Turning Point

[innerjambo]

Is this the time when we finally nail 3rd, and make it our own, with a gap to the opposition, and a forever growing gap 

Is this summer transfer window where we move way ahead of the chasing pack, and solidify our grip on 3rd, while moving closer to the OF? 

The club seem to be making the right noises. SN seems to be making the right noises. 

This summer window is extremely important, and I hope we grab it by the balls!!!

Edited April 4 by innerjambo

[Polonia Gorgie]

I think we've already been very shrewd getting in Dhanda, Spittal and Penrice. I'm worried if Shankland doesn't sign a new deal and we cannae replace him, he could be the difference between 3rd and average 

[May98]

42 minutes ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

I think we've already been very shrewd getting in Dhanda, Spittal and Penrice. I'm worried if Shankland doesn't sign a new deal and we cannae replace him, he could be the difference between 3rd and average 

I disagree.  They three players will add to our squad but they won't be any difference makers.  They will suit a budget to hopefully allow us to bring in better players to take as above and beyond. 

 

If any of them three signed for Aberdeen last season when they came first then absolutely nobody would claim they signings take them a level above us.

 

Shankland has been the difference maker this season as has our defence.   He and Cochrane leaving could be a bit of a nightmare.   Vargas on a long term is beautiful though.  We need more signings like him and Hoff to step up to the plate when Shanks is gone.

[GinRummy]

2 hours ago, May98 said:

I disagree.  They three players will add to our squad but they won't be any difference makers.  They will suit a budget to hopefully allow us to bring in better players to take as above and beyond. 

 

If any of them three signed for Aberdeen last season when they came first then absolutely nobody would claim they signings take them a level above us.

 

Shankland has been the difference maker this season as has our defence.   He and Cochrane leaving could be a bit of a nightmare.   Vargas on a long term is beautiful though.  We need more signings like him and Hoff to step up to the plate when Shanks is gone.

Good post. You’ve nailed it with the last paragraph. 
 

Too early to talk about opening up huge gaps as Shankland has made a huge difference which makes us vulnerable, to an extent, if he leaves or is injured. 

[fabienleclerq]

So you'd imagine Shankland leaves this summer, Miovski surely wants out of Aberdeen too. If both those happen I think we are still in a better position than Aberdeen but have Europe to deal with which will hamper us in the league no doubt. 

 

We need to recruit a striker which every man and their dog does too, if Mr savage has been doing his homework hopefully we have someone in mind as he's known a while Shankland is likely away.

 

Aberdeen will be hoping for a good £5m for miovski and then Ferguson moving. Tough one for them how they spend it but they keep losing money yet need to spend to get third. Then there's the stadium they can't finance and a new manager who'll want cash to spend.

 

Hibs total unknown what they'll do in the summer, their loans won't be staying so I'd expect a bit of an overhaul there. Depending what they do they'll be our rivals for third I reckon, they can't be as bad as this year surely. 

 

I'd say talk of pulling away is premature while we haven't managed it two years on the bounce. I'd say three or four years in a row and you could if we spend the European money wisely.  Always think there must be Eastern European players we could sign.

[johnking123]

4 hours ago, Polonia Gorgie said:

I think we've already been very shrewd getting in Dhanda, Spittal and Penrice. I'm worried if Shankland doesn't sign a new deal and we cannae replace him, he could be the difference between 3rd and average 

We have done it without shankland before only couple of seasons ago. We will be fine.

[Dazo]

2 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Good post. You’ve nailed it with the last paragraph. 
 

Too early to talk about opening up huge gaps as Shankland has made a huge difference which makes us vulnerable, to an extent, if he leaves or is injured. 

You think it is ? I disagree and think 2 of the signings will add goals and assists we currently don’t have. We need to spread our goals about the team and those 2 will help with that imo. Still believe big signings to come but those are a great start. 

[By The Light..]

Turning point for me would be turning up ready to beat the rangers at Hampden 

[Howdy Doody Jambo]

4 minutes ago, By The Light.. said:

Turning point for me would be turning up ready to beat the rangers at Hampden 

100% don't think we have ever beaten them at Hampden that would make a statement

Football is all about results and you can dress up player's and performance as much as you like it doesn't matter how the goals go in or where in the team from one player or from throughout the team as long as you don't concede also , playing in Europe next season and hopefully we now know the script on how to manage this demand 

[jamboozy]

Ready to be confirmed third this year and ready to beat the rangers at Hampden for the 1st time .

