***official Kilmarnock vs. Heart of Midlothian match day thread***

[King prawn]

33 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

I’d say if only Vargas had squared it instead of hit it. Grant had an open net.

Was the square on? I saw Grant raging at the time but thought it was easier to score than try to thread it through 2 defenders 

[Shaggy2]

8 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Completely different challenges in that clip - Wright is only looking at the ball albeit he’s late and the other is focused on the player and very late. 
 

Id be raging if Kent had been sent off for the same yesterday 

The Motherwell player actually got the ball! 
Wright has no idea where Shankland is, but he knows he’s around because they’ve literally just challenged for the ball. He boots him in the chest, FFS. It’s high, reckless and dangerous. The referee has probably let him off with a yellow due to lack of intent, which isn’t in the laws of the game. 
I don’t want honest challenges punished but you can’t just take wild, blind swipes with your boot above waist height these days. 

[Shaggy2]

48 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Completely different challenges in that clip - Wright is only looking at the ball albeit he’s late and the other is focused on the player and very late. 
 

Id be raging if Kent had been sent off for the same yesterday 

Sorry to quote you again, I'm not looking for an argument! 😉

Not sure if you were there yesterday but Wright's challenge looked awful at the game. Nowhere near the ball and caught Shankland right at the bottom of the rib cage. 

[ArcticJambo]

3 minutes ago, Shaggy2 said:

Sorry to quote you again, I'm not looking for an argument! 😉

Not sure if you were there yesterday but Wright's challenge looked awful at the game. Nowhere near the ball and caught Shankland right at the bottom of the rib cage. 

 

I thought it was actually just below the throat but my son said chest. The contact made a good noise, irrespective. 😮

[Shaggy2]

1 minute ago, ArcticJambo said:

 

I thought it was actually just below the throat but my son said chest. The contact made a good noise, irrespective. 😮

Looked to me like it was bang in the middle of his crest and the umbro. Like I say, until the word intent (or lack of intent) is incorporated into the laws that could easily be a red. Since there's no way for a ref to judge intent he shouldn't be lenient.

[colinmaroon]

10 hours ago, Cranston said:

Beni looked isolated at times in the midfield, but held his own admirably. Was disappointed to see him go off. Probably would have won the game if he'd stayed on, as he was the main midfield anchor. 

Cammy was great but was box to box, leaving Beni alone.  Grant started well but wasn't integral to the midfield engine room. 

 

 

[King prawn]

1 hour ago, Shaggy2 said:

Sorry to quote you again, I'm not looking for an argument! 😉

Not sure if you were there yesterday but Wright's challenge looked awful at the game. Nowhere near the ball and caught Shankland right at the bottom of the rib cage. 

No worries - I wasn’t at the game, only saw it on Hearts TV but looking at the replay and if it were Kent? I’d be absolutely furious if he’d been sent off. It’s a yellow for me

[PortyBeach]

3 hours ago, Shaggy2 said:

https://x.com/PansHearts/status/1784447142599238003

 

How are these challenges not punished exactly the same? I don't like the way the laws are implemented in the modern game at times but if the law is, as I'm led to believe after Yang's red at Tynecastle, that dangerous play above the waist is a red card the can Joe Wright consider himself fortunate?

The challenges certainly look similar. 
Another poster suggested the Killie player wasn’t looking, which if so, might suggest the challenge is “reckless” - which is a yellow card offence.

Similarly, I thought Yang was already stretching for, and focussed on, the ball just before Cochrane made his challenge. It seemed to me therefore that the match referee’s yellow card decision was correct.

The referee was subsequently persuaded by VAR Beaton - whose motivation is no secret - to upgrade the decision to red.

It’s easy to make a case for any raised boot to be considered “dangerous” - and therefore a red card offence.
 

[Randy Marsh]

7 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

The challenges certainly look similar. 
Another poster suggested the Killie player wasn’t looking, which if so, might suggest the challenge is “reckless” - which is a yellow card offence.

Similarly, I thought Yang was already stretching for, and focussed on, the ball just before Cochrane made his challenge. It seemed to me therefore that the match referee’s yellow card decision was correct.

The referee was subsequently persuaded by VAR Beaton - whose motivation is no secret - to upgrade the decision to red.

