HCA

[Gizmo]

1 hour ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Alternatively, she's a highly successful author who fights to defend women's rights whilst idiots like Humza seek to undermine them while jealous bitter people post garbage about her online.

I'm literally seething  , quite surprised I haven't gone pink in the face and burst a blood vessel. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go out into the back garden and burn some Harry Potter Blu-rays. 
 

1 hour ago, Tazio said:

This doesn’t make much sense to me. You’re saying dour unionists are all for trans rights and against self made successful people? 

It's a revolving door of beliefs with this poster, it would not surprise me if he has changed it already  

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Gizmo said:

I'm literally seething  , quite surprised I haven't gone pink in the face and burst a blood vessel. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go out into the back garden and burn some Harry Potter Blu-rays. 
 

It's a revolving door of beliefs with this poster, it would not surprise me if he has changed it already  

Dry your tears ! JK wiped  the floor with people like you . 

[Pete Elliott]

4 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

It's a revolving door of beliefs with this poster, it would not surprise me if he has changed it already  

Edited April 4 by Pete Elliott

[i wish jj was my dad]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I think that's where we differ.  I don't think projecting hate or feeling hate should be a crime.  It's completely ****ing dumb and best left for loser sadsacks, but that's a different issue.

 

I don't think 'feeling' hate is criminal but I do think 'projecting' can and should be if it crosses a particular line. 

I'd like to think that we would prosecute a 21st century Hitler for repeatedly attacking 'the jew' and the sort of stuff Enoch Powell stirred up in the 60s.

I think you are right about the sadsack though.  The indications from the FM and the police is that the bar is pretty high so unpleasant, offensive and bigoted losers they may be but probably not criminal. 

 

[manaliveits105]

3 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

The separatists on here have been trying to enforce that snp mantra on non believers for years .

[doctor jambo]

7 hours ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

Others may have a different view but my interpretation is that repeatedly referring to groups and individuals as f*nian or orange b'stards because of the team they support or church they associate with would be in the eyes of most reasonable people constitute a crime of hate.  

It is openly displayed and witnessed by police and media every week. If the authorities were inclined to tackle it they could. 

The legislation dances around the head of that pin by deliberately excluding language designed to shock and offend.

So all the sectarian stuff is OK, because that is all it does .

there is no way on this earth a govt was ever going to pass legislation without a get out for sectarianism .

which is why it’s never gone away.

 

 

[i wish jj was my dad]

5 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The legislation dances around the head of that pin by deliberately excluding language designed to shock and offend.

So all the sectarian stuff is OK, because that is all it does .

there is no way on this earth a govt was ever going to pass legislation without a get out for sectarianism .

which is why it’s never gone away.

 

 

There was a half arsed attempt with the offensive behaviour act which is the closest any govt of any colour has come to tackling it but by making it about football rather than universal the spokesman for the hooped bigots demonstrated the power that the OF have not just in football but across society. 

Although most prominent at football sectarianism goes much wider than that.

The place to start would be where we educate our children and doing away with separate schools. Ain't happening though. 

[Hmfc1965]

43 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The legislation dances around the head of that pin by deliberately excluding language designed to shock and offend.

So all the sectarian stuff is OK, because that is all it does .

there is no way on this earth a govt was ever going to pass legislation without a get out for sectarianism .

which is why it’s never gone away.

 

 

It does not "exclude language designed to shock or offend ".

It allows the expression of views which may do so in accordance with the ECHR.

That is not an automatic get out for sectarianism.

[Hmfc1965]

29 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

There was a half arsed attempt with the offensive behaviour act which is the closest any govt of any colour has come to tackling it but by making it about football rather than universal the spokesman for the hooped bigots demonstrated the power that the OF have not just in football but across society. 

Although most prominent at football sectarianism goes much wider than that.

The place to start would be where we educate our children and doing away with separate schools. Ain't happening though. 

I think the problem with the Offensive Behaviour Act was that it wasn't half arsed at all and went wider than sectarianism.

A large part of the problem is what constitutes sectarianism.

The Act tried to cover that by banning Behaviour that was "Offensive ".

You then got people getting annoyed they couldn't call others sheepshaggers or gay any more.

 

[doctor jambo]

33 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

There was a half arsed attempt with the offensive behaviour act which is the closest any govt of any colour has come to tackling it but by making it about football rather than universal the spokesman for the hooped bigots demonstrated the power that the OF have not just in football but across society. 