[PapaShango]

1 hour ago, fabienleclerq said:

So you'd imagine Shankland leaves this summer, Miovski surely wants out of Aberdeen too. If both those happen I think we are still in a better position than Aberdeen but have Europe to deal with which will hamper us in the league no doubt. 

 

We need to recruit a striker which every man and their dog does too, if Mr savage has been doing his homework hopefully we have someone in mind as he's known a while Shankland is likely away.

 

Aberdeen will be hoping for a good £5m for miovski and then Ferguson moving. Tough one for them how they spend it but they keep losing money yet need to spend to get third. Then there's the stadium they can't finance and a new manager who'll want cash to spend.

 

Hibs total unknown what they'll do in the summer, their loans won't be staying so I'd expect a bit of an overhaul there. Depending what they do they'll be our rivals for third I reckon, they can't be as bad as this year surely. 

 

I'd say talk of pulling away is premature while we haven't managed it two years on the bounce. I'd say three or four years in a row and you could if we spend the European money wisely.  Always think there must be Eastern European players we could sign.

We need to learn from the mistakes of when we were in group stages last time. Lack of cover especially in defence killed our season, we simply have to recruit better quality in all positions across the squad who can come in and out the team and make an impact. Very much going to be a squad game next season bar one or two positions.

[PapaShango]

2 minutes ago, jamboozy said:

Ready to be confirmed third this year and ready to beat the rangers at Hampden for the 1st time .

Have surely got to beat them there at some point. Win the semi final and I think we win the cup. I have this dream we beat the sheep in the final wearing our anniversary strip in our 150th year. That would be glorious. You keep knocking on the door in semis and finals and eventually one will fall your way, hopefully this is the year.

[Dazo]

Just now, PapaShango said:

Have surely got to beat them there at some point. Win the semi final and I think we win the cup. I have this dream we beat the sheep in the final wearing our anniversary strip in our 150th year. That would be glorious. You keep knocking on the door in semis and finals and eventually one will fall your way, hopefully this is the year.

Correct and should be the reason everyone should be buying a ticket. I’d be gutted to miss beating rangers at Hampden. 

[jamboozy]

Just now, PapaShango said:

Have surely got to beat them there at some point. Win the semi final and I think we win the cup. I have this dream we beat the sheep in the final wearing our anniversary strip in our 150th year. That would be glorious. You keep knocking on the door in semis and finals and eventually one will fall your way, hopefully this is the year.

Agree. If we show up with the mindset to remove this record of always being defeated by the Huns at Hampden we will do it, we have the skills to do so and a manager who, I believe, is a winner through and through.

    Regarding your comment on beating the sheep in the final, I would absolutely be dancing if we did that.

[TexasAndy]

4-6 points from next two games should seal 3rd.  As for Hampden, well like everyone else I just want us to turn up and compete.  Would be a bonus if Tavernier missed the game somehow as he's usually the one that comes up with goods for them in the big games.

[Big Moysey]

Before everyone gets too carried away. We have 1 win, 2 draws and 2 defeats, 5 goals for and 9 against in our last 5 league games.

Our fixtures are going to be tough until the end of season. We need to consolidate until then, turn up in semi, keep winning games, tighten up defensively and then resolve the Shankland situation (sell, run down contract or renew) then we'll be at the turning point.

We are in a strong position, here's hoping 🙏 

[GinRummy]

55 minutes ago, Dazo said:

You think it is ? I disagree and think 2 of the signings will add goals and assists we currently don’t have. We need to spread our goals about the team and those 2 will help with that imo. Still believe big signings to come but those are a great start. 

They might. There's a big difference between playing for Ross County and Motherwell to playing for Hearts. I think Shankland will leave so any goal threat we can bring in is a good thing.

 

The original poster mentioned an ever growing gap. I think we are a way off getting to that stage. Credit to the players this season for finding a way to win matches and credit to Shanks for scoring all the goals but we've been involved in a lot of close games and I expect the same next season.

