Hearts Euro football 24/25 thread ( merged )

[briever]

12pts available and we are only 11 in front.

[PapaShango]

1 minute ago, briever said:

12pts available and we are only 11 in front.

It’s done not officially but we have done the job. 

[Mikey1874]

Rangers v Kilmarnock next Sunday

[JamboAl]

8 minutes ago, PapaShango said:

It’s done not officially but we have done the job. 

Killie would have to beat both of the Uglies and we'd have to lose all 4 games

[upgotheheads]

Aye, Worth a fiver of anybody's money that we fail to get one point from the next four games, and Killie win all of theirs.🙃😂

[been here before]

"Hear me out"... I think Id rather wait until its definite if its all the same.

[davemclaren]

6 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

We can’t lose in the qualifier. Both possible outcomes are fine by me. I think the long run benefit would be in the Conference. Bit of a naughty question Dave to be honest

It is a bit naughty but I want us to win every matches/tie we are in.  If that takes us to a level where we will take some, or even many,  heavy defeats then so be it.  

[William H. Bonney]

Stranger things have happened. I think I'll wait til next week to celebrate. 

[Clerry Jambo]

It is done and dusted and I also want to see a strong finish from the team, starting next week at Parkhead 

[GinRummy]

Heads could have went down after hampden. Credit where it’s due we played well 

[Mac80]

19 minutes ago, William H. Bonney said:

Stranger things have happened. I think I'll wait til next week to celebrate. 

Killie win every game and we lose every game ? 
it’s done, relax. 

[hearts00]

A great achievement this season. 
 

We need to keep building though and still plenty to improve upon. Namely creating and scoring goals. 

[Doc Rob]

Yeah, mathematically not quite in the bag, but it would now take a highly unlikely combination of circumstances for us not to finish 3rd. So well done lads, another good result away from home against a decent team.

[Jamboross]

Previously I could see the argument with preferring us to be in the Conference League due to the potential easier wins but the change in format makes Europa League substantially more appealing in that regard. With the old format, assuming we were in Pot 4, we would only play Pot 1, 2 & 3 teams limiting our chance to pick up points as they are mostly all much better than us. The new format means we'd also play two teams from Pot 4 - a Riejka, a Budapest or a Lugano type team - tough games, of course, but winnable. 

 

Add to that the extra 2 games over the Conference, the higher prize pot, TV money and reputation boost and it's a no brainer for me. Conference will still be great fun but I'll be hoping for the easiest draw possible in the playoff! 

[Victorian]

34 minutes ago, Jamboross said:

Previously I could see the argument with preferring us to be in the Conference League due to the potential easier wins but the change in format makes Europa League substantially more appealing in that regard. With the old format, assuming we were in Pot 4, we would only play Pot 1, 2 & 3 teams limiting our chance to pick up points as they are mostly all much better than us. The new format means we'd also play two teams from Pot 4 - a Riejka, a Budapest or a Lugano type team - tough games, of course, but winnable. 

 

Add to that the extra 2 games over the Conference, the higher prize pot, TV money and reputation boost and it's a no brainer for me. Conference will still be great fun but I'll be hoping for the easiest draw possible in the playoff! 

 

Reasonable points.  I would prefer the Europa League but the Conference appears to be heading towards a 36 team pool that Hearts should be able to get through to the last 16 play-off.  Pool stage and then knock-out stage would be a decent bit of achievement.  Would prefer a go at the Europa but it would come with a risk of 6 or 7 chasings from the 8 when you look at some of the sides.  

[jamboinglasgow]

For us to not get third now requires an incredible turn of events. On the commentary they said that Killie last won 3 league games in a row back in 2020. The last time they won 4 league games in a row was back in 2018 under Steve Clarke. They have to beat both of the Old Firm as well. And we only need 2 points if they did win every game.

 

Its never done till its technically done, but I think we can consider us safely third.

[JFK-1]

There’s no chance of Killie beating both OF fighting tooth and nail for the title. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

There’s no chance of Killie beating both OF fighting tooth and nail for the title. 

They’ve beaten both already this season, nobody would’ve thought Ross County would beat Rangers. Unlikely though.
Neither of the uglies are as good as they have been and I think St Mirren may well take something off Rangers tomorrow. 

