Rudy T Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 The good thing is it’s all the elite EPL teams hooking up with Scottish teams, I mean it would be a really shit look if it was all the relegation fodder…. Oh wait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 4 minutes ago, boag1874 said: Talent share = we’ll take your best young players for a cut price and give you a shot of some of our less exciting ones to develop for us, if they turn out to be good then we can either integrate them ourselves or sell them to a richer club than you. I honestly don’t think these kind of deals will benefit the Scottish clubs long term. See if it’s Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool etc maybe theres something exciting there with access to some of the worlds most elite youth systems but developing guys who are likely miles off being ready for yo-yo clubs like Burnley with probably little chance of getting the better ones permanently isn’t much of a dealbreaker. This isn’t a dig at the loan system in general, if they improve your team then it’s a good deal, we’ve benefited from it on occasion but for every Alex Cochrane or Ellis Simms theres a Ben Woodburn or Connor Randall. I wouldn’t want to have to shoehorn these guys into the team every single season as part of a “partnership” with an EPL club that view you as a glorified reserve team. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong who knows. I think we've seen over the years that fringe players at clubs as big as Liverpool and Man City still struggle up here on the whole. The thought of the likes of Burnley offloading their dead weight onto us is a no-no from the start imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 6 minutes ago, Berrassobad said: and i get banned off a thread for swearing - pish is obv allowed Pish how? You think Sky and BBC value our game? We get half of what Norway get. All their money goes into our neeburs down south. Now, while I blame US for a lot of that - the SPFL is amateur, its a bloody bowling club committee. A massive issue we have is as simple as the money down south. We can't compete with L1 teams for wages. So, if you "support" Scottish football but love to complain about the standard, but at the same time put money into one of the main issues. Not sure how me feeling that this is the mindset of an A1 gomeral is "pish"? Or shite or boobs, or any of the other wee swearies that get by the filter! Maybe you're happy with how the capitalisation and global branding of football is going? Maybe you think the whole thing should be run for the banks of the elite teams and think that's better than football being truly competitive and about passion and community. Or maybe you can ignore all that and just enjoy the pretty football. Whatever. That's not my point. If you enjoy watching the EPL and Champs League, go for it, no issue. My issue if people - maybe not you - that do this and at the same time totally talk down our league and team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 14 minutes ago, TheBigO said: Arent there already restrictions in place? Genuine question - just assume there are... Agree with you here though. Don't want to become a feeder league. The whole world of football is completely depressing. And anyone who genuinely supports Scottish football but is also an EPL and Champs League fanboy needs a good look at themselves. Guys who talk down Scottish football, complain about it, but put money into the money machines of EPL and UEFA are the epitomy of the problem we face. Absolutely on the button . Pouring money in to the TV league and the same organisation gives Scottish football peanuts . **** that . Hope Sky implode some time in the near future 11 minutes ago, Berrassobad said: and i get banned off a thread for swearing - pish is obv allowed Discussing moderator actions is also frowned upon . Careful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berrassobad Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Just now, TheBigO said: Pish how? You think Sky and BBC value our game? We get half of what Norway get. All their money goes into our neeburs down south. Now, while I blame US for a lot of that - the SPFL is amateur, its a bloody bowling club committee. A massive issue we have is as simple as the money down south. We can't compete with L1 teams for wages. So, if you "support" Scottish football but love to complain about the standard, but at the same time put money into one of the main issues. Not sure how me feeling that this is the mindset of an A1 gomeral is "pish"? Or shite or boobs, or any of the other wee swearies that get by the filter! Maybe you're happy with how the capitalisation and global branding of football is going? Maybe you think the whole thing should be run for the banks of the elite teams and think that's better than football being truly competitive and about passion and community. Or maybe you can ignore all that and just enjoy the pretty football. Whatever. That's not my point. If you enjoy watching the EPL and Champs League, go for it, no issue. My issue if people - maybe not you - that do this and at the same time totally talk down our league and team. correct - maybe not me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berrassobad Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Just now, Sooks said: Absolutely on the button . Pouring money in to the TV league and the same organisation gives Scottish football peanuts . **** that . Hope Sky implode some time in the near future Discussing moderator actions is also frowned upon . Careful cheers - im having a bad day - what time is it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalryJambo Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Just now, Rudy T said: The good thing is it’s all the elite EPL teams hooking up with Scottish teams, I mean it would be a really shit look if it was all the relegation fodder…. Oh wait! In a funny sort of way the lower down the food chain these clubs are (to an extent) the better it will work out , I think. I can't imagine Man City would look at any club in Scotland and think, that's the perfect place to send our £50m rated 18 year old winger! They'll want something more glamorous to massage the players ego. 20 - 24 year olds on the fringes of a bottom third Premiership clubs or top half English Championship clubs first teams, will be a perfect fit for our league. But as I say that, I then wonder why they wouldn't then send then to a 1st division English club...maybe the chance to play in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarrysRightFoot Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I think if this is not addressed it’s ultimately going to be another step on the ladder to the OF leaving but keeping their own ‘B’ teams in our leagues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 56 minutes ago, May98 said: We have just done exactly that with our right back and also last season with Hill? One, maybe two players is just about alright, but when a large proportion of your team is made up of loanees, it'd be tricky to feel any kind of affinity. I'm not convinced the maximum number of loanees from a specific club rule would work either, as they would just put them on the books of another one of their clubs then loan them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joondalupjambo Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, RustyRightPeg said: We’ve not signed more than one player from the same club I don’t think. Certainly no public partnership in place. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/scottish/hearts-consider-playing-league-game-in-australia-72053.html I think this is what was in the back streets of my failing memory 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 "Thank Christ we can leave Burnley...this place is dire......where am I headed boss?" "..........😬.........." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der Kaiser Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 "Thank Christ we can leave Burnley...this place is dire......where am I headed boss?" "..........😬.........." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boag1874 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 18 minutes ago, TheBigO said: Pish how? You think Sky and BBC value our game? We get half of what Norway get. All their money goes into our neeburs down south. Now, while I blame US for a lot of that - the SPFL is amateur, its a bloody bowling club committee. A massive issue we have is as simple as the money down south. We can't compete with L1 teams for wages. So, if you "support" Scottish football but love to complain about the standard, but at the same time put money into one of the main issues. Not sure how me feeling that this is the mindset of an A1 gomeral is "pish"? Or shite or boobs, or any of the other wee swearies that get by the filter! Maybe you're happy with how the capitalisation and global branding of football is going? Maybe you think the whole thing should be run for the banks of the elite teams and think that's better than football being truly competitive and about passion and community. Or maybe you can ignore all that and just enjoy the pretty football. Whatever. That's not my point. If you enjoy watching the EPL and Champs League, go for it, no issue. My issue if people - maybe not you - that do this and at the same time totally talk down our league and team. It’s outrageous how little we get from Sky & the Beeb. The one that annoys me most is BBC. Sky are all about profit, they know what their main seller is and focus most of their interest on that, fair enough in a way however we do still need to look at how proportional that distribution of profits is compared to subscriber numbers in Scotland v England as well as how poorly they market us compared to the money league. The BBC should not be run for profits. They have no advertisers or shareholders to answer to. They have a duty imo to represent all home nations premier sporting leagues and national sides equally. Sportscene compared to motd is a joke and Scotland fans have to pay a subscription service to watch the team while England is on public TV, granted not BBC but still public TV. Linekar etc will be all over the BBC coverage of the Euros, will the Sportscene pundits? Doubt it. Will as much time be dedicated to Scotland as England? Doubt it. It’s ridiculous and holds us back so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DalryJambo Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Craig_ said: One, maybe two players is just about alright, but when a large proportion of your team is made up of loanees, it'd be tricky to feel any kind of affinity. I'm not convinced the maximum number of loanees from a specific club rule would work either, as they would just put them on the books of another one of their clubs then loan them. The wording in the regulations would need to change from 'club' to 'ownership group' or something similar. Edited January 23 by DalryJambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May98 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 37 minutes