House Prices in Edinburgh

[coppercrutch]

We will fight them on the Tundra, we shall never surrender.

 

Calgary. Prices have gone through the roof here as well, over the past 4 - 5 years. We have a condo, doontoon on which, up until a year or so ago, we'd done pretty well. (we paid the downpayment before they'd even broken ground) Things are, how do they put it again "levelling off" (I'm familiar with the artistic license they take in their terminology) due to some of the same factors discussed here. Also, they've been building so many of the feckin things, there's now an over-supply and consequently, prices are dropping.

 

Well whatever happens to the price of oil the demand is not exactly likely to disappear. How much oversupply is there in Calgary ? Similar to Vancouver ?

 

And yes you watch out for those dastardly Yankees. They are ****ing nutters afterall.

 

I viewed a 2 bedroom condo development in RocKy Ridge, the NW last. $199,000.

 

If I could get residency or a long term working visa quickly, I'd punt my place here now and be over there like a shot.

 

Where is that ? NW last ? I am the same as you - would be over in a ****ing shot !!

 

If you are under 30 thought about the WHM visa ? Did it myself. Would love to do it again.

[Walter Kidd]

I can't beleive I am going to have another 'Lower house prices are actually good' debate. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT !!!

 

So what ? To save all those who have bought in the last 2 years from negative equity - lets keep house prices at stupidly high prices for eternity ?

 

The only people who will really suffer from this are those who have bought in thelast 3-4 years. Everyone else will be fine. Everyone else who has been unable to buy recently will be better off.(With patience) Everyone who is looking to move up to a larger house will be better off(With patience)Estate agents will be worse off. Property developers will be worse off.

 

Seriously this is an argument I have had so often it is ridiculous.

 

Explain to me how high oil prices, high food prices, high insurance prices and high flight prices are good for the majority and you win.

 

The only people who think house prices won't fall are those that don't want it to fall. Everyone else uses their common sense and sees what is coming.

 

You are correct about places having higher prices having further to drop. I totally agree. However when people talk about this they always talk about 'Southern England'. The simple fact is many places in Edinburgh are more expensive than places in Southern England.

 

Logic and common sense are on my side. I am happy to go with their historical record of being spot on 99 times out of a hundred.

 

That includes me, who purchased my new home in November last year. In doing so I reduced my mortgage by ?100000 and have a ?300000 home. Can you tell me how I will suffer please?

[coppercrutch]

That includes me, who purchased my new home in November last year. In doing so I reduced my mortgage by ?100000 and have a ?300000 home. Can you tell me how I will suffer please?

 

I meant bought for the first time. I think you know that !!

 

So I take it you downsized ? Good time to do it. In a few years downsizing will be far less 'profitable'. But then upsizing will be far easier.

[Walter Kidd]

No I went from a 4 bedroomed house to a five bedroomed house.

 

My mortgage payments are manageable, have not a bad disposable income, so how will or am I suffering?

[J.T.F.Robertson]

Well whatever happens to the price of oil the demand is not exactly likely to disappear. How much oversupply is there in Calgary ? Similar to Vancouver ?

 

And yes you watch out for those dastardly Yankees. They are ****ing nutters afterall.

 

The oil and gas reserves will be a secondary consideration. Everyone knows Canada's a developer of weapons of mass destruction, so it'll be on their own head.

 

I don't know the Van/Calgary stats.

With it's economy resource based, Alberta's always been (in)famous for it's boom/bust cycles. In my time here, I've been through a few of them. None quite match this one on the boom (length of time) side though.

[blairdin]

I can't beleive I am going to have another 'Lower house prices are actually good' debate. THERE IS NO ARGUMENT !!!

 

So what ? To save all those who have bought in the last 2 years from negative equity - lets keep house prices at stupidly high prices for eternity ?

 

The only people who will really suffer from this are those who have bought in thelast 3-4 years. Everyone else will be fine. Everyone else who has been unable to buy recently will be better off.(With patience) Everyone who is looking to move up to a larger house will be better off(With patience)Estate agents will be worse off. Property developers will be worse off.

 

Seriously this is an argument I have had so often it is ridiculous.

 

Explain to me how high oil prices, high food prices, high insurance prices and high flight prices are good for the majority and you win.