[FarmerTweedy]

On 21/04/2024 at 00:31, RENE said:

Agree.  If some team, either us or any other team, is consistently third for 3/4 years and some team other than the RanTic win the Cup, the team finishing third will miss out on Euro big money.   It's totally unfair that a team winning five games gets into a bigger Euro tourney.

Part of me feels the same about this, but then we celebrate like dafties and have an open-top bus tour through the city when we win a cup, but not when we finish 3rd in the league, which kind of suggests that winning a cup is the bigger achievement. Why shouldn't that then get the bigger reward in Europe? 

[Doc Rob]

2 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Part of me feels the same about this, but then we celebrate like dafties and have an open-top bus tour through the city when we win a cup, but not when we finish 3rd in the league, which kind of suggests that winning a cup is the bigger achievement. Why shouldn't that then get the bigger reward in Europe? 

If you win a cup then you get an actual trophy. No trophy for 3rd place. Which is why we celebrate one but not the other.

 

Having said that, winning a cup is its own reward IMHO. I genuinely think that all Euro qualification should be based on league placing. It means that the teams who are consistently stronger are the ones who play at a higher level. I think UEFA impose rules about cup winners though.

[martoon]

We've done it, according to the BBC's 10 o'clock News.

 

The Beeb never lie, you know? 😊

 

 

[FarmerTweedy]

13 hours ago, alicante jambo said:

Certainly dont want europa league. We are miles off that level. Feck me look at us against paok, istanbul. Conference is what i would like theres a few not so good teams we would have a chance. Maybe even a couple of wins would give us win money but aye it would be grwat having a battle of britain against an english team but getting shagged 8 - 0 on aggregate would not do us any favours.

Aggregate?

[Hansel]

23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

They’ve beaten both already this season, nobody would’ve thought Ross County would beat Rangers. Unlikely though.
Neither of the uglies are as good as they have been and I think St Mirren may well take something off Rangers tomorrow. 

You make a good point, although, none of those victories over the uglies were away from home, which they would need to achieve if they want to stand a chance.

[FarmerTweedy]

12 hours ago, Jambo dans les Pyrenees said:

 

5 million is min payment for being in the competition.  I think there’s normally another 1-2 million for TV rights.

 

On top of that, we’ll have the revenues from a min of 4 or 5 home games, depending on whether it’s the Europa League or Conference League we manage to qualify for.  I’d like to think that alone would bring in another 2-3 million taking into account hospitality, hotel, advertising and sponsorship, ticket sales etc.

 

So 10 million is more like the prize.

 

We usually spend 1-2 nights before the match, and if a charter come back the night of the match.

 

Probably about 70k-100k per trip for taking away 30-35 people, the latter if a charter which we then usually sell 50-60 seats to journalists and fans.

 

Last season, €3m (that's €, not £) was the minimum for being in the Conference League group stage.  We got another €1m for the two wins against RFS, plus a bit more from the media pool pot and our coefficient ranking, plus gate money, hospitality, etc for the home ties, offset by the costs of travel, etc to away games and hosting the home games gave us, according to the club, an overall gain of about £5m, excepting one-off stadium improvements such as upgraded floodlighting, which cost around £2m in total, giving a net gain of around £3m.  I've no idea if the amount of money up for grabs from UEFA is increasing from next season or not, hopefully it is!

[martoon]

7 hours ago, alicante jambo said:

I hear you i do. But if we somehow manage to split the old firm with this team it will be a miracle as we are absolutely nowhere near them. We nearly did under romanov and look how it all ended. We nearly beat bayern munich but never. Our recent european games tell you everything about our team. Even at conference level we are miles off no whether thats tje quality of player or the way we are set up i dont know but aberdeen gave it a go recently and were miles ahead of them. I agree aim for the highest level we can but with these players i reckon we are there. We have dhanda and another 2 coming in but we still have too many who struggle to get to that higher level. Europe shows you that and sevco games. Im a realist lets forget splitting the old firm and consitantly get 3rd.

 

The only way for Hearts to progress is to step up onto any level we can.

 

Qualifying for the Europa League group stage next season would be a huge stride for the club. 

 

We would have to upgrade immediately upon making it but, even if heavy defeats come our way, we'll be mixing it with better opposition and making even more cash whilst doing it.

 

It's all part of building up the club.

 

If we finished second next season, and had a CL qualifier or two to negotiate would you want Hearts to fail because we'd probably take a few thrashings in the group stage?