Although most prominent at football sectarianism goes much wider than that.

The place to start would be where we educate our children and doing away with separate schools. Ain't happening though. 

Agreed .

Tackle an issue at its roots .

Show kids they are the same, and they will shed their bigotry.

All schooling should be secular.

[i wish jj was my dad]

10 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

I think the problem with the Offensive Behaviour Act was that it wasn't half arsed at all and went wider than sectarianism.

A large part of the problem is what constitutes sectarianism.

The Act tried to cover that by banning Behaviour that was "Offensive ".

You then got people getting annoyed they couldn't call others sheepshaggers or gay any more.

 

By not going all out and being up front about what it was supposed to tackle it was half arsed. I can't remember who was justice secretary at the time but in their shoes I would have been much more direct and gone after Kelly asking why he was so opposed to legislation designed to tackle religous sectarianism in Scotland. 

[Gundermann]

1 hour ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

There was a half arsed attempt with the offensive behaviour act which is the closest any govt of any colour has come to tackling it but by making it about football rather than universal the spokesman for the hooped bigots demonstrated the power that the OF have not just in football but across society. 

Although most prominent at football sectarianism goes much wider than that.

The place to start would be where we educate our children and doing away with separate schools. Ain't happening though. 

 

I'm all for secular education but sectarianism in Scotland has got nothing to do with Catholic schools. IIRC, they were actually set up in response to the widespread and institutional racism and sectarianism of the early/mid 20th C.

 

I would like to merge them with nondenominational schools but can't see it happening. Which politician will take that one on? Maybe the Greens?

Edited April 5 by Gundermann

[doctor jambo]

13 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

I'm all for secular education but sectarianism in Scotland has got nothing to do with Catholic schools. IIRC, they were actually set up in response to the widespread and institutional racism and sectarianism of the early/mid 20th C.

 

I would like to merge them with nondenominational schools but can't see it happening. Which politician will take that one on? Maybe the Greens?

why they were set up is not important.

its moving forward that needs to be done.

this country is mired  in the past.

get kids to mingle and they will play with each other, fall in love with each other and make friends,

than at least the "banter" becomes just that and the actual hate leaves it.

I was racist until I went to uni and met people of different races

I was homphobic until I met gay people

I was sectarian until the same ( my school had a separate catholic school in the grounds and they had different play times and lunch times)

Its virtually impossible to hate a group when you meet them and like some of them ( still crack jokes about them, but its lighthearted and reciprocal and not hateful)

[i wish jj was my dad]

7 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

I'm all for secular education but sectarianism in Scotland has got nothing to do with Catholic schools. IIRC, they were actually set up in response to the widespread and institutional racism and sectarianism of the early/mid 20th C.

 

I would like to merge them with nondenominational schools but can't see it happening. Which politician will take that one on? Maybe the Greens?

The history behind separate schools isn't really the point. I'm less interested in apportioning blame about why there was a decision to separate infants from each other than I am in tackling the effect it has on society today and in the future. I'd support your solution but given the outraged reaction from a small but noisy fringe at an attempt to protect groups from hate crime  which in reality will only impact on a tiny minority of culprits, I doubt the authorities have the stomach for tackling a problem which will have hundreds of thousands of outraged bigots mobilised by the OF and other prominent organisations. 

[i wish jj was my dad]

11 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

why they were set up is not important.

its moving forward that needs to be done.

this country is mired  in the past.

get kids to mingle and they will play with each other, fall in love with each other and make friends,

than at least the "banter" becomes just that and the actual hate leaves it.

I was racist until I went to uni and met people of different races

I was homphobic until I met gay people

I was sectarian until the same ( my school had a separate catholic school in the grounds and they had different play times and lunch times)

Its virtually impossible to hate a group when you meet them and like some of them ( still crack jokes about them, but its lighthearted and reciprocal and not hateful)

I don't agree with you very often but I think we are on the same page here. I was brought up to be a bigot and waiting outside the 'other' school for my own school bus didn't help at all.

Becoming mates with an Asian kid who joined my class at primary school helped me see how shit racism was and getting a boner about a lassie from the other school got rid of the religious shite. I worked with a gay guy early in my career and that removed any lingering homophobia so removing those barriers in infancy seem obvious to me. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

Dp

 

Edited April 5 by JudyJudyJudy

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, i wish jj was my dad said:

I don't agree with you very often but I think we are on the same page here. I was brought up to be a bigot and waiting outside the 'other' school for my own school bus didn't help at all.