 

The only people who think house prices won't fall are those that don't want it to fall. Everyone else uses their common sense and sees what is coming.

 

You are correct about places having higher prices having further to drop. I totally agree. However when people talk about this they always talk about 'Southern England'. The simple fact is many places in Edinburgh are more expensive than places in Southern England.

 

Logic and common sense are on my side. I am happy to go with their historical record of being spot on 99 times out of a hundred.

 

The 3-4% of people you mention who will suddenly be faced with negative equity are mainly young people - many who struggled to buy their first home to start families. It would be a disaster for this country if these people became the victim of the credit crunch. IMHO it won't happen.

 

Prices here will level off. Gone are the days when banks will lend more than 95% of your house value but using the affordability criteria banks calculate our mortgage entitlement with, prices at the current levels are affordable to most. Rightly or wrongly. There will not be a massive drop. Edinburgh may drop very slightly at worst, but the rest of Scotland where prices have been sensible will do continue to do well.

 

Oil prices will remain high. As it happens, my Uncle in Calgary is a senior Geologist with Tallisman and I spent some fascinating time with him in his office on the 35th floor of Bankers Hall in downtown Calgary just last week. Oil prices are governed only by supply and demand. That's it. The price of oil will not fall drastically, even if property value does. I don't like that one iota, but that's the way it is.

 

Where is that ? NW last ? I am the same as you - would be over in a ****ing shot !!

 

If you are under 30 thought about the WHM visa ? Did it myself. Would love to do it again.

 

Sorry - that was meant to say NW last week. My bad typing. The condo (2 bed appartment basically) was in the North West region of Calgary. Area is called Rocky Ridge. Stunning.

 

Sadly, I'm 30 next year and have a new-ish lady in my life so just taking things as they come. If I go to Canada (and fingers crossed I do one day), it would be the long emigration process and it would be for keeps.

[Boaby Ewing]

The 3-4% of people you mention who will suddenly be faced with negative equity are mainly young people - many who struggled to buy their first home to start families. It would be a disaster for this country if these people became the victim of the credit crunch. IMHO it won't happen.

 

Prices here will level off. Gone are the days when banks will lend more than 95% of your house value but using the affordability criteria banks calculate our mortgage entitlement with, prices at the current levels are affordable to most. Rightly or wrongly. There will not be a massive drop. Edinburgh may drop very slightly at worst, but the rest of Scotland where prices have been sensible will do continue to do well.

 

Oil prices will remain high. As it happens, my Uncle in Calgary is a senior Geologist with Tallisman and I spent some fascinating time with him in his office on the 35th floor of Bankers Hall in downtown Calgary just last week. Oil prices are governed only by supply and demand. That's it. The price of oil will not fall drastically, even if property value does. I don't like that one iota, but that's the way it is.

 

 

While I agree the oil price won't fall dramatically, the part in bold isn't strictly true in my opinion.

[coppercrutch]

No I went from a 4 bedroomed house to a five bedroomed house.

 

My mortgage payments are manageable, have not a bad disposable income, so how will or am I suffering?

 

So you moved out of town then ? As I said I was talking about people that have bought for the first time recently. Anyway as I was saying not many people will suffer much from prices crashing. Thanks for backing that up.

 

Just to pick you up on something though:

 

have a ?300000 home

 

Unless you have no mortgage you don't own a ?300,000 home.

 

I currently have a ?450k home. I don't own it though.

[coppercrutch]

The oil and gas reserves will be a secondary consideration. Everyone knows Canada's a developer of weapons of mass destruction, so it'll be on their own head.

 

I don't know the Van/Calgary stats.

With it's economy resource based, Alberta's always been (in)famous for it's boom/bust cycles. In my time here, I've been through a few of them. None quite match this one on the boom (length of time) side though.

 

Talking in purely 'common sense' terms that is not a good sign....

 

Extra long booms tend to be followed by.....

[Walter Kidd]

So you moved out of town then ? As I said I was talking about people that have bought for the first time recently. Anyway as I was saying not many people will suffer much from prices crashing. Thanks for backing that up.

 

Just to pick you up on something though:

 

 

 

Unless you have no mortgage you don't own a ?300,000 home.

 

I currently have a ?450k home. I don't own it though.

 

 

 

I have a mortgage of 45k. Again Mr Smarty Pants, where am I suffering?

