Multi club model

[kingantti1874]

With Bournemouth D over the road,  Burnley sniffing around Dundee and now reportedly Brighton or Brentford looking to potentially take a stake in Dundee United is Scottish football on a dark path.

 

for less than the price of a below avwrage EPL player and a couple of loans, English clubs can now buy access to the best Scottish academy talent, have an easy route in for foreign players with work permit challenges. 
 

is Scottish football about to be consumed entirely by the EPL as a feeder league? 
 

I think this is a dark path. 
 

 

[OTT]

Its not good is it? I'd have preferred that it was outright rejected. 

[kingantti1874]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

Its not good is it? I'd have preferred that it was outright rejected. 

no it’s not good at all

 

Genuinely think within a couple of  years we could be facing a situation where most of the clubs in the top flight  are feeder clubs.  
 

There is a talent pool up here where spend can be avoided, there is an avenue to cheat their FFP rules a little bit and a back door for players who’d struggle to get a permit. 
 

When you have teams who are desperate for funding like hibs and the Dundee clubs it’s a dangerous path for the game . 

[Bull's-eye]

Still not seeing any plus points for anybody.

 

 

[Gorgiewave]

Football clubs should be 100% independent. No feeder clubs, no City Football Group. Girona are third in La Liga and Manchester City are third in the EPL. There's every chance they could be playing one another in the Champions' League next season. City Football Group has a 100% stake in Manchester City and a 47% stake in Girona. This is a blatant conflict of interest.

[RS86]

The big clubs will be safe. If it makes the crap clubs better and improves the overall standard of the game up here it might not be awful.

[Armageddon]

The fact none of these ‘big guns’ are touching the big 3 clubs in Scotland tells you all you need to know about their motives.

 

Use the clubs as a training facility and to shift the shite off their books to free up wages under the FFP.

 

Guaranteed if Saudi money came in for Hearts it would be stopped as the Old Firm free run would be dismantled.

[johnking123]

Scottish football is screwed 

[SectionDJambo]

It's been a pot hole filled road to start going down. Ultimately, if a Scottish club started threatening the duopoly by it's partnership with an EPL club, unlikely though that is, the SFA would almost certainly pull up the drawbridge and put a stop to it. What happens to any existing arrangements, if that happens, could be entertaining.

It's not that long ago that there was much grinding of teeth and horror when Hearts had a weaker arrangement with Kaunas. Yes, Kaunas, that world beating football powerhouse.

[davemclaren]

Scottish Football, and the clubs in it, need money. We have been lucky since administration to have FoH and benefactors.  Long May it continue...hopefully. 

[McNelly15]

19 minutes ago, Gorgiewave said:

Football clubs should be 100% independent. No feeder clubs, no City Football Group. Girona are third in La Liga and Manchester City are third in the EPL. There's every chance they could be playing one another in the Champions' League next season. City Football Group has a 100% stake in Manchester City and a 47% stake in Girona. This is a blatant conflict of interest.

I'm pretty sure they can't play in the same competition. Read it not that long ago. 

Edited March 19 by McNelly15
.

[jamboozy]

As it is We get laughed at and treated with condescension by our neighbours down south , this route some Scottish clubs are taking will further undermine Scottish football in the eyes of the footballing world.

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, McNelly15 said:

I'm pretty sure they can't play in the same competition. Read it not that long ago. 

Bournemouth are unlikely to get in Europe...and then there's Hibs. 😍

[Jamboross]

4 minutes ago, McNelly15 said:

I'm pretty sure they can't play in the same competition. Read it that long ago. 

 

They can not only play in the same competition they can potentially play each other. Red Bull Leipzig and Salzburg were in the same Europa League group a few years ago. They just need to prove to UEFA that they are sufficiently distinct entities. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Be beneficial if we got a tie in with a big club and we got the players on loan that normally go abroad or tothe championship. 

 

Think Arsenal and thier young playes that went ti the championship,  ligue 1 etc on loan.

Would need to be that quality to benefit.

 

Then it would elevate a club like ours while keeping a young group of players together while they develop. 

Think Smith Rowe, Nkiteah, Nelson type quality at 19/20 when on loan at the championship.

 

 

[RustyRightPeg]

It isn’t a bad thing if done correctly and not abused. 

[Craig_]

55 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

Still not seeing any plus points for anybody.

 

 

 

We could have access to all of the best young Scottish talent, as the other clubs will be chock full of second-rate English players? 

[queensferryjambo]

On paper a multi club model should have some benefits for each of the clubs involved.

 

I haven't seen it anywhere where it has yet to pay dividends for all the clubs though.

 

Man City owners own 13 clubs. Man City and Girona are doing great and the rest I am not so sure they are benefiting that much. 

 

At some point it has to work for someone right? 

[Des Lynam]

55 minutes ago, Armageddon said:

The fact none of these ‘big guns’ are touching the big 3 clubs in Scotland tells you all you need to know about their motives.

 

Use the clubs as a training facility and to shift the shite off their books to free up wages under the FFP.

 

Guaranteed if Saudi money came in for Hearts it would be stopped as the Old Firm free run would be dismantled.

We’ll find out soon enough. 

