Libertarian Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 9 hours ago, JamboGraham said: I get the incentive of the European cash but goodness me it's heartbreaking that we are going down the route of prioritising that over actually winning silverware (although I do understand it). Aberdeen all the way against Celtic for me! I want the weakest team in the competition up against us in the final. Then if they beat us (or even Rangers) and actually win the Scottish Cup then grudgingly I would say fair play, they deserve their guaranteed group football. The spot actually belongs to the cup winners by design. Cash aside, I was actually pretty underwhelmed by our last experience of the conference league. It will never, ever come close to the experience of actually winning something. For me the ultimate prize is the Scottish Cup and any European benefits off the back of it simply a bonus. The money that Hearts will make by playing regular European football (i.e. group stage football) will allow the club to grow, sign and keep better players and thus win more trophies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFK-1 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 8 hours ago, JamboGraham said: Cash aside, I was actually pretty underwhelmed by our last experience of the conference league. It will never, ever come close to the experience of actually winning something. For me the ultimate prize is the Scottish Cup and any European benefits off the back of it simply a bonus. I get your feeling but in non OF Scottish terms this is serious cash, serious to the extent any team that could get it for say 3 consecutive seasons would have gained a significant advantage over all below the OF. It blows away any earnings a domestic cup win could bring. And is a buzz for the fans. Plus earning that money gives you a better chance of nicking a cup from the OF. For that reason the co-efficient is crucial and I see it as a classic example of biting off your own nose to spite your face when I see people hope Scottish sides lose. The reality is the OF don't need such a good co-efficient to make at least Europa league groups consistently, even with a poorer co-efficient they would still make groups playing qualifying rounds, while no one else would. Even if the OF didn't have this euro money they would still be dominant in Scotland, they always have even before euro money became such a big deal. And they're Scotland's most realistic chance of racking up points sufficient to at least say maintain roughly the current position, affording a path to an automatic group spot for 3rd place. It's the only avenue to finance that could help anybody else but the OF add much to the points haul. The OF will benefit from euro money regardless of a good co-efficient, no one else will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 9 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said: Well, you can count on it, unless you think I'm some sort of arse that makes things up Not at all! I mean, you're on jkb so you're obviously some sort of arse 😃 but I was really only commenting on my memory! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 32 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said: Not at all! I mean, you're on jkb so you're obviously some sort of arse 😃 but I was really only commenting on my memory! Well, I did abstain from here for 3 months, unnecessarily; that's got to count for something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tynecastle Valhalla Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 The excitement of the draw is unreal. Then planning away leg (actually I think it’s a larger league this time rather than play each team twice) trips. We can also attract better quality players in the summer for next season knowing we have group stage football. The cup winner should not get that slot though - 3rd in the league is more deserving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texaco Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 2 hours ago, JFK-1 said: I get your feeling but in non OF Scottish terms this is serious cash, serious to the extent any team that could get it for say 3 consecutive seasons would have gained a significant advantage over all below the OF. It blows away any earnings a domestic cup win could bring. And is a buzz for the fans. Plus earning that money gives you a better chance of nicking a cup from the OF. For that reason the co-efficient is crucial and I see it as a classic example of biting off your own nose to spite your face when I see people hope Scottish sides lose. The reality is the OF don't need such a good co-efficient to make at least Europa league groups consistently, even with a poorer co-efficient they would still make groups playing qualifying rounds, while no one else would. Even if the OF didn't have this euro money they would still be dominant in Scotland, they always have even before euro money became such a big deal. And they're Scotland's most realistic chance of racking up points sufficient to at least say maintain roughly the current position, affording a path to an automatic group spot for 3rd place. It's the only avenue to finance that could help anybody else but the OF add much to the points haul. The OF will benefit from euro money regardless of a good co-efficient, no one else will. I get your your point of view and in a way hope you're right. I've been waiting all my life to become the out and out 3rd force in Scotland but more than that seeing us win the league which is the ultimate goal and so far off in these times. The system is skewed against us. The 12 team league playing them four times a season, the ridiculous 11-1 voting system and of course the Euro 'for the rich' format which keep them lightyears ahead. The ideal that we want both the OF constantly to flourish in Europe does not sit well me. The most likely senerio is the 3rd group spot is shared by the rest as it is hard for any of us to maintain league form with the extra games. I personally want to see at least one of the OF in crisis. That means getting regularly humped by the other half and yes failing miserably in Europe. Only by them overspending and changing managers etc etc is our only chance of even splitting them for a season a nabbing thier euro spot. It just a different point of view as no one can predict the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 hour ago, Tynecastle Valhalla said: The excitement of the draw is unreal. Then planning away leg (actually I think it’s a larger league this time rather than play each team twice) trips. We can also attract better quality players in the summer for next season knowing we have group stage football. The cup winner should not get that slot though - 3rd in the league is more deserving. Totally agree…the cup winners should get a European place, but the bottom of the pile European place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 Just now, luckyBatistuta said: Totally agree…the cup winners should get a European place, but the bottom of the pile European place. I think it's a UEFA rule re the European allocations iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
