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Identifying the problem,and the solution.


Bongo 1874

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Bongo 1874

Playing the back three to suit and give players a game,Is not beneficial to Heart Of Midlothian Football Club.

 

3 goals first half yesterday,chashing the game we then changed to a back four.

 

I'm a massive supporter of Naismith and club,but they got it wrong yesterday.

 

Forrest shouldn't of been dropped,he would occupy Tavernier due to him having pace and his workrate.

 

This left us exposed.

 

The centre of the pitch we didn't get near Diomande or Lundstram.

 

Shankland not good enough yesterday for me.

 

He's captain he takes responsibility and steps up.

 

Need to show a massive performance on Wednesday.

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loveofthegame

Win on Wednesday and yesterday is forgotten. Not the first and won't be the last time we get thumped in Glasgow.

 

The level of performance and manner of the defeat definitely frustrating and a real reality check following our run, but ultimately 0 points was the expected return yesterday and 3 points is the expected return Wednesday. If that is how this plays out then I'll be over yesterday pretty quickly.

 

Hibs won't be a walk in the park though, they've goals in the team and Montgomery has sadly finally realised that he can't just play an old fashioned 4-4-2. The good news is that their centre midfield and defence are still tatties.

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The same 3 worked to perfection against Celtic. The difference in that game was the attitude and application. We were brave on the ball and aggressive in the tackle. Cochrane and Atkinson in particular dominated their respective wings.

Yesterday was the polar opposite. Rangers were allowed to create overloads virtually anywhere they saw fit.
 

Against the other teams though, I agree it’s just not required.

Edited by liam11
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RustyRightPeg

Rangers were just better than us yesterday. That was the problem. 
 

These boring threads pretending you’re a super fan, when you spent the majority of the summer ripping into the board, several members of the squad and management aren’t lost on us Bongo. Give it a break. 

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I think how we set up wasn't ideal but individual errors did play a big factor. Atkinson & Cochrane IIRC were at fault for losing the ball in the 1st goal, Rowles kills the game just as we're looking to settle by losing the ball high up the field because he couldn't handle the press. Goal just after half time came from indecision. 

 

Rangers played us off the park, but when you analyse the individual goals, that game didn't need to be a 5-0 loss. 

 

Its a sore loss because it tears down how far along we (certainly I) thought we were. 

 

Obvious answer is to look at the quality of the players and their limitations. For example, Beni's lack of hustle, is that an issue for us? Kingsley playing on his weaker side? Atkinson continuing to lose the ball in dangerous areas? Rowles lack of physicality? the lack of a quality attacking mid? Cochranes refusal to take more than 2 strides with the ball? Can we improve on any of these?Maybe. 

 

Naismith has earned a lot of trust and faith over the last few months, so this result looks like an outlier. I'm sure if backed in the transfer market he will improve the team. My big worry is around Shankland. At times it feels like he's carrying the team beause the other attacking players aren't even a level behind him (they are several).

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ArcticJambo

Just show some ****ing humility and start with a solid back four, stifle their widemen/overlaps and work our way into the game.  We've been on a great run, points wise anyway, use the heid!  And ffs make sure the top boys are. up for it, they should know what's coming.  Wasn't really expecting any points yesterday but I was expecting us to show that we're worthy of an up and coming 3rd placed team.  Frankly it was pathetic!  My last word on it.

 

Looking forward to Wednesday, as I feel there's a bit more at stake now.

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Ricardo Quaresma
21 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Rangers were just better than us yesterday. That was the problem. 
 

These boring threads pretending you’re a super fan, when you spent the majority of the summer ripping into the board, several members of the squad and management aren’t lost on us Bongo. Give it a break. 

 

This; merge all the reaction threads, because the sensible peeps just want to move on, we needed to be better for longer in the game that is all

 

Bet there's even more of theses threads, that's about 10 - 12 now

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JimmyCant
12 minutes ago, OTT said:

I think how we set up wasn't ideal but individual errors did play a big factor. Atkinson & Cochrane IIRC were at fault for losing the ball in the 1st goal, Rowles kills the game just as we're looking to settle by losing the ball high up the field because he couldn't handle the press. Goal just after half time came from indecision. 

 

Rangers played us off the park, but when you analyse the individual goals, that game didn't need to be a 5-0 loss. 

 

Its a sore loss because it tears down how far along we (certainly I) thought we were. 

 

Obvious answer is to look at the quality of the players and their limitations. For example, Beni's lack of hustle, is that an issue for us? Kingsley playing on his weaker side? Atkinson continuing to lose the ball in dangerous areas? Rowles lack of physicality? the lack of a quality attacking mid? Cochranes refusal to take more than 2 strides with the ball? Can we improve on any of these?Maybe. 

