What happens when

[Sir PH]

12 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

 You really don’t understand do you. 
 

They have a population of over 60 million!
 

And as I’ve said numerous times, Scotland comfortably sees more people per head attend football on a weekly basis than England! It has nothing to do with who people are watching! 

Yes, I understand it perfectly well. Even below the professional leagues, English football is well supported. They also have a very well attended rugby union and rugby league set up. Can you tell me why about 95% of our football stadiums are half empty (some less than half empty) if it's so well attended? 

[Luckies1874]

18 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

Yes, I understand it perfectly well. Even below the professional leagues, English football is well supported. They also have a very well attended rugby union and rugby league set up. Can you tell me why about 95% of our football stadiums are half empty (some less than half empty) if it's so well attended? 

 

 

So you are saying "English football is well supported" even though its been pointed out to you that statistically Scottish football is significantly better supported per capita. Give me strength.

 

 

[Bender]

1 hour ago, Sir PH said:

Ok, our stadiums are bursting at the seams every Saturday. 

 

It's a shame you've reacted to some data by throwing your toys out the pram and going to the other extreme. You were wrong about our attendance figures being abysmal, take that like an adult.

[Sir PH]

4 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

So you are saying "English football is well supported" even though its been pointed out to you that statistically Scottish football is significantly better supported per capita. Give me strength.

 

 

I'd like to give you a part of the brain that would understand the reasoning behind it. Alas, I feel it would be wasted.

[Sir PH]

Just now, Bender said:

 

It's a shame you've reacted to some data by throwing your toys out the pram and going to the other extreme. You were wrong about our attendance figures being abysmal, take that like an adult.

Toys out the pram for pointing out that our attendances are indeed abysmal? 

[Unknown user]

52 minutes ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

Which kinda proves that using attendance per head as a part of an argument about the state of football stadiums in Scotland is plainly stupid. 

 

There isn't any money in Scottish Football because of Rangers & Celtic,  they've killed the game between them. It's not rocket science, the attendance per population proves that in fact, the price is low because the product is pish which is another reason the figures are irrelevant, it's affordable to watch games at all levels in Scotland.  

 

A lot of the argument's plainly stupid.

 

England has ten times the population, so you're looking at a much, much higher percentage, and a much, much bigger spread of Scotland's overall football grounds than England's.

[jr ewing]

4 hours ago, Cambo said:

Pre Taylor recommendations, most clubs had majority terracing which had stood for 50 plus years and was easy enough to maintain, at little cost. All seated stadia is far more costly to maintain and clubs who built new grounds or stands in the late 1990s, will start to have to give thought to costly upgrades in the not too distant future. A possible return to terracing isnt the worst idea but stadiums like Dens Park need to go as they are a complete eyesore and bad for image of Scottish football.

Doubt they'll agree with you. 

[jr ewing]

Just now, ǝǝɥʇᴉɯS said:

 

A lot of the argument's plainly stupid.

 

England has ten times the population, so you're looking at a much, much higher percentage, and a much, much bigger spread of Scotland's overall football grounds than England's.

And the TV money 💰 

[Luckies1874]

3 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

I'd like to give you a part of the brain that would understand the reasoning behind it. Alas, I feel it would be wasted.

 

There is no reasoning. Factually you are talking absolute nonsense. You are praising England's football attendance which is not as good as those in Scotland yet calling our's "abysmal". And you are serious about it. It's not even a debate. You have made a complete tit of yourself. 

Edited November 30, 2023 by Luckies1874

[Bender]

1 minute ago, Sir PH said:

Toys out the pram for pointing out that our attendances are indeed abysmal? 

 

This, despite actual data that proves your statement is wrong. You repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.

[Sir PH]

Just now, Luckies1874 said:

 

There is no reasoning. Factually you are talking absolute nonsense. You are praising England's football attendance which is not as good as Scotland yet calling our's "abysmal". And you are serious about it. It's not even a debate. You have made a complete tit of yourself. 

