Baltimore Key Bridge Collapse

[Sooperstar]

20 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

 

Weird. Lights going on and off but it appears to turn towards the pillar.

[Mikey1874]

23 minutes ago, Daktari said:

A Singapore-based shipping expert who has sailed cargo ships through Baltimore’s port many times has been speaking with the BBC.

“The vessel had just departed from berth and made a turn before hitting the bridge”.

Having seen the footage, he has said there were a few possible causes:

Main engine failure

Steering failure

Generator blackout

Possibility of pilot/human error

 

BBC quoted more of what he said 

 

"It’s an unusual turn. Before a ship departs, we are supposed to carry out all the checks on all elements of the vessel before it departs. It’s part of the departure checklist. So, if everything was done, something was obviously overlooked,” he says, speaking on the basis of anonymity.

“These ships are so huge that even if the speed is slow, the momentum would be huge,” he adds.

He questions when the last structural check of the bridge was carried out. “Having a port right next to the bridge with ships going underneath it all the time – it should have been checked often,” he says.

[Mikey1874]

2 people rescued so far

[Daktari]

24 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Weird. Lights going on and off but it appears to turn towards the pillar.

A few things to note there. Total power failure is a 'reasonable worst case scenario' for large ships like that one.  IF that footage is genuine, it could be an explanation. The footage has also been sped up, so it makes the turn look faster and more intentional. Total blackout and loss of propulsion would mean that it would continue in whatever direction it was last heading. So, if it was making a slight course correction at that point, it would continue in that direction to a place it wasn't intended to go.  I've not seen that footage anywhere else though, which is odd if it's real. 

 

EDIT - BBC now quoting that the lights were seen to go off and on.

Edited March 26 by Daktari

[Hansel]

1 hour ago, hughesie27 said:

Smart move.

 

 

Thinking outside the box! I like it.

 

[Ray Gin]

48 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Knee-jerk reaction. Surely better to wait and assess the extent of the damage. 

 

 

 

 

Seems unfair to call him petty, maybe he just didn't know?

 

(I'm being facetious)

[trotter]

52 minutes ago, Daktari said:

A few things to note there. Total power failure is a 'reasonable worst case scenario' for large ships like that one.  IF that footage is genuine, it could be an explanation. The footage has also been sped up, so it makes the turn look faster and more intentional. Total blackout and loss of propulsion would mean that it would continue in whatever direction it was last heading. So, if it was making a slight course correction at that point, it would continue in that direction to a place it wasn't intended to go.  I've not seen that footage anywhere else though, which is odd if it's real. 

 

EDIT - BBC now quoting that the lights were seen to go off and on.

Main power failure would be an obvious initial cause. Lights going off and then back on would be a result of the emergency generator/UPS kicking in. Doesn't produce anywhere near enough power for propulsion, only for essential systems (controls, fire and gas, radar, communications, etc). 

[OBE]

The diesel reek spewing from the stacks, (16 sec's in) just prior to impact may suggests the engines were on full astern...or full ahead...🤷‍♂️ 

Edited March 26 by OBE

[I P Knightley]

1 hour ago, Sooperstar said:

Weird. Lights going on and off but it appears to turn towards the pillar.

The enormous amount of filthy smoke coming out the funnels seems abnormal.

[OBE]

Putin, blames Ukraine...😜

[Jim_Duncan]

5 minutes ago, OBE said:

Putin, blames Ukraine...😜

@Diadora Van Basten blames Israelis. 
 

@Roxy Hearts blames Unionists. 
 

 

Edited March 26 by Jim_Duncan

[RustyRightPeg]

20 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

The enormous amount of filthy smoke coming out the funnels seems abnormal.

 

It's a mechanical failure of some sort, 100%. 

[Mysterion]

34 minutes ago, trotter said:

Main power failure would be an obvious initial cause. Lights going off and then back on would be a result of the emergency generator/UPS kicking in. Doesn't produce anywhere near enough power for propulsion, only for essential systems (controls, fire and gas, radar, communications, etc). 

^^This.

Looks like the whole ship power/control cut out/resumed a few times.

[Japan Jambo]

3 hours ago, Homme said:

800k vessels went through the bridge last year. There was no chance those relatively flimsy bridge supports were standing up to a container ship of that size. 

 

I think the captain of the ship has been lining himself up between the two red flashing lights thinking the lights are on the piers.

 

Incidentally there are no white or green lights present indicating safe route through the bridge although concede there may be different pracricies in different parts of the world. Such a busy watercourse and the fact there is no significant pier protection seems incredible also.

 

(I'm partly responsible for vessel navigation lights on Forth and Tay bridges)

 

👍 It's amazing the breadth of knowledge and experience we have on this board. I know given the numbers we should have most things covered but still....