 

Naismith has earned a lot of trust and faith over the last few months, so this result looks like an outlier. I'm sure if backed in the transfer market he will improve the team. My big worry is around Shankland. At times it feels like he's carrying the team beause the other attacking players aren't even a level behind him (they are several).

Yeh it was a bit of a slap down and a bit of a reminder that either of the OF teams in top form are just miles ahead and capable of doing that to any other team.

 

We did make a series of errors for the goals but they pounced on the errors like not many teams would have

 

We also had a very flat performance from the start and we had several players really found out at that level. Beni Rowles and Atkinson all had mares and Clark didn’t look too clever either.

 

But it’s done.Luckily it doesn’t cause too much damage, as long as we shut the page on it right away and put in a shift on Wednesday. Lose to Hibs to the back of this and I’d be a bit more worried.

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Bull's-eye

We need players that get it, dont Shit the bed, play on the front foot, dont make mistakes, play aggressively, have guts and dont support Rangers.

 

Its obvious to everyone.

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Bazzas right boot
51 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Rangers were just better than us yesterday. That was the problem. 
 

These boring threads pretending you’re a super fan, when you spent the majority of the summer ripping into the board, several members of the squad and management aren’t lost on us Bongo. Give it a break. 

 

Good post and to think a 442 /451 would have magically reversed yesterday's result is beyond fantasy.

 

 

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Bazzas right boot
5 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

We need players that get it, dont Shit the bed, play on the front foot, dont make mistakes, play aggressively, have guts and dont support Rangers.

 

Its obvious to everyone.

 

More celtic fans in the team?

😉

 

 

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pettigrewsstylist
38 minutes ago, OTT said:

I think how we set up wasn't ideal but individual errors did play a big factor. Atkinson & Cochrane IIRC were at fault for losing the ball in the 1st goal, Rowles kills the game just as we're looking to settle by losing the ball high up the field because he couldn't handle the press. Goal just after half time came from indecision. 

 

Rangers played us off the park, but when you analyse the individual goals, that game didn't need to be a 5-0 loss. 

 

Its a sore loss because it tears down how far along we (certainly I) thought we were. 

 

Obvious answer is to look at the quality of the players and their limitations. For example, Beni's lack of hustle, is that an issue for us? Kingsley playing on his weaker side? Atkinson continuing to lose the ball in dangerous areas? Rowles lack of physicality? the lack of a quality attacking mid? Cochranes refusal to take more than 2 strides with the ball? Can we improve on any of these?Maybe. 

 

Naismith has earned a lot of trust and faith over the last few months, so this result looks like an outlier. I'm sure if backed in the transfer market he will improve the team. My big worry is around Shankland. At times it feels like he's carrying the team beause the other attacking players aren't even a level behind him (they are several).

Good post. From memory,  around 14 minutes Rowles gets done in Rangers half by Dessers press, who races away but luckily petered out. I wondered then if Rowles would sharpen up to to that press. For the 3rd it is absolutley there to be won by an aggressive, safety first and mentally alert CB.

We were beaten all over the park yesterday and its not down to Kye but his performance in a big game was really dissapointing. For their 2nd im struggling to understand where Atty was on the pitch. Beni and Hoff got "done" by Rowles losing it so not really culpable in my eyes.

Beni had to do better for 1st. For 4th Kent clearly doesnt cover himself in glory but Beni has the chance to put the ball into row Z.

Got to say Clark can do better for 5th.

We were overun in midfield as we lack legs and quality in there against teams that want to win.

Bad day, we move on, 3rd is the prize.

SN summer targets are critical. 

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Bazzas right boot
40 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

Just show some ****ing humility and start with a solid back four, stifle their widemen/overlaps and work our way into the game.  We've been on a great run, points wise anyway, use the heid!  And ffs make sure the top boys are. up for it, they should know what's coming.  Wasn't really expecting any points yesterday but I was expecting us to show that we're worthy of an up and coming 3rd placed team.  Frankly it was pathetic!  My last word on it.

 

Looking forward to Wednesday, as I feel there's a bit more at stake now.

 

Tbf, in tbe cup final we done exactly that and taken it to ET, many posters including the OP were complaining we never "had a go".

 

I think many on here severely underestimate the gulf in the OF teams and ourselves, especially if they play well.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Bazzas right boot
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55 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Rangers were just better than us yesterday. That was the problem. 
 