132goals1958 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 hour ago, Tynecastle Valhalla said: The excitement of the draw is unreal. Then planning away leg (actually I think it’s a larger league this time rather than play each team twice) trips. We can also attract better quality players in the summer for next season knowing we have group stage football. The cup winner should not get that slot though - 3rd in the league is more deserving. I do think there should be some reward for winning the cup perhaps taking the 4th slot. Doesn't seem that long ago the cup runners up qualified for Europe. Thankfully they knocked that on the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armageddon Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 If we are to win this cup I want to do the Old Firm double 👌🏼 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 3 hours ago, JFK-1 said: I get your feeling but in non OF Scottish terms this is serious cash, serious to the extent any team that could get it for say 3 consecutive seasons would have gained a significant advantage over all below the OF. It blows away any earnings a domestic cup win could bring. And is a buzz for the fans. Plus earning that money gives you a better chance of nicking a cup from the OF. For that reason the co-efficient is crucial and I see it as a classic example of biting off your own nose to spite your face when I see people hope Scottish sides lose. The reality is the OF don't need such a good co-efficient to make at least Europa league groups consistently, even with a poorer co-efficient they would still make groups playing qualifying rounds, while no one else would. Even if the OF didn't have this euro money they would still be dominant in Scotland, they always have even before euro money became such a big deal. And they're Scotland's most realistic chance of racking up points sufficient to at least say maintain roughly the current position, affording a path to an automatic group spot for 3rd place. It's the only avenue to finance that could help anybody else but the OF add much to the points haul. The OF will benefit from euro money regardless of a good co-efficient, no one else will. Except it isn't the OF earning the points; it's rangers; celtic have been awful and would once again struggle in Europe, EVEN if they get 2nd and Scotland keep 10th place They'd likely end up in the Conference League by default if they start from CL Q3, gubbed out of the top 2 tournaments They've been cynically scoring such low points it's hard to believe they're not deliberately keeping the coefficient low Bottom line is both OF teams would score better and improve more in the lower 2 tournaments next Season If we don't get pipped for 10th in the next months, we're going to sink pretty far down; there's no drop-down from top 2 tournaments next Season either, so, doubtful that this Season's numbers are matched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 9 minutes ago, davemclaren said: I think it's a UEFA rule re the European allocations iirc. Aah, didn’t realise that Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the posh bit Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 On 12/03/2024 at 00:40, Doc Rob said: It would be bloody typical if Aberdeen, having been utterly honking all season, somehow won the cup. It wouldn't be typical of anything, it would be extraordinary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Panzee Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 12 hours ago, JamboGraham said: I get the incentive of the European cash but goodness me it's heartbreaking that we are going down the route of prioritising that over actually winning silverware (although I do understand it). Aberdeen all the way against Celtic for me! I want the weakest team in the competition up against us in the final. Then if they beat us (or even Rangers) and actually win the Scottish Cup then grudgingly I would say fair play, they deserve their guaranteed group football. The spot actually belongs to the cup winners by design. Cash aside, I was actually pretty underwhelmed by our last experience of the conference league. It will never, ever come close to the experience of actually winning something. For me the ultimate prize is the Scottish Cup and any European benefits off the back of it simply a bonus. get your point - but it's a romantic view. We now have serious business people running the club. The aim is to greatly increase income - solidify 3rd, potential cup finals and European money - the trick then is to have people in place who can a. spend the increased funds on better calibre players who are more likely to be successful with us b. manage said players to maintain on the pitch success to keep bringing on the field money coming in (as well as off the field) If that happens, after a shortish wait, your desire for silverware should naturally follow.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 (edited) It would be dumbfoundingly horrific if the sheep were to win the cup Thankfully they have both butt cheeks and ourselves in the way - Edited March 13 by Ricardo Quaresma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 minute ago, Ricardo Quaresma said: It would be dumbfoundingly horrific if the sheep were to win the cup - It's unlikely, given their form, but not impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 hour ago, Armageddon said: If we are to win this cup I want to do the Old Firm double 👌🏼 As do I 🤌 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomaso Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 On 12/03/2024 at 08:41, BigAlim said: Trying to hold off on being brazen, as hard as that is given we are 13 clear of St Midden. I reckon two more wins will do it The 3 points against Celtic was massive but after 55 years following Hearts it ain’t done till it’s done! 