Dunfermline Athletic Training Ground

[dannymack]

Was at Rosyth Dockyard this morning and passed the old Civil Service and Recreation Park (played there a few times over the distant years) and saw that work was getting done to the Civil,  stopped to have a look and asked the worker what was going on, seemingly The Pars have secured the land and once completed along with the old building it will be their new training ground... looks awfy good, or braw and there's two grass pitches included within the land area. 

 

Was thinking how and why have Hearts not done this sooner rather than later (I know we're in a contract) as I'm led to believe all is not well up at The Oriam with the club staff deserving a much better standard and service from the owners. 

 

I know the club has a tight budget and heads are above water but surely to compromise on a contract exit and use the rent money to finance our own training complex will only benefit Hearts in the long run ? 

[RustyRightPeg]

Is this where Rosyth were playing before they folded a short while ago?

 

Certainly has potential going by those photos. Good on them.

[HopeDiouf]

used to be cracking pitches if I remember correctly.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Is this where Rosyth were playing before they folded a short while ago?

 

Certainly has potential going by those photos. Good on them.

No it’s not.  They used to play across the road then I think they moved to the Fleet ground near the dockyard.   I think there was talk of them sharing the old Civil Service grounds with the Pars but I didn’t know they’d gone bust. 
 

Looks like that new training pitch is where the old bowling green was.  I see they still haven’t knocked down the old Civil Service club, wonder what they’re going to do with that. 

[ROCK LOBSTER]

7 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Is this where Rosyth were playing before they folded a short while ago?

 

Certainly has potential going by those photos. Good on them.

No that's the old civil service pitches rosyth played across the road at recreation 

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, HopeDiouf said:

used to be cracking pitches if I remember correctly.

They were pretty good, much better than Pitreavie.  My son’s team used to train and play there but got horsed out to another shite pitch at Inverkeithing High instead.  Makes Livi’s pitch look like Wembley!

[RustyRightPeg]

16 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

No it’s not.  They used to play across the road then I think they moved to the Fleet ground near the dockyard.   I think there was talk of them sharing the old Civil Service grounds with the Pars but I didn’t know they’d gone bust. 
 

Looks like that new training pitch is where the old bowling green was.  I see they still haven’t knocked down the old Civil Service club, wonder what they’re going to do with that. 

 

14 minutes ago, ROCK LOBSTER said:

No that's the old civil service pitches rosyth played across the road at recreation 

 

Cheers guys.

 

I knew Rosyth had been using a new set up earlier this year when Stevie Crawford was in charge, but then whoever it was in charge of the Astro changed the terms of the lease which they strongly disagreed with, hence the folding of the EoS team.

[The Treasurer]

39 minutes ago, dannymack said:

Was at Rosyth Dockyard this morning and passed the old Civil Service and Recreation Park (played there a few times over the distant years) and saw that work was getting done to the Civil,  stopped to have a look and asked the worker what was going on, seemingly The Pars have secured the land and once completed along with the old building it will be their new training ground... looks awfy good, or braw and there's two grass pitches included within the land area. 

 

Was thinking how and why have Hearts not done this sooner rather than later (I know we're in a contract) as I'm led to believe all is not well up at The Oriam with the club staff deserving a much better standard and service from the owners. 

 

I know the club has a tight budget and heads are above water but surely to compromise on a contract exit and use the rent money to finance our own training complex will only benefit Hearts in the long run ? 

A wee park with a couple of sets of goalposts. 

Not quite the same facilities as the Oriam. 

 

[Mikey1874]

 

[kingantti1874]

Disagree entirely. Hearts should look stay at the oriam which is a world class facility on terms which suit both parties.  
 

no way would I be supportive of spending £15-£20m on a new facility, which comes no where near close to what we already have.  
 

be absolutely stupid tbh. I believe this is plan A for hearts, and the media posturing is to secure a good deal.  