It’s easy to make a case for any raised boot to be considered “dangerous” - and therefore a red card offence.
 

About time the mods launched you.  Just a typical Celtic supporting windbag you are.😂

[Mikey1874]

13 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

The challenges certainly look similar. 
Another poster suggested the Killie player wasn’t looking, which if so, might suggest the challenge is “reckless” - which is a yellow card offence.

Similarly, I thought Yang was already stretching for, and focussed on, the ball just before Cochrane made his challenge. It seemed to me therefore that the match referee’s yellow card decision was correct.

The referee was subsequently persuaded by VAR Beaton - whose motivation is no secret - to upgrade the decision to red.

It’s easy to make a case for any raised boot to be considered “dangerous” - and therefore a red card offence.
 

 

Kicking the head is the difference. Killie foul yesterday was a yellow. 

[Shaggy2]

45 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Kicking the head is the difference. Killie foul yesterday was a yellow. 

I was sure I'd read that above the waist was deemed dangerous now. How would we have felt if Shankland had a rib broken and out for the remainder of the season? 

 

Killie have gotten away with a couple now. Still haven't forgotten their goalie's thigh high assault on Oda. 

[PortyBeach]

41 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

About time the mods launched you.  Just a typical Celtic supporting windbag you are.😂

I might have a few less worry-lines if I was a Celtic fan, certainly. 🤭

I get that it might be uncomfortable for some to dwell on. But you don’t have to be an arch-conspiracy theorist not to join up the dots and conclude that Beaton’s motivation in changing the ref’s mind to upgrade to a red card that day was to help The Rangers.

[Hackney Hearts]

4 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

But you don’t have to be an arch-conspiracy theorist not to join up the dots and conclude that Beaton’s motivation in changing the ref’s mind to upgrade to a red card that day was to help The Rangers.

 

Could well be. But whatever his motivation, he was right.

[davemclaren]

38 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

I might have a few less worry-lines if I was a Celtic fan, certainly. 🤭

I get that it might be uncomfortable for some to dwell on. But you don’t have to be an arch-conspiracy theorist not to join up the dots and conclude that Beaton’s motivation in changing the ref’s mind to upgrade to a red card that day was to help The Rangers.

Or the fact that his boot was head high and made contact. 

[HMFC 86]

1 hour ago, Randy Marsh said:

About time the mods launched you.  Just a typical Celtic supporting windbag you are.😂

Absolutely correct he is defo a sellik supporter. Empty him

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

I watched the game yesterday in the back of a car. Volume down so nothing to influence my thoughts.

We were ok going forward but decision making in and around the box needs some serious work.

Defense did ok. Still the odd brain fart that puts us under the cosh for longer than needed. Nothing wrong with clearing your lines now and again and taking a breath. Kent frustrates me in the opponents box.

We’ll never drastically improve with Grant, Forrest type players. Forrest just runs fast in a straight line. Grant is way too slow and slows so many attacks down. Tait made the same mistake as last Sunday at least twice. Caught in possession. Still young, should improve. Denholm should be showing much more improvement than he does. Devlin has finally changed his game (coaching) Now he gets in to the box with late runs. With his hustle and speed that can only be a good thing. Shankland was forcing it yesterday. You can tell he’s frustrated with team mates. Vargas will get better with good coaching and decision making. As stated last week, our throw ins are criminal.

Lembikisa could be a good player but needs serious defensive coaching. Goes for the first move every time made and then allows crosses in to the box. 
I could go on but my wife says we’re going out for breakfast.

Rant over.

 

 

 

 

[PortyBeach]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

Or the fact that his boot was head high and made contact. 

We’ve seen with other examples that a high boot doesn’t automatically attract a dismissal. 
Contact with someone’s head is always emotive. In the case in point, it didn’t look to me as if there was much, if any, forward momentum from Yang that could be definitely construed as dangerous play and therefore merit a red card. We might also consider which player did more to instigate the contact.

My views on the incident aren’t about being pro-Celtic. My concern is the blatant attempt to assist The Rangers and the fact it occurred during a Hearts match. This is something we should all be concerned about, surely?
 

[davemclaren]

9 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

We’ve seen with other examples that a high boot doesn’t automatically attract a dismissal. 
Contact with someone’s head is always emotive. In the case in point, it didn’t look to me as if there was much, if any, forward momentum from Yang that could be definitely construed as dangerous play and therefore merit a red card. We might also consider which player did more to instigate the contact.