🫣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozyuzi Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Pretty sure that's Scotlands co-efficiant down to tied 10th so we lose guaranteed Champions League group stage place for thd season after next. Czechs beat us due to scoring more this season. But the reward for 3rd/cup winners goes down to 12th place so likely stays quo for us...maybd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midloth_Iain Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Hans Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 5 hours ago, Midloth_Iain said: So we need Plzen to draw Aston Villa preferably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 20 minutes ago, Super_Hans said: So we need Plzen to draw Aston Villa preferably. To finish 10th and get CL GS, yes, but it's not essential for Conference League GS, though, 11th & 12th are fine Would rather OF get F all CL money and generate more points in the 2 lower comps 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super_Hans Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 4 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said: To finish 10th and get CL GS, yes, but it's not essential for Conference League GS, though, 11th & 12th are fine Would rather OF get F all CL money and generate more points in the 2 lower comps 👍 Ah right, was thinking it would have an affect on us potentially. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Just now, Super_Hans said: Ah right, was thinking it would have an affect on us potentially. Cheers 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VALDOS' Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Is Europa league group guaranteed for the 3rd place, or is it the conference group as back up that's the guarantee? I'll be honest, the latter would be the more enjoyable experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 22 minutes ago, VALDOS' said: Is Europa league group guaranteed for the 3rd place, or is it the conference group as back up that's the guarantee? I'll be honest, the latter would be the more enjoyable experience. The Big Cup winners will take the EL play-off spot; if the winners are top 2, in League, then the spot goes to 3rd in the League 3rd place team wins cup, same outcome This guarantees a Conference League GS spot ===== the next spot gets a EL 2nd Q spot; if they get to the 4th round in EL qualifying, they'll also get a Conference League GS spot; this assuming one of the top 3 takes the Cup spot 5th in the League gets a Conference League 2nd Q spot too; the wee team got this last time A bit complex, but hey-ho, that's UEFA - Edited March 15 by Ricardo Quaresma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarmerTweedy Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 5 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said: To finish 10th and get CL GS, yes, but it's not essential for Conference League GS, though, 11th & 12th are fine Would rather OF get F all CL money and generate more points in the 2 lower comps 👍 It's worth bearing in mind that even if we drop to 11th, next season's Premiership winners will almost certainly get straight into the CL group stage anyway, because there are places reserved for the previous season's CL and EL winners, but if those clubs also qualify directly for the group stage through their domestic league, it leaves a vacant space which goes to the champions of the highest ranked country that doesn't have an automatic group stage place (unless UEFA have changed the rules on this without me noticing!). The Champions League winners, in particular, are likely to be a club from one of the major leagues and likely to finish their domestic league in a position that gives them group stage football. Edited March 15 by FarmerTweedy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, FarmerTweedy said: It's worth bearing in mind that even if we drop to 11th, next season's Premiership winners will almost certainly get straight into the CL group stage anyway, because there are places reserved for the previous season's CL and EL winners, but if those clubs also qualify directly for the group stage through their domestic league, it leaves a vacant space which goes to the champions of the highest ranked country that doesn't have an automatic group stage place (unless UEFA have changed the rules on this without me noticing!). The Champions League winners, in particular, are likely to be a club from one of the major leagues and likely to finish their domestic league in a position that gives them group stage football. They will, as acknowedged further up Hasn't stopped @HopeDiouf blowing off up the page though Seems to have me on ignore, because of his daft argument months ago, which he's not getting into here, when I posted stats about how Naismith's results sky-rocketed after he was permanent HC, starting with the 2-0 win at home to the sheep How's your 'argument' now, pal? Edit: disclaimer, might be the 'other Scottish Football' thread, but Academic since he's ignoring everything anyway - Edited March 15 by Ricardo Quaresma Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HopeDiouf Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said: They will, as acknowedged further up Hasn't stopped @HopeDiouf blowing off up the page though Seems to have me on ignore, because of his daft argument months ago, which he's not getting into here, when I posted stats about how Naismith's results sky-rocketed after he was permanent HC, starting with the 2-0 win at home to the sheep How's your 'argument' now, pal? - As Naismith has said all along, it's the same team in charge as has been all season. Are you still wanting McAvoy sacked? Still raging when he's on the sidelines speaking to players before they go on? And for a man who claims to be better at working the internet than 99.99% of people on here, you'd think you could manage to reply on the right thread if you want to have a pop at somebody Edited March 15 by HopeDiouf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 minute ago, HopeDiouf said: As Naismith has said all along, it's the same team in charge as has been all