Becoming mates with an Asian kid who joined my class at primary school helped me see how shit racism was and getting a boner about a lassie from the other school got rid of the religious shite. I worked with a gay guy early in my career and that removed any lingering homophobia so removing those barriers in infancy seem obvious to me. 

yep, I was born into a family of bigots and was disowned for first getting engaged to a catholic, then suffering a massive blow out for marrying someone from a working class single parent council estate family.

I wasted so much time being ridiculous as a kid.

I hate divisive politics, its removes peoples agency and makes it easier to emasculate and control the population.

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

The separatists on here have been trying to enforce that snp mantra on non believers for years .

Yes this act was  a wet dream for them . Their ire , anger and down right seethe on this and “ other social media “ platforms is a delight to witness . Back to the drawing board for  them . 

Edited April 5 by JudyJudyJudy

[JudyJudyJudy]

It’s how you are brought up . The primary “ socialisation “ unit is the family. 

[Gundermann]

30 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

why they were set up is not important.

its moving forward that needs to be done.

this country is mired  in the past.

get kids to mingle and they will play with each other, fall in love with each other and make friends,

than at least the "banter" becomes just that and the actual hate leaves it.

I was racist until I went to uni and met people of different races

I was homphobic until I met gay people

I was sectarian until the same ( my school had a separate catholic school in the grounds and they had different play times and lunch times)

Its virtually impossible to hate a group when you meet them and like some of them ( still crack jokes about them, but its lighthearted and reciprocal and not hateful)

 

Not disagreeing as such but RCC schools are fairly mixed these days. Where I live, there are 3 primary schools within a mile of each other, one Catholic. The local kids in the scheme all play with each other and go to same football club. My neighbour's kids go to the RCC school but are not Catholic. 

 

I'd happily close them but it's not gonna happen. Equally CoS interference in state schools should stop. Was unfortunate to witness a Nativity a few years back that basically told the school the earth was only 4000 years old. WtF?

[doctor jambo]

42 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Not disagreeing as such but RCC schools are fairly mixed these days. Where I live, there are 3 primary schools within a mile of each other, one Catholic. The local kids in the scheme all play with each other and go to same football club. My neighbour's kids go to the RCC school but are not Catholic. 

 

I'd happily close them but it's not gonna happen. Equally CoS interference in state schools should stop. Was unfortunate to witness a Nativity a few years back that basically told the school the earth was only 4000 years old. WtF?

we tried to get my oldest into the local RC school as it was the only reasonable one.

we were knocked back as we were not RC and schools outside our catchment knocked us back as we were outside their area.

we ended up going private as the local school was a zoo.

we need to separate church from state

all belief systems should be removed from education

schools are there to educate, not indoctrinate

[il Duce McTarkin]

45 minutes ago, Gundermann said:

 

Not disagreeing as such but RCC schools are fairly mixed these days. Where I live, there are 3 primary schools within a mile of each other, one Catholic. The local kids in the scheme all play with each other and go to same football club. My neighbour's kids go to the RCC school but are not Catholic. 

 

I'd happily close them but it's not gonna happen. Equally CoS interference in state schools should stop. Was unfortunate to witness a Nativity a few years back that basically told the school the earth was only 4000 years old. WtF?

 

I sent my kids to the nursery at the local RC school, primarilly because it is so mixed. Most of the Eastern Europen immigrants send their kids there, as do local Muslims and Sub-Saharan Africans (some of whom are refugees). I want my boys exposed tp as much diversity as possible to avoid all the shite outlined in @doctor jambo's excellent post above. Children are race/religion blind, and it fills my heart with absolute ****ing joy watching them all running about the playgrounds together. 

 

58 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I wasted so much time being ridiculous as a kid.

I hate divisive politics, its removes peoples agency and makes it easier to emasculate and control the population.

 

100% this.

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, Gundermann said:

 

I'm all for secular education but sectarianism in Scotland has got nothing to do with Catholic schools. IIRC, they were actually set up in response to the widespread and institutional racism and sectarianism of the early/mid 20th C.

 

I would like to merge them with nondenominational schools but can't see it happening. Which politician will take that one on? Maybe the Greens?