[coppercrutch]

The 3-4% of people you mention who will suddenly be faced with negative equity are mainly young people - many who struggled to buy their first home to start families. It would be a disaster for this country if these people became the victim of the credit crunch. IMHO it won't happen.

 

Prices here will level off. Gone are the days when banks will lend more than 95% of your house value but using the affordability criteria banks calculate our mortgage entitlement with, prices at the current levels are affordable to most. Rightly or wrongly. There will not be a massive drop. Edinburgh may drop very slightly at worst, but the rest of Scotland where prices have been sensible will do continue to do well.

 

Oil prices will remain high. As it happens, my Uncle in Calgary is a senior Geologist with Tallisman and I spent some fascinating time with him in his office on the 35th floor of Bankers Hall in downtown Calgary just last week. Oil prices are governed only by supply and demand. That's it. The price of oil will not fall drastically, even if property value does. I don't like that one iota, but that's the way it is.

 

 

 

Sorry - that was meant to say NW last week. My bad typing. The condo (2 bed appartment basically) was in the North West region of Calgary. Area is called Rocky Ridge. Stunning.

 

Sadly, I'm 30 next year and have a new-ish lady in my life so just taking things as they come. If I go to Canada (and fingers crossed I do one day), it would be the long emigration process and it would be for keeps.

 

I think you are forgetting the other side of the coin. For every person who has struggled to get on the 'ladder' in the past few years - there is someone who has held back and waited. For every person who will lose their home and be devastated - there will be someone who has been sitting saving money waiting to get a place. It all evens up in the end.

 

There has been one major disaster in this country in the past decade. That is the change from a house being seen as a 'home' to it to being seen as an 'investment'. It is the idea that it is ok for people to have to work every hour of the week simply to get a basic roof over their head. That has been destroying this country. The sooner it comes to an end the better.

[david mcgee]

Still some people who think the worst is behind us and that Edinburgh is immune.

 

Edinburgh will suffer badly in this downturn.

Our house prices are over inflated.

Our economy is built on the financial sector.

Job losses have not yet fed through, but by Xmas i expect the RBS, Standard Life and Widows will follow HBOS in making redundancies.

 

Add to that the Winter fuel bills and the consumer stopping spending and you will see house prices fall, repossesions rise and major increases in unemployment.

[coppercrutch]

I have a mortgage of 45k. Again Mr Smarty Pants, where am I suffering?

 

Eh, you are backing up my point...

 

Ok how are you suffering ? If you insist....

 

Well in 4 years when you come on chat forums and tell people how much your house is worth you will be saying 200k rather than 300k. Sure you can cope with that though.

 

Smartypants.

 

[coppercrutch]

Still some people who think the worst is behind us and that Edinburgh is immune.

 

Edinburgh will suffer badly in this downturn.

Our house prices are over inflated.

Our economy is built on the financial sector.

Job losses have not yet fed through, but by Xmas i expect the RBS, Standard Life and Widows will follow HBOS in making redundancies.

 

Add to that the Winter fuel bills and the consumer stopping spending and you will see house prices fall, repossesions rise and major increases in unemployment.

 

Thing is even the Edinburgh Property Cartel are admitting the game is up. Yet still people are in denial..

 

Jeez - when the ESPC tell you house prices are falling you should be thinking 'off a cliff'...

 

I do find this incredibly interesting though. It is like Hearts fans who want us to succeed no matter what common sense tells us. I can understand that.

[Walter Kidd]

Eh, you are backing up my point...

 

Ok how are you suffering ? If you insist....

 

Well in 4 years when you come on chat forums and tell people how much your house is worth you will be saying 200k rather than 300k. Sure you can cope with that though.

 

Smartypants.

 

 

That's fair enough. In twenty years when I move to my place in Cyprus I am sure it will be worth 500k.

 

And I won't be living with my mum. Smartypants.

[coppercrutch]

That's fair enough. In twenty years when I move to my place in Cyprus I am sure it will be worth 500k.

 

And I won't be living with my mum. Smartypants.

 

Please don't tell me you have invested in a property in Cyprus....

 

Anyway if I decide to buy a house outright before the age of 35, and pay the bank ZERO in interest EVER then I am sure I will feel very sad. Not.

