Smoking bans and human behaviour

[Ulysses]

20 years ago this week, Ireland became the first country in the world to ban smoking in all indoor public places.  

 

At the time, there was a lot of opposition to the idea, with people complaining about "the nanny state", infringement of civil liberties, and damage to the café, hotel and pub trade.  The following year, an opinion poll showed that only a third of people in the UK supported a ban on smoking in pubs.  There was even an assumption that the Irish ban would never be accepted and would be impossible to enforce.

 

But the measure was successful, and indoor smoking bans now exist throughout the developed world.  And they have become accepted in most if not all countries where they exist.

 

The article in the link looks at some of the reasons why the ban was so opposed but was still successful, and asks what that tells us about human behaviour. 

 

In a nutshell, indoor smoking used to happen everywhere because "that's just how it's done", and now it's the opposite.
 

The writer mentions how this question might be applied to things like public transport, or social media usage.

 

http://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2024/0325/1439789-ireland-smoking-ban-behaviour-change/

 

What else do we do that's like that?  What other things do we take for granted as normal or inevitable when in fact they could be changed if we wanted to?

 

 

Edited March 26 by Ulysses

[milky_26]

it is strange, i remember a couple of years after that when scotland brought it in (18 years ago today). i doubted if it would work and all the opposition. it made a massive change the day after being in the pub/nightclub not having your clothes smelling of cigarette smoke.

[Torphine]

Pavement parking. Forecasts of disaster but it’s pretty much disappeared in Edinburgh now.

[il Duce McTarkin]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

What else do we do that's like that?  What other things do we take for granted as normal or inevitable when in fact they could be changed if we wanted to?

 

 

The drink.

 

p.s. I stopped smoking around 2021 while living in Australia, and on my return to the UK the smoking ban was one of the best things that ever happened.

[Pap]

Junk food.

[milky_26]

a junk food tax is something that i think would have significant opposition but after a period of time it would be accepted and would be a good thing.

 

you could also add when it happens a move away from ICE/diesel engined vehicles

[Ulysses]

6 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

The drink.

 

p.s. I stopped smoking around 2021 while living in Australia, and on my return to the UK the smoking ban was one of the best things that ever happened.

 

In the run up to the 2004 ban here, it was interesting to see how the attitude of smokers changed when they were told that the ban wasn't to improve their health, but was to protect the health of workers who didn't smoke. It's easy enough to make an argument for your own right to smoke, but harder to argue against the right of working people to a healthier workplace environment.

 

Alcohol has been absolutely central to social life in Ireland for decades,  and as far as I can see Scotland is no different. They say consumption is falling in Ireland, but I'm not sure about that.

[FWJ]

I visited France about a week after their ban and just assumed the French would give it a big deux fingers.  I was amazed to see it was completely followed.

 

As for things that were once unthinkable and now unremarkable - gay marriage.

Edited March 26 by FWJ

[kila]

I miss the haze that gave pubs and clubs some mysteriousness. After the ban all you could smell was BO.

 

[AlimOzturk]

The difference was it made complete sense and people were already aware of the dangers second hand smoke posed. There was a total common sense plus scientific consensus for it and over time despite initial opposition people realised it really wasn’t that big a deal going outside for a fag. There was this big theory that it would completely ruin pub culture was complete nonsense. 
 

I can’t really think of another one. Maybe drinking non alcoholic lager in pubs will become more common and drinking high alcoholic beverages will become more taboo? For me there needs to be more draught non alcohol lagers for it to benefit myself. Ain’t siting with a bottle of beer in a bar. 

Edited March 26 by AlimOzturk

[JudyJudyJudy]

20 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Maybe drinking non alcoholic lager in pubs will become more common

Good idea . Read somewhere that they should have it on draught 
 

Edited March 26 by JudyJudyJudy

[JudyJudyJudy]

always hated passive smoking in shared venues . Can even remember it being a thing on buses ! Yuck . Glad I gave up on the fags a few years back . Only smoked a packet a week or something and viewed it as a “ treat “ which is the wrong way to look at it . Not at all against people making their own health choices regarding this though . 

[kila]

6 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Good idea . Read somewhere that they should have it on draught . 

 

👍

 

Study shows people will choose low-alcohol options

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ndp410evdo#:~:text=The study was carried out,of the non-alcoholic options.

