Can we just have some perspective please?

[BervieJambo]

11 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

For me they're not a good rangers team but we always make them look decent, as usual plenty crap talk before the game but it's action on the pitch we need against them instead of shiting the bed every time

In that case, which Hearts players would get into the Rangers lineup? Kent ahead of Balogun? Maybe…

Shankland over Dessers? Not by yesterday’s performance… 

Anyone else? Not a chance.

We made errors, yes, but certainly didn’t “shite the bed”.

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Absolutely wrong. Know folk maybe defend him as a young well liked prospect. But I treat players as equals. It’s not about his position, but it’s his awareness of where his defenders and team mates were positioned. They hadnt pushed all the way up yet, they needed more time. The ball should’ve been straight out to full back or back to CB. Lose the ball in the middle in that situation and the defence is totally exposed and backpedaling. On 80 mins, 1-0

down that was a moment for safety and secure possession because of the consequences of the risk. The lad risked allowing rangers to kill the game which is exactly what happened.

Thats such a negative way to look at it, we are trying to score and equaliser in a semi final ffs. Those defenders were too deep, their fault not his, but one of them or the strolling Beni should’ve fouled Cantwell. 

[AlimOzturk]

Genuinely think even if Shankland goes we are going to be a stronger squad next season. 

[AlimOzturk]

1 minute ago, BervieJambo said:

In that case, which Hearts players would get into the Rangers lineup? Kent ahead of Balogun? Maybe…

Shankland over Dessers? Not by yesterday’s performance… 

Anyone else? Not a chance.

We made errors, yes, but certainly didn’t “shite the bed”.

This is it. Taking the maroon sunglasses off, there isn’t a player at hearts which would be a guaranteed starter every week for rangers. Even Shankland wouldn’t be guaranteed 1st pick. 
 

Doesn't excuse the performance yesterday though it does somewhat go to explaining how hard it is to compete with the gruesome twosome

and their resources. 

[AC Mallin_51]

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, BervieJambo said:

In that case, which Hearts players would get into the Rangers lineup? Kent ahead of Balogun? Maybe…

Shankland over Dessers? Not by yesterday’s performance… 

Anyone else? Not a chance.

We made errors, yes, but certainly didn’t “shite the bed”.

Look we'll have to agree to disagree here because for me we done the usual against them and ended up with usual result , for me a think it's a mentality thing when we play them because we beat celtic twice this season and more often than not even when losing to celtic give them a good game

[soonbe110]

3 hours ago, Carter said:

This is the part that worries me. I'm just not sure that is going to happen. The wage bill level feels as though it's towards the optimum level we can reach. As I watched that yesterday I thought about whether any of the 3 boys we've signed on PCA's would've made any difference to that game. Maybe Dhanda but I'm not sure. 

 

Yesterday highlighted the areas where we are really short of quality. Midfield is a big area of concern. As is RB. 

And another goal scorer to take weight of Shankland. None of Oda, Vargas, or Tagawa look like they have a lot of goals in them to me. 

[BervieJambo]

6 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

What I will say is this season there's been far far more positives than negatives and plenty to build on going forward 

 

1 minute ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Look we'll have to agree to disagree here because for me we done the usual against them and ended up with usual result , for me a think it's a mentality thing when we play them because we beat celtic twice this season and more often than not even when losing to celtic give them a good game

We’re a work in progress. The positives we’ve seen this season will get us closer to better results against both arse cheeks going forward. You also often have to get a bit of luck in these matches (which we did in the last win against Celtic - though it wasn’t undeserved) - we haven’t had any such breaks against Rangers this season. I don’t believe it’s mentality, just naivety and it swings both ways against either of them.

[Jarhead]

4 minutes ago, BervieJambo said:

Can we knock one thing on the head here - this is not a “very poor rangers team”. Yes, they have had a couple of poor results recently and yes, they aren’t as good as they were in the 1990s, but they are still in with a chance of the treble and reached the latter stages of the UEFA cup. Man-for-man they have better players in almost every position compared to us.

 

Yesterday, we performed well in patches, but showed naivety and poor decision making both on the pitch and from the management. Both have improved considerably over the season, but we’re nowhere near the finished article yet. Keep on improving at the same rate and we will have something to celebrate.