[Walter Kidd]

Not invested no, I bought a home out there. Cypriot Pounds, got a very good deal. Before the Euro.

[coppercrutch]

Not invested no, I bought a home out there. Cypriot Pounds, got a very good deal. Before the Euro.

 

You living out there ? Never been myself but sounds nice. Bit too hot though ? For a ginger..

[Walter Kidd]

Plan to live out there once the kids have grown up. In the meantime it's nice for a holiday.

 

Factor 50 works well mate.

[blairdin]

I think you are forgetting the other side of the coin. For every person who has struggled to get on the 'ladder' in the past few years - there is someone who has held back and waited. For every person who will lose their home and be devastated - there will be someone who has been sitting saving money waiting to get a place. It all evens up in the end.

 

There has been one major disaster in this country in the past decade. That is the change from a house being seen as a 'home' to it to being seen as an 'investment'. It is the idea that it is ok for people to have to work every hour of the week simply to get a basic roof over their head. That has been destroying this country. The sooner it comes to an end the better.

 

I see your point, but I don't think this will even out as you say. I suspect there are far greater percentage of people who stretched themselves to afford a home than there are like yourself who haven't/didn't.

 

I completely agree that property 'investors' have alot to answer for.

[coppercrutch]

Plan to live out there once the kids have grown up. In the meantime it's nice for a holiday.

 

Factor 50 works well mate.

 

I manage to get away with about 15-20. Just.

[coppercrutch]

I see your point, but I don't think this will even out as you say. I suspect there are far greater percentage of people who stretched themselves to afford a home than there are like yourself who haven't/didn't.

 

I completely agree that property 'investors' have alot to answer for.

 

I wouldn't be too sure of that. There have been 2 large surveys done about what people want to happen with house prices. In both these wanting prices to drop is more than those wanting them to rise. Think one was done by BBC/Yougov.

 

Personally it is about 50/50 with people I know.

[blairdin]

I wouldn't be too sure of that. There have been 2 large surveys done about what people want to happen with house prices. In both these wanting prices to drop is more than those wanting them to rise. Think one was done by BBC/Yougov.

 

Personally it is about 50/50 with people I know.

 

It's more like 80/20 for me, but I'm maybe a few years older?

[J.T.F.Robertson]

Talking in purely 'common sense' terms that is not a good sign....

 

Extra long booms tend to be followed by.....

 

I picked that up from your back home, property theories.

 

Like Edinburgh, it seems the over-supply I alluded to here, has also been fuelled by the speculators among us.

God bless 'em!

[coppercrutch]

It's more like 80/20 for me, but I'm maybe a few years older?

 

Could be. But then you must know people that bought years ago, and so won't be that bothered by this ?

 

I picked that up from your back home, property theories.

 

Like Edinburgh, it seems the over-supply I alluded to here, has also been fuelled by the speculators among us.

God bless 'em!

 

Aye those speculators !!

 

I am all in for investing and gambling etc....

 

However when it comes to this subject a roof over your head is a basic human need. Would be nice if the Government's put something in place to keep this basic necessity in reach for most, in one way or another.

 

Really disgusts me now when you have Broon and his cronies yapping on about 'Helping first time buyers with shared equity schemes'...

 

If they and the FSA had got their act together a few years ago - there would be no 'affordable housing' problem.

[Munch]

Fair enough, we can therefore conclude that the other of my reasons is the correct one, i.e. the EA in question doesn't train its staff properly. Personally if I was in that game right now I'd be crawling through glassy ****** to get a sale.

 

N.B. If you read the post again, I didn't actually get to look at the flat!

 

Estate Agents in my experience are pretty use less i called one last week to ask if i could look at a flat 2 doors along from there office, the flat was empty and looked just what i was looking for.

 

I politely inquired if i could view the flat, i was told the computer is not working so the answer is no.

 

I politely asked her what did the computer not working have to do with me viewing the flat i was only a few Min's away from there office, and i was keen too look that afternoon, as i assumed they had keys for the flat as it was empty.

 

Unbelievable what happened next she Bawled down the phone " THE COMPUTER IS NOT WORKING DO YOU NOT HEAR WHAT I AM SAYING YOU WILL HAVE TO PHONE ANOTHER BRANCH " the nearest other branch is around 15 miles away in another town.