 

I don't believe that at all. Our school rivalries were with St Johns and Holyrood. Where they close in proximity? Yes...but there was 100% an additional element to it that was based on sectarianism. This manifested it otherwise completely agnostic kids getting caught up in bigotry without understanding it. Some will very much have gone on to be 90 minute bigots, some will have grown up...but it was an absolutely unnecessary division to create. Totally bonkers in this day and age 

Edited April 5 by Taffin

[Taffin]

15 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

we tried to get my oldest into the local RC school as it was the only reasonable one.

we were knocked back as we were not RC and schools outside our catchment knocked us back as we were outside their area.

we ended up going private as the local school was a zoo.

we need to separate church from state

all belief systems should be removed from education

schools are there to educate, not indoctrinate

 

I agree about educate, not indoctrinate but I think learning about religion at school is good. It creates understanding of those classmates who may be seen as different. It just needs to be taught in a non-religious way imo.

[Taffin]

Side note - for all the extremes and a few shouting from the sidelines...I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread. Good views and discussion being had. I've certainly learned some stuff after bringing the barrier down 

[boag1874]

16 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

we tried to get my oldest into the local RC school as it was the only reasonable one.

we were knocked back as we were not RC and schools outside our catchment knocked us back as we were outside their area.

we ended up going private as the local school was a zoo.

we need to separate church from state

all belief systems should be removed from education

schools are there to educate, not indoctrinate

Couldn't agree more with your last line.

 

I'm not against RE classes which tell you about the history and different beliefs of religions as I think that can be beneficial in understanding different cultures, but that's where the line should be.

[John Findlay]

As one who was educated at let's say non-denomination schools.

Royston, Almond Bank, Dalmuir West, and Pirniehall, all primary, and Roman Catholic schools, St Catherine's, St Peter's, primary, and St Thomas's for secondary education.

I can quite category say there are no differences apart from how they worship Jesus Christ. They all in Scotland, use the same language, wear the same clothes, eat the same foods.

 

As someone who has read the bible quite extensively, I don't recall Jesus Christ declaring he was either protestant or Roman Catholic.

 

So I am personally all for stopping segregation in schools here in Scotland, or anywhere else for that matter. By all means teach the differences of religions in school.

However, if an individual wants instruction in their particular religion, then they receive that at their specific place of worship, whether that be the Chapel, Kirk, Mosque, Synagogue, temple or whatever. 

Children should all mix at school.

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, John Findlay said:

As one who was educated at let's say non-denomination schools.

Royston, Almond Bank, Dalmuir West, and Pirniehall, all primary, and Roman Catholic schools, St Catherine's, St Peter's, primary, and St Thomas's for secondary education.

I can quite category say there are no differences apart from how they worship Jesus Christ. They all in Scotland, use the same language, wear the same clothes, eat the same foods.

 

As someone who has read the bible quite extensively, I don't recall Jesus Christ declaring he was either protestant or Roman Catholic.

 

So I am personally all for stopping segregation in schools here in Scotland, or anywhere else for that matter. By all means teach the differences of religions in school.

However, if an individual wants instruction in their particular religion, then they receive that at their specific place of worship, whether that be the Chapel, Kirk, Mosque, Synagogue, temple or whatever. 

Children should all mix at school.

He was Jewish . 

[JudyJudyJudy]

25 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

I sent my kids to the nursery at the local RC school, primarilly because it is so mixed. Most of the Eastern Europen immigrants send their kids there, as do local Muslims and Sub-Saharan Africans (some of whom are refugees). I want my boys exposed tp as much diversity as possible to avoid all the shite outlined in @doctor jambo's excellent post above. Children are race/religion blind, and it fills my heart with absolute ****ing joy watching them all running about the playgrounds together. 

 

 

100% this.

Good posting . 

[John Findlay]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

He was Jewish . 

By birth, yes, but he taught a new religion, which is known as Christianity, those of the Jewish faith, rejected him as their Messiah, and are still awaiting their Messiah.

No new testament in the Tanakh.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, John Findlay said:

By birth, yes, but he taught a new religion, which is known as Christianity, those of the Jewish faith, rejected him as their Messiah, and are still awaiting their Messiah.

No new testament in the Tanakh.

Fair enough . To be honest I’m not that knowledgable about most religions . The only one I know more about is Catholicism . 