Edited April 4 by kingantti1874

[Homme]

4 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Disagree entirely. Hearts should look stay at the oriam which is a world class facility on terms which suit both parties.  
 

no way would I be supportive of spending £15-£20m on a new facility, which comes no where near close to what we already have.  
 

be absolutely stupid tbh. I believe this is plan A for hearts, and the media posturing is to secure a good deal.  

 

Completely agree. You are talking insane money to just match the standards of the Oriam. Insane money we just do not have. Anything less would be a huge set back for the club if we went out on our own.

 

We like it there. The Oriam want us. If we need to negotiate further with them to get more out of the arrangement then so be it. 

[Cruyff]

4 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Disagree entirely. Hearts should look stay at the oriam which is a world class facility on terms which suit both parties.  
 

no way would I be supportive of spending £15-£20m on a new facility, which comes no where near close to what we already have.  
 

be absolutely stupid tbh. I believe this is plan A for hearts, and the media posturing is to secure a good deal.  

Yeah I agree entirely. 

 

The land alone for a facility would probably cost us millions upon millions then construction costs would bring it close to or within that bracket I'd imagine. 

 

Hearts really need to buy that distillery if they ever sell it and build a stadium on that footprint then build training facilities on the land we own around Tynie. That would be the dream. 

[Rampant]

Never quite got the clamour for Hearts owning their own training facilities, and the benefits to such an investment.

 

Many of the the biggest corporates/firms in the world lease their offices.  They can brand and customise to fit their requirements.  There's no expectation they own their own offices and there doesn't appear to be an appetite within them to do so.

 

Hearts have a top quality training facility on their doorstep, relatively.  Much happier the club's capital spending has been on items such as the bar, restaurant, hotel, and hospitality, which are already bringing in additional revenue to the club, rather than shelling out millions for training facilities that we actually already have...

 

Edited April 4 by Rampant

[sirwalter]

2 hours ago, dannymack said:

Was at Rosyth Dockyard this morning and passed the old Civil Service and Recreation Park (played there a few times over the distant years) and saw that work was getting done to the Civil,  stopped to have a look and asked the worker what was going on, seemingly The Pars have secured the land and once completed along with the old building it will be their new training ground... looks awfy good, or braw and there's two grass pitches included within the land area. 

 

Was thinking how and why have Hearts not done this sooner rather than later (I know we're in a contract) as I'm led to believe all is not well up at The Oriam with the club staff deserving a much better standard and service from the owners. 

 

I know the club has a tight budget and heads are above water but surely to compromise on a contract exit and use the rent money to finance our own training complex will only benefit Hearts in the long run ? 

 

A Dunfermline training complex? Might all be humbug... 

[dannymack]

As I said I'm led to believe all is not well up at The Oriam with sub standard grass pitches, behind the SRU and SFA in the pecking order when it comes to booking indoor facilities, not having privacy when training, not having privacy and adequate facilities for analysis, team bonding and catering. 

All this was on the back end of the guy who's with Steve Clarke at Scotland complaining about the same details. 

 

My source is a coach with the Youth Development (I'll not mention names) and he has in previous conversations mentioned the need for Hearts to move on into the next levels if we're wanting to sit near the top of the tree. 

[dannymack]

3 minutes ago, sirwalter said:

 

A Dunfermline training complex? Might all be humbug... 

 

Crossgates Primrose was there not that long ago for a match. 

[GorgieFifeLife]

The standard of Oriam is vastly overstated on here and has a number of negatives.  I think long term we need to be looking at having our own facilities so we can keep things under our control and avoid the variables of sharing a facility with other stakeholders.

[been here before]

48 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Disagree entirely. Hearts should look stay at the oriam which is a world class facility on terms which suit both parties.  

 

Except it isnt and it doesn't.

 

49 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

I believe this is plan A for hearts, and the media posturing is to secure a good deal.  

 

Then in this instance, like most things you believe, you're wrong again.