[TexasAndy]

4 minutes ago, Big Moysey said:

Before everyone gets too carried away. We have 1 win, 2 draws and 2 defeats, 5 goals for and 9 against in our last 5 league games.

Our fixtures are going to be tough until the end of season. We need to consolidate until then, turn up in semi, keep winning games, tighten up defensively and then resolve the Shankland situation (sell, run down contract or renew) then we'll be at the turning point.

We are in a strong position, here's hoping 🙏 

Yeah in the same way we didn't get carried away with our 12 game unbeaten run from mid December to mid Feb.

[sac]

Only just missing out on 3rd after our sojourn in Europe, compared to the sheep this season who have flirted with the play off position at times & Bournemouth D in 7th.

A decent transfer window, & I think we could cope with Europe & get 3rd again next season.

 

[CostaJambo]

Biggest thing for me is bringing in intelligent players who understand exactly what role they are expected to play. There will be lots of squad rotation while we have the European midweek games (hopefully) so it is vital that players who do not start every game can slot in effortlessly when needed.

[johnking123]

Think we will get 3-4 real quality players in. Think Naismith would be fuming if we don't get a real RB. Then CB, CM and CF. Need a really strong core and two reliable CB will give us freedom to move forward in games.

[Opinionated Jambo]

7 hours ago, innerjambo said:

Is this the time when we finally nail 3rd, and make it our own, with a gap to the opposition, and a forever growing gap 

Is this summer transfer window where we move way ahead of the chasing pack, and solidify our grip on 3rd, while moving closer to the OF? 

The club seem to be making the right noises. SN seems to be making the right noises. 

This summer window is extremely important, and I hope we grab it by the balls!!!

I agree with everything you say. I do think we will finish 3rd this year. Okay, we still have the split fixtures to play but so does the other 3 teams below us and I can’t see anyone getting near enough maximum points and us having a nightmare to blow 3rd - not this year. 
 

This season is definitely a foundation to build on for next season. I agree the 3 signings in Dhanda, Penrice and Spittal have all been sensible free signings. The reality is there is going to be change in the summer at the club, there might be a player or 2 that might leave that we might not want to leave - i.e Shankland and Cochrane for example. 
 

My biggest fear for next season is with change and we don’t do as well as this season you will get fans demanding a managerial change etc. Even though we have been brilliant for most of this season, Hibs and Aberdeen for example have been shocking 

[johnking123]

To me, turning point is how much money we bring in. Building new stand because our capacity is not enough. That is next turning point.

[CMc]

Kinda hard to add much to the thread other than constantly saying we need a 9, a 2 and a 6. 
 

So instead, here are Spittal and Dhanda’s assist stats vs season one Barrie McKay. 
 

Given all three are quite different players, the numbers are very similar. Having multiple creative players is going to make a massive difference. 
 

If we do keep Shanks, opponents will 100% not be able to double mark our threats anymore. 

[jamboinglasgow]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

You think it is ? I disagree and think 2 of the signings will add goals and assists we currently don’t have. We need to spread our goals about the team and those 2 will help with that imo. Still believe big signings to come but those are a great start. 

 

Completely agree with this. I do think we will spend more money this summer and get a few "higher level" players. But its about the sum of all parts in a team that makes a difference and all 3 signings can put great balls in. We have been lacking in creativity this year which meant we have found it hard to break teams down, with McKay injured we needed someone else, Dhanda does that, Spittal is creative but is a real threat around the box which will make a difference. Basically these players will improve attacking players around them.

 

As for this being a turning points, no idea as there are times before I thought we were about to move to secure third place long term but never planned out. We will know this time next year.

 

I do think we have a lot things in our favour. More money then ever before, a well organised club both on and off the pitch, looking like youngsters are coming through, likely to be able sell players this summer while knowing that money goes back to the football side. Recruitment will be key this summer, so far so good for us and if we fill the positions that need sorted with quality then there is no reason why we could not kick on.

[Heartsofgold]

4 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

To me, turning point is how much money we bring in. Building new stand because our capacity is not enough. That is next turning point.

I understand where you're coming from JK but where do you think we will be able to build a new stand?

 

Only the Wheatfield and that would involve buy, at least a sizable portion if not all of, the community pitch behind it.

