Tache]

In the overall scheme of things

 

 

To get two goverments involved is a bit OTT

 

I'd like to think my MP's had something better to do like making sure hospitals were clean and old people were warm in the houses

[I P Knightley]

Without sounding like i'm backing Rangers on this one i think you should take a step back and look at the bigger picture.....

 

A celtic fan is complaing about a song Rangers fans were singing ?????:rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Agreed.

 

There's no way I could be accused of any sympathy towards Rangers what with me being RC (not arsey, R.C.) and with Irish ancestry.

 

This ain't sectarianism going on; it's school playground pettiness.

[andrew]

Can someone please explain to me what is sectarian about this song?

 

Celtic fans go to games carrying tri-colours singing the fields of athenry (sp) and ohh ahh up the raa and the Ranger's fans have basically said 'if you love them so much then fek off back there'

[redm]

I think they're ridiculous hypocrites for getting themselves up in arms about it but then, any opportunity to get your rivals in trouble is always going to be warmly embraced. They're both just pustulent boils on the bum of Scotland.

 

The good thing is that if this matter is discussed by those mentioned in the article, and if it does continue to get this sort of press, then Celtic fans have raised awareness of a problem in which they are equally guilty parties. It just means that next time they do something similar, they're also more likely to crop up in these discussions.

 

At least it's getting publicity rather than being completely swept under the carpet. The more people that notice, the more pressure is on the clubs to do something about it.

[Jambof3tornado]

I think if rangers do pay the penalty and get fined smacked wrist etc it will be outrageous given that for years we have had to put up with sectarian rubbish from both sides of the old firm. Bet celtic are the best behaved fans in europe again coz they know they are being watched.

 

Something should be done because its a slur on scottish football,just as the racist element in spain is a slur on the spanish.

 

 

Standbye Hearts to be the 1st team to be docked points after the 1st game Vs Hibs in a few weeks time!!!

[Rods]

some people cant take a joke

 

Especially those look at me I am so oppressed bunch of Fhanny at parkhead.

[I P Knightley]

Can someone please explain to me what is sectarian about this song?

 

Celtic fans go to games carrying tri-colours singing the fields of athenry (sp) and ohh ahh up the raa and the Ranger's fans have basically said 'if you love them so much then fek off back there'

 

I'm inclined to agree with you.

 

There's a big difference between the two songs/chants you mention. The former is clearly an ignorant celebration of sectarian violence and gangstering. The latter is just a harmless ditty that reflects & celebrates the club's heritage (unless, unbeknownst to me, they've changed the lyric).

 

What the Rangers have done is to mirror the sentiments of the latter song (Ireland's a lovely place but it's a helluva difficult place to live) & the heritage with typical football crowd humour. Of course it's unpleasant but sectarian (in the generally accepted sense of the word)?

 

If anything, it could be interpreted as 'racist' being anti-Irish and that should, of course, land them in hot water.

 

 

Out of interest, are there any Celtic or Rangers songs which simply refer to the football club, in the same way that the Hearts Song is just about the Hearts playing football?

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Unfortunately people don't know how to behave in debates like this mate, and it almost always ends in a thread which should have been a reasonable discussion being closed.

 

Exactly once some in the PC brigade understand it is unacceptable to throw unfounded accusations around on this board perhaps debate will win.

 

with regards the possible trouble Rangers could be in, what an absolute joke, a complaint from some **** who probably is more than happy to blast out party tunes about the IRA. Fact is that knob has probably never been to Ireland and would struggle to find it on a map.

[wibble]

I have a feeling that this Celtic supporter may have opened a can of worms he might wish he'd left closed.

 

FIFA and UEFA will have to take notice of this now that it's been raised at an inter-government level.

 

There may well be high prices paid by both of the bigot brothers in the not too distant future.

 

I think the SFA have maintained control as previously it was just an internal affair. It has moved beyond this now and the EU will want to see resolution I would imagine.

 

Bring it on. The OF bring shame on Scotland.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

I think they're ridiculous hypocrites for getting themselves up in arms about it but then, any opportunity to get your rivals in trouble is always going to be warmly embraced. They're both just pustulent boils on the bum of Scotland.