 

Anyway for anyone interested she refused to give me her name at first, i eventually got out of her that her name was Carol, she cart Blanche refused to give me her second name, and she asked me why i wanted her name, i told her i was no longer interested in the property.

 

Company GSB in Dunbar, who have recently paid off many staff, With this one answering the phones with her attitude i suspect there will be more pay offs.

 

The bottom line is Estate Agents don't give a hoot, 1% fee for sticking a board up, and treating customers like dirt.

[coppercrutch]

Now we have a great idea from the SNP Housing Minister....

 

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/uk/Give-Scots-families-better-mortgage.4439148.jp

 

"BANKS should treat Scottish customers more favourably than their English counterparts because the housing market in Scotland is more resilient, the SNP housing minister has said."

 

What a stupid idea. The lack of knowledge of this 'Housing Minister' is staggering. He thinks "the market in Scotland is buoyant" !!!! There are even Estate Agents now rubbishing this whole 'Scotland is different' nonsense. If they are saying that people should listen. They are not exactly the first people to 'Talk the market down' FFS !!

 

As I pointed out in a comment the logic behind this hair brained sceme is so flawed:

 

"If the market up here is as 'buoyant' as the Minister thinks - then surely the mortgage offers that are available now are working just fine. So why the need to change them...."

[Peebo]

Gold shares taken a tanking. Down about 20 %. Still unsure which way they are heading though. Going to hold on for just now. Bit of a gamble - always was !! I can afford to lose it

 

Oh dear. Your much heralded investment has lost 20% of it's value...your business relies on revenue from an industry you consider to be "goosed"...you live in a country you consider to be "goosed".

 

Doesn't sound like you are using all of your economic knowledge to your advantage. Just as well you aren't as ignorant as the rest of us, or that you aren't exposed to normal property rental or mortgage costs.

[flecktimus]

I did tell you a couple of months ago flecktimus that house prices in Scotland would not react in the same way as England. I would ignore CC and his doom and gloom ramblings, "That lady aint for turning":rolleyes:

 

I also see the US economy grew at a revised 3.3% annually in the second quarter of 2008, much higher than its first estimate of 1.9%. Perhaps things are starting to change for the better.

 

Yes I remember your post and respected your view then as I do now, but I will still stick my neck out to a 10% - 15% drop in house prices in Edinburgh.

 

The evidence is everywhere, properties are just not selling. For the first time in living memory I am seeing for sale signs in Danderhall (where my parents live) and they are not being taken down. I have also been watching 9 properties of interest to me in Edinburgh city centre for the last 5 mths and they are all still available.

 

These people are just like me, if they have to sell, they have to drop the price. That is just a fact of economics down south or up north.

 

Just for the record I don?t go along with CC 30%-50% ramblings

[flecktimus]

Oh dear. Your much heralded investment has lost 20% of it's value...your business relies on revenue from an industry you consider to be "goosed"...you live in a country you consider to be "goosed".

 

Doesn't sound like you are using all of your economic knowledge to your advantage. Just as well you aren't as ignorant as the rest of us, or that you aren't exposed to normal property rental or mortgage costs.

 

Thats a bigger drop than the price of my house

[Peebo]

Thats a bigger drop than the price of my house

 

Yeah, I'm sure Alanis Morissette would have something to say about that.

[coppercrutch]

Oh dear. Your much heralded investment has lost 20% of it's value...your business relies on revenue from an industry you consider to be "goosed"...you live in a country you consider to be "goosed".

 

Doesn't sound like you are using all of your economic knowledge to your advantage. Just as well you aren't as ignorant as the rest of us, or that you aren't exposed to normal property rental or mortgage costs.

 

Peebo Peebo..

 

My gold investment was a gamble. I said that all along. No big deal. I will stick with it and see what happens. My short foray into spread betting was also a gamble. I got quickly stung which was actually quite a good thing to happen. How many other people on this forum have divulged where their investments are presently ?

 

My overall plan is the important thing. That is based on me saving up as much as possible - 'making hay whilst the sun shines' as they say. Then when things hit rock botom and most people are struggling to pay off debts etc... I will be cash rich to take advantage of property prices that have been reduced by roughly 30%+ from peak.

 

Of course nobody really knows what will happen exactly. However my plan is ticking along nicely so far. As you say how my work fares will be very important. Will cross that bridge when I come to it

 

I am already a third of the way to my target - that I reckon in 4 years will get me what I want.