My views on the incident aren’t about being pro-Celtic. My concern is the blatant attempt to assist The Rangers and the fact it occurred during a Hearts match. This is something we should all be concerned about, surely?
 

I was only happy it helped Hearts. Sod Rangers...and Celtic.  

[Gorgierools]

2 hours ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

I watched the game yesterday in the back of a car. Volume down so nothing to influence my thoughts.

We were ok going forward but decision making in and around the box needs some serious work.

Defense did ok. Still the odd brain fart that puts us under the cosh for longer than needed. Nothing wrong with clearing your lines now and again and taking a breath. Kent frustrates me in the opponents box.

We’ll never drastically improve with Grant, Forrest type players. Forrest just runs fast in a straight line. Grant is way too slow and slows so many attacks down. Tait made the same mistake as last Sunday at least twice. Caught in possession. Still young, should improve. Denholm should be showing much more improvement than he does. Devlin has finally changed his game (coaching) Now he gets in to the box with late runs. With his hustle and speed that can only be a good thing. Shankland was forcing it yesterday. You can tell he’s frustrated with team mates. Vargas will get better with good coaching and decision making. As stated last week, our throw ins are criminal.

Lembikisa could be a good player but needs serious defensive coaching. Goes for the first move every time made and then allows crosses in to the box. 
I could go on but my wife says we’re going out for breakfast.

Rant over.

 

 

 

 

Tbf, she does a lovely breakfast 😁😁😁

[Cranston]

6 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

Cammy was great but was box to box, leaving Beni alone.  Grant started well but wasn't integral to the midfield engine room. 

 

 

👍

 

It worked very well, with Beni doing the donkey work mostly excellently, and would probably have went on to win the game if Beni hadn't taken unwell. Hope he stays, as he's a warrior in the middle of the park.

[GinRummy]

3 hours ago, PortyBeach said:

We’ve seen with other examples that a high boot doesn’t automatically attract a dismissal. 
Contact with someone’s head is always emotive. In the case in point, it didn’t look to me as if there was much, if any, forward momentum from Yang that could be definitely construed as dangerous play and therefore merit a red card. We might also consider which player did more to instigate the contact.

My views on the incident aren’t about being pro-Celtic. My concern is the blatant attempt to assist The Rangers and the fact it occurred during a Hearts match. This is something we should all be concerned about, surely?
 

[Thomaso]

4 hours ago, PortyBeach said:

We’ve seen with other examples that a high boot doesn’t automatically attract a dismissal. 
Contact with someone’s head is always emotive. In the case in point, it didn’t look to me as if there was much, if any, forward momentum from Yang that could be definitely construed as dangerous play and therefore merit a red card. We might also consider which player did more to instigate the contact.

My views on the incident aren’t about being pro-Celtic. My concern is the blatant attempt to assist The Rangers and the fact it occurred during a Hearts match. This is something we should all be concerned about, surely?
 

Not as concerned as you obviously 🧐

[PortyBeach]

3 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Not as concerned as you obviously 🧐

Yes. I remember clearly the Andy Davis game. The game where Hearts were cheated out of a result, in a blatant attempt to help Rangers.

Another situation where Hearts were used as a vehicle to advance the Ibrox cause by a bent official.

If I remember correctly, it worked big-time - didn’t Rangers win the league by two points that year?

[PortyBeach]

4 hours ago, davemclaren said:

I was only happy it helped Hearts. Sod Rangers...and Celtic.  

I like to think we’d have won the game anyway.

But let’s not delude ourselves that Yang’s dismissal was anything to do with Hearts.

As with the Andy Davis situation, it was all about Ibrox.

Should we not be concerned about this manipulation? 

[XB52]

5 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

I like to think we’d have won the game anyway.

But let’s not delude ourselves that Yang’s dismissal was anything to do with Hearts.

As with the Andy Davis situation, it was all about Ibrox.

Should we not be concerned about this manipulation? 

Pure celtic paranoia

[PortyBeach]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

Pure celtic paranoia

That’s a statement.

How about an explanation of how and why it’s what you allege?

[XB52]

1 minute ago, PortyBeach said:

That’s a statement.