Spot on. 
Granted this may not be a vintage Rangers team but some people really need to go and have a proper look at the league table. 
With 5 games to go they are in with a real shout of winning the league. 
I dream of the days when we are as shite as this Rangers team. 
 

All we can do is try and get European group stage football for several years in a row. Only then will we start to have the money required to compete. 

[Fozzyonthefence]

29 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Absolutely wrong. Know folk maybe defend him as a young well liked prospect. But I treat players as equals. It’s not about his position, but it’s his awareness of where his defenders and team mates were positioned. They hadnt pushed all the way up yet, they needed more time. The ball should’ve been straight out to full back or back to CB. Lose the ball in the middle in that situation and the defence is totally exposed and backpedaling. On 80 mins, 1-0

down that was a moment for safety and secure possession because of the consequences of the risk. The lad risked allowing rangers to kill the game which is exactly what happened.

Are you seriously having a go at an 18 year old kid for taking a risk at 1-0 down after nearly 80 minutes?  The safety first attitude you seem to be favouring is exactly why were losing and barely laid a glove on them.  At some point when you’re losing a semi final you have take risks.  At least Tait had the balls to do that unlike his more senior teammates.  And in any case the goal was preventable even after he lost possession. 

[PapaShango]

1 minute ago, Jarhead said:

Spot on. 
Granted this may not be a vintage Rangers team but some people really need to go and have a proper look at the league table. 
With 5 games to go they are in with a real shout of winning the league. 
I dream of the days when we are as shite as this Rangers team. 
 

All we can do is try and get European group stage football for several years in a row. Only then will we start to have the money required to compete. 

Yeah absolutely the wheels have fell off them the last few weeks but they are still a decent side. I felt the game was there for the taking yesterday with a bit more composure in the final third. We can’t give up goals like that either the first one is criminal. Rowles just far too soft in the 50/50. Probably is 60/40 in his favour and he makes a mess of it.

[jimbojambo]

Yes with perspective we have made significant progress this season and appear to have signed well for the season to come. It's hard to argue third place and two semi finals isn't an excellent season and hopefully we can end it in style over the next five games. 

[Rods]

2 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Are you seriously having a go at an 18 year old kid for taking a risk at 1-0 down after nearly 80 minutes?  The safety first attitude you seem to be favouring is exactly why were losing and barely laid a glove on them.  At some point when you’re losing a semi final you have take risks.  At least Tait had the balls to do that unlike his more senior teammates.  And in any case the goal was preventable even after he lost possession. 

 

The highlighted point is the crux of the matter. Weak in the tackle, standing off and in Beni's case not even trying all contributed to the 2nd goal. Tait lost it in his own half ffs it should have been prevented no worries after he lost the ball. 

 

Watch Beni from 5.24 to the goal to me that is disgraceful from a holding midfielders and an experienced member of the team. That is simply not acceptable play in a semi final but thats him all over. 

 

 

[TexasAndy]

To be fair there's plenty perspective floating about and everyone knows where we are as a club and as a team.  It's just raw in the immediate aftermath of yesterday and will probably feel that way until kick off at Kilmarnock.  There are a few players getting a kicking and a general criticism of our inability to compete physically with Rangers but at least we are not seeing the threads of old calling for mass sackings, executions etc.  For me that proves everyone knows we are on the right track albeit a long way to go.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

13 minutes ago, BervieJambo said:

 

We’re a work in progress. The positives we’ve seen this season will get us closer to better results against both arse cheeks going forward. You also often have to get a bit of luck in these matches (which we did in the last win against Celtic - though it wasn’t undeserved) - we haven’t had any such breaks against Rangers this season. I don’t believe it’s mentality, just naivety and it swings both ways against either of them.

Not denying there's been far more positives this season than negatives , it's been a good season off course it has and there's absolutely plenty to build on

[Hackney Hearts]

1 hour ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Aberdeen and Coventry had a right go that weekend as underdogs we went out the cup without much of a fight against a very poor rangers team btw that didn't even need to get out 2nd gear

 

Coventry had a lot of breaks that we didn't get tbf. Their first looked great as it was swept in by Simms, but it actually came off his knee/shin! The second was an absurdly looping deflection from a speculative shot and the third was a handball penalty. Admittedly they were unlucky with the marginal offside right at the death, but they would never have got that far without a huge helping hand from Lady Luck.

 

Rangers would have had to get out of 2nd gear if we'd got an equaliser (we really should have) - but would they have been able to? I'm not so sure given their recent form. 