[John Findlay]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

Fair enough . To be honest I’m not that knowledgable about most religions . The only one I know more about is Catholicism . 

That's enough for anyone.

[doctor jambo]

8 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

He was Jewish . 

not sure the son of god could ever have a religion.

he WAS a religion

his aim was to unite all peoples under his father

had he succeeded there would be only one religion, with no churches etc 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Keep religion out of schools.

 

That goes for Catholicism, Islam, CoS, all of them. Give the kids one lesson about what each major faith believes, and leave it at that.

 

And while we're at it, keep it balanced. My son was recently told in a lesson about religion that no-one is allowed to draw the Islamic prophet Mohamed. 

 

 

I bet he did though if he’s a chip of the old block 😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

not sure the son of god could ever have a religion.

he WAS a religion

his aim was to unite all peoples under his father

had he succeeded there would be only one religion, with no churches etc 

 

Yes so he was Jewish then . 

[doctor jambo]

9 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes so he was Jewish then . 

not really, born palestinian, killed by romans under instruction of Jews,  identified as the messiah.

he'd have a hell of a time on JKB

[JudyJudyJudy]

Just now, doctor jambo said:

not really, born palestinian, killed by romans under instruction of Jews,  identified as the messiah.

he'd have a hell of a time on JKB

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 minute ago, doctor jambo said:

not really, born palestinian, killed by romans under instruction of Jews,  identified as the messiah.

he'd have a hell of a time on JKB

 

Can we all agree that Jesus appears to have been one of the good guys?

[Dawnrazor]

5 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Can we all agree that Jesus appears to have been one of the good guys?

He certainly was the making of Tiberius & Sons, purveyors of the finest quality nails, spearheads, brackets and other Ironmongery.

Edited April 5 by Dawnrazor

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Can we all agree that Jesus appears to have been one of the good guys?

Yes he was . Any guy who mainly hangs around with 12 other guys is good in my book 😎

Edited April 5 by JudyJudyJudy

[Des Lynam]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

 

I hate divisive politics, its removes peoples agency and makes it easier to emasculate and control the population.

This. 
 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

8 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

Can we all agree that Jesus appears to have been one of the good guys?

meant I had to go to church every week for the first 14 years of my life so not really 

[manaliveits105]

If it was good enough for Big John it's good enough for me 

[henrysmithsgloves]

13 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

not really, born palestinian, killed by romans under instruction of Jews,  identified as the messiah.

he'd have a hell of a time on JKB

Was it a Scotsman that killed him? Some guy from fortingall called Pontius Pilate according to local legend 🧐

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Yes he was . Any guy who mainly hangs around with 12 other guys is good in my book 😎

 

😂

[JudyJudyJudy]

3 hours ago, Jim_Duncan said:

I decided to talk to him about Charlie Hebdo and why it is important to at least question any and all rules, especially those handed down by people who are intolerant of those rules being questioned. 

 

 

Great parenting 👍

[Mikey1874]

12 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

Yep.  I haven’t had a chance to get a proper look at the Police Scotland guidance for how to process this stuff, but the England and Wales version of the procedures is both clear and reassuring. 

 

So what seems to have happened is that Humza and Police Scotland have this week been advised of the new guidance for England and Wales and decided to follow it. Therefore changing the process whereby reports where there is no criminality will no longer be kept on file as hate incidents. The Murdo Fraser incident will no longer happen.

 

Helped by all the complaints made about JK Rowling and Humza Yousef ('all white' speech). Which Police have  confirmed will not be investigated under the new law.

 

Public service all round. 

[jack D and coke]

36 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

not really, born palestinian, killed by romans under instruction of Jews,  identified as the messiah.

he'd have a hell of a time on JKB

The wokest man to have ever lived…

Tories would have on a flight to Rwanda toot sweet. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

7 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

So what seems to have happened is that Humza and Police Scotland have this week been advised of the new guidance for England and Wales and decided to follow it. Therefore changing the process whereby reports where there is no criminality will no longer be kept on file as hate incidents. The Murdo Fraser incident will no longer happen.

 

Helped by all the complaints made about JK Rowling and Humza Yousef ('all white' speech). Which Police have  confirmed will not be investigated under the new law.

 

Public service all round. 

Hopefully this is confirmed 👍 

[manaliveits105]

Just now, JudyJudyJudy said:

Hopefully this is confirmed 👍 

Humza thrown in the towell ?