ago, Craig_ said: One, maybe two players is just about alright, but when a large proportion of your team is made up of loanees, it'd be tricky to feel any kind of affinity. I'm not convinced the maximum number of loanees from a specific club rule would work either, as they would just put them on the books of another one of their clubs then loan them. Teams are not going to be made up of more loanees than they already atm. I understand how you mean though. Sure you can only sign 4 players from one team on loan max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, Sooks said: I agree and I think that is how it will all unfold too . I do not fancy it either . I suspect we will still be in a better shape than Hibs and I would be extremely surprised if we were “ left behind “ like some are suggesting . Like yourself , identity is too important a part of Hearts for me . I suppose what I am trying to say is , I am glad we can sit back and watch what this new reality looks like from a safe distance . As a strong advocate of the 90 % FOH agreement , I am just happy that the decision lies in our hands Would a Dundee-style talent partnership with an ENglish club actually need to be approved by the FoH membership ? Doubt it. The 90% rule isn't relevant to this, imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Lone Striker said: Would a Dundee-style talent partnership with an ENglish club actually need to be approved by the FoH membership ? Doubt it. The 90% rule isn't relevant to this, imo The 90% vote only applies to the sale of FOH's own shares. The Club's Board could decide to issue new shares to a prospective investor (and in the process dilute FOH's holding), but that would obviously require FOH's agreement. The process and consultation with the FOH membership, should that occur, is not explicitly defined, but would not currently require a 90% vote. Any proposed action by the club that significantly affects its operations requires a motion to be passed at general meeting. In that circumstance FOH is obliged to "ascertain the wishes of Members", before deciding how it will vote. What that actually means in the terms of the AOAs is not clear. I believe that Gerry Mallon is planning a review and update of FOH's AoA, part of which will consider share issues, amongst other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyCant Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 13 hours ago, martoon said: Dundee? The club that's been dying a slow death for the last 50 years? That Dundee? The decision makers at Burnley need help. Urgently. Or a sleeping giant who would actually be able to compete meaningfully in the right circumstances with clever investment and access to better players We need to keep an eye on stuff like this. 4-5 clubs having reasonably successful partnerships of this type would change the face of Scottish football and we’d get left behind if we stood still with our own rigid ownership model. Nothing to be concerned about for now though but 5 years down the line ? Who knows. Edited January 23 by JimmyCant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Sounds like quite a few clubs are thinking of doing this in Scotland. Doesn't surprise me, for a low investment Scottish football can be useful place for multi club groups to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyRightPeg Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 7 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said: Sounds like quite a few clubs are thinking of doing this in Scotland. Doesn't surprise me, for a low investment Scottish football can be useful place for multi club groups to use. If anyone hasn't watched the Burnley documentary on Sky I'd recommend it. They know what they're doing down there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 1 hour ago, Footballfirst said: The 90% vote only applies to the sale of FOH's own shares. The Club's Board could decide to issue new shares to a prospective investor (and in the process dilute FOH's holding), but that would obviously require FOH's agreement. The process and consultation with the FOH membership, should that occur, is not explicitly defined, but would not currently require a 90% vote. Any proposed action by the club that significantly affects its operations requires a motion to be passed at general meeting. In that circumstance FOH is obliged to "ascertain the wishes of Members", before deciding how it will vote. What that actually means in the terms of the AOAs is not clear. I believe that Gerry Mallon is planning a review and update of FOH's AoA, part of which will consider share issues, amongst other things. Thanks for that info & for your views. FF 👍 I think anything which provides clarity on what kind of situations require a membership consultation/vote is welcome, especially now that the SPFL is likely to allow multi-club ownership/influence by external businesses. I can't make up my mind if this trend of group influence over mutli-clubs is actually a good thing or not. We fans tend to care more about getting good players from wherever, rather than how these players ended up in our team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malinga the Swinga Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, boag1874 said: It’s outrageous how little we get from Sky & the Beeb. The one that annoys me most is BBC. Sky are all about profit, they know what their main seller is and focus most of their interest on that, fair enough in a way however we do still need to look at how proportional that distribution of profits is compared to