Edited April 22 by Hackney Hearts

[Pasquale for King]

26 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

This is it. Taking the maroon sunglasses off, there isn’t a player at hearts which would be a guaranteed starter every week for rangers. Even Shankland wouldn’t be guaranteed 1st pick. 
 

Doesn't excuse the performance yesterday though it does somewhat go to explaining how hard it is to compete with the gruesome twosome

and their resources. 

Are any of the Ross County, Dundee or St Mirren next weekend likely to get in the Rangers team? Theres a way to play them, we haven’t worked it out yet. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Coventry had a lot of breaks that we didn't get tbf. Their first looked great as it was swept in by Simms, but it actually came off his knee/shin! The second was an absurdly looping deflection from a speculative shot and the third was a handball penalty. Admittedly they were unlucky with the marginal offside right at the death, but they would never have got that far without a huge helping hand from Lady Luck.

 

Rangers would have had to get out of 2nd gear if we'd got an equaliser (we really should have) - but would they have been able to? I'm not so sure given their recent form. 

Man U had a deflected goal and the tightest of all offsides in their favour, Coventry weren’t lucky on those two occasions. 
We didn’t carry any luck at all yesterday.

[Jeff]

Perspective is all well and good when playing the Old Firm when they actually show up. If Celtic and Rangers play their best, they blow everyone in the country out the water at a canter - fine.

 

They were rotten yesterday and we still didn't look near good enough. Terrible decision making seemed to be my big take from it... that and how lightweight Oda is

[A_A wehatethehibs]

37 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Thats such a negative way to look at it, we are trying to score and equaliser in a semi final ffs. Those defenders were too deep, their fault not his, but one of them or the strolling Beni should’ve fouled Cantwell. 

It’s nobody’s fecking fault that the defenders were too deep, they were making their way up. The defenders don’t sprint up to the halfway line at full tilt when you’re building gradual possession. It was Taits decision to take the second risk once crossed the halfway line. 2 Gers players in front of him nobody around him. That was the moment for a calm heads to put his foot on the ball, out wide for another phase, allowing the teammates to step forward. He was not aware of how deep the defenders still were. There was 10 mins to go and plenty of time, we were still well in the game. 
 

22 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Are you seriously having a go at an 18 year old kid for taking a risk at 1-0 down after nearly 80 minutes?  The safety first attitude you seem to be favouring is exactly why were losing and barely laid a glove on them.  At some point when you’re losing a semi final you have take risks.  At least Tait had the balls to do that unlike his more senior teammates.  And in any case the goal was preventable even after he lost possession. 

 

As I said in the post, I treat players as equals. Don’t give a toss if he’s 18 or 28, i treat the player as an equal and judge the play as an equal. I show him the Respect of

judging him as any first team player. For that goal, he was for me, 100% culpable for giving away possession in a scenario where his team mates needed more time to build. He went forward before his team mates were in position. 

 

Risk is all about, what’s the reward, vs what’s the consequences. It’s a calculation. He miscalculated and gifted Rangers the chance to kill a game which, we were 1-0 down, building momentum and still well well in the game. 2-0 it’s dead. But as I said in the post he will learn a big lesson from it. That’s first team football. Unfortunately his inexperience got punished on the big stage. 

Edited April 22 by A_A wehatethehibs

[Dazo]

Are people really using shit teams as some sort of example of how we should play ? 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

3 minutes ago, Dazo said:

Are people really using shit teams as some sort of example of how we should play ? 

Well if you're saying Ross County and Dundee are shit team then they showed how to get a result against Rangers over the last week 

[Spellczech]

Problem is that we never even laid a glove upon them - yet again...

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 hours ago, buzzbomb1958 said:

Not with this team as it is ,There are at least 8 players who should be got rid of and upgraded there should be no excuses. We will take in over 6 million for Europe, so there is no reason why we cannot upgrade the team 

 

Absolutely fantastic strategy for getting us back to the bottom of the table. Keep turning the squad over every season because we're not Pep's City, let no players settle and improve. Cathro was a genius, let's get back to doing that.

[Hackney Hearts]

4 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Risk is all about, what’s the reward, vs what’s the consequences. It’s a calculation. He miscalculated and gifted Rangers the chance to kill a game which, we were 1-0 down, building momentum and still well well in the game. 2-0 it’s dead. 