These boring threads pretending you’re a super fan, when you spent the majority of the summer ripping into the board, several members of the squad and management aren’t lost on us Bongo. Give it a break. 


He’s just trying to help the club!

 

He wants us to be the best Hearts we can be after all…hopefully he can identify some new players we could sign to really help us progress.

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8 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

More celtic fans in the team?

😉

 

 

Why didn’t anyone think of that…. It’s so obvious 🫵👍
has anybody suggested we just try harder…

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Bazzas right boot

Dinnae concede 5 goals- that was the problem. 

If we conceded less and scored more then we have a solution. 

 

Hopefully Naismith can take on board my sage advise.

 

 

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Ex member of the SaS

Player rotation is part of the problem, I know side players need game time to keep them happy/interested, BUT you play your best team week in week out. Players who play together learn what each other will do under different circumstances and they can anticipate what moves they will make. Thus a pass is on even when it doesn't look like it . A blind turn and punt can land at the feet of a player who makes a run you know he will make, waiting until you see that run can more often be too late as the opposition also see the run.

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Bazzas right boot
Just now, jbee647 said:

Why didn’t anyone think of that…. It’s so obvious 🫵👍
has anybody suggested we just try harder…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or believe more.

 

Folk that shriek terms like  believe,  have a go and try harder as a solution still have never answered the question- what if the rangers players also -believe,  try hard and have a go?

 

The team conceded early and made basic mistakes - the two things you can't do at Ibrox or Parkhead.

 

If you concede after 2 minutes,  most know what's happening next.

 

 

 

 

 

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ArcticJambo
17 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Tbf, in tbe cup final we done exactly that and taken it to ET, many posters including the OP were complaining we never "had a go".

 

I think many on here severely underestimate the gulf in the OF teams and ourselves, especially if they play well.

 

 

 

 

I'm not getting into the Cup final again, you and I have polar opposite views on that match.  Yesterday's match and the cup final were completely different scenarios.  Back then they should have been knackered, going into yesterday Rangers were on the rise/picking up steam. It's the failure tio read the room that does my head in.

 

When any team with obvious advantages plays well they're always likely, more so than not to dish out a hiding, when they play well. That usually comes however with the other team failing to turn up.  Unless eveything clicks and they're playing like Brazeeel '70 and '82.  Rangers are definitely not those two teams. And I'm fairly confident about that analysis.

Edited by ArcticJambo
various typos
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1971fozzy

Beaten by a team that is way ahead of us. Some poor individual performances and this happens. Especially away in Glasgow.

sad but a fact of life. Rangers see the title and that gives them that extra.
we move on as (tin hat on) realistically we fight for 3rd and are well on course. Ideal world I’d love to go toe to toe but it rarely happens. The players and management have done brilliantly since mid December and one heavy defeat in Glasgow isn’t the end of the world. We have a great opportunity on Wednesday to get back on track and beat our neighbours keeping them bottom 6 and strengthening our grip again on 3rd

Edited by 1971fozzy
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Chillidigits

This time around Rangers perceived us as more of a threat in view of our winning streak. They were up for it big time and apparently produced their best display of the season. Only good thing to come of it is that no one got injured.( I hope ) Would hate to think some were saving themselves for Wednesday as the game unfolded but wouldn't completely rule it out. A win on Wednesday and we're back on track. We know it and everyone at the club knows it.

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Bazzas right boot
1 minute ago, ArcticJambo said:

I'm not getting into the Cup final again, you and I have polar opposite views on that match.  Yesterday's match and the cup final were completely different scenarios.  Back then they should have been knackered, going into yesterday Rangers were on the up/picking up steam. It's teh failure tio read the room that does my head in.

 

When any team with obvious advantages plays welll they're always likely, more so than not to dish out a hiding, when they play well. That usually comes however with the other team filing to turn up.  Unless eveything clicks and they're playing like Brazeeel '70 and '82.  Rangers are definitely not those two teams. And I'm fairly confident about that analysis.

 

Fair enough but your reply confuses me, no one says rangers are Brazil of old and I see no relevance of that comparison. 

 

I was agreeing with what your original post was saying, or thought was saying in terms that being more pragmatic in our approach in Glasgow gives us a better chance and used the cup final 0-0 draw after 90 v being more open and being 3-0 down at ht yesterday. 

 

Also not too sure why rangers would be knackered and be unable to play a cup final without fitness issues, I think many on here hoped they'd be knackered and unable to play properly,  I do not think they " should have" been knackered to the extent where it effected their game or made us more likley to win-  wishful thinking.