 

Look at Celtic, aj.

 

They get pumped all over the continent in the CL but they don't give a shit. They're cash rich and dominate domestically because of it.

 

Absolutely no way should HMFC just aim for third forever.

[heartmussel]

4 hours ago, been here before said:

"Hear me out"... I think Id rather wait until its definite if its all the same.

👍

[LarrysRightFoot]

39 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Last season, €3m (that's €, not £) was the minimum for being in the Conference League group stage.  We got another €1m for the two wins against RFS, plus a bit more from the media pool pot and our coefficient ranking, plus gate money, hospitality, etc for the home ties, offset by the costs of travel, etc to away games and hosting the home games gave us, according to the club, an overall gain of about £5m, excepting one-off stadium improvements such as upgraded floodlighting, which cost around £2m in total, giving a net gain of around £3m.  I've no idea if the amount of money up for grabs from UEFA is increasing from next season or not, hopefully it is!

I remember it being mentioned we had outlay on bringing certain things up to UEFA standard. 
 

It makes me wonder how much Aberdeen will have made this season as I doubt Pittodrie met all the requirements. Maybe as they still plan to move they applied for some kind of exemptions instead of paying for improvements they may see no long term need for. 

[Section Q]

4 hours ago, davemclaren said:

It is a bit naughty but I want us to win every matches/tie we are in.  If that takes us to a level where we will take some, or even many,  heavy defeats then so be it.  

I'd take three 0-0 draws and two 1-0 wins against the vermin.......

[BehindYou]

4 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Heads could have went down after hampden. Credit where it’s due we played well 

Credit where it’s due is correct, I’ve had a quick 2 minute look at kickback tonight and just want to remind people how new Naismith is to senior management how well we have done under him. 3rd comfortably, Europe for the 3rd season in a row for the first time ever. Beating Celtic twice in a season without conceding, most away wins for many years. Lost two semis but to a team with a silly budget, we are there competing and pushing on again. There have been worse times to be a hearts fan and next season will be even better. 
 

HHGH

[SandyClark]

2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

There’s no chance of Killie beating both OF fighting tooth and nail for the title. 

Incredible insight, well done

[Marty-man]

3 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Part of me feels the same about this, but then we celebrate like dafties and have an open-top bus tour through the city when we win a cup, but not when we finish 3rd in the league, which kind of suggests that winning a cup is the bigger achievement. Why shouldn't that then get the bigger reward in Europe? 

 

They do get a bigger award. They win a trophy, get their name on a cup and in the record books. If you want to award them 'Euro Prize' on top of that, then give them the lowest available spot. Sorry - but we are now reaching the stage in this country where 3rd place is the real competition.  The fact that a team only needs to win five games (possbily some of them by penalties) to get the group spot ahead of a team that's put in the hard graft for 38 games, is beyond bonkers and does absolutely hee-haw for the coefficient.

Forget the uglies - there is only one real competition in our top league, where the majority of clubs can compete and have at least a chance of achieving success ... Third place - and THAT should be rewarded properly.

Oh and BTW -  I wasn't too bothered about the cup this season. If we won it - great, but my main focus was on that third spot. This is the last season for a while, where third spot will gve us guaranteed group stage football and we HAD to win it. And THAT is the main reason why, in my mind, the most important game last weekend wasn't our match on the Sunday, but the Aberdeen - Celtic game the day before. Celtic HAD to beat Aberdeen. If Aberdeen had managed to win that shootout I would have been a nervous wreck until the final. The fact that they could trash our season, and win THAT prize, by winning just five games (at least one of which was by penalties) just doesn't bear thinking about.

Edited April 28 by Marty-man

[alicante jambo]

7 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Aggregate?

Right forget the aggregate then as i think its a different format this year with only playing a team once. If we get to the europa league then great i would be there roaring the boys on but most of the team would piss all over us. With the squad we have now it would do us no favours getting hammered. Look at us against the turks, fiorentina, paok. Ok we gave zurich a game but they were not anywhere near a good side and we beat a very poor rosenborg side which i really enjoyed was a great night but getting into the conference theres teams that we could beat and make money from, coefficent would maybe improve and it would give us a wee bit of stability and confidence going into games. But if we do get to the europa league it could get embarrassing with that squad.