 

As I've stated before, there's also the H & S assessment that was in place for the Main Stand redevelopment.  The ethanol tanks from the distillery are a major hurdle for any future redevelopment of the Wheatfield, and would probably require them to be moved by them before any further expansion of our capacity was even looked at by the council.

 

All in all, this is a project that could cost in excess of £30 million now, which we don't have anywhere near and we would not want to go into heavy debt again for this, probably to the detriment of the playing squad.

 

[johnking123]

3 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

I understand where you're coming from JK but where do you think we will be able to build a new stand?

 

Only the Wheatfield and that would involve buy, at least a sizable portion if not all of, the community pitch behind it.

 

As I've stated before, there's also the H & S assessment that was in place for the Main Stand redevelopment.  The ethanol tanks from the distillery are a major hurdle for any future redevelopment of the Wheatfield, and would probably require them to be moved by them before any further expansion of our capacity was even looked at by the council.

 

All in all, this is a project that could cost in excess of £30 million now, which we don't have anywhere near and we would not want to go into heavy debt again for this, probably to the detriment of the playing squad.

 

Our finances have improved massively.  Should be getting over £20 million without cash from Europe or benefactors.  Next stage is to try getting over £30 million without help eventually. Upping capacity will be hard. But is next turning point in my eyes. This also means we doing well playing side of things.

 

 

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, johnking123 said:

Our finances have improved massively.  Should be getting over £20 million without cash from Europe or benefactors.  Next stage is to try getting over £30 million without help eventually. Upping capacity will be hard. But is next turning point in my eyes. This also means we doing well playing side of things.

 

 

But having £30 million in available cash is far different from have £30 million in turnover.  The club will not want to saddle itself with a sizable debt for a project we cannot guarantee if going to produce a 10-15 year return on that capital investment.

[johnking123]

3 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

But having £30 million in available cash is far different from have £30 million in turnover.  The club will not want to saddle itself with a sizable debt for a project we cannot guarantee if going to produce a 10-15 year return on that capital investment.

Benefactors, FOH will hopefully still a big part. Edinburgh is growing, staying stagnant would be cost us more in the long run.

[Bad Religion]

I’m excited for the summer transfer window and next season. 
 

First time I’ve been able to say this in years. 

[RustyRightPeg]

55 minutes ago, johnking123 said:

To me, turning point is how much money we bring in. Building new stand because our capacity is not enough. That is next turning point.

 

I agree. 

 

Unsure how viable it would've been but getting our hands on the school end and making something more of it would've been a massive step. Appears we've missed that boat now. 

 

We can't go out the way, a shrewd architect would suss it out. Maybe we go down the way?

[B4 Part B]

1 hour ago, johnking123 said:

Think we will get 3-4 real quality players in. Think Naismith would be fuming if we don't get a real RB. Then CB, CM and CF. Need a really strong core and two reliable CB will give us freedom to move forward in games.

I think and hope you're right.

 

The tightening up of the defence has been massive for us this season. A quality RB strengthens that further, and while I think we've got decent CB options, another quality CB would make us extremely difficult to break down.

 

A quality CM and CF would give us a great spine to the team. I've a sneaky feeling Shanks stays another year, but I still think we need a quality player in there to either compliment him, injury cover, or to settle in before Shanks does go.

 

On the point of us being in a turning point, solidifying 3rd etc. I think Aberdeen and Hibs will be much better next year than this year (they can't get much worse!), we need to be ready for the challenge, I think it will be tight, we'll all be in the mix, so no, I don't think this is the point we leave them all behind.

[Dazo]

1 hour ago, GinRummy said:

They might. There's a big difference between playing for Ross County and Motherwell to playing for Hearts. I think Shankland will leave so any goal threat we can bring in is a good thing.

 

The original poster mentioned an ever growing gap. I think we are a way off getting to that stage. Credit to the players this season for finding a way to win matches and credit to Shanks for scoring all the goals but we've been involved in a lot of close games and I expect the same next season.

Surely we have to assume they will continue to do that, that’s the basis for all signings I would have thought. You see what they do for other teams and sign them to do the same or better for us. 
 

I think we are not at that point yet but we are certainly building towards that and sealed 3rd again this season and we can grow that gap a little more. Signing players who have shone in this league from rivals is part of growing that gap imo. 