 

Of course in 4 years time this country could be royally ****ed but nothing I can do about it - so I will plod on !!

[flecktimus]

Yeah, I'm sure Alanis Morissette would have something to say about that.

 

 

Do you mean this

 

 

[Sherlock]

I think you are forgetting the other side of the coin. For every person who has struggled to get on the 'ladder' in the past few years - there is someone who has held back and waited. For every person who will lose their home and be devastated - there will be someone who has been sitting saving money waiting to get a place. It all evens up in the end...

 

Does it?

 

Every person who has their home repossessed has to live somewhere.

 

They'll turn to the their local authority. Their local authority will undoubtedly have nowhere near enough council homes to house these people who lost everything when their homes were repossessed so the local authority will place them in private rented accommodation and pick up the tab.

 

The local authority may pick up the tab but who do think really pays for it?

[Peebo]

Does it?

 

Every person who has their home repossessed has to live somewhere.

 

They'll turn to the their local authority. Their local authority will undoubtedly have nowhere near enough council homes to house these people who lost everything when their homes were repossessed so the local authority will place them in private rented accommodation and pick up the tab.

 

The local authority may pick up the tab but who do think really pays for it?

 

Meanwhile, those who made an absolute killing by picking up councils houses can only look back on Tory policy of old and smile...

 

You're absolutely right about the private rentals, though. I've seen some here poo-poo the idea of rising rents, based on the notion that as the economy declines, the tenants can't pay what is being demanded. In many cases, it is irrelevant, as the tenants rent is paid by the taxpayer anyway. My mate used to work as a rent assessor for the Scottish Executive - landlords absolutely extract the urine with what they charge, and the tenant could not care less.

[Sherlock]

Meanwhile, those who made an absolute killing by picking up councils houses can only look back on Tory policy of old and smile...

 

You're absolutely right about the private rentals, though. I've seen some here poo-poo the idea of rising rents, based on the notion that as the economy declines, the tenants can't pay what is being demanded. In many cases, it is irrelevant, as the tenants rent is paid by the taxpayer anyway. My mate used to work as a rent assessor for the Scottish Executive - landlords absolutely extract the urine with what they charge, and the tenant could not care less.

 

And those that are absolutely delighted at the state of the market and gloating over picking up bargains will be the same ones that'll be moaning when taxes go through the roof to pay for it all.

 

But still... It all evens up in the end.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Legend, the problem with that is that Labour can't pump prime the economy in that fashion, as their growth assumptions and borrowing requirements are fecked. This is why the pound has also started to tank (suits me!) among other reasons.

 

Undoubtedly, the social security budget will have to rise but there will have to be cuts elsewhere to pay for it. Hopefully, government will get rid of the non-job diversity co-ordinators, although they are part of New Labour's payroll and actually focus on waste.

 

However, I think the rest of Labour, apart from Brown, will be happy to lose in 2010. Since the three pillars of the UK economy (property, financial services and retailing) are all in big trouble, it is natural the economy will be in big trouble too.

[coppercrutch]

I think you two are missing the point. Of course people need to be housed somewhere. Of course there is a demand for council housing etc.. No argument there.

 

That is not the point.

 

The point is there is absolutely no need to pay 200k + interest to get a basic roof over your head in Edinburgh. That is a simple fact. That has very little to do with social housing etc and everything to do with greed and a speculative bubble. Very, very few benefit from these high prices. It is so simple and basic and logical I still find it incredible that so many people WANT house prices to be stupidly high.

 

These same people probably despair when their shopping or fuel goes up. However when house prices shoot up - Big party !!

 

It is crazy. It really is.

 

The only reason people like it is because it gives them the 'impression' they are 'rich'.

 

However I have lost count of the number of people I have met who have 'made ?50k' on their house but 'can't afford to come out because they are skint'.

 

It is a sad state of affairs. People could all be spending half as much for their mortgages - and spending the rest on actually enjoying themselves.

 

Instead it seems many prefer to be able to tell their mates how much 'they are worth'.

 

As I said - sad situation.

[coppercrutch]

Legend, the problem with that is that Labour can't pump prime the economy in that fashion, as their growth assumptions and borrowing requirements are fecked. This is why the pound has also started to tank (suits me!) among other reasons.