 

Anyway,  a shite start and doing g the basics imo was the issue, you can't do that in Glasgow,  it usually turns messy.

 

 

 

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Bazzas right boot
1 hour ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Playing the back three to suit and give players a game,Is not beneficial to Heart Of Midlothian Football Club.

 

3 goals first half yesterday,chashing the game we then changed to a back four.

 

I'm a massive supporter of Naismith and club,but they got it wrong yesterday.

 

Forrest shouldn't of been dropped,he would occupy Tavernier due to him having pace and his workrate.

 

This left us exposed.

 

The centre of the pitch we didn't get near Diomande or Lundstram.

 

Shankland not good enough yesterday for me.

 

He's captain he takes responsibility and steps up.

 

Need to show a massive performance on Wednesday.

 

Did playing 3 at the back benefit Heart Of Midlothian when we beat celtic 2-0 at Parkhead?

 

 

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Go for it 1308
42 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

We need players that get it, dont Shit the bed, play on the front foot, dont make mistakes, play aggressively, have guts and dont support Rangers.

 

Its obvious to everyone.

Well that's shanks out then. Ffs man , what a post

Mystic_facepalm.png

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ArcticJambo
14 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Fair enough but your reply confuses me, no one says rangers are Brazil of old and I see no relevance of that comparison. 

 

I was agreeing with what your original post was saying, or thought was saying in terms that being more pragmatic in our approach in Glasgow gives us a better chance and used the cup final 0-0 draw after 90 v being more open and being 3-0 down at ht yesterday.

Okay gotcha. For me anyway, I can accept that there is and for the most part always been a disparity between us and the OF but that disparity shortens and lengthens over the years. I just so happen to believe that neither team is particualrly far in front of us, and certainly not 5 goals.

 

Our failure to get it right time after time, especially in the lean OF years (and I class this season as one) is particularly galling.  To me anyway, yesterday was a perfect example of where we should have been able to make a statement wrt our season to date, and what they might expect with any of our upcoming cup game(s). Instead Rangers made the statement, emphatically. Again!

Edited by ArcticJambo
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Bazzas right boot
8 minutes ago, ArcticJambo said:

Okay gotcha. For me anyway, I can accept that there is and for the most part always been a disparity between us and the OF but that disparity shortens and lengthens over the years. I just so happen to believe that neither team is particualrly far in front of us, and certainly not 5 goals.

 

Our failure to get it right time after time, especially in the lean OF years (and I class this season as one) is particularly galling.  To me anyway, yesterday was a perfect example of where we should have been able to make a statement wrt our season to date, and what they might expect with any of our upcoming cup game(s). Instead Rangers made the statement, emphatically.

 

 

Fair and if we didn't concede early and **** up individually it would have been closer,  but we ****ed it.

 

Rangers have been being playing well and creating a lot in every game, they were missing way too many chances but have started to score more now and unfortunately we never helped ourselves.

 

The OF are quite a bit ahead, Rangers could very well beat Benfica mid week., we are miles of that level imo.

 

The gulf being smaller is also over played on here.

 

We'll be around  25 points of the OF at the end of the season.

That's massive and TBH the OF should not allow us near them, if we ever do get within reach of the OF it likley means one of them is badly failing.

 

Doesn't mean we should get skelped every time or beat them sometimes,  but imo it also means no over reaction if we do get beat heavily.

 

 

 

Edited by Bazzas right boot
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We can talk about systems all we want at times. But when individuals make poor decisions (don't track a runner, play a hospital pass, lose cheap possession) it doesn't matter. 

 

Personally yesterday and the semi, 352 hasn't worked against Rangers. I'd have preferred an extra body (Devlin) in the middle of the park denying Rangers space..but I'm just like everyone else. All have opinions. You simply can't lose a goal after 2 minutes...

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2 hours ago, liam11 said:

The same 3 worked to perfection against Celtic. The difference in that game was the attitude and application. We were brave on the ball and aggressive in the tackle. Cochrane and Atkinson in particular dominated their respective wings.

Yesterday was the polar opposite. Rangers were allowed to create overloads virtually anywhere they saw fit.
 

Against the other teams though, I agree it’s just not required.

The other difference in that game was everything aligned.

Celtic didn't create much that day but there were a couple of chances they didn't take which would have changed the game.

We took our chances.

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1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

We need players that get it, dont Shit the bed, play on the front foot, dont make mistakes, play aggressively, have guts and dont support Rangers.

 

Its obvious to everyone.

We won't be playing that many Scottish players then.

Alternatively we could have a team full of Tim's to play Rangers and another for Celtic.