 

8 minutes ago, dannymack said:

As I said I'm led to believe all is not well up at The Oriam with sub standard grass pitches, behind the SRU and SFA in the pecking order when it comes to booking indoor facilities, not having privacy when training, not having privacy and adequate facilities for analysis, team bonding and catering. 

All this was on the back end of the guy who's with Steve Clarke at Scotland complaining about the same details. 

 

My source is a coach with the Youth Development (I'll not mention names) and he has in previous conversations mentioned the need for Hearts to move on into the next levels if we're wanting to sit near the top of the tree. 

 

And this is generally all correct. 

 

Even the SFA dont fancy the Oriam now and theres been issues going back to Strachans time in charge.

[JJ93]

On Dunfermline, I hope that they get promoted via the play-offs. They haven't been in the Prem for a long time and I'd like to see them back. However, the Champ is so tight they could as easily be in a relegation play-off as they could in a promotion play-off!

[lou]

The Civil service facility will be missed, my sons team played their home matches there for and was also the base for Dunfermline Hearts, left from  there for many a Hampden trip 

Edited April 4 by lou

[OTT]

2 hours ago, dannymack said:

As I said I'm led to believe all is not well up at The Oriam with sub standard grass pitches, behind the SRU and SFA in the pecking order when it comes to booking indoor facilities, not having privacy when training, not having privacy and adequate facilities for analysis, team bonding and catering. 

All this was on the back end of the guy who's with Steve Clarke at Scotland complaining about the same details. 

 

My source is a coach with the Youth Development (I'll not mention names) and he has in previous conversations mentioned the need for Hearts to move on into the next levels if we're wanting to sit near the top of the tree. 

 

I'm sure Clarkes assistant said something about the quality of the pitch - I'd dismissed it as just weegie centric nonsense - "not in Glasgow so it must be bad". 

 

I really hope we're able to get a deal that gives us the training centre the club needs/wants. 

 

[Sooks]

4 hours ago, dannymack said:

Was at Rosyth Dockyard this morning and passed the old Civil Service and Recreation Park (played there a few times over the distant years) and saw that work was getting done to the Civil,  stopped to have a look and asked the worker what was going on, seemingly The Pars have secured the land and once completed along with the old building it will be their new training ground... looks awfy good, or braw and there's two grass pitches included within the land area. 

 

Was thinking how and why have Hearts not done this sooner rather than later (I know we're in a contract) as I'm led to believe all is not well up at The Oriam with the club staff deserving a much better standard and service from the owners. 

 

I know the club has a tight budget and heads are above water but surely to compromise on a contract exit and use the rent money to finance our own training complex will only benefit Hearts in the long run ? 

Be good to see them and Falkirk get their shit together . Two of our bigger clubs historically . Am I right in thinking that fat odious prick who owned them during our demotion season has ****ed off

[Fozzyonthefence]

3 minutes ago, Sooks said:

Be good to see them and Falkirk get their shit together . Two of our bigger clubs historically . Am I right in thinking that fat odious prick who owned them during our demotion season has ****ed off

Gavin Masterton (ex BOS chief) previously owned them, not sure when he sold up and some Germans own them now.  I think the guy you’re thinking of was maybe their chairman?

[Cambo]

There is absolutely no way the Oriam could ever be considered to be "world class". That is simply not true. There are many top European clubs who have now built a second or even third new facility in last 20 or 30 years and simply having the funds, is not the reason for doing so. If we dont aspire to create our own facility within the next 5/10 years, we will never progress as a club of our size could. We need to show big ambition when it comes to training and development facilities. When clubs in League 1 and 2 in England have better facilities than us, we should really be upping our game.

 

Good on the Pars all the same.

[Bungalow Bill]

3 hours ago, been here before said:

 

Except it isnt and it doesn't.

 

 

Then in this instance, like most things you believe, you're wrong again.

 

 

And this is generally all correct. 

 

Even the SFA dont fancy the Oriam now and theres been issues going back to Strachans time in charge.