[Australis]

Through time with the lack of TV money and big sponsorships we might end up the same level as the Irish and Welsh leagues.

 

Especially if the Glasgow cheeks were to move to England or a Euro league set up.

 

Not looking good just now.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

As a lot of people said on the Foley thread, getting good loans doesn't depend on formal links. James Maddison to Aberdeen from Norwich for example which was brilliant for everyone. Brighton getting a decent fee for Cochrane due to a good loan. 

 

Not sure what else this could help with. 

[McNelly15]

1 hour ago, Jamboross said:

 

They can not only play in the same competition they can potentially play each other. Red Bull Leipzig and Salzburg were in the same Europa League group a few years ago. They just need to prove to UEFA that they are sufficiently distinct entities. 

They're not the same though. Two different companies is the Red bull teams. 

[D4nny_]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Scottish Football, and the clubs in it, need money. We have been lucky since administration to have FoH and benefactors.  Long May it continue...hopefully. 

This.

Leave the rest of them to it! Much prefer our model than the HiBourniLoan Attendance FC any day of the week.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 hours ago, Australis said:

Through time with the lack of TV money and big sponsorships we might end up the same level as the Irish and Welsh leagues.

 

Especially if the Glasgow cheeks were to move to England or a Euro league set up.

 

Not looking good just now.

 

 

You’re surely not being serious?!  Have you any idea how tin pot the Welsh League in particular is?  TNS win the league every year and get average crowds of 300.  Every team in that league averages less than 500, they’re basically on a par with League 2 in Scotland.  
 

Pretty sure TNS haven’t even managed to win the Challenge Cup in Scotland yet.  It’s an absolutely shite league and nowhere near the standard of our Premiership even without the uglies. 

[jambo19]

Are these clubs exploiting a potential loop hole to get round financial fair play?

Charges brought against Everton and Forrest but do City get around this by having players under a different club, ie Girona, Melbourne, New York? 

These clubs carry massive squads, loan guys out and never play them only to sell them on at a profit to create revenue.

Reeks a bit to me and not a way scottish clubs should go with how our clubs have good roots in their local communities

[WDJ87]

It's not a good path but what do people expect? We have a governing body that does absolutely nothing to promote our game, pat themselves on the back for securing a measley TV package and think the job is done until the deal needs renewed.

 

Clubs are going to look for outside investment and they're getting desperate imo.

Edited March 19 by WDJ87

[Watt-Zeefuik]

The thing is when you're in a development model, it's great for you financially and to a degree for the fans on the terraces, but from a competitive standpoint it's a serious disadvantage. With the exception of a few independent minor leagues, all of baseball below the major leagues in the US are officially feeder teams (or "farm teams" as they're called here). And the feeder teams have explicit and very strict orders to place the development of the players over any competitive achievement or the benefit of the fans.

 

A few years ago there was a young pitching prospect playing for the Durham Bulls on his way up to the Tampa Bay Rays. He had a no-hitter going into the 8th inning, a rare and exciting occurrence, but then he hit his maximum pitch count and got pulled. Hard to describe the equivalent in football but imagine a striker had two goals already, one with his head and another with his off foot, and had just earned a penalty and was ready to complete a perfect hat trick. But then the clock hit 60' and the manager subbed him off because the parent club said he had to come off after an hour.

 

Players aren't going to be sent to Scotland to win championships or cups. They're going to come to get game time on the pitch and work on their techniques or fitness. If any of them have a knock, they'll be kept out of playing in a cup final for the good of the parent club.

 

With England passing formal football regulation legislation this week, Scotland should do the same but should put some severe limiters on these arrangements.

Edited March 19 by Watt-Zeefuik

[Ked]

Hibs have opened the gate to establishing Scottish football officially to feeder club status.

For them it's progression from feeding Celtic.

 

We are a club from the capital of Scotland and remain entirely so.

The irony from 10 years ago is astounding.

Hands across the ocean the 8,000.

[DS98]

4 hours ago, Bull's-eye said:

Still not seeing any plus points for anybody.

 

 

The big club gets to punt their unwanted players somewhere when they’ve aged out of the youth team but still have a contract. Whilst holding out hope that the wee diddy team they now part-own unearths the next Andy Roberston. 

[gregzy2k7]

At least when we had the multi club ownership model under Vlad,

 

We were the top dogs and were getting all the benefits,

 

Unlike hibs or any other club in Scotland that is doing it now,

 

I personally think it's an OK model, but you have to be at the top of the chain, if you're not, then you are nothing more than a feeder club for a bigger team imo 

[hughesie27]

3 hours ago, queensferryjambo said:

On paper a multi club model should have some benefits for each of the clubs involved.

 

I haven't seen it anywhere where it has yet to pay dividends for all the clubs though.

 

Man City owners own 13 clubs. Man City and Girona are doing great and the rest I am not so sure they are benefiting that much. 

 

At some point it has to work for someone right? 

Melbourne City have came good for a couple of seasons however are now lacking again this year.

[Ked]

If the black knights and the Gordon's were doing business in any other field would I be right in saying.,that  turnover was the goal not long term gain.

Or is that too simplistic?