England has a lot of other sports that are very well supported, Scotland doesn't. You've chosen to ignore that, for some bizarre reason, whilst continuing to tell us that Scottish football attendances are wonderful, when we can all see the empty stadiums on a weekly basis. 

[Sir PH]

2 minutes ago, Bender said:

 

This, despite actual data that proves your statement is wrong. You repeating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.

England has other sports that are well attended. Scotland doesn't. 

[Luckies1874]

1 minute ago, Sir PH said:

England has a lot of other sports that are very well supported, Scotland doesn't. You've chosen to ignore that, for some bizarre reason, whilst continuing to tell us that Scottish football attendances are wonderful, when we can all see the empty stadiums on a weekly basis. 

 

 

Ah, it's other sports now is it hahahahaha. England has "a lot of other sports". Not to mention 12 times the population! 

 

Scottish football attendances are wonderful. You are spot on. The best in Europe per capita. Well done. 

 

Your empty stadium argument despite the figures proving that more Scots watch football each week per head than any other nation on this continent is laughable. It means absolutely nothing with regards that statistic. 

[Bender]

2 minutes ago, Sir PH said:

England has other sports that are well attended. Scotland doesn't. 

 

Which is completely irrelevant. Football in Scotland has a better attendance rate than in England. This is absolute fact, are you so desperate to not be wrong in front of some strangers on the internet that you'll deny a fact to make yourself look more knowledgable? It's a very strange hill to die on.

[Sir PH]

4 minutes ago, Bender said:

 

Which is completely irrelevant. Football in Scotland has a better attendance rate than in England. This is absolute fact, are you so desperate to not be wrong in front of some strangers on the internet that you'll deny a fact to make yourself look more knowledgable? It's a very strange hill to die on.

Of course it's relevant. If they didn't have other sports, their football attendances would be even better. And again, their non-league football set up is well supported (you and the other one are also choosing to ignore that). We have two massive clubs that are very well supported, ourselves  Hibs and Aberdeen with a decent support and then it's empty stadiums all over the country. 

[Sir PH]

9 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

Ah, it's other sports now is it hahahahaha. England has "a lot of other sports". Not to mention 12 times the population! 

 

Scottish football attendances are wonderful. You are spot on. The best in Europe per capita. Well done. 

 

Your empty stadium argument despite the figures proving that more Scots watch football each week per head than any other nation on this continent is laughable. It means absolutely nothing with regards that statistic. 

The empty stadium thing is real, we see it every week. 

[Bender]

1 minute ago, Sir PH said:

Of course it's relevant. If they didn't have other sports, their football attendances would be even better. And again, their non-league football set up is well supported (you and the other one are also choosing to ignore that). We have two massive clubs that are very well supported, ourselves  Hibs and Aberdeen with a decent support and then it's empty stadiums all over the country. 

 

Would it? Are people only going to the football because there's nothing else to do in Scotland?

 

I never understand why some individuals are so desperate to talk down the Scottish game at every opportunity, even ignoring actual facts to push this tiresome agenda. Let's talk about how Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and the Old Firm skew our numbers but not how Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea skew the English ones. No bother chief. Just be sure not to turn your ankle with all the mental gymnastics going on here.

[Luckies1874]

1 minute ago, Bender said:

 

Would it? Are people only going to the football because there's nothing else to do in Scotland?

 

I never understand why some individuals are so desperate to talk down the Scottish game at every opportunity, even ignoring actual facts to push this tiresome agenda. Let's talk about how Hearts, Hibs, Aberdeen and the Old Firm skew our numbers but not how Manchester United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham and Chelsea skew the English ones. No bother chief. Just be sure not to turn your ankle with all the mental gymnastics going on here.

 

[JJ93]

15 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Council owned stadiums will be the way forward. 

Why? 

[Rampant]

1 hour ago, Sir PH said:

Yes, I understand it perfectly well. Even below the professional leagues, English football is well supported. They also have a very well attended rugby union and rugby league set up. Can you tell me why about 95% of our football stadiums are half empty (some less than half empty) if it's so well attended? 

