***Official St. Mirren vs Hearts match day thread***

[Debut 4]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

Vargas is on a whole different level from Dexter imo.  Like I said we are lucky to have him. If he had came from our own academy the gushing praise I’m giving him would be unanimous or close to it. 
 

Sure he’s not the complete player but composure will come. 

Agree.

 

Alluding to your last line, who is the complete player? Anywhere?  
 

Before you even talk about ability I just love the laddies fighting spirit and willingness to chase and chase when he’s not got the ball.  Some others in our team could take note at times, ones who get high praise for ability but in truth rarely produce. However, if they maybe put in the hard work they’d get rewards, like Vargas?

 

Over many games now because he is a starter we are seeing all the good things he brings. I’ve always believed at our level that having players with a “knack” as long as they also do their work, is like gold to a club at our level….they may lack other things but bring the important stuff.

 

Shankland, Ginnelly , Vargas….all give/gave something that makes/made a difference even if you had gripes with other parts of their game.  
 

 

 

 

Edited April 6 by Debut 4

[GinRummy]

13 minutes ago, Debut 4 said:

Agree.

 

Alluding to your last line, who is the complete player? Anywhere?  
 

Before you even talk about ability I just love the laddies fighting spirit and willingness to chase and chase when he’s not got the ball.  Some others in our team could take note at times, ones who get high praise for ability but in truth rarely produce. However, if they maybe put in the hard work they’d get rewards, like Vargas?

 

Over many games now because he is a starter we are seeing all the good things he brings. I’ve always believed at our level that having players with a “knack” as long as they also do their work, is like gold to a club at our level….they may lack other things but bring the important stuff.

 

Shankland, Ginnelly , Vargas….all give/gave something that makes/made a difference even if you had gripes with other parts of their game.  
 

 

 

 

Agree. Only going to get better with his attitude and ability. 
 

Was more responding to criticism of certain aspects of his game than suggesting he should be a ‘complete’ player.  

[Badonde]

1 hour ago, grumpyespana said:

Great result today guys but not looking forward to life without Shankland next season if I am being honest.

Where’s he going like?

[maroonsgotop]

Well deserved win in dreadful conditions. All the players worked very hard today in dreadful condtions and  Grant was my mom closely followed by Rowles

[upgotheheads]

1 hour ago, jock _turd said:

 

Everytime he had to fight to win the ball he lost it has similar strength to an asprin in a bucket of water.

 Who TF are you talking about?

[Morgan]

2 hours ago, AC Mallin_51 said:

Think they’ll just miss out but they’re currently the strongest side outside the old firm! Or so they say 🤣🤣

It’s all these ‘world class’ players they have, and of course, the ‘momentum’ which they have built up.

 

It must be great being a Hibby right now!

[maroonsgotop]

30 minutes ago, maroonsgotop said:

Well deserved win in dreadful conditions. All the players worked very hard today and  Grant was my mom closely followed by Rowles

also, very good second half from Cochrane

[Ricardo Quaresma]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Spot on

 

 

That goes for benny clackerbag too

 

[Mikey1874]

Sportscene barely covered the game. Didn't show the Devlin chance. 

[Maple Leaf]

2 hours ago, Gorgierools said:

Kamikaze. Great wind. I believe 

Divine, actually.

[XB52]

15 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Sportscene barely covered the game. Didn't show the Devlin chance. 

They've got a game tomorrow to worry about

[Pasquale for King]

Cochrane passing the goal scorer on to Dexter wasn’t great defending either. 

[Tynecastle Valhalla]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Sportscene barely covered the game. Didn't show the Devlin chance. 

Absolutely outrageous - it was a one on one !

[Aussie Jambo]

Great results. I ****ing hate St Liedoon. 

[JimmyCant]

3 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

So wee commit 5 fouls and get 2 bookings they commit 14 fouls and get 1 booking is that about right?

One of ours was kicking the ball away, the other one was on the harsh side. Their booking was for dissent.

 

Overall though, I thought that was the best referee performance by a distance that we’ve had this season so no complaints.

[DesertDawg]

3 hours ago, Devorgilla said:

On the BBC the crowd given as 7,740 but earlier on we were also advised it was a sell out.  Is their ground capacity really that limited?

St Mirren Park/Capacity

7,937

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

Cochrane passing the goal scorer on to Dexter wasn’t great defending either. 

