Let's call them what they are

[BigAlim]

Good thread. I was born in 95 and whilst this has always been prevalent at games against Celtic I can’t remember this level of rangers pish during the Romanov era.

 

I feel like its gotten progressively worse recently which maybe is in tandem with the rise of Reform, Trump and Musks twitter making it more mainstream to be unapologetically full of hatred.

 

We can’t be writing it off as dinosaurs from a bygone era anymore, theres now a lot of guys in their twenties and late teens who want to get a rise out of normal people 

[Taffin]

4 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Pretty plain to see his point is that there was no difference from one school to the next when it came to the kids, the point being that having such strong bigoted opinions about someone based on them being a different religion is completely nonsensical and idiotic.

 

What other than the part where they were indoctrinated to believe this:

 

"I learned that Catholic and non-Catholics are no different to each other. We wear the same clothes, speak the same language, and use the same swear words. Eat the same food, and allegedly believe in the same God"

 

That's a wild thing to be taught when you think about it. All non-catholics wear the same clothes, spoke the same language, ate the same food and believed in the same God as those in that classroom?

 

WOW! That in itself is bigoted and a trait that I'm not surprised others might rail against.

 

Asians? Who?

Africans? Who?

Indigenous peoples? Who?

 

No wonder missionaries wrecked the world with that mindset

 

[john thomas]

1 hour ago, Kev1998 said:

What bit should I read again

The bit that says this thread has got nothing to do with a debate about schools ,state or Catholic.

A debate you are obviously desperate to have .

Go away somewhere and have it 

[Eric Milligans Duffle Coat]

30 minutes ago, Rannoch said:

Northern Ireland and the city of Belfast has moved on. The terrorists are are now back to what they always were: drug dealing criminal parasites who don’t won’t to work for a living and an evil blight on their communities. The two Glasgow teams have sectarianism woven into their culture, identity and business plans. Sectarian United FC. Hearts fans attending games with their families and young children do not want to be contaminated by this disease. It’s bad for business. A hang up from the 1970s and is more of a Glasgow/ West Central Scotland phenomena that only comes into view when you get to the back of West Lothian /Falkirk area then becomes progressively worse the further west you travel.  I don’t quite understand it. It’s a alien and imported culture. The club and FOH need to act.

 
Spot on.

 

That whole element has been propagated by a relatively small group of people over the years. We all know who they are. Now more than ever in 2024 it’s needs to be made clear there is no place for it at Tynecastle.

[Craiglockhart No.9]

My wife is catholic. She is not into football and she is not British. So was baffled when I had to explain the Trainspotting 2 old firm scene and how religion plays such a big role in Scottish football.

 

In Scotland, fuelled by football, unfortunately religion turns into a bigoted hate filled scumpit very quickly.

[Wish]

2 minutes ago, colinmorewasgash said:

I actually thought things were getting better but this season folk could be frustrated, but its embarrassing. If you love all that piss off to Ibrox. I've watched Hearts 53 years I have catholic hearts fans in my family circle going back to the 50s no need for this. Im no wokey I even sung the same songs in 70s and 80s as daft laddie but I grew up. All it does is fuel the weegie press rhetoric we are mini sevco. Plus any investment could be curtailed by whoever catholic muslim or as a jew in tony blooms case. Stick to Hearts songs I don't care what religion our players are or care about Ireland all I want is us to start winning. As I say I have protestant and catholics in family who were always hearts fans and even hibs fans on my mums side who are protestant we dont need this crap back again.

I'm in my early fifties and done the same stupid things when i was young and sung the daft songs, idiotic shouts at players. Then I grew up and realise what a little dick I was being. 

 

Had a an ex who was from the west coast. Her uncle was a Rangers man, said his second favourite team was us (immediately knew why 🙄). One time was over seeing him, and he was 'come here, listen to this'. He was playing his orange songs, dead pleased with himself, thinking I'd love it. I just thought, what a sad old bigoted twat.......

[hmfc1440]

1 hour ago, kingantti1874 said:

The fact that catholic schools exist is one of the big problems. How do we expect to resolve these problems when kids are separated into tribes at an early age .

 And let’s not pretend that this is a one sided problem as it certainly is not.  There is equal amount of stupidity in both sides. 
 

and I speak as someone who has a large side of the family who are catholic also. 
 

it has more to do with politics than religion tbh.  

"There is equal amount of stupidity in both sides." - & therein lies the answer.

[vegas-voss]

9 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said:

We hear sectarianism being berated in our society but we encourage it by our school system. Much as I agree this shouldn't be about schools, the fact is it is about the attitudes planted in kids minds from an early age. That sticks whether the child is 'relgious' or not.