season. Are you still wanting McAvoy sacked? Still raging when he's on the sidelines speaking to players before they go on? Wasn't raging and I think FM has successfully resumed his role previously held Read the replies to your earlier posts yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 @HopeDiouf, didn't want FM sacked, just wanted him away from the 1st team at the time, because they seemed affected by his presence Also sincerely thanked him for his efforts in one post, because it took balls to carry out what he did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Quaresma Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Past my bedtime, night all 🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckies1874 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Went to have a look at potential dates for European games later in the year, so I could put them in the calendar and I've ended up spending wayyyyy too long looking at the new format etc But to be fair I think it's pretty exciting and it's really huge for our club to be getting involved both because of the financial windfall it brings but more importantly because it raises our profile each and every season we can achieve this. As the capital of Scotland it's important we as the 3rd largest club in a football mad country are competing every season even if it's routinely in the Conference League. There have been plenty of posts with some of this info already on the thread but just to confirm a few things and hopefully save some people the trouble of looking for themselves, I've put the likely dates of interest below. It's my strong view that 3rd is wrapped up so the only 'threat' to the below is Aberdeen winning the Scottish Cup - improbable in my view! Therefore I think this is what things will look like for Hearts: The Europa League Play off Draw is on Monday 5th August and the games are on Thursday 22nd August and Thursday 29th August. The draw for the Group stages of both the Europa League and Conference League are on Friday 30th August so whether we win or lose the Europa League Play Off round we will be involved in that. The difference between the two is that we will either face either 8 games (EL) or 6 games (CL). These will be against either 8 or 6 different teams with 4 or 3 home/away games. This is in a league format. Realistically we will be up against it to win the Europa League Play Off and that being the case we would fall into the Conference League and play 6 matches: Thursday 3rd October Thursday 24th October Thursday 7th November Thursday 28th November Thursday 12th December Thursday 19th December If we did somehow win the EL Play off we would have an additional 2 Thursday matches 23rd January 2025 30th January 2025 Thursday 19th December would also be replaced by Thursday 26th September. Of the 36 teams in the Group Stage (in both EL and CL competitions) only 12 will be eliminated leaving 24 teams so it's not out of the realms of possibility we could be competitive in hoping to avoid elimination. The top 8 teams in the League will automatically qualify for the last 16 with teams 9-24 playing in a 2 legged knock out round. These games are played: Thursday 13th February 2025 Thursday 20th February 2025 That's probably optimistic enough for now 😂 As things stand Hearts would be in Pot 5 for the Conference League draw meaning we fall seeding wise in spots 25-30 of the likely participants. One thing that immediately seems obvious is that the football calendar is once again getting squeezed tremendously. When you consider Scotland have 6 Nations League games in Sept-Nov too there are going to be very few free midweeks. A big squad required, so even more reason to be pleased with what has gone down in the last few days. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 3 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said: Went to have a look at potential dates for European games later in the year, so I could put them in the calendar and I've ended up spending wayyyyy too long looking at the new format etc But to be fair I think it's pretty exciting and it's really huge for our club to be getting involved both because of the financial windfall it brings but more importantly because it raises our profile each and every season we can achieve this. As the capital of Scotland it's important we as the 3rd largest club in a football mad country are competing every season even if it's routinely in the Conference League. There have been plenty of posts with some of this info already on the thread but just to confirm a few things and hopefully save some people the trouble of looking for themselves, I've put the likely dates of interest below. It's my strong view that 3rd is wrapped up so the only 'threat' to the below is Aberdeen winning the Scottish Cup - improbable in my view! Therefore I think this is what things will look like for Hearts: The Europa League Play off Draw is on Monday 5th August and the games are on Thursday 22nd August and Thursday 29th August. The draw for the Group stages of both the Europa League and Conference League are on Friday 30th August so whether we win or lose the Europa League Play Off round we will be involved in that. The difference between the two is that we will either face either 8 games (EL) or 6 games (CL). These will be against either 8 or 6 different teams with 4 or 3 home/away games. This is in a league format. Realistically we will be up against it to win the Europa League Play Off and that being the case we would fall into the Conference League and play 6 matches: Thursday 3rd October Thursday 24th October Thursday 7th November Thursday 28th November Thursday 12th December Thursday 19th December If we did somehow win the EL Play off we would have an additional 2 Thursday matches 23rd January 2025 30th January 2025 Thursday 19th December would also be replaced by Thursday 26th September. Of the 36 teams in the Group Stage (in both EL and CL competitions) only 12 will be eliminated leaving 24 teams so it's not out of the realms of possibility we could be competitive in hoping to avoid elimination. The top 8 teams in the League will automatically qualify for the last 16 with teams 9-24 playing in a 2 legged knock out round. These games are played: Thursday 13th February 2025 Thursday 20th February 2025 That's probably optimistic enough for now 😂 As things stand Hearts would be in Pot 5 for the Conference League draw meaning we fall seeding wise in spots 25-30 of the likely participants. One thing that immediately seems obvious is that the football calendar is once again getting squeezed tremendously. When you consider Scotland have 6 Nations League games in Sept-Nov too there are going to be very few free midweeks. A big squad required, so even more reason to be pleased with what has gone down in the last few days. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful! Good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckies1874 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 7 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said: Good work. Cheers. I'm going to add the caveat that none of us want to even consider and that is that Aberdeen do win the Scottish Cup. Not only would that be a massive kick in the stanes general it would of course be a huge setback financially. Not only that however it would mean our European season kicked off literally a month earlier, something we could do without for numerous reasons. if they did win the Cup we would play in Europa League which is drawn on the 19th June and games played on Thursday 25th July and Thursday 1st August. If we cam through that we would then play on Thursday 8th and Thursday 15th August so 4 games before we even get to the Play Off (which also has the fallback to the Conference) of the Europa League. It's therefore just massive for us to seal 3rd and then see Aberdeen beaten in the Cup. You can't really overstate just how big the difference between the 2 scenarios is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 1 hour ago, Luckies1874 said: Went to have a look at potential dates for European games later in the year, so I could put them in the calendar and I've ended up spending wayyyyy too long looking at the new format etc But to be fair I think it's pretty exciting and it's really huge for our club to be getting involved both because of the financial windfall it brings but more importantly because it raises our profile each and every season we can achieve this. As the capital of Scotland it's important we as the 3rd largest club in a football mad country are competing every season even if it's routinely in the Conference League. There have been plenty of posts with some of this info already on the thread but just to confirm a few things and hopefully save some people the trouble of looking for themselves, I've put the likely dates of interest below. It's my strong view that 3rd is wrapped up so the only 'threat' to the below is Aberdeen winning the Scottish Cup - improbable in my view! Therefore I think this is what things will look like for Hearts: The Europa League Play off Draw is on Monday 5th August and the games are on Thursday 22nd August and Thursday 29th August. The draw for the Group stages of both the Europa League and Conference League are on Friday 30th August so whether we win or lose the Europa League Play Off round we will be involved in that. The difference between the two is that we will either face either 8 games (EL) or 6 games (CL). These will be against either 8 or 6 different teams with 4 or 3 home/away games. This is in a league format. Realistically we will be up against it to win the Europa League Play Off and that being the case we would fall into the Conference League and play 6 matches: Thursday 3rd October Thursday 24th October Thursday 7th November Thursday 28th November Thursday 12th December Thursday 19th December If we did somehow win the EL Play off we would have an additional 2 Thursday matches 23rd January 2025 30th January 2025 Thursday 19th December would also be replaced by Thursday 26th September. Of the 36 teams in the Group Stage (in both EL and CL competitions) only 12 will be eliminated leaving 24 teams so it's not out of the realms of possibility we could be competitive in hoping to avoid elimination. The top 8 teams in the League will automatically qualify for the last 16 with teams 9-24 playing in a 2 legged knock out round. These games are played: Thursday 13th February 2025 Thursday 20th February 2025 That's probably optimistic enough for now 😂 As things stand Hearts would be in Pot 5 for the Conference League draw meaning we fall seeding wise in spots 25-30 of the likely participants. One thing that immediately seems obvious is that the football calendar is once again getting squeezed tremendously. When you consider Scotland have 6 Nations League games in Sept-Nov too there are going to be very few free midweeks. A big squad required, so even more reason to be pleased with what has gone down in the last few days. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful! brilliant. Thanks for doing all that 👍👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, Luckies1874 said: Cheers. I'm going to add the caveat that none of us want to even consider and that is that Aberdeen do win the Scottish Cup. Not only would that be a massive kick in the stanes general it would of course be a huge setback financially. Not only that however it would mean our European season kicked off literally a month earlier, something we could do without for numerous reasons. if they did win the Cup we would play in Europa League which is drawn on the 19th June and games played on Thursday 25th July and Thursday 1st August. If we cam through that we would then play on Thursday 8th and Thursday 15th August so 4 games before we even get to the Play Off (which also has the fallback to the Conference) of the Europa League. It's therefore just massive for us to seal 3rd and then see Aberdeen beaten in the Cup. You can't really overstate just how big the difference between the 2 scenarios is. Scenario 1) Aberdeen would have to beat both arse cheeks. Not happening Scenario 2) they’d have to beat us in the final - the £6m game. Oooft that would be something but in our own hands Scenario 3) they get emptied by Celtic who will be hell bent on winning the game given the title is slipping. I’ll wager scenario 3 Edited March 25 by 1971fozzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Libertarian Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 5 hours ago, Luckies1874 said: Went to have a look at potential dates for European games later in the year, so I could put them in the calendar and I've ended up spending wayyyyy too long looking at the new format etc But to be fair I think it's pretty exciting