The SFA don’t ‘fancy’ it because it’s in Edinburgh. 

[Sooks]

19 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Gavin Masterton (ex BOS chief) previously owned them, not sure when he sold up and some Germans own them now.  I think the guy you’re thinking of was maybe their chairman?

Masterton ? I assumed he must have been gone for a while . David Murrays mate and a very dodgy guy by many accounts . Aye think it was the Chairman I was thinking of , looked like a stuffed pig 

[Sooks]

2 minutes ago, Bungalow Bill said:

The SFA don’t ‘fancy’ it because it’s in Edinburgh. 

I suspect the presence of Lord Haughey and the cash he put in had something to do with it as well . A man who infamously stated that he would put money in to keep Scotland at Hampden because Glasgow is the heart of Scottish football . Do they not now train at Queens Parks ground or something ? Pretty sure they moved to somewhere he was involved with 

[Nookie Bear]

Just don’t think we have the money to create our own training complex just yet and the Oriam, for all its faults, will have to do for the next few years. 

[been here before]

19 minutes ago, Bungalow Bill said:

The SFA don’t ‘fancy’ it because it’s in Edinburgh. 

 

Aye?

 

Even though Strachan says he wanted to move the Scottish team from the Oriam around 2016ish but the SFA said no.

 

Hows that work with your theory then?

Edited April 4 by been here before

[johnking123]

50 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Just don’t think we have the money to create our own training complex just yet and the Oriam, for all its faults, will have to do for the next few years. 

It's just not a priority at the moment. 

[dannymack]

1 hour ago, Bungalow Bill said:

The SFA don’t ‘fancy’ it because it’s in Edinburgh. 

 

Forgot to mention that within my list of other points of interest. 

[dannymack]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

Just don’t think we have the money to create our own training complex just yet and the Oriam, for all its faults, will have to do for the next few years. 

 

Limbo, catch 22, where do we go from here ? 

 

If the SRU & SFA weren't there then our remaining years of our contract could well be justifiable to stay but those neglected pitches and lack of seniority when it comes to indoor facilities badly need addressed. 

 

The club doesn't have the funds but I'm sure there's a way and a mean to get funds in order to obtain land, build a reasonably sized private training facility. 

2 x grass pitches

Warm up pitch

Indoor pitch

Gym

Catering

Classrooms 

Media rooms

Treatment room 

Recreation room etc etc

Looks a lot but it's not really

Heart of Midlothian need to get away from The Oriam. 

[Cairneyhill Jambo]

Even Rudi graced Rosyth Recs Park. 

[Section Q]

Good luck to them. Land around Dunfermline is much cheaper than around Edinburgh.

I'd prefer to see us focus on increasing our capacity at Tynecastle though.

Oriam has been great for us.

[tokyowalnut]

Oriam is fine, ‘World Class’ is laughable. 
 

Suits us just now but we really should have our own training centre, I’d hope it’s our next big infrastructure project. 

[Chuck Berry]

7 hours ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Is this where Rosyth were playing before they folded a short while ago?

 

Certainly has potential going by those photos. Good on them.

 

Rosyth got kicked out of Recreation Park as the Council sold it to a supermarket, that was 4 or 5 years ago.

 

They got a temporary home at the Fleet Grounds until such time as they got a replacement ground as part of the supermarket deal, but it dragged on and on, the Council didn't allow the developers to start work until a new ground was supplied.  Fleet Grounds didn't meet East of Scotland League requirements and the league was running out of patience.

 

They were then supposed to be going to the Civil Service ground along with the Pars, but I believe they were shafted by them and it was back to square one, but the Fleet Grounds were now needed for a new school.

 

Eventually a new 3g was agreed for one of the pitches at Pitreavie, bascially a 3g cage, with dressing rooms in the big white building, moving there for next season.  However, the terms of the rental were changed a couple of months ago which the club couldn't meet, so they decided to jack it and withdrew from the league with immediate effect.