When you were at high school did you notice a big divide with Catholics.I certainly didn't and what religion are you taught at primary school that makes you have a hatred for Catholic's.

[Bender]

1 hour ago, tazhearts said:

I think blaming the Ultras is a wee bit harsh.  From what I saw, the main protagonists for the sectarian chants / songs were pissed up male supporters in the 40 - 55 year old bracket.

I was quite near where the Ultras were in the main square (just beside the Sportman Cafe) before the game and I didn’t hear them sing anything sectarian or racist. But that was a very busy part of the square so maybe it did happen. 
 

38 minutes ago, Rannoch said:

Northern Ireland and the city of Belfast has moved on. The terrorists are are now back to what they always were: drug dealing criminal parasites who don’t won’t to work for a living and an evil blight on their communities. The two Glasgow teams have sectarianism woven into their culture, identity and business plans. Sectarian United FC. Hearts fans attending games with their families and young children do not want to be contaminated by this disease. It’s bad for business. A hang up from the 1970s and is more of a Glasgow/ West Central Scotland phenomena that only comes into view when you get to the back of West Lothian /Falkirk area then becomes progressively worse the further west you travel.  I don’t quite understand it. It’s a alien and imported culture. The club and FOH need to act.

Yes, it has moved on. Significantly. But there are still some misguided fools who think it was some kind of glorious struggle when, in reality, it was an extremely frightening time for anyone who lived there. Scottish society needs to grow up and move on. 

[heartgarfunkel]

Great post John. 
 

I have invested as much as I can afford into HMFC via season tickets and FOH contributions, but if I had serious money through a business, I wouldn’t go near Hearts with a bargepole just now to invest, as to all intents and purposes the imagery and sound from a sizeable minority is toxic. Who wants to be associated with all that shite. 
 

I would like to see these bigots called out at every level by the club and the Foundation. 
 

And in 2024 schools have nothing to do with violent, sectarian and racist ***** in our support. 

[BackOfTheNet]

5 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What other than the part where they were indoctrinated to believe this:

 

"I learned that Catholic and non-Catholics are no different to each other. We wear the same clothes, speak the same language, and use the same swear words. Eat the same food, and allegedly believe in the same God"

 

That's a wild thing to be taught when you think about it. All non-catholics wear the same clothes, spoke the same language, ate the same food and believed in the same God as those in that classroom?

 

WOW! That in itself is bigoted and a trait that I'm not surprised others might rail against.

 

Asians? Who?

Africans? Who?

Indigenous peoples? Who?

 

No wonder missionaries wrecked the world with that mindset

 

The guy said he was baptised in 1963, meaning the 60’s and 70’s were his childhood. If you think of the population back then was a lot less diverse then yes the “believing in the same god” is something that would be used to promote togetherness - at that time. In no way was John suggesting that he or the schools he grew up in preached against children of other ethnicities or religions.

 

I’m an atheist by the way. Have “both sides” of this debate from each side of my parentage. It’s why I see it for the ridiculousness it is. I also have a diverse family and friends because I grew up in a different time later on where there was more diversity. And I, like I believe John was alluding to, can see no difference from one kid to the next despite differences in race or religion or any other demographic. Because what makes people is what they say, do and think.

 

As an atheist I don’t believe in religious schools as religion and education should not be intertwined (same with church and state). At the very least they should not be subsidised. But it seems to me people who have an issue with Catholic schools seem to have a chip on their shoulder about those who went to them. It’s like “I’ll hate them before they get a chance to hate me” vibe. Regardless, none of this nonsense should be anywhere near football.

[Jambo Buckets]

6 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

What other than the part where they were indoctrinated to believe this:

 

"I learned that Catholic and non-Catholics are no different to each other. We wear the same clothes, speak the same language, and use the same swear words. Eat the same food, and allegedly believe in the same God"

 

That's a wild thing to be taught when you think about it. All non-catholics wear the same clothes, spoke the same language, ate the same food and believed in the same God as those in that classroom?

 

WOW! That in itself is bigoted and a trait that I'm not surprised others might rail against.

 

Asians? Who?

Africans? Who?

Indigenous peoples? Who?

 

No wonder missionaries wrecked the world with that mindset

 

Forgive me if I've missed the sarcasm in this post or it was intended as satirical but I will clarify if you are genuinely confused. He is saying he learned that no people or religion are inherently better or superior than another and that we should all be treated fairly and equally. The anti-Catholic feeling in Scotland is also strange when the hatred simply comes just from what church someone goes to, or used to go to, or who's parents went to because there is no other big cultural differences in the way our lives are lived. Hopefully that clears it up a bit. 