[loveofthegame]

The realist in me says no - there is zero evidence of it having been possible in my lifetime, no club has ever had sustained 'success' outside of the OF or held on to the higher placings in the league for any extended period of time (if you take Aberdeen's run out during the period of Rangers and our financial woes).

 

Losing Shankland will likely be an irreplaceable hit. We'll also likely have a lot of European fixtures, which in the last two years has seriously impacted us and Aberdeen in the league.

 

I suspect Hibs will strengthen and be dangerous. Aberdeen unknown quantity depending on who they appoint as manager, but will likely sell Miovski and reinvest so will also likely be a threat. Killie have a brilliant manager and impressive squad and will undoubtedly be top 6 again.

 

So we've a lot of work to do, none more so than likely having to replace Shankland's goals (not necessarily all via one player though...).

 

Turning point? I doubt it. But we should be right up there or thereabouts again. And that in itself is success to a degree (having finished 3rd, 4th, [3rd] in the last three seasons, which is in itself progress).

[Jim_Duncan]

4 hours ago, johnking123 said:

We have done it without shankland before only couple of seasons ago. We will be fine.

Excellent point. We strolled third without him and can do so again. The other players seem a little to desperate to get the ball to him at times, rather than taking responsibility. Spittal should add goals from midfield, and Dhanda too. If we can use the extra cash to recruit someone who scores even 60% of Shankland’s goals we’ll be in a very strong position. 
 

I trust Naismith to provide solid input to the recruitment guys about exactly what he wants and needs. 

[jamboinglasgow]

42 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Excellent point. We strolled third without him and can do so again. The other players seem a little to desperate to get the ball to him at times, rather than taking responsibility. Spittal should add goals from midfield, and Dhanda too. If we can use the extra cash to recruit someone who scores even 60% of Shankland’s goals we’ll be in a very strong position. 
 

I trust Naismith to provide solid input to the recruitment guys about exactly what he wants and needs. 

 

Would agree.

 

I'm not saying that Shankland is not good, he obviously is and a real talent, especially to hit so many goals. But goals still count whoever scores it. So you may not need to replace Shankland with another 30 goal a season striker. As you say, it may allow a change in style that brings in other players who can contribute and sign a striker who fits the system better. Obviously the worry is losing Shankland where he was able to find a goal when we have been struggling in a game.

[Cruickie's Moustache]

Happy with Dhanda, Spittal and Penrice.

Players who know the league and can hit the ground running.

Hopefully will see them flourish in what should be a higher grade of team than they have been playing for to date.

Better them in our squad than being elsewhere.

Clearly need a few other additions but we have the basis of a good solid experienced squad who know what is exepcted from them.

Others will try and stengthen but every new signing will be an unknown qualntity.

Even if Shankland does go, we have the advantage of a decent squad and we are just tinkering around the edges as opposed to doing total rebuilds.

Added to that, we are not in the situation where we need to sell to survive and if we do let players go it should hopefully be for good money that can be reinvested for decent replacements.

 

I for one are optimisitc we can continue to push ahead to maintain the gap between the best of the rest.

[GinRummy]

1 hour ago, Dazo said:

Surely we have to assume they will continue to do that, that’s the basis for all signings I would have thought. You see what they do for other teams and sign them to do the same or better for us. 
 

I think we are not at that point yet but we are certainly building towards that and sealed 3rd again this season and we can grow that gap a little more. Signing players who have shone in this league from rivals is part of growing that gap imo. 

No I personally wouldn’t assume that. Every player we bring in we’d hope would make us better, sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t and sometimes they take a while to settle and I include Halkett and Forrest who we signed from premier rivals

 

i pretty much agree with the last paragraph and think we should look at players in our league. 
 

 

[johnking123]

15 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

No I personally wouldn’t assume that. Every player we bring in we’d hope would make us better, sometimes they do, sometimes they don’t and sometimes they take a while to settle and I include Halkett and Forrest who we signed from premier rivals

 

i pretty much agree with the last paragraph and think we should look at players in our league. 
 