 

Recreation Park remains a wasteground, undeveloped.    A complete shambles.

 

 

Edited April 4 by Chuck Berry

[Byyy The Light]

2 hours ago, been here before said:

 

Aye?

 

Even though Strachan says he wanted to move the Scottish team from the Oriam around 2016ish but the SFA said no.

 

Hows that work with your theory then?

Was oriam even open in 2016?

[been here before]

13 minutes ago, Byyy The Light said:

Was oriam even open in 2016?

 

Aye, opened in 2016.

 

Strachan was apparently greeting about it early doors right up to his punting the following year.

[sirwalter]

6 hours ago, dannymack said:

 

Crossgates Primrose was there not that long ago for a match. 

Ah, but way, way back in the mists of time the Pars had big plans for a training centre at Humbug Park - it didn't end well.. 

[Armageddon]

9 hours ago, dannymack said:

Was at Rosyth Dockyard this morning and passed the old Civil Service and Recreation Park (played there a few times over the distant years) and saw that work was getting done to the Civil,  stopped to have a look and asked the worker what was going on, seemingly The Pars have secured the land and once completed along with the old building it will be their new training ground... looks awfy good, or braw and there's two grass pitches included within the land area. 

 

Was thinking how and why have Hearts not done this sooner rather than later (I know we're in a contract) as I'm led to believe all is not well up at The Oriam with the club staff deserving a much better standard and service from the owners. 

 

I know the club has a tight budget and heads are above water but surely to compromise on a contract exit and use the rent money to finance our own training complex will only benefit Hearts in the long run ? 

Have you ever set foot in any part of the Orium?  That will explain why we’ve not committed the multi-millions needed to build and run and top class facility. 

[manaliveits105]

9 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

Disagree entirely. Hearts should look stay at the oriam which is a world class facility on terms which suit both parties.  
 

no way would I be supportive of spending £15-£20m on a new facility, which comes no where near close to what we already have.  
 

be absolutely stupid tbh. I believe this is plan A for hearts, and the media posturing is to secure a good deal.  

Yep stay there 

[Midloth_Iain]

10 hours ago, been here before said:

 

Aye?

 

Even though Strachan says he wanted to move the Scottish team from the Oriam around 2016ish but the SFA said no.

 

Hows that work with your theory then?

 

8 hours ago, Byyy The Light said:

Was oriam even open in 2016?

 

ORIAM OPENS ITS DOORS

We opened our doors to our first customers with great anticipation in August 2016. 
The facilities were officially opened in November 2016 by the First Minister of the time, Nicola Sturgeon.

 

 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Those who rabbit on about how class Oriam is have never even been there let alone train there. It’s essentially a public gym. I get adverts for a membership there. We may as well train at David Lloyd or Meggetland “fantastic facility” there too. But it’s not ours, we don’t control it. Any old Tom Dick and Harry walks the same halls as our players. 

 

I 100% expect Hearts to move on when contract expires in 2030. It seems OP has completely missed the noise which has been regularly coming out of the club indicating we’re looking closely at it. It will easy take the 6 years we have until then to plan it properly so we def won’t be terminating Oriam early. 

[RustyRightPeg]

6 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Those who rabbit on about how class Oriam is have never even been there let alone train there. It’s essentially a public gym. I get adverts for a membership there. We may as well train at David Lloyd or Meggetland “fantastic facility” there too. But it’s not ours, we don’t control it. Any old Tom Dick and Harry walks the same halls as our players. 

 

I 100% expect Hearts to move on when contract expires in 2030. It seems OP has completely missed the noise which has been regularly coming out of the club indicating we’re looking closely at it. It will easy take the 6 years we have until then to plan it properly so we def won’t be terminating Oriam early. 

 

They don't though.

 

Hearts & the SRU have a private area at the other end of the facility that they get exclusive access to.