It’s just a horrible goal all round. Limbikisa beat for pace. Powder puff really poor last ditch challenge by Denholm and not the best by the keeper who should have come when he got so close to goal. Dexter needs to bring the guy down when he sees Denholm coming to cover

Edited April 6 by JimmyCant

[S Form]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

One of ours was kicking the ball away, the other one was on the harsh side. Their booking was for dissent.

 

Overall though, I thought that was the best referee performance by a distance that we’ve had this season so no complaints.

I thought we were always getting our penalty. If I’m not mistaken Muir was the ref who denied us a stonewaller when Forrest got taken down at Tynie (can’t remember who it was against, but the decision was outrageous). He was probably too embarrassed to turn us down again.

[Japan Jambo]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Has Tagawa shat in Naismiths grey shoes? 

tried to but missed

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

It’s just a horrible goal all round. Limbikisa beat for pace. Powder puff really poor last ditch challenge by Denholm and not the best by the keeper who should have come when he got so close to goal. Dexter needs to bring the guy down when he sees Denholm coming to cover

Three youngsters who need to learn, the GK should know what to do when that situation arises though. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

tried to but missed

😆👍🏽

[JimmyCant]

8 minutes ago, S Form said:

I thought we were always getting our penalty. If I’m not mistaken Muir was the ref who denied us a stonewaller when Forrest got taken down at Tynie (can’t remember who it was against, but the decision was outrageous). He was probably too embarrassed to turn us down again.

Hmmmm Ross County 2-2 game I believe, but you could name at least 4 refs who would deny that penalty today and give theirs on any given day

 

Fact is, he got all the decisions right and you don’t often see a ref sent to the screen and stick with his onfield decision when VAR clearly encouraged him to give a pen.

 

No doubt he’ll be utterly incompetent on another occasion we get him, but today he was spot on

[JimmyCant]

17 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Three youngsters who need to learn, the GK should know what to do when that situation arises though. 

Even if someone is taking a red for the team he’s got to be brought down before he hits the box. Doesnt

matter at the end of the day I suppose and the boy was strong and quick to finish it but we’ve had 4 opportunities to prevent a goal there and we’ve made 4 mistakes to concede. Sloppy all round.

 

I hope tae **** we’re not thinking about keeping Limbikisa. Defensively hes all over the place. No danger is Sibbick conceding that goal and he gets slaughtered on here frequently 

Edited April 6 by JimmyCant

[Morgan]

4 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

So wee commit 5 fouls and get 2 bookings they commit 14 fouls and get 1 booking is that about right?

Apart from the ‘wee’ bit.

 

👀

[john thomas]

6 hours ago, jock _turd said:

 

I am not disagreeing but intent has never really been a thing. Parallel that with a defender jumping for a high ball and playing the ball with his arm as it passed him, it is a penalty whether he realised he touched the ball or not. If the ref had blown for that not one person would have disagreed but he missed it and VAR did not.

Responding to you saying 'he has used his arm to block the ball' ?

Implies he intended to . Obviously he didn't. 

 

[JimmyCant]

4 minutes ago, john thomas said:

Responding to you saying 'he has used his arm to block the ball' ?

Implies he intended to . Obviously he didn't. 

 

‘Intent’ and ‘deliberate’ has always been an element of handball and still is.

 

The current interpretation of it is, if you place your hand/arm anywhere the ball could hit it, that’s deemed as ‘deliberate’ action or ‘intent’  The lad today has his arm/hand in a position where the ball could hit it. The view is and was, that putting his hand/arm in the position was intentional, not necessarily that he intended to actively divert the ball

[john thomas]

13 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

‘Intent’ and ‘deliberate’ has always been an element of handball and still is.

 

The current interpretation of it is, if you place your hand/arm anywhere the ball could hit it, that’s deemed as ‘deliberate’ action or ‘intent’  The lad today has his arm/hand in a position where the ball could hit it. The view is and was, that putting his hand/arm in the position was intentional, not necessarily that he intended to actively divert the ball

Semantics etc . Guy obviously did not intend to block the shot.

Which jock stated he did .

Wasn't (see previous posts) arguing about whether it was a penalty (it was)

[tiger Rudi]

38 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Even if someone is taking a red for the team he’s got to be brought down before he hits the box. Doesnt

matter at the end of the day I suppose and the boy was strong and quick to finish it but we’ve had 4 opportunities to prevent a goal there and we’ve made 4 mistakes to concede. Sloppy all round.