[gregzy2k7]

4 hours ago, Gorgiewave said:

Football clubs should be 100% independent. No feeder clubs, no City Football Group. Girona are third in La Liga and Manchester City are third in the EPL. There's every chance they could be playing one another in the Champions' League next season. City Football Group has a 100% stake in Manchester City and a 47% stake in Girona. This is a blatant conflict of interest.

This is the even bigger issue on a larger scale, it could lead to all sorts of problems, like monopolizing football clubs and potentially the people who are monopolizing those teams to match fix certain teams to win the Champions league etc etc

[Cameronstheman]

'' We  just told you wait and see''  SLF

 

I think this works or can with big clubs, in big league's , but not with  diddy ones  and the SPL is just that

 

Hibs have nothing left to but go with it. They are pot less and gave all they did have over for he haw

 

The owners of the training ground and what ever else the got for buttons must be laughing like **** at the mugs

 

£6 million debt  where  they were debt free,£6 million on infrastructure,, good one

 

You reap what you sow 

[Taffin]

If it raises the quality of player in the league I can only see it as a good thing if I'm honest.

[Ked]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

If it raises the quality of player in the league I can only see it as a good thing if I'm honest.

Missing the point of the invention of the inyernet to be negative about hibs type post.

 

 

 

 

Taffin ffs man

😀

[Cameronstheman]

7 minutes ago, Taffin said:

If it raises the quality of player in the league I can only see it as a good thing if I'm honest.

Who for ?? unlikely we will benefit 

[Taffin]

Just now, Ked said:

Missing the point of the invention of the inyernet to be negative about hibs type post.

 

 

 

 

Taffin ffs man

😀

 

I know, I know. Honestly, I'm just sick of the gulf between the OF and the rest and then the general dismal quality on show in our league.

 

Whisper it, but I'd even take Hibs getting top six regularly if it meant the whole league was a bit more competitive and attractive to watch. We'd of course still be above them comfortably.

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Cameronstheman said:

Who for ?? unlikely we will benefit 

 

Anyone in the league. Wanting the rest of the league to remain amateur hour for our benefit is OF thinking imo. There's no real satisfaction scudding some of these clubs with hammer thrower journeymen on £500 a week.

 

I want us to be better than an otherwise decent field of teams. Right now third is just being the shiniest turd so to speak. We're better than that.

[Jodami]

Our identity as a club now would make it difficult to see us a feeder to anyone which is a really good thing. 

Lots of interesting scenarios will crop up in this model. What happens when really promising youngsters head to the most prominent club in the pyramid for a fraction of their worth? Fans quickly forget about decent players that have been loaned when this arises. Also, if you are a talented teenager do you want to be funnelled to a Bournemouth, Burnley or Brighton if you are really promising? Recent evidence would suggest going abroad would improve you much more as a player and set you up for a big pay day down the line. 

Ultimately though I want to see Hearts do well for a sustained period of time and there seems more chance of that happening if we keep a core of players together, bring in the odd loan and give young players opportunities. That is not the multi club model way if you are a feeder team, you need keep turning players over to create space for loanees and it's hard to see where older, senior professionals fit in.

Edited March 19 by Jodami

[Sooks]

5 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

With Bournemouth D over the road,  Burnley sniffing around Dundee and now reportedly Brighton or Brentford looking to potentially take a stake in Dundee United is Scottish football on a dark path.

 

for less than the price of a below avwrage EPL player and a couple of loans, English clubs can now buy access to the best Scottish academy talent, have an easy route in for foreign players with work permit challenges. 
 

is Scottish football about to be consumed entirely by the EPL as a feeder league? 
 

I think this is a dark path. 
 

 

Almost unimaginable such one time grand clubs like Dundee United being swallowed up by absolute tinpot shite like Brentford . Depressing really . I have no time for United or their fans and obviously Hibs neither , but this is tinpottery on an incredible scale . Blackpool or Luton going to make Aberdeen their bitches next ? **** modern football 

[May98]

52 minutes ago, Ked said:

Missing the point of the invention of the inyernet to be negative about hibs type post.

 

 

 

 

Taffin ffs man

😀

I think the main point of this thread is hoping to **** it’s a bad thing for every club  involved but nobody really has a scoob.   Because we are not involved we proclaim it’s doomsday and hope it to be justified. 

[Ked]

5 minutes ago, May98 said:

I think the main point of this thread is hoping to **** it’s a bad thing for every club  involved but nobody really has a scoob.   Because we are not involved we proclaim it’s doomsday and hope it to be justified. 

Well it's a Hearts forum so I hope too fek it is hoping that.

Taffin must've been puffin on mellow the night 

[Cameronstheman]

I hope with   hibs its a slow epic fail  FTH

[henrysmithsgloves]

5 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

no it’s not good at all

 

Genuinely think within a couple of  years we could be facing a situation where most of the clubs in the top flight  are feeder clubs.  
 

There is a talent pool up here where spend can be avoided, there is an avenue to cheat their FFP rules a little bit and a back door for players who’d struggle to get a permit. 
 

When you have teams who are desperate for funding like hibs and the Dundee clubs it’s a dangerous path for the game .