 

Yip, Spittal could be fantastic or just the next kevin twaddle 

[davemclaren]

There have been quite a few 'turning points' during the many decades I've supported Hearts.  None were ever permanent or even particularly long lasting. 🥸

[jock _turd]

11 hours ago, innerjambo said:

Is this the time when we finally nail 3rd, and make it our own, with a gap to the opposition, and a forever growing gap 

Is this summer transfer window where we move way ahead of the chasing pack, and solidify our grip on 3rd, while moving closer to the OF? 

The club seem to be making the right noises. SN seems to be making the right noises. 

This summer window is extremely important, and I hope we grab it by the balls!!!

 

Clearly you have not been following events doon Lieff. They have a new guy who is going to be poughing Bazillions into the playing budget oor arse is in a sling I am afraid!😂

[jock _turd]

56 minutes ago, Cruickie's Moustache said:

Happy with Dhanda, Spittal and Penrice.

Players who know the league and can hit the ground running.

Hopefully will see them flourish in what should be a higher grade of team than they have been playing for to date.

Better them in our squad than being elsewhere.

Clearly need a few other additions but we have the basis of a good solid experienced squad who know what is exepcted from them.

Others will try and stengthen but every new signing will be an unknown qualntity.

Even if Shankland does go, we have the advantage of a decent squad and we are just tinkering around the edges as opposed to doing total rebuilds.

Added to that, we are not in the situation where we need to sell to survive and if we do let players go it should hopefully be for good money that can be reinvested for decent replacements.

 

I for one are optimisitc we can continue to push ahead to maintain the gap between the best of the rest.

 

The only problem I have with this type of player is that they think " playing for the Hearts! I have made it ... switch off"

Edited April 4 by jock _turd

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

The only problem I have with this type of player is that they think " playing for the Hearts! I have made it ... switch off"

How do you know that? 😄

[johnking123]

If we play in europen group stages next season and finish third again. That would be very impressiv. But it all comes down to money. Money is only going to take us to next step.

[jock _turd]

Just now, davemclaren said:

How do you know that? 😄

 

I don't but it might 😂 We have signed umpteen players who had shown promise but as soon as they got to Hearts fell flat.

[davemclaren]

5 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

I don't but it might 😂 We have signed umpteen players who had shown promise but as soon as they got to Hearts fell flat.

👍

[Bull's-eye]

"Turning point" insinuates a problem.

 

So, no, not having that.

 

Steady growth on and off the pitch is the only way to progress.

[CaptainShanks]

If it hadn't been for a fall out in the camp last season we would be talking about a third successive third placed finish. We have ran away with it this season as we did in 21/22. And we were miles clear in third last year until Aberdeen went on a ridiculous run of form. We have turned the corner since coming up from the Championship already. 

 

Aberdeen and Hibs are bankrupting themselves trying to keep up with us. 

 

Edited April 4 by CaptainShanks

[jambopilms]

We need to regularly be better than those below us. Too many games this season we have been pretty average and Shanklands finishing has rescued us. We should be out playing the bottom 6 quite easily but rarely do.

 

Doesn't help that half the teams have adopted an anti football, park the bus system but we should be good enough to combat that.

 

Competing with the OF is just fantasy stuff.

[busbyfth]

3 hours ago, Heartsofgold said:

I understand where you're coming from JK but where do you think we will be able to build a new stand?

 

Only the Wheatfield and that would involve buy, at least a sizable portion if not all of, the community pitch behind it.

 

As I've stated before, there's also the H & S assessment that was in place for the Main Stand redevelopment.  The ethanol tanks from the distillery are a major hurdle for any future redevelopment of the Wheatfield, and would probably require them to be moved by them before any further expansion of our capacity was even looked at by the council.

 

All in all, this is a project that could cost in excess of £30 million now, which we don't have anywhere near and we would not want to go into heavy debt again for this, probably to the detriment of the playing squad.

 

"community" pitch is land owned by the distillery which is ultimately owned by Diageo/Edrington Group so little chance of buying a large plot. (they let the local community use it for very well meant/kind PR purposes) Re the tanks being restrictive - dont give up hope, as just a few years ago the thought of flats being built where the old Tynie school is was purely fantasy, (as severe restrictions were in place due to a number of safety things including the tanks) but after careful negotiations thats exactly whats now been passed by the council/HSE/parties concerned.,,,,,,,so all bets arent off, 👍 as flats are now the order of the day.