 

Undoubtedly, the social security budget will have to rise but there will have to be cuts elsewhere to pay for it. Hopefully, government will get rid of the non-job diversity co-ordinators, although they are part of New Labour's payroll and actually focus on waste.

 

However, I think the rest of Labour, apart from Brown, will be happy to lose in 2010. Since the three pillars of the UK economy (property, financial services and retailing) are all in big trouble, it is natural the economy will be in big trouble too.

 

I tend to agree. Then it will be left to the Tories to sort out.

 

The only saving grace is that the Tories will be able to blame everything on Labour. That means if they want to introduce truly radical new policies to try and stop all this stuff happening again - they will be able to.

 

However I doubt they will. They will have that opportunity though. Simply have to say they are sorting out Labours mess from the last 10 years. The voter will give them 2 terms to sort that out.

 

Fingers crossed something good comes out of this.

[Peebo]

I think you two are missing the point. Of course people need to be housed somewhere. Of course there is a demand for council housing etc.. No argument there.

 

That is not the point.

 

Assuming I am one of the two this addressed two...just because you can't find anything to argue about, it does not mean we are missing the point. The point can change, while the discussion around a topic continues.

 

Since we are on the subject of points, one that you seem to miss, despite your apparent obsession with the topic, is that house prices are not really comparable with the cost of food or petrol. Unless, of course, one is buying a house outright, as you will be doing in the next decade, or so.

[Sherlock]

I think you two are missing the point. Of course people need to be housed somewhere. Of course there is a demand for council housing etc.. No argument there.

 

That is not the point.

 

The point is there is absolutely no need to pay 200k + interest to get a basic roof over your head in Edinburgh. That is a simple fact. That has very little to do with social housing etc and everything to do with greed and a speculative bubble. Very, very few benefit from these high prices. It is so simple and basic and logical I still find it incredible that so many people WANT house prices to be stupidly high.

 

These same people probably despair when their shopping or fuel goes up. However when house prices shoot up - Big party !!

 

It is crazy. It really is.

 

The only reason people like it is because it gives them the 'impression' they are 'rich'.

 

However I have lost count of the number of people I have met who have 'made ?50k' on their house but 'can't afford to come out because they are skint'.

 

It is a sad state of affairs. People could all be spending half as much for their mortgages - and spending the rest on actually enjoying themselves.

 

Instead it seems many prefer to be able to tell their mates how much 'they are worth'.

 

As I said - sad situation.

 

I think it is actually you who is missing the point.

 

Yes there is no need for prices to be as high as they have been over the last 10 years but the FACT remains... they have been. Like it or lump it, the fact remains that people have been paying what you think is over the odds for years.

 

You want the prices to fall, fair enough - thats your prerogative. But when homes start getting repossessed all over Edinburgh...

 

Who do you think will ultimately pay for those who have been repossessed to have a roof over their heads?

 

You, who has been willing to sacrifice his freedom and stay with his dear old mum to ensure he leads a debt free life, will have to contribute to housing people to spent willy-nilly.

[coppercrutch]

Assuming I am one of the two this addressed two...just because you can't find anything to argue about, it does not mean we are missing the point. The point can change, while the discussion around a topic continues.

 

Since we are on the subject of points, one that you seem to miss, despite your apparent obsession with the topic, is that house prices are not really comparable with the cost of food or petrol. Unless, of course, one is buying a house outright, as you will be doing in the next decade, or so.

 

They are all things you buy. Their price goes up or down. I think they are entirely comparable. Clearly the difference is that one is mainly paid with debt. Of course that makes a rise in it's cost far more important than something not usually paid for by credit.

 

As for your points about council housing all I am saying is that has very little to do with the cost of buying a house.

[coppercrutch]

I think it is actually you who is missing the point.

 

Yes there is no need for prices to be as high as they have been over the last 10 years but the FACT remains... they have been. Like it or lump it, the fact remains that people have been paying what you think is over the odds for years.

 

You want the prices to fall, fair enough - thats your prerogative. But when homes start getting repossessed all over Edinburgh...

 

Who do you think will ultimately pay for those who have been repossessed to have a roof over their heads?