 

 

Edited March 26 by kila

[AlimOzturk]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Good idea . Read somewhere that they should have it on draft .
 

I would feel much more comfortable sitting in a crowd of mates with a pint of non alcoholic lager than those bottles of 00 stuff. Strange as it is but you still get that mate who will make a snide comment or try to peer pressure you into getting a “proper” drink.
 

Least they wouldn’t know I was drinking non alcoholic lager if it was on draught. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, AlimOzturk said:

Least they wouldn’t know I was drinking non alcoholic lager if it was on draught. 

Exactly ! There’s still that silly immaturity about alcohol and non alcohol drinking . I honestly can go out to pub and not have a drink . It doesn’t bother me . Only thing is drinking sodas gasses me up etc . Can feel sickly after a while so other non alcoholic drink options should be looked at too , not just non alcoholic lager 

[milky_26]

8 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

I would feel much more comfortable sitting in a crowd of mates with a pint of non alcoholic lager than those bottles of 00 stuff. Strange as it is but you still get that mate who will make a snide comment or try to peer pressure you into getting a “proper” drink.
 

Least they wouldn’t know I was drinking non alcoholic lager if it was on draught. 

until more people start drinking them in pubs they maybe should start making them in pint sized bottles so that they can be poured into pint glasses

[GlasgoJambo]

59 minutes ago, kila said:

I miss the haze that gave pubs and clubs some mysteriousness. After the ban all you could smell was BO.

 

and farts. 
 

Yup, the hazy, smoky clubs were something else - literally in The Bongo Club back in New Street it was something else 😆

Got to say it’s tremendous going to a pub in Germany which still allows smoking - takes you right back to your youth but the stench (and the hangover) the day after - bleurgh. 

[GlasgoJambo]

I’ve just had note that Bellfield Brewery have finished kegging their 0.5% Fire Island IPA. 

Sure it’ll be available in Edinburgh pubs soon. 
 

[Taffin]

Gas central heating.

[J.T.F.Robertson]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

always hated passive smoking in shared venues . Can even remember it being a thing on busses ! Yuck . Glad I gave up on the fags a few years back . Only smoked a packet a week or something and viewed it as a “ treat “ which is the wrong way to look at it . Not at all against people making their own health choices regarding this though . 

 

Or planes.

I would puff all the way during my early days over here.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, GlasgoJambo said:

and farts. 
 

Yup, the hazy, smoky clubs were something else - literally in The Bongo Club back in New Street it was something else 😆

Got to say it’s tremendous going to a pub in Germany which still allows smoking - takes you right back to your youth but the stench (and the hangover) the day after - bleurgh. 

and getting fag burns on your good gear too. 

[ArcticJambo]

1 hour ago, GlasgoJambo said:

and farts. 
 

Yup, the hazy, smoky clubs were something else - literally in The Bongo Club back in New Street it was something else 😆

Got to say it’s tremendous going to a pub in Germany which still allows smoking - takes you right back to your youth but the stench (and the hangover) the day after - bleurgh. 

Was in Berlin for a week in February, and I didn't realise it was still a thing. Hurt my eyes after a bit!

[GlasgoJambo]

15 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

Was in Berlin for a week in February, and I didn't realise it was still a thing. Hurt my eyes after a bit!

Aye, it’s quite overwhelming, especially in some of those wee boozers - novelty factor almost worth it to see the bar man with his ashtray on the bar, puffing between serving!!

 

very alien behaviour to us now. 

 

[JWL]

2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Good idea . Read somewhere that they should have it on draught 
 

 

Horrific idea. All it takes is the barman in a busy bar to pour a couple of pints from the wrong tap and the person drives home unknowingky over the limit. Maybe stick to bottles where it's pretty clear what is being consumed.

[kila]

13 minutes ago, JWL said:

 

Horrific idea. All it takes is the barman in a busy bar to pour a couple of pints from the wrong tap and the person drives home unknowingky over the limit. Maybe stick to bottles where it's pretty clear what is being consumed.

 

Or even worse, someone really needing a drink finding everyone is still boring after a few.

 

[il Duce McTarkin]

2 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

I would feel much more comfortable sitting in a crowd of mates with a pint of non alcoholic lager than those bottles of 00 stuff. Strange as it is but you still get that mate who will make a snide comment or try to peer pressure you into getting a “proper” drink.
 