How about an explanation of how and why it’s what you 

You posted utter, kerrydale Street garbage. 

[PortyBeach]

2 minutes ago, XB52 said:

You posted utter, kerrydale Street garbage. 

Bollocks. I set out a balanced view of the situation.

I’m disappointed in you. You’ve struck me as one of the better posters on here. 
I’ve invited you to provide a detailed rebuttal of my argument and this is your response. Sad.😔 

[davemclaren]

30 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

Bollocks. I set out a balanced view of the situation.

I’m disappointed in you. You’ve struck me as one of the better posters on here. 
I’ve invited you to provide a detailed rebuttal of my argument and this is your response. Sad.😔 

Where's the objective evidence to support your claim? 😄

[Randy Marsh]

47 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

Bollocks. I set out a balanced view of the situation.

I’m disappointed in you. You’ve struck me as one of the better posters on here. 
I’ve invited you to provide a detailed rebuttal of my argument and this is your response. Sad.😔 

Nothing you say is balanced.  Yang was rightly sent off in your 2-0 defeat last month yet you are still here greeting about it.  John Beaton actually gave you a penalty at Ibrox the other week.  This century Celtic have won 17 titles to your blue cousins 7.  You were also awarded a rigged title during covid so other clubs could be shafted (us but Partick Thistle even more so).  This conspiracy nonsense from you and the rest of the great unwashed really needs to stop.

Edited April 28 by Randy Marsh

[SM8]

1 hour ago, PortyBeach said:

Bollocks. I set out a balanced view of the situation.

I’m disappointed in you. You’ve struck me as one of the better posters on here. 
I’ve invited you to provide a detailed rebuttal of my argument and this is your response. Sad.😔 

Normally find it tiresome when folk pile on here to accuse others of being incognito Hibs/Huns/Rhats but you are absolutely reeking mate.

[SecN]

42 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

Nothing you say is balanced.  Yang was rightly sent off in your 2-0 defeat last month yet you are still here greeting about it.  John Beaton actually gave you a penalty at Ibrox the other week.  This century Celtic have won 17 titles to your blue cousins 7.  You were also awarded a rigged title during covid so other clubs could be shafted (us but Partick Thistle even more so).  This conspiracy nonsense from you and the rest of the great unwashed really needs to stop.

This is a good post. 

[Sooks]

Derek McInnes always talks quite highly of Hearts . I think he would love to manage us one day 

[Sid]

On 27/04/2024 at 14:58, Morgan said:

Vox Sports bar, Calle Cardereria.

 

Or, try Ortega in Carreteria.

Thanks for the steer. Stuck my head in both but seemed just to be showing Newcastle and Man U games. 
Sounds like I missed one of the best 0-0 draws.  

[PortyBeach]

On 28/04/2024 at 20:10, davemclaren said:

Where's the objective evidence to support your claim? 😄

I’m basing my reasoning on the rules of the game.

For the reasons I’ve already stated, I’ve agreed with the match referee (and the likes of Neil McCann) that the Cochrane-Yang incident merited a yellow card.

One thing I also mentioned earlier was to consider who instigated the contact between those two.

It’s interesting that there have been similarities in two other incidents. Firstly, there was the clash in the Aberdeen v ‘Well game where the Motherwell player hooked the ball clear just as the Aberdeen player crashed into the challenge.

That resulted in the Aberdeen player being kicked in the gut and the ‘Well player was dismissed. Yes, it looked bad, but given the circumstances the pundits didn’t think a red card was the correct decision.

Last weekend Wolves conceded a penalty to Man City. Again, the pundits’ view was that the Wolves player was in the act of clearing the ball just as his opponent made his challenge, and that consequently no penalty should have been awarded.

You’ve mentioned objectivity. The reality is that any set of rules can meet a situation where the application of the rules isn’t necessarily clear-cut. 
When Sandy Clark went down in the penalty box at Dens in 1986, I was right behind it and I wasn’t convinced there was enough there for a clear-cut award.

I think there was enough in it for an argument to be made for giving a penalty, however. So, I’ll admit - if I’d been the referee that day I’d have clutched at that fact and awarded a penalty. 
I’ve tried to be more objective in my analysis of the Cochrane-Yang incident but I suspect Beaton has manipulated the situation in favour of TRFC.