[David McCaig]

9 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

For us to not get third now requires an incredible turn of events. On the commentary they said that Killie last won 3 league games in a row back in 2020. The last time they won 4 league games in a row was back in 2018 under Steve Clarke. They have to beat both of the Old Firm as well. And we only need 2 points if they did win every game.

 

Its never done till its technically done, but I think we can consider us safely third.

If you look at it as an 8 game accumulator, it is approximately 10,000/1 that we don't finish 3rd.

[JFK-1]

6 hours ago, SandyClark said:

Incredible insight, well done

 

Actually it's not an insight, it's an opinion not all agree with. Now I have clarified that for you do you have any insights?

[JFK-1]

Incidentally I think McInnes should be manager of the season for his work at Kilmarnock this year. A side he took over in the championship then took them to the SPL and spent their first season struggling to avoid relegation.

 

Took him a season to consolidate and now he's in a Euro spot. The sheep would hire him if they could, I think they might be feeling differently about the man who gave them top 4 finishes season after season. But they already shot their bolt there.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if hubz make a move on him somewhere along the line. 

[soonbe110]

27 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Incidentally I think McInnes should be manager of the season for his work at Kilmarnock this year. A side he took over in the championship then took them to the SPL and spent their first season struggling to avoid relegation.

 

Took him a season to consolidate and now he's in a Euro spot. The sheep would hire him if they could, I think they might be feeling differently about the man who gave them top 4 finishes season after season. But they already shot their bolt there.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if hubz make a move on him somewhere along the line. 

Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s this summer. Not sure if he would go there though given he will be given players rather than bringing in his own players. 

[alicante jambo]

29 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

Incidentally I think McInnes should be manager of the season for his work at Kilmarnock this year. A side he took over in the championship then took them to the SPL and spent their first season struggling to avoid relegation.

 

Took him a season to consolidate and now he's in a Euro spot. The sheep would hire him if they could, I think they might be feeling differently about the man who gave them top 4 finishes season after season. But they already shot their bolt there.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if hubz make a move on him somewhere along the line. 

I wouldnt rule naismith out too buddy as manager of the season. 3rd place, 2 visits to hampden and had to do this with numerous injuries. Also his first season as a manager hes not done too bad at all.

Edited April 28 by alicante jambo

[EH11 2NL]

It's been done for ages. Great achievement. Even if Killie had won the 2 recent head to heads, and the gap was 5. I'd be confident we'd get over the line. 

[Tynecastle Valhalla]

So we have come third then fourth then third in the league 

 

the season we came fourth it was very odd that Aberdeen won all those games and finished above us 

 

it’s been a good few seasons

 

well done hearts

 

ann budge and the wider team should be praised and commended 

 

 

[S Form]

3 minutes ago, alicante jambo said:

I wouldnt rule naismith out too buddy as manager of the season. 3rd place, 2 visits to hampden and had to do this with numerous injuries. Also his first season as a manager hes not done too bad at all.

Agreed. McInnes has done well, but Naismith’s record is really impressive. For some reason he gets overlooked when people speculate about Manager of the Year. That’s pretty sad for him, but good for us since he won’t be getting punted by the media whenever there’s a job going at a ‘bigger’ club. Mind you, savvy people within football will be keeping an eye on what he’s doing. 

[Tynecastle Valhalla]

It’s important to finish the season strongly to go into pre season with momentum 

 

it would be nice to see some fringe players given a chance which will include youngsters 

 

tait will recover from that error 

 

he is obviously good in training 

[JimmyCant]

15 minutes ago, alicante jambo said:

I wouldnt rule naismith out too buddy as manager of the season. 3rd place, 2 visits to hampden and had to do this with numerous injuries. Also his first season as a manager hes not done too bad at all.

Tony Docherty has a claim too. It’ll go to Clement if he wins the league though. Can’t see it being Brendan. Even if he wins the league, Celtic have regressed under him.

[JimmyCant]

13 hours ago, davemclaren said:

It is a bit naughty but I want us to win every matches/tie we are in.  If that takes us to a level where we will take some, or even many,  heavy defeats then so be it.  

Fair enough, but given that winning EVERY game isn’t possible, the next target is to win as many as possible. I submit we’d win more in the Conference than we would in the Europa. Winning feels good. losing feels bad. Aside from which, we’d have a fair chance of getting out of the big group in the Conference and progressing a bit further. 