 

You shouldn't really assume you're definitely losing a goal if you lose possession in the opposition half!

[Dazo]

3 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Well if you're saying Ross County and Dundee are shit team then they showed how to get a result against Rangers over the last week 

So what they are ****ing miles behind us. One off games prove nothing. When they start skooshing 3rd and getting to Hampden regularly get back to me. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

4 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Well if you're saying Ross County and Dundee are shit team then they showed how to get a result against Rangers over the last week 

There was nothing wrong with our approach. Rangers looked shit all day long.

 

Our problem was two bad mistakes and poor finishing. That's not tactics.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, Watt-Zeefuik said:

There was nothing wrong with our approach. Rangers looked shit all day long.

 

Our problem was two bad mistakes and poor finishing. That's not tactics.

I've never mentioned tactics, I was happy with team selection and set up yesterday ! For me the players done the usual shit the bed against them

[Dazo]

Just now, Watt-Zeefuik said:

There was nothing wrong with our approach. Rangers looked shit all day long.

 

Our problem was two bad mistakes and poor finishing. That's not tactics.

Correct, the tactics worked but we needed all our players on n top of their game. Mistakes and poor performance cost us far more than the tactics did. 

[Hackney Hearts]

4 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Well if you're saying Ross County and Dundee are shit team then they showed how to get a result against Rangers over the last week 

 

And that's football. They might not do it again for another 20 years.

 

(just like we might not get back to back wins over Celtic for another 20 years!)

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

So what they are ****ing miles behind us. One off games prove nothing. When they start skooshing 3rd and getting to Hampden regularly get back to me. 

One off games against Rangers prove we shit it 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

I've never mentioned tactics, I was happy with team selection and set up yesterday ! For me the players done the usual shit the bed against them

 

Fair enough. Lots of posts on here and lots of talk about "how to approach the game," which to me means shape and tactics. I inferred that as what you were saying, my mistake.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, Hackney Hearts said:

 

You shouldn't really assume you're definitely losing a goal if you lose possession in the opposition half!

Read the post again and understand what I’m saying. It was his lack of awareness of where his team mates were positioned and therefore, the consequences of losing the ball. He busted over the halfway line at which point, he needs a calm head. Isolated in enemy territory. But unfortunately instead he just absurdly tried to beat 2 Rangers midfielders instead. Wrong decision, bad risk to be taking, very bad consequences which killed the game 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

Fair enough. Lots of posts on here and lots of talk about "how to approach the game," which to me means shape and tactics. I inferred that as what you were saying, my mistake.

No not at all , yesterday on the players for me 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

Correct, the tactics worked but we needed all our players on n top of their game. Mistakes and poor performance cost us far more than the tactics did. 

 

Indeed. This was a very different loss than some others this season, much closer to the game where we lost two goals late to lose a lead than to the 5-0 where we were overrun from the start.

[Dazo]

Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

One off games against Rangers prove we shit it 

Unfortunately that kind of environment can cause players to bottle it and perform poorly. That’s the market we shop in. The teams you mentioned weren’t at Hampden to show us how it’s done. 

[Hackney Hearts]

Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

One off games against Rangers prove we shit it 

 

Somebody's going to have to define this. Does it mean we were scared? We didn't look scared to me, we had plenty of intent, just didn't do the crucial things right.

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, Dazo said:

Unfortunately that kind of environment can cause players to bottle it and perform poorly. That’s the market we shop in. The teams you mentioned weren’t at Hampden to show us how it’s done. 

That's all I've said ! In the grand scheme of things securing 3rd place in the league and the rewards that go with that still makes it a successful season and loads to build on

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Just now, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Somebody's going to have to define this. Does it mean we were scared? We didn't look scared to me, we had plenty of intent, just didn't do the crucial things right.

Just look at our record and performances over years against rangers with the exception of losing at ibrox earlier this season where we were very very unlucky

[Nelly Terraces]

57 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

That’s the spirit. If I took than stance after every Hearts loss I would have chucked it years ago. 

You obviously have far less interests in your life than I do mate. I know that will seem incredible to someone like yourself, but a lot of other people have other things they enjoy doing than watching Hearts at the weekend. 

[Dazo]

1 minute ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

That's all I've said ! In the grand scheme of things securing 3rd place in the league and the rewards that go with that still makes it a successful season and loads to build on

I know mate I just don’t think you can compare playing Rangers in a semi final at Hampden to playing on a ploughed field at dens park on a Wednesday night. 