and it's really huge for our club to be getting involved both because of the financial windfall it brings but more importantly because it raises our profile each and every season we can achieve this. As the capital of Scotland it's important we as the 3rd largest club in a football mad country are competing every season even if it's routinely in the Conference League. There have been plenty of posts with some of this info already on the thread but just to confirm a few things and hopefully save some people the trouble of looking for themselves, I've put the likely dates of interest below. It's my strong view that 3rd is wrapped up so the only 'threat' to the below is Aberdeen winning the Scottish Cup - improbable in my view! Therefore I think this is what things will look like for Hearts: The Europa League Play off Draw is on Monday 5th August and the games are on Thursday 22nd August and Thursday 29th August. The draw for the Group stages of both the Europa League and Conference League are on Friday 30th August so whether we win or lose the Europa League Play Off round we will be involved in that. The difference between the two is that we will either face either 8 games (EL) or 6 games (CL). These will be against either 8 or 6 different teams with 4 or 3 home/away games. This is in a league format. Realistically we will be up against it to win the Europa League Play Off and that being the case we would fall into the Conference League and play 6 matches: Thursday 3rd October Thursday 24th October Thursday 7th November Thursday 28th November Thursday 12th December Thursday 19th December If we did somehow win the EL Play off we would have an additional 2 Thursday matches 23rd January 2025 30th January 2025 Thursday 19th December would also be replaced by Thursday 26th September. Of the 36 teams in the Group Stage (in both EL and CL competitions) only 12 will be eliminated leaving 24 teams so it's not out of the realms of possibility we could be competitive in hoping to avoid elimination. The top 8 teams in the League will automatically qualify for the last 16 with teams 9-24 playing in a 2 legged knock out round. These games are played: Thursday 13th February 2025 Thursday 20th February 2025 That's probably optimistic enough for now 😂 As things stand Hearts would be in Pot 5 for the Conference League draw meaning we fall seeding wise in spots 25-30 of the likely participants. One thing that immediately seems obvious is that the football calendar is once again getting squeezed tremendously. When you consider Scotland have 6 Nations League games in Sept-Nov too there are going to be very few free midweeks. A big squad required, so even more reason to be pleased with what has gone down in the last few days. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful! Fantastically informative. Thanks very much and great work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 4 hours ago, 1971fozzy said: Scenario 1) Aberdeen would have to beat both arse cheeks. Not happening Scenario 2) they’d have to beat us in the final - the £6m game. Oooft that would be something but in our own hands Scenario 3) they get emptied by Celtic who will be hell bent on winning the game given the title is slipping. I’ll wager scenario 3 They're going to be facing Celtic without Shinnie IIRC. I'd give them an outside shot with him. Without him, it's going to take an epic faceplant by the hoops for them to go through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveandal Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 It all feels a little dirty wanting Celtic to win a game but football is a funny old game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byyy The Light Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 11 hours ago, Luckies1874 said: Went to have a look at potential dates for European games later in the year, so I could put them in the calendar and I've ended up spending wayyyyy too long looking at the new format etc But to be fair I think it's pretty exciting and it's really huge for our club to be getting involved both because of the financial windfall it brings but more importantly because it raises our profile each and every season we can achieve this. As the capital of Scotland it's important we as the 3rd largest club in a football mad country are competing every season even if it's routinely in the Conference League. There have been plenty of posts with some of this info already on the thread but just to confirm a few things and hopefully save some people the trouble of looking for themselves, I've put the likely dates of interest below. It's my strong view that 3rd is wrapped up so the only 'threat' to the below is Aberdeen winning the Scottish Cup - improbable in my view! Therefore I think this is what things will look like for Hearts: The Europa League Play off Draw is on Monday 5th August and the games are on Thursday 22nd August and Thursday 29th August. The draw for the Group stages of both the Europa League and Conference League are on Friday 30th August so whether we win or lose the Europa League Play Off round we will be involved in that. The difference between the two is that we will either face either 8 games (EL) or 6 games (CL). These will be against either 8 or 6 different teams with 4 or 3 home/away games. This is in a league format. Realistically we will be up against it to win the Europa League Play Off and that being the case we would fall into the Conference League and play 6 matches: Thursday 3rd October Thursday 24th October Thursday 7th November Thursday 28th November Thursday 12th December Thursday 19th December If we did somehow win the EL Play off we would have an additional 2 Thursday matches 23rd January 2025 30th January 2025 Thursday 19th December would also be replaced by Thursday 26th September. Of the 36 teams in the Group Stage (in both EL and CL competitions) only 12 will be eliminated leaving 24 teams so it's not out of the realms of possibility we could be competitive in hoping to avoid elimination. The top 8 teams in the League will automatically qualify for the last 16 with teams 9-24 playing in a 2 legged knock out round. These games are played: Thursday 13th February 2025 Thursday 20th February 2025 That's probably optimistic enough for now 😂 As things stand Hearts would be in Pot 5 for the Conference League draw meaning we fall seeding wise in spots 25-30 of the likely participants. One thing that immediately seems obvious is that the football calendar is once again getting squeezed tremendously. When you consider Scotland have 6 Nations League games in Sept-Nov too there are going to be very few free midweeks. A big squad required, so even more reason to be pleased with what has gone down in the last few days. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful! Really good info. Appreciated. The big thing that jumps out for me, before you went on to mention it yourself, was the number of games and the toll the travelling and playing will have on the squad. Taking part in this will be brilliant for recognition and cash but maintaining 3rd place in the league will be a monumental struggle. If we manage to compete on both fronts then we'd definitely begin to create a decent gap financially with the rest of the league. Hotel and FoH doing their bit too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalryJambo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 On 13/03/2024 at 06:37, Libertarian said: The money that Hearts will make by playing regular European football (i.e. group stage football) will allow the club to grow, sign and keep better players and thus win more trophies. As with many things in life you've got to play the long game. People don't like long term plans, but if we start finishing 3rd 4 years out of 5 the slow increment injection of European income will help us grow and slowly make it more realistic for us to bridge the gap to the old firm. It's one of the quirks of the SPL in as much as there's never consistent 3rd and 4th placed challengers. The old firm, and indirectly the sfa/refs, constantly undermine any potential challengers by weakening thier squads and subtly hampering thier progress to ensure no one breaks through. The finances are also all so minimal for everyone else that it's impossible to really build for long sustained growth. In Budge, FoH and benefactors Hearts have somehow managed to invest in all the right things, without saddling ourselves with a mountain of debt. I genuinely think we're on the cusp of breaking away from the rest and starting to edge that little bit closer to the old firm. That might help others bridge the gap also and in the end make Scottish football stronger over all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in space Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 12 hours ago, Luckies1874 said: Went to have a look at potential dates for European games later in the year, so I could put them in the calendar and I've ended up spending wayyyyy too long looking at the new format etc But to be fair I think it's pretty exciting and it's really huge for our club to be getting involved both because of the financial windfall it brings but more importantly because it raises our profile each and every season we can achieve this. As the capital of Scotland it's important we as the 3rd largest club in a football mad country are competing every season even if it's routinely in the Conference League. There have been plenty of posts with some of this info already on the thread but just to confirm a few things and hopefully save some people the trouble of looking for themselves, I've put the likely dates of interest below. It's my strong view that 3rd is wrapped up so the only 'threat' to the below is Aberdeen winning the Scottish Cup - improbable in my view! Therefore I think this is what things will look like for Hearts: The Europa League Play off Draw is on Monday 5th August and the games are on Thursday 22nd August and Thursday 29th August. The draw for the Group stages of both the Europa League and Conference League are on Friday 30th August so whether we win or lose the Europa League Play Off round we will be involved in that. The difference between the two is that we will either face either 8 games (EL) or 6 games (CL). These will be against either 8 or 6 different teams with 4 or 3 home/away games. This is in a league format. Realistically we will be up against it to win the Europa League Play Off and that being the case we would fall into the Conference League and play 6 matches: Thursday 3rd October Thursday 24th October Thursday 7th November Thursday 28th November Thursday 12th December Thursday 19th December If we did somehow win the EL Play off we would have an additional 2 Thursday matches 23rd January 2025 30th January 2025 Thursday 19th December would also be replaced by Thursday 26th September. Of the 36 teams in the Group Stage (in both EL and CL competitions) only 12 will be eliminated leaving 24 teams so it's not out of the realms of possibility we could be competitive in hoping to avoid elimination. The top 8 teams in the League will automatically qualify for the last 16 with teams 9-24 playing in a 2 legged knock out round. These games are played: Thursday 13th February 2025 Thursday 20th February 2025 That's probably optimistic enough for now 😂 As things stand Hearts would be in Pot 5 for the Conference League draw meaning we fall seeding wise in spots 25-30 of the likely participants. One thing that immediately seems obvious is that the football calendar is once again getting squeezed tremendously. When you consider Scotland have 6 Nations League games in Sept-Nov too there are going to be very few free midweeks. A big squad required, so even more reason to be pleased with what has gone down in the last few days. Anyway, I hope this is somewhat helpful! Well Done Luckies. Details in my diary. I can now go ahead and book holidays and other plans for the rest of the year. Not even going to consider Dons winning the cup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Rob Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 34 minutes ago, DalryJambo said: As with many things in life you've got to play the long game. People don't like long term plans, but if we start finishing 3rd 4 years out of 5 the slow increment injection of European income will help us grow and slowly make it more realistic for us to bridge the gap to the old firm. It's one of the quirks of the SPL in as much as there's never consistent 3rd and 4th placed challengers. The old firm, and indirectly the sfa/refs, constantly undermine any potential challengers by weakening thier squads and subtly hampering thier progress to ensure no one breaks through. The finances are also all so minimal for everyone else that it's impossible to really build for long sustained growth. In Budge, FoH and benefactors Hearts have somehow managed to invest in all the right things, without saddling ourselves with a mountain of debt. I genuinely think we're on the cusp of breaking away from the rest and starting to edge that little bit closer to the old firm. That might help others bridge the gap also and in the end make Scottish football stronger over all. The much-talked-about ‘next level’ for us isn’t challenging the arsecheeks. It’s establishing ourselves as the regular ‘best of the rest’ (we’re not that far off, but last season’s collapse was a wake-up call) and becoming competitive in Europe (in particular being able to make group stages via the qualifiers, because chances are we’ll need to do that in the future). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalryJambo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Just now, Doc Rob said: The much-talked-about ‘next level’ for us isn’t challenging the arsecheeks. It’s establishing ourselves as the regular ‘best of the rest’ (we’re not that far off, but last season’s collapse was a wake-up call) and becoming competitive in Europe (in particular being able to make group stages via the qualifiers, because chances are we’ll need to do that in the future). Isn't that basically what I said? I completely agree with that, but the long term goal must be to start challenging with the old firm for the league. Securing 3, 4 out of 5 years will be the first step towards that. Regular European income, getting more competitive at that level and then increasing our yearly player sales will all be required as new, more regular and sustained income streams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Rob Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 9 minutes ago, DalryJambo said: Isn't that basically what I said? I completely agree with that, but the long term goal must be to start challenging with the old firm for the league. Securing 3, 4 out of 5 years will be the first step towards that. Regular European income, getting more competitive at that level and then increasing our yearly player sales will all be required as new, more regular and sustained income streams. Yes. Sorry, I was agreeing with you. Apologies if it sounded otherwise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 1 hour ago, DalryJambo said: As with many things in life you've got to play the long game. People don't like long term plans, but if we start finishing 3rd 4 years out of 5 the slow increment injection of European income will help us grow and slowly make it more realistic for us to bridge the gap to the old firm. It's one of the quirks of the SPL in as much as there's never consistent 3rd and 4th placed challengers. The old firm, and indirectly the sfa/refs, constantly undermine any potential challengers by weakening thier squads and subtly hampering thier progress to ensure no one breaks through. The finances are also all so minimal for everyone else that it's impossible to really build for long sustained growth. In Budge, FoH and benefactors Hearts have somehow managed to invest in all the right things, without saddling ourselves with a mountain of debt. I genuinely think we're on the cusp of breaking away from the rest and starting to edge that little bit closer to the old firm. That might help others bridge the gap also and in the end make Scottish football stronger over all. Not HAVING to sell to balance books is a massive leap. The infrastructure not being a constant draining plughole and actually providing income is also massive. Its a whole remodelling thats gone on at the club. Football decisions could have been better for sure but the primary aim has been to develop income streams and portfolio with a view to foundations that will see us pull a little further away each yr from the pack over the next decade. Watch sheep implode over next 5 yrs as £££ runs out. I guess our next big target is an increase on player trading year on year. Thats a monumental challenge as the pipeline has to remain backfilled with fresh young guys breaking through every yr, constantly, to sustain that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalryJambo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 32 minutes ago, pettigrewsstylist said: Not HAVING to sell to balance books is a massive leap. The infrastructure not being a constant draining plughole and actually providing income is also massive. Its a whole remodelling thats gone on at the club. Football decisions could have been better for sure but the primary aim has been to develop income streams and portfolio with a view to foundations that will see us pull a little further away each yr from the pack over the next decade. Watch sheep implode over next 5 yrs as £££ runs out. I guess our next big target is an increase on player trading year on year. Thats a monumental challenge as the pipeline has to remain backfilled with fresh young guys breaking through every yr, constantly, to sustain that. 100%. If part of the strategy is increased income through increased player sales there's a lot that needs to be in place. You need to be able to fund the top of the funnel and constantly be investing in 5 to 6 players each year that can be developed over time. You need to have the depth so if you lose your best left back or center half you have someone waiting to step up so the team isn’t impacted. You also need to be stable enough so that you don't need to sell anyone, hopefully maximising each players value. I'm not sure people appreciate what's happening at the club in front of their eyes. Bit by bit there are lot of building blocks being put in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 With the guaranteed group stages cash far from certain in the coming seasons , it feels like the right time to be channelling benefactor and FOH money towards the playing side . Surely the next level that people are so keen to see us reach , is being able to negotiate the group stages and play offs to qualify for Europe on our own steam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japan Jambo Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 On 15/03/2024 at 02:36, Super_Hans said: So we need Plzen to draw Aston Villa preferably. Looks like they got Fiorentina... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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