[il Duce McTarkin]

51 minutes ago, trotter said:

Main power failure would be an obvious initial cause. Lights going off and then back on would be a result of the emergency generator/UPS kicking in. Doesn't produce anywhere near enough power for propulsion, only for essential systems (controls, fire and gas, radar, communications, etc). 

 

This would be my guess also.

 

Have you any idea what sort of redundancy to these bad boys have? Probably not enough time once the backup generators kicked in to fire up the bow thruster or drop the azimuth thruster if they have one. 

[Victorian]

Same ship had a similar incident in Antwerp apparently.  

[Mikey1874]

The 6 missing are workers who were repairing potholes. 1 person in hospital.

 

No one from a vehicle affected they just said. We saw in the videos several vehicles just getting over in time. Ðistess call allowed them to stop vehicles.

Edited March 26 by Mikey1874

[been here before]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

👍 It's amazing the breadth of knowledge and experience we have on this board. I know given the numbers we should have most things covered but still....

 

He just changes the lightbulbs 😀

[Sooperstar]

43 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Same ship had a similar incident in Antwerp apparently.  

2016, crashed into the dock. 

[Thunder and Lightning]

2 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

This would be my guess also.

 

Have you any idea what sort of redundancy to these bad boys have? Probably not enough time once the backup generators kicked in to fire up the bow thruster or drop the azimuth thruster if they have one. 

I doubt this vessel has Azi thrusters, certainly not retractable ones. Kongsbergs are beasts but mainly used for positioning. This vessel likely has standard propulsion with a rudder hence the lack of response. Azi thrusters would have allowed far more movement (directional change) at slow speed. If as has been mentioned above the propulsion was getting any power. 

[trotter]

2 hours ago, il Duce McTarkin said:

 

This would be my guess also.

 

Have you any idea what sort of redundancy to these bad boys have? Probably not enough time once the backup generators kicked in to fire up the bow thruster or drop the azimuth thruster if they have one. 

You'll likely have either two very large, or four smaller engines for main propulsion, plus a small back up emergency generator and a UPS.

Won't be azi-pods, but possibly a bow and/or stern thruster (which is only really good for fine adjustments when mooring to a jetty). 

[il Duce McTarkin]

1 hour ago, trotter said:

You'll likely have either two very large, or four smaller engines for main propulsion, plus a small back up emergency generator and a UPS.

Won't be azi-pods, but possibly a bow and/or stern thruster (which is only really good for fine adjustments when mooring to a jetty). 

 

I thought that a bow thruster might've been just enough to alter the heading slightly. I've had call to use one when trying to swing a seismic boat around into heavy seas. Just enough to nudge the bow out of the trough. Same with a forward mounted retractable azi. I appreciate the two types of vessel are not really comparable, though. I've worked on high capacity seismic vessels with 100% redundancy, but the absolute minimum is enough to keep the boat moving forward at around 3.5 knots and stop the 8 km of towed equipment from sinking or wrapping itself around a platform or FPSO. Beyond that we're firing rockets attached to tow lines at chase boats from the helideck. 

 

Those container ships are beasts, and the bridge didn't stand a chance.

[Dean Winchester]

Very surreal reading about this this morning.

 

I was in bed last night and was watching a video about the Tamp Bay Skyway Bridge disaster... Something I hadn't heard of but a ship hit it in fog in 1980 and it partially collapsed and then due to the low visibility quite a few cars drove right into the collapsed section. I went to sleep thinking that was crazy and there can't be too many instances of a large ship like that hitting a bridge throughout history... Only to wake up to Sky News reporting another one.

[JFK-1]

They're saying the ship lost power and was drifting with the current. That would indeed explain it.

[Hansel]

3 hours ago, Dean Winchester said:

Very surreal reading about this this morning.

 

I was in bed last night and was watching a video about the Tamp Bay Skyway Bridge disaster... Something I hadn't heard of but a ship hit it in fog in 1980 and it partially collapsed and then due to the low visibility quite a few cars drove right into the collapsed section. I went to sleep thinking that was crazy and there can't be too many instances of a large ship like that hitting a bridge throughout history... Only to wake up to Sky News reporting another one.

Spooky when that sort of thing happens. Almost supernatural 

Edited March 26 by Hansel

[Life Aquatic]

14 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

They're saying the ship lost power and was drifting with the current. That would indeed explain it.

 

With the momentum ships of this size have at speed, once power was lost they are effectively watching themselves heading towards the bridge in slow motion. 

 

Anchors should have been made ready when approaching the harbour as part of pre arrival checks, depending on what speed they were doing when they lost power, they may not have been able to use them. 

 

Bridge folded like it was made of matchsticks though... 

[hughesie27]

23 minutes ago, Life Aquatic said:

 

With the momentum ships of this size have at speed, once power was lost they are effectively watching themselves heading towards the bridge in slow motion. 