[kingantti1874]

11 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Those who rabbit on about how class Oriam is have never even been there let alone train there. It’s essentially a public gym. I get adverts for a membership there. We may as well train at David Lloyd or Meggetland “fantastic facility” there too. But it’s not ours, we don’t control it. Any old Tom Dick and Harry walks the same halls as our players. 

 

I 100% expect Hearts to move on when contract expires in 2030. It seems OP has completely missed the noise which has been regularly coming out of the club indicating we’re looking closely at it. It will easy take the 6 years we have until then to plan it properly so we def won’t be terminating Oriam early. 

Then invest into oriam, say a much smaller amount of £5m for our own facilities, which we control and manage, and agree a beneficial deal for the continued use of the pitches.  We benefit, oriam benefits.

 

moving offsite, leaving oriam to become a huge white elephant only used by Scottish rugby benefits no one.  If we are ever spending £15-£20m it should go toward resolve the limitations of tynecastle. 
 

people forget we invested quite a lot of money into the original facilities at HW.  
 

Edit : as RRP clarified above we do have exclusive access probably on account of the fact that we paid for them.  We should make any improvements we need and stay. 

Edited April 5 by kingantti1874

[Homme]

5 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

They don't though.

 

Hearts & the SRU have a private area at the other end of the facility that they get exclusive access to.

 

Yep.

 

We don't use the same facilities as Joe Public.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

7 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

 

They don't though.

 

Hearts & the SRU have a private area at the other end of the facility that they get exclusive access to.

 

And this small private area is not big enough for the football club.
 

Which is why it’s been repeatedly in the press stating we are not satisfied with the current arrangement.

 

We want our exclusive area expanded. That’s been said in absolute crystal clear terms.
 

But the sticking point is, Heriot watt is essentially bust, so Oriam would probably want us to pay for that… Pay to expand a facility we rent. Like a tenant paying for an extension to a landlord owned house. Why not pay for our own purpose built facility instead? 
 

The Oriam is vastly overrated by Hearts fans. 

 

 

Edited April 5 by A_A wehatethehibs

[kingantti1874]

2 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

 

And this small private area is not big enough for the football club.
 

Which is why it’s been repeatedly in the press stating we are not satisfied with the current arrangement.

 

We want our exclusive area expanded. That’s been said in absolute crystal clear terms.
 

But the sticking point is, Heriot watt is essentially bust, so Oriam would probably want us to pay for that… Pay to expand a facility we rent. Like a tenant paying for an extension to a landlord owned house. Why not pay for our own purpose built facility instead? 
 

The Oriam is vastly overrated by Hearts fans. 

 

 

becuase it will cost us £20million that’s why. And if we are spending £20million there are better, more worthwhile projects with a better return on investment.
 

fix any issues and agree favourable terms. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

3 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

Then invest into oriam, say a much smaller amount of £5m for our own facilities, which we control and manage, and agree a beneficial deal for the continued use of the pitches.  We benefit, oriam benefits.

 

moving offsite, leaving oriam to become a huge white elephant only used by Scottish rugby benefits no one.  If we are ever spending £15-£20m it should go toward resolve the limitations of tynecastle. 
 

people forget we invested quite a lot of money into the original facilities at HW.  
 

Edit : as RRP clarified above we do have exclusive access probably on account of the fact that we paid for them.  We should make any improvements we need and stay. 

There is no way to resolve the limitations of Tynecastle. Hate to break it to you. Tynecastle will stand as is for the foreseeable. Then we will look at a move. Fact is we should’ve planned a move to a new stadium in the early 1990s but sentimentality got in the way hindering us for years to come. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

Just now, kingantti1874 said:

becuase it will cost us £20million that’s why. And if we are spending £20million there are better, more worthwhile projects with a better return on investment.
 

fix any issues and agree favourable terms. 

The club knows more than you. Favourable terms may not be forthcoming. Oriam like any Landlord will be looking to increase the rent considerably and will not look to spend a penny. So we’re going to pay for an extension to their house? 
 

We will be leaving IMO