[PapaShango]

2 minutes ago, Nelly Terraces said:

You obviously have far less interests in your life than I do mate. I know that will seem incredible to someone like yourself, but a lot of other people have other things they enjoy doing than watching Hearts at the weekend. 

Yeah because we get to Hampden every weekend. Away and slaver somewhere else Hearts don’t need folk like you supporting them anyways. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 minute ago, Dazo said:

I know mate I just don’t think you can compare playing Rangers in a semi final at Hampden to playing on a ploughed field at dens park on a Wednesday night. 

That's a very fair and reasonable point like , can't disagree their is a difference 

[Hackney Hearts]

Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Just look at our record and performances over years against rangers with the exception of losing at ibrox earlier this season where we were very very unlucky

 

I know the record, and that may be down to Rangers having more money and better players - apart from 2014-2020. But the games have all been quite different - for instance I thought we put far more into yesterday's game than we did into the 2022 Final which was 0-0 after 90 mins. And as you say, the game at Ibrox was very unlucky (and swung by VAR).

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

2 minutes ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

I know the record, and that may be down to Rangers having more money and better players - apart from 2014-2020. But the games have all been quite different - for instance I thought we put far more into yesterday's game than we did into the 2022 Final which was 0-0 after 90 mins. And as you say, the game at Ibrox was very unlucky (and swung by VAR).

Celtic have got more money and better players but we've beaten them twice this season and also give them a far better game more often than not even when we lose against them ! There just seems to be some mental block against rangers for some unknown reason 

[Pasquale for King]

28 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

It’s nobody’s fecking fault that the defenders were too deep, they were making their way up. The defenders don’t sprint up to the halfway line at full tilt when you’re building gradual possession. It was Taits decision to take the second risk once crossed the halfway line. 2 Gers players in front of him nobody around him. That was the moment for a calm heads to put his foot on the ball, out wide for another phase, allowing the teammates to step forward. He was not aware of how deep the defenders still were. There was 10 mins to go and plenty of time, we were still well in the game. 
 

 

As I said in the post, I treat players as equals. Don’t give a toss if he’s 18 or 28, i treat the player as an equal and judge the play as an equal. I show him the Respect of

judging him as any first team player. For that goal, he was for me, 100% culpable for giving away possession in a scenario where his team mates needed more time to build. He went forward before his team mates were in position. 

 

Risk is all about, what’s the reward, vs what’s the consequences. It’s a calculation. He miscalculated and gifted Rangers the chance to kill a game which, we were 1-0 down, building momentum and still well well in the game. 2-0 it’s dead. But as I said in the post he will learn a big lesson from it. That’s first team football. Unfortunately his inexperience got punished on the big stage. 

There was no need for them both to be so deep ffs, and there was nobody square to play the ball to. 
We needed a goal and the youngster was doing the right thing, unlike the more experienced players around him. The manager demands that the midfielders go forward with the ball at all times, take it up with him.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Celtic have got more money and better players but we've beaten them twice this season and also give them a far better game more often than not even when we lose against them ! There just seems to be some mental block against rangers for some unknown reason 

That’s nothing new though, why we try harder against Celtic than Rangers is a mystery, or is there an obvious reason?

[Dazo]

5 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

That's a very fair and reasonable point like , can't disagree their is a difference 

I would also add and I know some people can’t see or accept it but money makes a huge difference not just in ability but also in mentality and handling big game pressure. This inferior Rangers team already have one cup in the bag. Personally thought we handle them okay, both goals were from big mistakes. Even with that in mind if Shanks and Vargas turned up it’s a different result. 

[Hackney Hearts]

2 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Celtic have got more money and better players but we've beaten them twice this season and also give them a far better game more often than not even when we lose against them ! There just seems to be some mental block against rangers for some unknown reason 

 

If we can achieve one thing post-split, let's see if we can win our final game and get rid of the block!

[Brauhauser2012]

We're improving as a club. We finished building out the stand, paying off the debt and now the money will go into the team while those things continue to generate more revenue. We're fan owned. Things are stabilising. We even improved our away record and that mentality about places being difficult to go to etc. Yeah I was disappointed and I hate Hampden / Glasgow, such a sinkhole, but seen us do worse.