 

Anchors should have been made ready when approaching the harbour as part of pre arrival checks, depending on what speed they were doing when they lost power, they may not have been able to use them. 

 

Bridge folded like it was made of matchsticks though... 

I think it was leaving rather than arriving. If that makes a difference to anchor protocol. 

[CavySlaveJambo]

NTSB aerial footage 

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

6 road construction workers now presumed dead. 😞

[JFK-1]

On top of the tragedy this is going to have a significant and lasting economic impact. Biden says he is going to visit as soon as possible to discuss with officials how to fix this mess. He said the federal government will foot the entire bill to repair the bridge and wants it started as soon as possible.

 

With the proviso that the funds are dependent on being passed by congress, and he doesn't control congress. MJT does. Speaking of whom, she's already on the bridge problem.

 

 

[I P Knightley]

27 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

On top of the tragedy this is going to have a significant and lasting economic impact. Biden says he is going to visit as soon as possible to discuss with officials how to fix this mess. He said the federal government will foot the entire bill to repair the bridge and wants it started as soon as possible.

 

With the proviso that the funds are dependent on being passed by congress, and he doesn't control congress. MJT does. Speaking of whom, she's already on the bridge problem.

 

 

She's just mental. Some of these goons put it on and get their cheapies out of trolling folk with their far-right arguments. MTG is one of the ones who truly believes it. Nothing between her ears at all. But she'll pray for them. 

[Ron Burgundy]

The time of the accident undoubtably saved many lives. Imagine that happened during rush hour with the school run or something similar.

Horrific.

[Ulysses]

10 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

6 road construction workers now presumed dead. 😞

 

They got enough warning to stop traffic entering the bridge, but I'm guessing not enough time to get the workers clear.

 

Unfortunately, if you fall into water from that height you've really got no chance.  You'd be killed on impact, and if not you'd be badly injured and unconscious.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

The time of the accident undoubtably saved many lives. Imagine that happened during rush hour with the school run or something similar.

Horrific.

 

It doesn't bear thinking about.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

3 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

On top of the tragedy this is going to have a significant and lasting economic impact. Biden says he is going to visit as soon as possible to discuss with officials how to fix this mess. He said the federal government will foot the entire bill to repair the bridge and wants it started as soon as possible.

 

With the proviso that the funds are dependent on being passed by congress, and he doesn't control congress. MJT does. Speaking of whom, she's already on the bridge problem.

 

 

 

The bridge is a loss for sure, but the river there has a number of crossings, including a bridge closer in as well as the Baltimore tunnel. Also it's not all that long to just go around the north of the city where it's not part of the bay.

 

The bigger loss is that it's closed the port of Baltimore. The port was far and away the biggest in the US for importing and exporting cars and trucks, among other things. Some of that will be redirected but it's yet another supply chain headache.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

On the subject of reactionary dipshits making this political, there's getting burned, and then there's getting David Simon burned.

 

[CavySlaveJambo]

All 6 presumed Dead are from Central America.  

One of the survivors is from Mexico, 

[JFK-1]

16 hours ago, Watt-Zeefuik said:

 

The bridge is a loss for sure, but the river there has a number of crossings, including a bridge closer in as well as the Baltimore tunnel. Also it's not all that long to just go around the north of the city where it's not part of the bay.

 

The bigger loss is that it's closed the port of Baltimore. The port was far and away the biggest in the US for importing and exporting cars and trucks, among other things. Some of that will be redirected but it's yet another supply chain headache.

 

I was wondering if MTG and the maga crew might try to nix providing the funds. Which would be pretty dumb in the circumstances, but they are dumb.

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I was wondering if MTG and the maga crew might try to nix providing the funds. Which would be pretty dumb in the circumstances, but they are dumb.

 

It appears Janet Yellen is already walking back Biden's tax payer promises.

[Bindy Badgy]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I was wondering if MTG and the maga crew might try to nix providing the funds. Which would be pretty dumb in the circumstances, but they are dumb.

 

Their standard operating procedure seems to be to try to block the funds then claim credit when the money is allocated.

[CavySlaveJambo]

Has any one seen the damage on the MV Dali?  

It’s bow is a ground but the damage. 

 

 

 

As for who will pay.  Insurance.  The US Govt might pay the money upfront and do the work, but Insurance will pay for a lot. 

 

[trotter]

13 hours ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

Has any one seen the damage on the MV Dali?  

It’s bow is a ground but the damage. 

 

 

 

As for who will pay.  Insurance.  The US Govt might pay the money upfront and do the work, but Insurance will pay for a lot. 

 

Shipowners carry what's called P&I insurance which will pay out in cases like this, however very often there is a cap to prevent one major incident (like the Evergiven blocking the Suez) from bankruptcy the insurance company. 

 

Make no mistake, a decent chunk of this will ultimately end up being paid for by the US taxpayer.