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

When you were at high school did you notice a big divide with Catholics.I certainly didn't and what religion are you taught at primary school that makes you have a hatred for Catholic's.

 

I did. There was a massive rivalry between Portobello and Holyrood. It was pathetic. I was even conscious at primary age that St Johns were different as they went to a different school. Ive no religion btw and wasn't brought up to have one. The only religious person in my family was my NI granny who was Catholic and moved to Scotland as a kid.

 

 

[BigAlim]

I also want to add that in England most of the fans don’t seem to have any idea if their club is a “catholic team” or a “protestant team” and they seem to get on with things alright 

[Kev1998]

17 minutes ago, kila said:

Wonder what Kev1998's favourite songs are

 

Why would you wonder that?when all I'm looking for is an answer to religious schooling.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

100% agree. No place for bigotry at Tynecastle.

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

The guy said he was baptised in 1963, meaning the 60’s and 70’s were his childhood. If you think of the population back then was a lot less diverse then yes the “believing in the same god” is something that would be used to promote togetherness - at that time. In no way was John suggesting that he or the schools he grew up in preached against children of other ethnicities or religions.

 

That's exactly what it is though, preaching that others don't even exist. The population wasn't less diverse back then, it was more diverse, it was pre-globalisation. People just denied it. Togetherness comes with exclusion and denial of others rights and existence. I'm not saying he preached it but it's clearly what he was taught. That's a major player in the whole issue. 

 

6 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I’m an atheist by the way. Have “both sides” of this debate from each side of my parentage. It’s why I see it for the ridiculousness it is. I also have a diverse family and friends because I grew up in a different time later on where there was more diversity. And I, like I believe John was alluding to, can see no difference from one kid to the next despite differences in race or religion or any other demographic. Because what makes people is what they say, do and think.

 

As an atheist I don’t believe in religious schools as religion and education should not be intertwined (same with church and state). At the very least they should not be subsidised. But it seems to me people who have an issue with Catholic schools seem to have a chip on their shoulder about those who went to them. It’s like “I’ll hate them before they get a chance to hate me” vibe. Regardless, none of this nonsense should be anywhere near football.

 

None of it should be near society, nevermind football. Whilst it exists, it will remain part of football in Scotland. I've lived in England for a decade and haven't encountered it once in the same way (there's different issues here - race mainly)

Edited November 29 by Taffin

[BackOfTheNet]

1 minute ago, Taffin said:

 

That's exactly what it is though, preaching that others don't even exist. The population wasn't less diverse back then, it was more diverse, it was pre-globalisation. People just denied it. Togetherness comes with exclusion and denial of others rights and existence. I'm not saying he preached it but it's clearly what he was taught. That's a major player in the whole issue. 

 

 

None of it should be near society, nevermind football. Whilst it exists, it will remain part of society. I've lived in England for a decade and haven't encountered it once in the same way (there's different issues here - race mainly)

Back on topic of football fans singing these songs and shagging their flags though, are we saying they are doing so because they went to a religious school or because they didn’t and it’s the religious school’s fault for segregating in the first place?

Because I’m personally of the opinion that grown adults (and young adults) should know better not to be flag shagging moronic troglodytes myself.

[vegas-voss]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I did. There was a massive rivalry between Portobello and Holyrood. It was pathetic. I was even conscious at primary age that St Johns were different as they went to a different school. Ive no religion btw and wasn't brought up to have one. The only religious person in my family was my NI granny who was Catholic and moved to Scotland as a kid.

 

 

Sorry I forgot Hollywood was a Catholic high school just most high schools are mixed.But you went to a Primary apart from the other school is different what were you taught that can cause hatred ?

 

None as far as I'm aware and my son who isn't Catholic but goes to a Catholic Primary certainly isn't taught anything that causes hatred or divide certainly doesn't hate any of his cousins school friends who go to Primary school.

[Gmcjambo]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Bigots.

This shouldn't really matter in this day and age, but alas it does to the braindead amongst us.

I am a Catholic, in that I was baptised a Catholic aged just Three months at Saint Margaret Mary's chapel Boswall Parkway 

In July 1963.

I attended the following schools in chronological order.

Royston Primary, Almond Bank primary Livingston, Dalmuir West primary, Dalmuir, Pirniehall primary, St Catherine's primary, St Peter's primary, and last but not least ST Thomas of Aquins Secondary.

As you can see I attended Four non-Catholic schools before I attended a Catholic school. My secondary school was interesting as for the four years I was there. We only had Eighty boys, of those Eighty boys at least Twenty of us were Heart of Midlothian supporters. That's Twenty Five percent of us. A whole one quarter of us at a Catholic school.