 

I hope tae **** we’re not thinking about keeping Limbikisa. Defensively hes all over the place. No danger is Sibbick conceding that goal and he gets slaughtered on here frequently 

Got to agree with you on Dexter. We got a bit carried away with his debut against a lower level team. Has had the odd moment since, but has now cost us goals in two consecutive games. If that was Sibbick this place would be in meltdown! 

He's a young player but why we would want to improve somebody else's player is beyond me. I don't rate Atkinson that highly, but one things for sure, he ain't going to get any better sitting on the bench. 

A proper RB is needed in the summer and not a loanee. 

[Jambof3tornado]

8 hours ago, merrymac said:

But he also made lots of excellent forward runs not picked up by his team mates. Also constantly shows for the ball . Getting caught will disappear with a bit of experience at this level.

i have  high hopes for the boy 

We've seen several youngsters appear then vanish,I'm not sure Tait gets much game time next season.

[JimmyCant]

3 minutes ago, tiger Rudi said:

Got to agree with you on Dexter. We got a bit carried away with his debut against a lower level team. Has had the odd moment since, but has now cost us goals in two consecutive games. If that was Sibbick this place would be in meltdown! 

He's a young player but why we would want to improve somebody else's player is beyond me. I don't rate Atkinson that highly, but one things for sure, he ain't going to get any better sitting on the bench. 

A proper RB is needed in the summer and not a loanee. 

He needs someone to convert him to an out and out winger with little or no defensive duties. He’s reasonably quick and he’s got a trick and he can deliver a ball, but his defensive vision and positioning and awareness are really flawed. No chance is he ever playing wing back in the EPL.

[JAYEL]

Great Team effort today

 

Deserved 3 points

 

🇱🇻❤️🇱🇻

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, Morgan said:

Apart from the ‘wee’ bit.

 

👀

 

Just a small mistake. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Even if someone is taking a red for the team he’s got to be brought down before he hits the box. Doesnt

matter at the end of the day I suppose and the boy was strong and quick to finish it but we’ve had 4 opportunities to prevent a goal there and we’ve made 4 mistakes to concede. Sloppy all round.

 

I hope tae **** we’re not thinking about keeping Limbikisa. Defensively hes all over the place. No danger is Sibbick conceding that goal and he gets slaughtered on here frequently 

I think we need two RBs next season as the options currently are not good enough. 

Edited April 6 by Pasquale for King

[Pasquale for King]

43 minutes ago, Jambof3tornado said:

We've seen several youngsters appear then vanish,I'm not sure Tait gets much game time next season.

More than Denholm hopefully 

[portobellojambo1]

I think that at times today we maybe made it a bit more complicated than it had to be. But we got the 3 points and that is the end requirement in every match, but not every game is identical. In some wverything you try works, but then games like today come around where you just have to dig in and scrap for everything.

[Pasquale for King]

39 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

He needs someone to convert him to an out and out winger with little or no defensive duties. He’s reasonably quick and he’s got a trick and he can deliver a ball, but his defensive vision and positioning and awareness are really flawed. No chance is he ever playing wing back in the EPL.

Not sure why we haven’t tried him playing ahead of Sibbick or Atkinson down that side. 

[JimmyCant]

26 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think we need two RBs next season as the options currently are not good enough. 

Ideally, but Atkinson as understudy to someone of real quality would be acceptable. Atkinson I reckon could be coached into a serviceable RB/RWB. It’s just impossible to see that in Dexter. The boys a winger.

[JimmyCant]

30 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Not sure why we haven’t tried him playing ahead of Sibbick or Atkinson down that side. 

Probably because when we’ve used right hand forward width it’s been Oda. Maybe it’s part of the loan agreement that we don’t try and convert him. Who knows but it just seems so bleedin obvious now he’s had a dozen games

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Ideally, but Atkinson as understudy to someone of real quality would be acceptable. Atkinson I reckon could be coached into a serviceable RB/RWB. It’s just impossible to see that in Dexter. The boys a winger.

Can’t agree about Atkinson, he’s been here two years and hasn’t progressed at all. I think he has 3 goals and assists in those two years, none this season. RN had seen enough and was getting shot of him, SN is now in the same boat. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Probably because when we’ve used right hand forward width it’s been Oda. Maybe it’s part of the loan agreement that we don’t try and convert him. Who knows but it just seems so bleedin obvious now he’s had a dozen games

Absolutely 

[pettigrewsstylist]

19 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Can’t agree about Atkinson, he’s been here two years and hasn’t progressed at all. I think he has 3 goals and assists in those two years, none this season. RN had seen enough and was getting shot of him, SN is now in the same boat. 