 

The good thing is that if this matter is discussed by those mentioned in the article, and if it does continue to get this sort of press, then Celtic fans have raised awareness of a problem in which they are equally guilty parties. It just means that next time they do something similar, they're also more likely to crop up in these discussions.

 

At least it's getting publicity rather than being completely swept under the carpet. The more people that notice, the more pressure is on the clubs to do something about it.

 

Do you honestly believe that when they are at Tynie and start their OooH Ah Up the Ra" ****e that it will be highlighted anywhere in the media?

 

Pressure to do something, are you having a laugh? they both have their token campaigns and that is what they will remain as the money they generate is vast.

[redm]

Do you honestly believe that when they are at Tynie and start their OooH Ah Up the Ra" ****e that it will be highlighted anywhere in the media?

 

Pressure to do something, are you having a laugh? they both have their token campaigns and that is what they will remain as the money they generate is vast.

 

Well, not to that extent. But we haven't seen much about Rangers stuff either in that respect. Local media won't run with any of these tales until they really have to (maybe not at all) but when it's attracting the attentions of people at government/embassy level then the nationals may well go with it.

 

As Melbourne Jambo said, they've shot themselves in the foot a wee bit. Can open, worms everywhere with any luck.

 

It's not going to be the big expose of the the OF that is needed, but it's a start. It's just good to see it being written about at all. Pressure would eventually have an effect on their behaviour....they'll never be angels but even a wee improvement would be good.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Well, not to that extent. But we haven't seen much about Rangers stuff either in that respect. Local media won't run with any of these tales until they really have to (maybe not at all) but when it's attracting the attentions of people at government/embassy level then the nationals may well go with it.

 

As Melbourne Jambo said, they've shot themselves in the foot a wee bit. Can open, worms everywhere with any luck.

 

It's not going to be the big expose of the the OF that is needed, but it's a start. It's just good to see it being written about at all. Pressure would eventually have an effect on their behaviour....they'll never be angels but even a wee improvement would be good.

 

As you say, its a start, sadly i have no faith in the media nor the government to actually do anything.

[269miles]

Do you honestly believe that when they are at Tynie and start their OooH Ah Up the Ra" ****e that it will be highlighted anywhere in the media?

Pressure to do something, are you having a laugh? they both have their token campaigns and that is what they will remain as the money they generate is vast.

 

To Scotland's shame , no. As has been discussed on here ad nauseum , the Glasgow media are terrified (apart from Spiers) to say anything about the disgusting ditties being sung by the great fans from Hunbrox and the Tattiedome (will this get me into trouble with the Irish govt ).

Frankly I think the behviour of the Best Fans in The World is sanctimonious and hyppcritical given their liking for rebel songs etc. Notwithstanding that , the song in question is disgusting and intended to be offensive but no one in the Scottish media has felt the need to condemn it : which says it all really.

 

Now we have Sellick fans running to the Irish embassy to complain.

You couldn't make this up.

[djf]

Exactly once some in the PC brigade understand it is unacceptable to throw unfounded accusations around on this board perhaps debate will win.

 

with regards the possible trouble Rangers could be in, what an absolute joke, a complaint from some **** who probably is more than happy to blast out party tunes about the IRA. Fact is that knob has probably never been to Ireland and would struggle to find it on a map.

 

Yeah. Right.

[The People's Chimp]

I have a feeling that this Celtic supporter may have opened a can of worms he might wish he'd left closed.

 

FIFA and UEFA will have to take notice of this now that it's been raised at an inter-government level.

 

There may well be high prices paid by both of the bigot brothers in the not too distant future.

 

I think the SFA have maintained control as previously it was just an internal affair. It has moved beyond this now and the EU will want to see resolution I would imagine.

 

Bring it on. The OF bring shame on Scotland.

UEFA haven't been too arsed about doing anything in spain when their fans indulge in yet more racist abuse of players.

 

UEFA need to get lots of houses in order and this song should be nowehere near the top of anyone's list.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Yeah. Right.

 

Post your proof he is what you accused him of then.

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

UEFA haven't been too arsed about doing anything in spain when their fans indulge in yet more racist abuse of players.

 

UEFA need to get lots of houses in order and this song should be nowehere near the top of anyone's list.