What did I learn at these schools.

I learned that Catholic and non-Catholics are no different to each other. We wear the same clothes, speak the same language, and use the same swear words. Eat the same food, and allegedly believe in the same God.

 

So to those of you in the Heart of Midlothian support who revel in singing being up to your knees in Fenian blood(which you mean Catholics) will you just do all us right thinking Heart of Midlothian supporters a favour and **** right off. 

You hate the IRA, guess what, so do I and unlike ninety nine percent of you, I went up against them. Ninety nine percent of you would shite your pants if you ever bumped into them.

Here's the thing I also hate the UDA. They are no different to the IRA terrorists just the same. 

I think I can speak for all right minded Heart of Midlothian supporters when I say. You are not wanted at Tynecastle, and you are not wanted at any football ground that The Heart of Midlothian at playing at.

So take yourselves and your pishy ditties/songs and **** right off.

You are not wanted, more to the point you are not needed.

Well said 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

[Chuck Berry]

39 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

The ‘fans’ doing this won’t care about that. They should, but they won’t. ****s.

 

I know, so the club need to stamp on them.

[Cruyff]

2024 and folk are still doing this.

[vegas-voss]

2 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

2024 and folk are still doing this.

And I bet they have friends and work colleagues ( who they will get along with no problem ) who are Catholics.Its ****ing mental 

Edited November 29 by vegas-voss

[Taffin]

12 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Back on topic of football fans singing these songs and shagging their flags though, are we saying they are doing so because they went to a religious school or because they didn’t and it’s the religious school’s fault for segregating in the first place?

Because I’m personally of the opinion that grown adults (and young adults) should know better not to be flag shagging moronic troglodytes myself.

 

Two separate things there, religion and whatever you deem flag shagging to be.

 

I'm saying the concept of organised religion is divisive and by its very existence drives people apart. In Scotland the existence of religious schools creates 'others' from a very early age, or from John's post that others don't even exist (I've never been to a religious school so can't comment on how common that is). People have been at war over religion for centuries and trying to spread their 'right' version to the world for millennia. So yes, I'm saying religion is the root cause (well, actually human nature, but that's well down the rabbit hole). Whilst it exists, then people will be divided and say mean things about the other ones.

 

I totally agree, there's no place for it in football or society. I just find it a bit rich someone coming on to say he was taught other religions, cultures and beliefs don't exist and then say bigotry is bad.

 

Rank brainlessness and feeling a need to belong is what causes it to prevail in the 21st century.

 

Flags? No idea, I don't tend to associate them to religions (outside of Muslim countries with Islamic iconography but do appreciate there will be loads including crosses etc that are linked. I don't know enough about them).

Edited November 29 by Taffin

[busbyfth]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Bigots.

This shouldn't really matter in this day and age, but alas it does to the braindead amongst us.

I am a Catholic, in that I was baptised a Catholic aged just Three months at Saint Margaret Mary's chapel Boswall Parkway 

In July 1963.

I attended the following schools in chronological order.

Royston Primary, Almond Bank primary Livingston, Dalmuir West primary, Dalmuir, Pirniehall primary, St Catherine's primary, St Peter's primary, and last but not least ST Thomas of Aquins Secondary.

As you can see I attended Four non-Catholic schools before I attended a Catholic school. My secondary school was interesting as for the four years I was there. We only had Eighty boys, of those Eighty boys at least Twenty of us were Heart of Midlothian supporters. That's Twenty Five percent of us. A whole one quarter of us at a Catholic school.

What did I learn at these schools.

I learned that Catholic and non-Catholics are no different to each other. We wear the same clothes, speak the same language, and use the same swear words. Eat the same food, and allegedly believe in the same God.

 

So to those of you in the Heart of Midlothian support who revel in singing being up to your knees in Fenian blood(which you mean Catholics) will you just do all us right thinking Heart of Midlothian supporters a favour and **** right off. 

You hate the IRA, guess what, so do I and unlike ninety nine percent of you, I went up against them. Ninety nine percent of you would shite your pants if you ever bumped into them.

Here's the thing I also hate the UDA. They are no different to the IRA terrorists just the same. 

I think I can speak for all right minded Heart of Midlothian supporters when I say. You are not wanted at Tynecastle, and you are not wanted at any football ground that The Heart of Midlothian at playing at.

So take yourselves and your pishy ditties/songs and **** right off.

You are not wanted, more to the point you are not needed.