Suspect this to be true. Semi selection  is a pickle when both in this form.

[Carter]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Cochrane passing the goal scorer on to Dexter wasn’t great defending either. 

He did the same in the Derby where he passed Miller on to Kingsley when he was his man. Dexter is clearly not great at the goal but if Cochrane makes a proper challenge it allows Dexter to take a step back and potentially take control of the situation. You don't abdicate responsibility in that situation and put the last man in jeopardy.

[stuart500]

2 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

He needs someone to convert him to an out and out winger with little or no defensive duties. He’s reasonably quick and he’s got a trick and he can deliver a ball, but his defensive vision and positioning and awareness are really flawed. No chance is he ever playing wing back in the EPL.

Rotherham fans told us this and were spot on.  His first duty is to be defensively solid but sadly he's just not.

I think he has talent but he's not what we needed in January as competition for Atkinson. Hopefully we have someone else lined up for next season.

 

[gregzy2k7]

Well played Jambos,

 

Should have been more comfortable though, we actually should have scored about 4 or 5 there, we absolutely dominated them in terrible conditions I thought.

 

Really like the look of Vargas, think he is going to be a great player for us, even though he didn't score, I thought he played very well.

 

Well in,

 

Also will be great to go into the semi off the back of hopefully 2 good wins and some decent form.

 

[McCrae]

8 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Ideally, but Atkinson as understudy to someone of real quality would be acceptable. Atkinson I reckon could be coached into a serviceable RB/RWB. It’s just impossible to see that in Dexter. The boys a winger.

A major weakness with Atkinson is his poor ball control, that heavy first touch and inability to get a ball under control quickly is a real issue. At his age it’s difficult for him to get to the level required even with good coaching.

[jock _turd]

10 hours ago, john thomas said:

Responding to you saying 'he has used his arm to block the ball' ?

Implies he intended to . Obviously he didn't. 

 

 

Yes but I would say two things .

Firstly had the ref seen the ball contact the arm he would have given a penalty and if he had noone in the ground would have had cause to argue it is the fact that VAR gives rise to any compaint.

The second if a player attacks the ball in the way the St M player did arm in the air he is immediately increasing the chance that he will block the ball with his arm... a cynic would say that is a good way of committing an unintentional hand ball and it has to be a penalty for that very reason.

[JimmyCant]

19 minutes ago, McCrae said:

A major weakness with Atkinson is his poor ball control, that heavy first touch and inability to get a ball under control quickly is a real issue. At his age it’s difficult for him to get to the level required even with good coaching.

We’re very rarely going to get a player in any position who’s got everything required and if we do, we’re probably not keeping him long.

 

However that’s the 3rd season running  that RB/RWB has been a pretty weak position for us so that’s right up there with the big summer priorities IMO.

[casper]

10 hours ago, john thomas said:

Responding to you saying 'he has used his arm to block the ball' ?

Implies he intended to . Obviously he didn't. 

 

Many years ago I did an SFA refereeing course and used to ref Sunday league games. The guy taking the course would say in this situation that it is your arm, it is attached to you and you are controlling it so if you put your arm there it must be deliberate.

Edited April 7 by casper

[Pasquale for King]

10 hours ago, Carter said:

He did the same in the Derby where he passed Miller on to Kingsley when he was his man. Dexter is clearly not great at the goal but if Cochrane makes a proper challenge it allows Dexter to take a step back and potentially take control of the situation. You don't abdicate responsibility in that situation and put the last man in jeopardy.

Absolutely 

[FarmerTweedy]

17 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Scott Fraser is? How would we know as he’s barely had a chance. To move Grant up top then replace him with Fraser was bizarre really, but If Tagawa isn’t up to it then you have to question the money we’ve wasted him. 

You really don't have to. You can if you want, of course, but it'd be more sensible to just accept that some signings just won't work out as the recruitment team and management/coaching team hoped, and instead be happy with the fact that we're well clear in 3rd place and with not much bigger a gap to the top two than to 4th and 5th despite having a budget for the football side that's a small fraction of the two biggest budgets, and probably only slightly bigger, if indeed it's bigger at all, than the 4th and 5th biggest budgets (it's possible ours might actually be slightly smaller than that of Aberdeen or the vermin, simply comparing total staff costs doesn't tell the whole story).