 

An excellent point, for how may years have we heard about racial abuse of players (club and international) and what happens? nothing much.

 

Spanish coach calls Henry some rather choice names, wrist slap and small fine.

[djf]

Post your proof he is what you accused him of then.

 

Without subjecting myself to reading through his nonsense for a second time most recently I recall a thread where he described an entire nation of people as not very nice. Not the most critical of words but entirely in line with his thoughts on numerous other threads.

 

I stand by what I said fully.

 

I think he is either morally disgusting or an incredibly stupid attention seeker.

 

If that makes me PC then I fully accept the label.

[paulah]

I'm glad this has been brought up as the SFA said they were going to stamp it out altogether,which they quite clearly have'nt,so by doing so maybe instead of burying their head in the sand they might have to do something drastic like dock points

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Without subjecting myself to reading through his nonsense for a second time most recently I recall a thread where he described an entire nation of people as not very nice. Not the most critical of words but entirely in line with his thoughts on numerous other threads.

 

I stand by what I said fully.

 

I think he is either morally disgusting or an incredibly stupid attention seeker.

 

If that makes me PC then I fully accept the label.

 

"In general they are not a nice race at all. Nothing racist in it it is fact.

 

Obviously like everywhere it has it's good eggs but as a people I find them horrible"

 

Is that the post your referring to?

 

So the term, not nice is racist?

 

Get a grip of yourself!

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

I'm glad this has been brought up as the SFA said they were going to stamp it out altogether,which they quite clearly have'nt,so by doing so maybe instead of burying their head in the sand they might have to do something drastic like dock points

 

Agreed 30-40 points each should give us a chance!

[H J Simpson]

Perhaps this will not be able to be brushed under the carpet.

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/scottishpremier/rangers/2965368/New-sectarian-chants-blow-for-Rangers---Football.html

 

I could be daft here but the article states the complaint came from a 'Glasgow-born Celtic fan of Irish ancestry'. If thats the case what right does he have to complain to the Irish consulant - should he not have to contact the British one??

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

I could be daft here but the article states the complaint came from a 'Glasgow-born Celtic fan of Irish ancestry'. If thats the case what right does he have to complain to the Irish consulant - should he not have to contact the British one??

 

All celtic fans are irish

 

FACT

 

(or at least thats what they would have you believe)

[jumpship]

Scotland needs to send out a clear Strong message that this sort of hatred can't go on and two sports clubs that give freedom to spew out this hatred should be closed down for good.

 

Silly little gimmicks like bhoys against bigotry just hides the hatred and tries to justify it . No more i say . The only way forward for Scotland is to close rangers and Celtic down.

 

Now i believe closing the old firm down would wipe out 95% of all religious hatred crimes . But lets just say I'm wrong and it only wipes out half or even 40-30- 20% wouldn't it be worth closing the old firm down to cut out 20% of religious crimes...... If you say no then you are no better then the people who carry out the crimes.........

[Guest S.U.S.S.]

Scotland needs to send out a clear Strong message that this sort of hatred can't go on and two sports clubs that give freedom to spew out this hatred should be closed down for good.

 

Silly little gimmicks like bhoys against bigotry just hides the hatred and tries to justify it . No more i say . The only way forward for Scotland is to close rangers and Celtic down.

 

Now i believe closing the old firm down would wipe out 95% of all religious hatred crimes . But lets just say I'm wrong and it only wipes out half or even 40-30- 20% wouldn't it be worth closing the old firm down to cut out 20% of religious crimes...... If you say no then you are no better then the people who carry out the crimes.........

 

Sorry mate but i disagree, all that would happen is these people would attach themselves to another club.

[Rosewood]

Sorry mate but i disagree, all that would happen is these people would attach themselves to another club.

 

As someone said earlier this is a storm in a tea cup. Perhaps the song is a bit unpleasant but it is not sectarian and there are much worse in the bigot brothers repetoire that need be stamped out first.

 

Quite funny though

[Cigaro]

Nope, as "they are making efforts to eradicate the problem"

 

[The Riddler]

Hows the rangers fans singing telling plastic paddys to go home sectarian

 

Offensive at the most maybe, football banter at it's best in my eyes!