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Famous 1874

Player application and individual mistakes cost us more than the formation did yesterday. 

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3 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Playing the back three to suit and give players a game,Is not beneficial to Heart Of Midlothian Football Club.

 

3 goals first half yesterday,chashing the game we then changed to a back four.

 

I'm a massive supporter of Naismith and club,but they got it wrong yesterday.

 

Forrest shouldn't of been dropped,he would occupy Tavernier due to him having pace and his workrate.

 

This left us exposed.

 

The centre of the pitch we didn't get near Diomande or Lundstram.

 

Shankland not good enough yesterday for me.

 

He's captain he takes responsibility and steps up.

 

Need to show a massive performance on Wednesday.

Agree Naisy's selection didn't help us.  Sadly Beni is not up to high intensity games like yesterday and neither is Atkinson, especially with a  back three.

Yet again our start was sloppy and lethargic - why do our players take so long to get into a game? - and it cost us dear.

Not sure about your criticism of shankland.  What is it that you think he should have done?  I'm not a fan of a forward being captain anyway.

As for the rest, only Hof gets pass marks.

 

Whilst I hope there will be an inquest, the players should not dwell on it, but use it as a determination ensure that the natural order prevails on Wed. 

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20 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

We won't be playing that many Scottish players then.

Alternatively we could have a team full of Tim's to play Rangers and another for Celtic.

THoughtful suggestions!

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1 hour ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Did playing 3 at the back benefit Heart Of Midlothian when we beat celtic 2-0 at Parkhead?

 

 

Celtic that day were miles off the standard that Rangers were yesterday.

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1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

We need players that get it, dont Shit the bed, play on the front foot, dont make mistakes, play aggressively, have guts and dont support Rangers.

 

Its obvious to everyone.

 

1 hour ago, Go for it 1308 said:

Well that's shanks out then. Ffs man , what a post

Mystic_facepalm.png

 

28 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

We won't be playing that many Scottish players then.

Alternatively we could have a team full of Tim's to play Rangers and another for Celtic.

 

Based on historic posts, I'll confidently say that Bulls-eye's post was sarcastic.

 

The fact it's indecipherable from some of the actual nonsense posted here is the point actually worth shaking one's head at in disbelief. 

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Bazzas right boot
8 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

Celtic that day were miles off the standard that Rangers were yesterday.

So aye,  it did worked.

 

 

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
3 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Playing the back three to suit and give players a game,Is not beneficial to Heart Of Midlothian Football Club.

 

3 goals first half yesterday,chashing the game we then changed to a back four.

 

I'm a massive supporter of Naismith and club,but they got it wrong yesterday.

 

Forrest shouldn't of been dropped,he would occupy Tavernier due to him having pace and his workrate.

 

This left us exposed.

 

The centre of the pitch we didn't get near Diomande or Lundstram.

 

Shankland not good enough yesterday for me.

 

He's captain he takes responsibility and steps up.

 

Need to show a massive performance on Wednesday.

The problem is the gulf in money.

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Fort Vallance
3 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Playing the back three to suit and give players a game,Is not beneficial to Heart Of Midlothian Football Club.

 

3 goals first half yesterday,chashing the game we then changed to a back four.

 

I'm a massive supporter of Naismith and club,but they got it wrong yesterday.

 

Forrest shouldn't of been dropped,he would occupy Tavernier due to him having pace and his workrate.

 

This left us exposed.

 

The centre of the pitch we didn't get near Diomande or Lundstram.

 

Shankland not good enough yesterday for me.

 

He's captain he takes responsibility and steps up.

 

Need to show a massive performance on Wednesday.

I don't pretend to be a tactical genius or a statto. But how many times have we started with a 3/5 it hasn't worked and we've gone to a 4 after the break ? Maybe I'm missing something .

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1 hour ago, Fort Vallance said:

I don't pretend to be a tactical genius or a statto. But how many times have we started with a 3/5 it hasn't worked and we've gone to a 4 after the break ? Maybe I'm missing something .

3 in the middle of the park is a must. 

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3 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

Dinnae concede 5 goals- that was the problem. 

If we conceded less and scored more then we have a solution. 

 

Hopefully Naismith can take on board my sage advise.

 

 

Not sure that would have helped yesterday'

If we had scored 2 more and conceded 2 fewer we would still have lost 3-2

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Bazzas right boot
1 minute ago, JamboAl said:

Not sure that would have helped yesterday'

If we had scored 2 more and conceded 2 fewer we would still have lost 3-2

 

No, if we concede fewer goals than we score.

 

It would work. 

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