 

I sang those songs when in my teens and even twenty/twenty one....over 40 years ago, when it was perceived as "fashionable" (moronic would be a better description)  - AND FOR DECADES I'VE CRINGED WHEN THINKING BACK HOW IGNORANT THIS WAS ......with more things known and opened up about many aspects of this lunacy over the past few decades, there is no excuse for bringing up all the historical bullshit. Why would folk in the east of a country not involved in the troubles, want to persevere with such outdated tripe ?  An embarrassment to our club !! 

[ｕｎｋｎｏｗｎｕｓｅｒ]

Hun simps GTF

Hun simps hun simps GTF

[martoon]

I heartily agree with the op.

 

I hate sectarianism and despise Hearts supporters who indulge in it. It's awful, moronic, childish behaviour and most are of an age that should know it.

 

I ditched a mate 20 years ago because of his carry on.

 

As a kid we all played happily together and I had many Catholic friends. I did think it was odd, however, that I, and others, took the short walk to the local primary while they had to get buses to faraway schools.

 

I've never felt sectarian but I made a conscious decision aged 14, maybe 15, that I would not sing some of the early-mid 80's ditties that could be heard in the shed. I wanted nothing to do with it and I didn't particularly know what they were about anyway.

 

Heart of Midlothian are for everyone. The club of Edinburgh and the Lothians and all people within and, of course, outwith.

 

 

[Jambo61]

2 hours ago, Kev1998 said:

Exactly.as the op stated the teachings in the roman Catholic school was not to hate"were all the same" so why have a different school in the first place.

Choice.....or is that just for some? No I'm not!

[busbyfth]

27 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

When you were at high school did you notice a big divide with Catholics.I certainly didn't and what religion are you taught at primary school that makes you have a hatred for Catholic's.

Having separate schools, and letting the kids from a very young age ask "why are my pals all split up and have to go different ways" doesnt help.....Of course this is not the cause, but the loosely enforced RCs one way and Prots another, surely baffles five year olds. Its archaic - mix the schools so kids of all persuasions grow up together not seeing any religious "difference" being of any consequence whatsoever. 

[BackOfTheNet]

15 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

Two separate things there, religion and whatever you deem flag shagging to be.

 

I'm saying the concept of organised religion is divisive and by its very existence drives people apart. In Scotland the existence of religious schools creates 'others' from a very early age, or from John's post that others don't even exist (I've never been to a religious school so can't comment on how common that is). People have been at war over religion for centuries and trying to spread their 'right' version to the world for millennia. So yes, I'm saying religion is the root cause (well, actually human nature, but that's well down the rabbit hole). Whilst it exists, then people will be divided and say mean things about the other ones.

 

Rank brainlessness and feeling a need to belong is what causes it to prevail in the 21st century.

 

Flags? No idea, I don't tend to associate them to religions (outside of Muslim countries with Islamic iconography but do appreciate there will be loads including crosses etc that are linked. I don't know enough about them).

Well the flags at our games are to promote unionism which is in large part tied to religion going back to the 1700’s. People can claim different, but that’s what they’re there for.

 

I actually agree with your point on religion being divisive on the whole. Having an us and them mentality be it religion, race, class etc is moronic at its core. It simply doesn’t make sense. That being said, having both sides of the family going to either catholic schools or “secular” schools (where you still have hymns on a Friday and visits to the church at the end of the year) as well as friends and family members who are Muslim, Jewish, orthodox, Jehovah’s witnesses, born agains, plus other diluted versions of several religions, I’m hesitant to say their existence or existence of the schools they went to promote hatred of any kind. As I know their religion, they know my atheist views, yet we all get along just fine and these things never get in the way of anything bar the occasional offer of alcohol or certain food types.

Edited November 29 by BackOfTheNet

[Costanza]

We walked into Delaneys on Wed night and thought "Nah" and ended up going to another boozer.

Partly because I'm an old git who doesn't like busy boozers but listening to the party songs isn't my idea of a good time. Dunno if it has got worse but does seem a completely different vibe to say when Hearts fans took over the Parliament bar in Bordeaux.

Didn't have a ticket for the game but doesn't sound like we missed much.

 

Ridding us of the mini hun element is the absolute number one non football change I want at Hearts and either board or Foundation level need to address it and not just a tannoy message pre match

 

[ctc]

Pathetic to here these saddo's who will mostly lead an atheist lifestyle singing about their hatred for the religion they wouldn't chose if they were religious.There is absolutely no doubt these same losers will be racist as well.They really are dragging our reputation into the gutter.Our club must condemn this behaviour and call them out for what they are.