Least they wouldn’t know I was drinking non alcoholic lager if it was on draught. 

 

I regularly drink non alcoholic lager/beer when out with mates and nobody GAF anymore. Times have changed, man.

[GlasgoJambo]

31 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Or even worse, someone really needing a drink finding everyone is still boring after a few.

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

The night does drag if your no smoking and my tolerance level for the piss heids is sorely tested ..😂

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Taffin said:

Gas central heating.

 

Looking at new build houses for sale here, I don't know if any of them come with gas central heating.  Heat pumps are a lot easier to work into a new build than to retrofit them.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

5 hours ago, milky_26 said:

it is strange, i remember a couple of years after that when scotland brought it in (18 years ago today). i doubted if it would work and all the opposition. it made a massive change the day after being in the pub/nightclub not having your clothes smelling of cigarette smoke.

 

This. I thought it would ruin the atmosphere of pubs until I spent and evening in a smoke free one, before they were widespread. Not waking up smelling like an ashtray the next day was amazing.

[Ulysses]

3 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

The difference was it made complete sense and people were already aware of the dangers second hand smoke posed. There was a total common sense plus scientific consensus for it and over time despite initial opposition people realised it really wasn’t that big a deal going outside for a fag. There was this big theory that it would completely ruin pub culture was complete nonsense. 
 

 

That's what the article is saying.

 

Beforehand, people thought it would never work.  Almost as soon as it was done, it was obvious that it would work.  That was because people were so used to the way things were that they couldn't imagine the change happening without it causing problems that couldn't be solved - so the only way to beat that was to make the change and let people see for themselves.

 

That's why I'm asking if there are other things we take for granted that maybe we wouldn't actually mind if they were changed.

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, Ulysses said:

 

Looking at new build houses for sale here, I don't know if any of them come with gas central heating.  Heat pumps are a lot easier to work into a new build than to retrofit them.

 

Yeh, I sense there will be a generation who wrongly view heat pumps as new fangled contraptions and would favour a gas boiler. In 25 years folk will look at a gas boiler as archaic imo.

[Morgan]

Arseholes shouting and fighting in the street should be shot.

 

Leith Street is a prime, and very recent, example of that sort and of what that sort do.

 

Disgraceful behaviour from ‘people’ that are meant to be of an intellect and age that should be aware of what is right, and what is clearly wrong. 

 

 

 

[Ray Gin]

8 hours ago, milky_26 said:

it is strange, i remember a couple of years after that when scotland brought it in (18 years ago today). i doubted if it would work and all the opposition. it made a massive change the day after being in the pub/nightclub not having your clothes smelling of cigarette smoke.

 

It was a truly glorious day when Scotland adopted this rule.

[Jim_Duncan]

3 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

I regularly drink non alcoholic lager/beer when out with mates and nobody GAF anymore. Times have changed, man.

****ing loser. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

5 minutes ago, Jim_Duncan said:

****ing loser. 

 

I turn up pre-hammered, Jim.

[Jim_Duncan]

3 minutes ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

I turn up pre-hammered, Jim.

Cheap ****ing loser. 

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 minute ago, Jim_Duncan said:

Cheap ****ing loser. 

 

The very traits that your wife finds most attractive in you.

[Jim_Duncan]

Just now, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

The very traits that your wife finds most attractive in you.

I’ll have you know my wife doesn’t find anything remotely attractive about me.  So there. 

[Hansel]

6 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

I would feel much more comfortable sitting in a crowd of mates with a pint of non alcoholic lager than those bottles of 00 stuff. Strange as it is but you still get that mate who will make a snide comment or try to peer pressure you into getting a “proper” drink.
 

Least they wouldn’t know I was drinking non alcoholic lager if it was on draught. 

My 2 best mates would always tease me for not keeping up with them in the pub as I'd always be lagging behind them. This back in our late teens/early twenties, and I would always feel a bit bad about myself for not being able to drink as much.

 

Fast forward 20 years or so, and sadly they're both raging alcoholics and they were also alcoholics back them too, but when you're young no-one notices it. 1 of them really bad with it and it's brutal to see how much he's damaged himself in every way.