 

You, who has been willing to sacrifice his freedom and stay with his dear old mum to ensure he leads a debt free life, will have to contribute to housing people to spent willy-nilly.

 

I know who always pays. It is always the same. The people in the middle who work hard and pay their taxes. They always have and always will.

 

I am currently getting shafted by the Government. I will continue to get shafted by the Government. Not much I can do about it. That is entirely besides the point.

 

Whether the house I may choose to buy costs me 200k or 100k is far more important to me.

 

Do you really think it is more beneficial to the average person for house prices to remain stupidly high ? Simply to have to avoid paying for those that may get repossessed ? Are you being serious ?

 

This appears to me to be the argument of someone who simply does not want to face the inevitable.

 

Lower house prices are better than higher house prices.

[Peebo]

They are all things you buy. Their price goes up or down. I think they are entirely comparable. Clearly the difference is that one is mainly paid with debt. Of course that makes a rise in it's cost far more important than something not usually paid for by credit.

 

Entirely comparable, yet you point one rather significant difference???

 

Of course the other one that you are over-looking - petrol and food are consumable goods, houses generally are not. From my experience, the average man in your street does not purchase a loaf of bread with a view to eating and selling it later.

[Peebo]

Lower house prices are better than higher house prices.

 

Rising house prices are better than falling house prices.

[hmfc_steve]

This whole thread is just one big zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[coppercrutch]

Entirely comparable, yet you point one rather significant difference???

 

Of course the other one that you are over-looking - petrol and food are consumable goods, houses generally are not. From my experience, the average man in your street does not purchase a loaf of bread with a view to eating and selling it later.

 

They are all things you must pay for. Also you must remember a house is a depreciating asset. You must spend vast sums on simply keeping it in a condition where you can sell it on if you want. Of course it also provides it's major function - to live in. This is what has been forgotten in the last 5 years. That is the main sad aspect of this whole thing.

 

Rising house prices are better than falling house prices.

 

When they are sitting at a reasonable level, and are rising at a steady pace - Yes.

 

When they have been rising at a stupid pace and are at stupid levels - No.

[Peebo]

They are all things you must pay for. Also you must remember a house is a depreciating asset. You must spend vast sums on simply keeping it in a condition where you can sell it on if you want. Of course it also provides it's major function - to live in. This is what has been forgotten in the last 5 years. That is the main sad aspect of this whole thing.

 

Yes, many aspects of a house invariably suffer from depreciating factors. Others do not.

 

 

When they are sitting at a reasonable level, and are rising at a steady pace - Yes.

 

When they have been rising at a stupid pace and are at stupid levels - No.

 

Personally, I'd love to see house prices rising at a stupid pace, to stupid levels.

[Munch]

Meanwhile, those who made an absolute killing by picking up councils houses can only look back on Tory policy of old and smile...

 

You're absolutely right about the private rentals, though. I've seen some here poo-poo the idea of rising rents, based on the notion that as the economy declines, the tenants can't pay what is being demanded. In many cases, it is irrelevant, as the tenants rent is paid by the taxpayer anyway. My mate used to work as a rent assessor for the Scottish Executive - landlords absolutely extract the urine with what they charge, and the tenant could not care less.

 

Then rent to the Government, they pay 562 for a 2 bed, 772, for a 3 bed, and 1100 for a 4 bed, index linked over 5 years, guaranteed money into your account and no management fees, and guaranteed too return it into the same condition they got it from you.

 

in 5 years you will get around 725 for a 2 bed, 900 for a 3, and 1300 for a 4 bed.

 

http://www.orchardshipman.co.uk

 

The demand is unlimited as long as the homeless are looking for new homes to stay in.

 

According too there info these prices are 20 percent lower than what you would expect to get on the open rental market.

 

And who said rents are not rising,LOL they are in Edinburgh big time.

[coppercrutch]

Personally, I'd love to see house prices rising at a stupid pace, to stupid levels.

 

Well unfortunately for yourself that is unlikely to happen for a long time.

 

And who said rents are not rising,LOL they are in Edinburgh big time.

 

You have a short memory !! I will do another of my rental searches later. Compare to the previous 3. See what the real story is in regards to rents in Edinburgh. Maybe they are rising, maybe not. I doubt there is much change. Massive glut of places to rent just now unless I am mistaken.

 

'I'll just rent it out instead' is ensuring that.