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

It’ll go to Clement if he wins the league though. 

 

Never thought of that, he would probably get it if he won a treble, but that should pretty much be expected from any OF manager, I still think McInnes would deserve it more.

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Fair enough, but given that winning EVERY game isn’t possible, the next target is to win as many as possible. I submit we’d win more in the Conference than we would in the Europa. Winning feels good. losing feels bad. Aside from which, we’d have a fair chance of getting out of the big group in the Conference and progressing a bit further. 

 

I don't know what the financial difference would be but you're right it's truly another level in the Europa, almost like the step up to CL from Europa and we know what happens to the OF in the CL.

 

I was also wondering if a favourable conference group was landed if potential points there, points make money,  money that might help offset the lost Europa qualification money. Also coefficient points for both club and country come with match points.

[RENE]

7 hours ago, Marty-man said:

 

They do get a bigger award. They win a trophy, get their name on a cup and in the record books. If you want to award them 'Euro Prize' on top of that, then give them the lowest available spot. Sorry - but we are now reaching the stage in this country where 3rd place is the real competition.  The fact that a team only needs to win five games (possbily some of them by penalties) to get the group spot ahead of a team that's put in the hard graft for 38 games, is beyond bonkers and does absolutely hee-haw for the coefficient.

Forget the uglies - there is only one real competition in our top league, where the majority of clubs can compete and have at least a chance of achieving success ... Third place - and THAT should be rewarded properly.

Oh and BTW -  I wasn't too bothered about the cup this season. If we won it - great, but my main focus was on that third spot. This is the last season for a while, where third spot will gve us guaranteed group stage football and we HAD to win it. And THAT is the main reason why, in my mind, the most important game last weekend wasn't our match on the Sunday, but the Aberdeen - Celtic game the day before. Celtic HAD to beat Aberdeen. If Aberdeen had managed to win that shootout I would have been a nervous wreck until the final. The fact that they could trash our season, and win THAT prize, by winning just five games (at least one of which was by penalties) just doesn't bear thinking about.

Totally agree. 

[ramrod]

2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

Incidentally I think McInnes should be manager of the season for his work at Kilmarnock this year. A side he took over in the championship then took them to the SPL and spent their first season struggling to avoid relegation.

 

Took him a season to consolidate and now he's in a Euro spot. The sheep would hire him if they could, I think they might be feeling differently about the man who gave them top 4 finishes season after season. But they already shot their bolt there.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if hubz make a move on him somewhere along the line. 

So we are touting a manager who's side haven't managed to beat the obvious pick for manager of the year's side in  5 attempts ?

OK then........

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

17 hours ago, Buster HMFC said:

No it wasn't. Your team was destined for the bottom 6 2 months ago

 

Yes it was, 3rd was wrapped up and the cup game had no inpact on 3rd place.

Only a fool would think different.

 

Calling me hibs, did you think of that all by yourself?

Clever and original. 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, ramrod said:

So we are touting a manager who's side haven't managed to beat the obvious pick for manager of the year's side in  5 attempts ?

OK then........

 

 

 

That's not the criteria for manager of the year.

 

Kilie from championship, 1th to 4th and finishing above the likes of Aberdeen deserves credit. Killie have far out performed expectations. 

 

Hearts have went from 4th to 3rd, it's good but McInnes edges the award for me.

 

Dundee have done really well too.

 

Rodgers will get it anyway.

 

[ramrod]

17 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

That's not the criteria for manager of the year.

 

Kilie from championship, 1th to 4th and finishing above the likes of Aberdeen deserves credit. Killie have far out performed expectations. 

 

Hearts have went from 4th to 3rd, it's good but McInnes edges the award for me.

 

Dundee have done really well too.

 

Rodgers will get it anyway.

 

You've only got to look at yesterday to see the difference  between the two.

McInnes has always set up his teams a particular way, its tried and tested and fairly easy to achieve. 

His teams have always played percentage football which has largely been successful up here 

Naismith is implementing a completely different style of football,  a much harder brand which is difficult to achieve, given the calibre of player he can attract.

For a rookie manager to have achieved what he has achieved,  while playing a possession,  attacking based ethos is far more impressive than McInnes imo.

We are sometimes to quick to ignore what is in front of us as Hearts fans.