[Deevers]

Religious bigotry has no place with us. Some of our greatest players have been Catholics. I don’t care what colour or creed a player is. If he’s wearing our strip and playing for this club that’s the important thing. If it’s ignorance and bigotry you want,  then head west.

[gordon simpson]

3 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Bigots.

This shouldn't really matter in this day and age, but alas it does to the braindead amongst us.

I am a Catholic, in that I was baptised a Catholic aged just Three months at Saint Margaret Mary's chapel Boswall Parkway 

In July 1963.

I attended the following schools in chronological order.

Royston Primary, Almond Bank primary Livingston, Dalmuir West primary, Dalmuir, Pirniehall primary, St Catherine's primary, St Peter's primary, and last but not least ST Thomas of Aquins Secondary.

As you can see I attended Four non-Catholic schools before I attended a Catholic school. My secondary school was interesting as for the four years I was there. We only had Eighty boys, of those Eighty boys at least Twenty of us were Heart of Midlothian supporters. That's Twenty Five percent of us. A whole one quarter of us at a Catholic school.

What did I learn at these schools.

I learned that Catholic and non-Catholics are no different to each other. We wear the same clothes, speak the same language, and use the same swear words. Eat the same food, and allegedly believe in the same God.

 

So to those of you in the Heart of Midlothian support who revel in singing being up to your knees in Fenian blood(which you mean Catholics) will you just do all us right thinking Heart of Midlothian supporters a favour and **** right off. 

You hate the IRA, guess what, so do I and unlike ninety nine percent of you, I went up against them. Ninety nine percent of you would shite your pants if you ever bumped into them.

Here's the thing I also hate the UDA. They are no different to the IRA terrorists just the same. 

I think I can speak for all right minded Heart of Midlothian supporters when I say. You are not wanted at Tynecastle, and you are not wanted at any football ground that The Heart of Midlothian at playing at.

So take yourselves and your pishy ditties/songs and **** right off.

You are not wanted, more to the point you are not needed.

here here ,the sad folks who sing that shit are just not wanted in our beautiful stadium 

[Armageddon]

One other thing that’s far from ideal is I’ve heard plenty folk tagging the Ultra’s under the problem, and for all the good work they’ve done then the idiot bigots appear on the scene and mark their copybook.

 

You always hear fans commenting on Celtic “What’s that flag got to do with Scottish football?”  But then what has religion and the IRA got to to do with our club and country?

 

To all the bigots, you are obsessed and if I was them I would be loving the fact they are in your head 24/7.

[martoon]

I wonder if any of those who do participate in sectarian songs and behaviour would be bold enough to start a thread defending their viewpoint.

 

Fat chance.

 

Far too cowardly when not with a group of their friends, pissed and coked up.

 

I'll bet none of them behave like that in their workplace/non fitba life, either. 

[TurboT]

I remember a game at Tannadice in around 2016 when a couple of guys started to sign "Hello Hello" and they were shot down with a number of Hearts supporters and told to 'f' off to Ibrox if they wanted to sing that rubbish.  I honestly thought that things were changing for the better.  Sadly, anytime we're at Easter Road or when Celtic come to town the bigots are out in force.  It needs addressed as there's no place for it in football. 

[Scott980612]

We don’t help ourselves when it comes to the “ diet huns” or “ cousins of William” crap 
infact an element of our fan base seem to lap it up.  
  
Bigotry exists in Scotland and will probably always exist in the west. 
 
It has no place at Tynecastle 
 

 
 

[Taffin]

3 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Well the flags at our games are to promote unionism which is in large part tied to religion going back to the 1700’s. People can claim different, but that’s what they’re there for.

 

I actually agree with your point on religion being decisive on the whole. Having an us and them mentality be it religion, race, class etc is moronic at its core. It simply doesn’t make sense. That being said, having both sides of the family going to either catholic schools or “secular” schools (where you still have hymns on a Friday and visits to the church at the end of the year) as well as friends and family members who are Muslim, Jewish, orthodox, Jehovah’s witnesses, born agains, plus other diluted versions of several religions, I’m hesitant to say their existence or existence of the schools they went to promote hatred of any kind. As I know their religion, they know my atheist views, yet we all get along just fine and these things never get in the way of anything bar the occasional offer of alcohol or certain food types.

 

I'm not saying they promote hatred per se and my relationships are much as you describe. They promote that people are different, or other, just by virtue of separating themselves and I don't think that's healthy. It creates the space for hatred, not necessarily the hatred itself. Some of it does teach that hatred though, it's an uncomfortable truth that religious texts do included passages that promote hatred and even advocate the removal of others.