subscriber numbers in Scotland v England as well as how poorly they market us compared to the money league. The BBC should not be run for profits. They have no advertisers or shareholders to answer to. They have a duty imo to represent all home nations premier sporting leagues and national sides equally. Sportscene compared to motd is a joke and Scotland fans have to pay a subscription service to watch the team while England is on public TV, granted not BBC but still public TV. Linekar etc will be all over the BBC coverage of the Euros, will the Sportscene pundits? Doubt it. Will as much time be dedicated to Scotland as England? Doubt it. It’s ridiculous and holds us back so much. The one that annoys me most is STV. They do not cover any Scottish sport at any level and haven't done so for years. They will share the Euros or World Cup with BBC but that is UK wide coverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said: Sounds like quite a few clubs are thinking of doing this in Scotland. Doesn't surprise me, for a low investment Scottish football can be useful place for multi club groups to use. Daft question, but "why" is it attractive for a number of clubs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 13 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said: Daft question, but "why" is it attractive for a number of clubs? I’d guess there are a number of reasons it’s becoming more attractive 1. Buying into Scottish clubs is cheap 2. relaxed work permit rules will make it easier to get players into the UK 3. English clubs are running huge squads. Advantageous to farm some of them up here where they can play at a “reasonable” level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martoon Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, JimmyCant said: Or a sleeping giant who would actually be able to compete meaningfully in the right circumstances with clever investment and access to better players We need to keep an eye on stuff like this. 4-5 clubs having reasonably successful partnerships of this type would change the face of Scottish football and we’d get left behind if we stood still with our own rigid ownership model. Nothing to be concerned about for now though but 5 years down the line ? Who knows. Fair points, Jimmy. I'd hope we'd have some wriggle room to make sure we never fall behind others. Although I'd not be keen on what Hibs and Dundee are, apparently, doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, JimmyCant said: Or a sleeping giant who would actually be able to compete meaningfully in the right circumstances with clever investment and access to better players We need to keep an eye on stuff like this. 4-5 clubs having reasonably successful partnerships of this type would change the face of Scottish football and we’d get left behind if we stood still with our own rigid ownership model. Nothing to be concerned about for now though but 5 years down the line ? Who knows. a sleeping giant? 🤣 Dundee no ffs. Dundee is a hellhole That aside I’d agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithian Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 This sounds like a fun idea for Dundee until they end up in second tier and have a promising 18-year old breakthrough as a squad player in the first team who then asks to get a loan down south to play for the U21 of Burnley and some development person at Burnley decides it's better to have them in a U21 then in Scottish second tier. And that move will be made to happen. If Manchester United or Arsenal or a club like that wanted to strike up some partnership, I'd be open to it. It won't happen, but it would be fun and you'd see some special talents come through Tynecastle. But if you told me we were second fiddle to a club that is more Championship-level than Premier League? Gross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nookie Bear Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, kingantti1874 said: I’d guess there are a number of reasons it’s becoming more attractive 1. Buying into Scottish clubs is cheap 2. relaxed work permit rules will make it easier to get players into the UK 3. English clubs are running huge squads. Advantageous to farm some of them up here where they can play at a “reasonable” level It may be cheap but what’s the return on it? Players can be loaned to Scottish clubs now so why restrict to a club like Dundee who could go down? All very odd imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 So we got to see Burnley players Dodgson and Costelloe. They were keen and tidy but not really imposed themselves on the game. Played on left side linking together but didn't impact game. Dundee had several good players who did that. That's 2 games, 2 defeats for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 The two they sent them were crap compared to Lembikisa 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gershwin Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I don't follow an EPL team but I'll now be supporting whoever is playing Bournemouth and Burnley. Will be great to see Hibs' big team fall apart in particular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Striker Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said: It may be cheap but what’s the return on it? Players can be loaned to Scottish clubs now so why restrict to a club like Dundee who could go down? All very odd imo Presumably money is changing hands in these "partnerships" ? Hard to fathom out which way the money flows though - Burnley pay Dundee to give game time to their loan players .... or Burnley charge Dundee for the use of their loan players ? The Sportsound podcast discussed it (Ryan Stevenson and some guy called Jordan Campbell were the guests) - they both saw it as a negative thing if it blocked the progress of the Scottish clubs best youth players from getting into the first team.. As you say, look at Dexter - gem of a player, no formal tie=up with Wolves, just good scouting & planning by Hearts to convince Wolves that the lad will be well looked after here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hansel Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 5 hours ago, Smithian said: This sounds like a fun idea for Dundee until they end up in second tier and have a promising 18-year old breakthrough as a squad player in the first team who then asks to get a loan down south to play for the U21 of Burnley and some development person at Burnley decides it's better to have them in a U21 then in Scottish second tier. And that move will be made to happen. If Manchester United or Arsenal or a club like that wanted to strike up some partnership, I'd be open to it. It won't happen, but it would be fun and you'd see some special talents come through Tynecastle. But if you told me we were second fiddle to a club that is more Championship-level than Premier League? Gross. Remember the last Manchester United player we got on loan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmorewasgash Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Coming soon. 2030 spfl Liverpool Celtic v Chelsea Rangers Burnley Dee v Bournemouth Hibs Crystal Well v Wrexham Dons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambotommy Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Did ye hear about the Dundee fan that took 9 viagra in one day... He got taken into nineswells hospital... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americana Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 23/01/2024 at 13:28, JimmyCant said: Or a sleeping giant who would actually be able to compete meaningfully in the right circumstances with clever investment and access to better players They are playing the best football they have played in a long time and cant fill half their stands. Just dont see the investment in that , even consistent top 6 football wont change that for them. Kilmarnock are sitting in a European place with an average att of about 5000, I think some clubs are just beyond fixing and happy to go through the motions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Torrance Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Missed this at the time. What talent are they sharing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr ewing Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 Bakayako? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 23/01/2024 at 07:14, 1971fozzy said: I mistakenly posted this in another thread without seeing this one. I can see this being terrible for the clubs. At least Dundee haven’t sold part of their club for it unlike Hibs. I would never want this for us. Getting a load of gambles in the door and that’s what it equates too. Hibs dans are dillusional. They are w**k**g themselves into a frenzy about how these signings will raise morale and the levels of existing players etc etc. 3rd is a stick on for them blah blah blah. I see it as the complete opposite. Time will tell but looks like more of the shit clubs up here will be targetted . Can imagine the likes of Livingston, St Johnstone, Dundee Utd, Ross County joining them. The weak , bottom 6 type clubs (and I do include hibs in that) Hibs will face an existential threat in next decade. Tick tock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jack Torrance said: Missed this at the time. What talent are they sharing? Owen Dodgson left back played both Hearts games Data Costelloe left wing back played the first Hearts game at Tynecastle, now returned to Burnley (possibly as Owen Beck came back) Michael Mellon centre forward played the second Hearts game on Saturday Marcel Lewis midfielder not played yet for them Edited February 6 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stirlingshirejambo Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Owen Dodgson left back played both Hearts games Data Costelloe left wing back played the first Hearts game at Tynecastle, now returned to Burnley Michael Mellon centre forward played the second Hearts game on Saturday Marcel Lewis midfielder not played yet for them Are you sure Costello has returned to Burnley. Having played for st Johnston and Dundee this season surely he’ll stay at Dundee for remainder of season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Torrance Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 15 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Owen Dodgson left back played both Hearts games Data Costelloe left wing back played the first Hearts game at Tynecastle, now returned to Burnley (possibly as Owen Beck came back) Michael Mellon centre forward played the second Hearts game on Saturday Marcel Lewis midfielder not played yet for them 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 47 minutes ago, stirlingshirejambo said: Are you sure Costello has returned to Burnley. Having played for st Johnston and Dundee this season surely he’ll stay at Dundee for remainder of season Yes, I think that's a confusion with the St Johnstone loan ending. So that's 4 players they seem to have from Burnley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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