 

Funny when I look back at me beating myself up for not being able to drink as much as actual alcoholics though. If only I knew then what I know now.

 

Alcohol has a lot to answer for.

[ArcticJambo]

5 hours ago, GlasgoJambo said:

Aye, it’s quite overwhelming, especially in some of those wee boozers - novelty factor almost worth it to see the bar man with his ashtray on the bar, puffing between serving!!

 

very alien behaviour to us now. 

 

Beer was guid though, 6 pints of top notch Bavarian beer for 23 euros.

[Japan Jambo]

19 hours ago, FWJ said:

I visited France about a week after their ban and just assumed the French would give it a big deux fingers.  I was amazed to see it was completely followed.

 

As for things that were once unthinkable and now unremarkable - gay marriage.

 

aye no reason they shouldn't suffer like the rest of us 😞 

[Dia Liom]

Cars seem the obvious one. People like having their own vehicle, for some it is a necessity, for most it is convenient, or a luxury. But the pollution, accidents and fatalities, cost, even the space they take up. I can imagine people in the not too distant future looking back on the way we use cars as being a bit mad, a sign of the times.

[kila]

3 minutes ago, Dia Liom said:

Cars seem the obvious one. People like having their own vehicle, for some it is a necessity, for most it is convenient, or a luxury. But the pollution, accidents and fatalities, cost, even the space they take up. I can imagine people in the not too distant future looking back on the way we use cars as being a bit mad, a sign of the times.

 

Size of cars too.

 

No problem with folk driving, but they do not need a massive car when they are the sole occupant with no luggage. Just a status thing, like when smoking was cool.

 

[Taffin]

21 minutes ago, Dia Liom said:

Cars seem the obvious one. People like having their own vehicle, for some it is a necessity, for most it is convenient, or a luxury. But the pollution, accidents and fatalities, cost, even the space they take up. I can imagine people in the not too distant future looking back on the way we use cars as being a bit mad, a sign of the times.

 

I thought the insanity of commuting would end post-covid but it's back. 

 

Hopefully one day people work where they live and walk, cycle or use public transport to get there.

[Bindy Badgy]

21 hours ago, milky_26 said:

a junk food tax is something that i think would have significant opposition but after a period of time it would be accepted and would be a good thing.

 

you could also add when it happens a move away from ICE/diesel engined vehicles

 

The sugar tax made a difference to my shopping habits. I'm grateful for it as I did and still do drink too much of that shite.

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, Dia Liom said:

Cars seem the obvious one. People like having their own vehicle, for some it is a necessity, for most it is convenient, or a luxury. But the pollution, accidents and fatalities, cost, even the space they take up. I can imagine people in the not too distant future looking back on the way we use cars as being a bit mad, a sign of the times.

 

The idea of your own transport has become ingrained, that's for sure. 

 

I can just about imagine a future world where people think it was remarkable that we all owned and drove cars.  On the other hand, it's easier to imagine a world where we drive around as much, but we don't own cars.  Instead, we use our app to call a self-driving car for short trips, and rent cars for longer trips.

 

And I can definitely see people in a couple of hundred years looking back at us, reading about the internal combustion engine, and saying "they used to do ****ing WHAT?!?"

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, kila said:

 

Size of cars too.

 

No problem with folk driving, but they do not need a massive car when they are the sole occupant with no luggage. Just a status thing, like when smoking was cool.

 

 

I'll put my hand up to that particular failing.  

 

 

 

[Ribble]

If the smoking ban had come to fruition a good few years earlier then doubt i'd have ever been a smoker, used to go out at the weekend and only once wasted would the offer of a cigarette from across the table be accepted, if I'd had to go outside then it's been a firm no. That offer of a cigarette when wasted soon became me knowing I'd smoke when I was wasted so would buy a 10 pack that would last me 2-3 weekends, then it was a 10 pack every week, then every night out and before long I was a sober, 20 a day smoker. 

 

All that said, had I not been a smoker I may never have met Mrs Ribble as we first met outside the Jekyll and Hyde whilst having a smoke.

[martoon]

Watched the episode of Yes, Prime Minister (1986) recently which is centred around the banning of smoking.

 

Everything that was proposed by the health minister was scoffed at but is now, in real life, law.

 

Funny how quickly attitudes have changed.

 

 

Edited March 27 by martoon