 

If you described at face value the traditional tenets of Christianity (Catholic or other) and the things it's followers have done throughout the ages I'd say it's actually very hard to make a case that those opposed to it are the ones in the wrong. Whilst he didn't mention it, I'd imagine John was also taught that homosexuality was a sin.

 

Like John though, I've worn a Union flag on my uniform and as someone who's lived or has family from every UK nation I don't agree with the issues people have with the Union flag. I take your point about it's past but for me it's a political thing now rather than religious. I still believe and supported Scottish independence, I just don't have major beef with the UK as a concept but do with Westminster for example.

[Hmfc1965]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

That's not my point, my point is segregation of children based on religion fuels the type of nonsense we see at football. It's creates division and drives wedges between people. Young kids start to play up to it and it becomes embedded into their pysche. 

 

It is relevant as it's a large part of the original post, but I agree it shouldn't be relevant to football...but as long as it's relevant in society we'll see it at football.

 

Just look at this except from the OP -

"I learned that Catholic and non-Catholics are no different to each other. We wear the same clothes, speak the same language, and use the same swear words. Eat the same food, and allegedly believe in the same God."

 

No different? So why the existence and attendance of a different school? And then believe in the same God? That's no place in schools, that in itself is bigoted imo, it's almost an erasing of Muslims, Buddhists, atheist's and Hindus. In fact it's erasing most of the planet and suggesting there's a monoculture that's the right one.

There was a reason for it back in the day.

I'm pushing 60 and went to "non denominational" schools.

In practice,  certainly at Primary,  it was a Protestant school. Less so in Secondary school.

I don't think there's any need for them now. I've got friends who sent their kids to Catholic schools because they were the better option in the area.

One of the kids is actually a Rangers fan.

[Pasquale for King]

3 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Bigots.

This shouldn't really matter in this day and age, but alas it does to the braindead amongst us.

I am a Catholic, in that I was baptised a Catholic aged just Three months at Saint Margaret Mary's chapel Boswall Parkway 

In July 1963.

I attended the following schools in chronological order.

Royston Primary, Almond Bank primary Livingston, Dalmuir West primary, Dalmuir, Pirniehall primary, St Catherine's primary, St Peter's primary, and last but not least ST Thomas of Aquins Secondary.

As you can see I attended Four non-Catholic schools before I attended a Catholic school. My secondary school was interesting as for the four years I was there. We only had Eighty boys, of those Eighty boys at least Twenty of us were Heart of Midlothian supporters. That's Twenty Five percent of us. A whole one quarter of us at a Catholic school.

What did I learn at these schools.

I learned that Catholic and non-Catholics are no different to each other. We wear the same clothes, speak the same language, and use the same swear words. Eat the same food, and allegedly believe in the same God.

 

So to those of you in the Heart of Midlothian support who revel in singing being up to your knees in Fenian blood(which you mean Catholics) will you just do all us right thinking Heart of Midlothian supporters a favour and **** right off. 

You hate the IRA, guess what, so do I and unlike ninety nine percent of you, I went up against them. Ninety nine percent of you would shite your pants if you ever bumped into them.

Here's the thing I also hate the UDA. They are no different to the IRA terrorists just the same. 

I think I can speak for all right minded Heart of Midlothian supporters when I say. You are not wanted at Tynecastle, and you are not wanted at any football ground that The Heart of Midlothian at playing at.

So take yourselves and your pishy ditties/songs and **** right off.

You are not wanted, more to the point you are not needed.

Great post 👍🏽👏🏾

[dsk1210]

They do it knowing that it winds up most of the supporters of the club they claim to support!

 

Vermin.

[south morocco]

3 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Bigots.

This shouldn't really matter in this day and age, but alas it does to the braindead amongst us.

I am a Catholic, in that I was baptised a Catholic aged just Three months at Saint Margaret Mary's chapel Boswall Parkway 

In July 1963.

I attended the following schools in chronological order.

Royston Primary, Almond Bank primary Livingston, Dalmuir West primary, Dalmuir, Pirniehall primary, St Catherine's primary, St Peter's primary, and last but not least ST Thomas of Aquins Secondary.

As you can see I attended Four non-Catholic schools before I attended a Catholic school. My secondary school was interesting as for the four years I was there. We only had Eighty boys, of those Eighty boys at least Twenty of us were Heart of Midlothian supporters. That's Twenty Five percent of us. A whole one quarter of us at a Catholic school.

What did I learn at these schools.

I learned that Catholic and non-Catholics are no different to each other. We wear the same clothes, speak the same language, and use the same swear words. Eat the same food, and allegedly believe in the same God.

 

So to those of you in the Heart of Midlothian support who revel in singing being up to your knees in Fenian blood(which you mean Catholics) will you just do all us right thinking Heart of Midlothian supporters a favour and **** right off. 

You hate the IRA, guess what, so do I and unlike ninety nine percent of you, I went up against them. Ninety nine percent of you would shite your pants if you ever bumped into them.

Here's the thing I also hate the UDA. They are no different to the IRA terrorists just the same. 

I think I can speak for all right minded Heart of Midlothian supporters when I say. You are not wanted at Tynecastle, and you are not wanted at any football ground that The Heart of Midlothian at playing at.

So take yourselves and your pishy ditties/songs and **** right off.

You are not wanted, more to the point you are not needed.

Well said John 

[BackOfTheNet]

16 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

I'm not saying they promote hatred per se and my relationships are much as you describe. They promote that people are different, or other, just by virtue of separating themselves and I don't think that's healthy. It creates the space for hatred, not necessarily the hatred itself. Some of it does teach that hatred though, it's an uncomfortable truth that religious texts do included passages that promote hatred and even advocate the removal of others.

 

If you described at face value the traditional tenets of Christianity (Catholic or other) and the things it's followers have done throughout the ages I'd say it's actually very hard to make a case that those opposed to it are the ones in the wrong. Whilst he didn't mention it, I'd imagine John was also taught that homosexuality was a sin.

 

Like John though, I've worn a Union flag on my uniform and as someone who's lived or has family from every UK nation I don't agree with the issues people have with the Union flag. I take your point about it's past but for me it's a political thing now rather than religious. I still believe and supported Scottish independence, I just don't have major beef with the UK as a concept but do with Westminster for example.

I’m not saying all folk should associate the British flag with unionism tied to the 1700’s, I’m sure many associate it with general Britishness or Olympics or like your own experience. But there’s no reason to bring a flag to a football match, unless it’s a flag that has the club crest, or maybe to show support for certain players. Like we’ve seen Aussie flags or Czech or Lithuanian flags like in the past. If someone breaks a Costa Rican flag out now no one bats an eye, because it’s obvious why that’s there.

But at a Scottish football match supporting a Scottish football team (as there’s no such thing as a British football team outside the 2012 Olympics) then having the UK flag there doesn’t make any sense in the context of football. So as you say it’s political because of the unionist/independence climate we’re in and have been in the last decade or so. But that in itself is tied back to 1707, which was in itself about religion.  Bonnie Prince Charlie and Culloden and all that a few decades later. Not saying the coke headed teenagers holding the flag their lonely alcoholic uncles spent so much time and money putting together are clued up on this. But they’re singing hatred along with it at any rate.

Edited November 29 by BackOfTheNet

[lou]

35 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

And I bet they have friends and work colleagues ( who they will get along with no problem ) who are Catholics.Its ****ing mental 

Yeah, they do because they think it's funny and it will get them attention, all a wee bit needy.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

I have challenged these morons face-to-face on more than one occasion. I think Hearts have (or had) a telephone number where incidents can be reported, and it would be a good idea to have it manned during games so that police or stewards can be sent to witness or stop it at source. These knuckledraggers bring shame on our club, and indefinite bans for perpetrators would stop it.

Definitely, we could report some clueless idiot putting a photo of a UDA terrorist on the big screens for example.

[Pasquale for King]

I think the whole club is a bit too chummy with Rangers, far too many of their fans around the club. 

[The new West End]

20 minutes ago, martoon said:

I wonder if any of those who do participate in sectarian songs and behaviour would be bold enough to start a thread defending their viewpoint.

 

Fat chance.

 

Far too cowardly when not with a group of their friends, pissed and coked up.

 

I'll bet none of them behave like that in their workplace/non fitba life, either. 

 

Fair shout but I think most if not all are banned from JKB

 

[John Findlay]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

What other than the part where they were indoctrinated to believe this:

 

"I learned that Catholic and non-Catholics are no different to each other. We wear the same clothes, speak the same language, and use the same swear words. Eat the same food, and allegedly believe in the same God"

 

That's a wild thing to be taught when you think about it. All non-catholics wear the same clothes, spoke the same language, ate the same food and believed in the same God as those in that classroom?

 

WOW! That in itself is bigoted and a trait that I'm not surprised others might rail against.

 

Asians? Who?

Africans? Who?

Indigenous peoples? Who?

 

No wonder missionaries wrecked the world with that mindset

 

The school didn't teach me that.

I learned that for myself. I learned. Not that we were taught.

Note the difference.

[martoon]

2 minutes ago, The new West End said:

 

Fair shout but I think most if not all are banned from JKB

 

 

👍