Because the stadiums are too big. 

 

But the statistics, even when wrongly adjusted for Celtic and Rangers, prove that attendances are better in Scotland.

 

Yes, there may be more empty seats in Scotland, but there are considerably more bums on seats in Scottish stadiums than in England or anywhere else in Europe, when you factor the relative amount of bums there are in the country to fill those seats.

 

Hearts can't say that we have better attendances than Hibs because Easter Road is bigger than Tynecastle and Hibs end up with more empty seats than Hearts. That would be a daft way to measure it.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Rampant

[Bender]

16 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Council owned stadiums will be the way forward. 

 

Not that this would affect Hearts, but council owned stadia would be a dangerous step for any club to take. That would allow the local council to dictate club policy (as seen with Clyde being kicked out of Broadwood). But most councils are absolutely skint and wouldn't funnel any of their cash into such ventures.

[SM8]

5 hours ago, db211833 said:

Whilst you are right about the numbers, they are massively skewed by Rangers and Celtic 

They actually aren’t. Taking Celtic and Rangers out, we drop from best attended league per capita to fourth. In the world!

Edited November 30, 2023 by SM8

[db211833]

4 minutes ago, SM8 said:

They actually aren’t. Taking Celtic and Rangers out, we drop from best attended league per capita to fourth. In the world!

Haha, you just made my point.

With Rangers and Celtic we are 65% higher than 2nd place.

Without them we drop to 4th.

Still very impressive but to my original point, the headline numbers are massively skewed.
However, in the other direction, taking them out and what you are left with will be almost exclusively Scottish.  Including them and we are actually counting 10's of 000's of Irish in our numbers over the season.

[SM8]

1 minute ago, db211833 said:

Haha, you just made my point.

With Rangers and Celtic we are 65% higher than 2nd place.

Without them we drop to 4th.

Still very impressive but to my original point, the headline numbers are massively skewed.
However, in the other direction, taking them out and what you are left with will be almost exclusively Scottish.  Including them and we are actually counting 10's of 000's of Irish in our numbers over the season.

Dropping from first to fourth out of every top division in the world is not ‘massively skewed’. Who cares regarding your next point? Plenty cross at Larne to support Hearts too, I know several.

[Sir PH]

1 minute ago, SM8 said:

Dropping from first to fourth out of every top division in the world is not ‘massively skewed’. Who cares regarding your next point? Plenty cross at Larne to support Hearts too, I know several.

It's not even close to the numbers that travel from all over the UK, Ireland and beyond, to watch the Old Firm.

[Luckies1874]

1 minute ago, SM8 said:

Dropping from first to fourth out of every top division in the world is not ‘massively skewed’. Who cares regarding your next point? Plenty cross at Larne to support Hearts too, I know several.

 

Indeed. Thousands of fans travel to attend English football every weekend from all over the globe! 

[chrisyboy7]

3 hours ago, R9. said:

I meant Dundee moving into tannadice 

The need to both sell up and share a new stadium...it seems logical but this is scotland so unlikely it will happen 

[db211833]

2 hours ago, SM8 said:

Dropping from first to fourth out of every top division in the world is not ‘massively skewed’. Who cares regarding your next point? Plenty cross at Larne to support Hearts too, I know several.

Haha, brilliant.

Dropping from 65% higher than anyone else to lower than another 3 is massively skewed.

Several??? Have you ever been in Dublin airport on a Friday or Sunday, we are not talking several.

[chrystaf]

4 hours ago, Sir PH said:

Of course it's relevant. If they didn't have other sports, their football attendances would be even better. And again, their non-league football set up is well supported (you and the other one are also choosing to ignore that). We have two massive clubs that are very well supported, ourselves  Hibs and Aberdeen with a decent support and then it's empty stadiums all over the country. 

Agree.  But why compare us with England?  I look at the attendances every week and without doubt grounds are nowhere near capacity.

Is that because of team performances or an indication of different lifestyles?

 

[Sir PH]

1 hour ago, chrystaf said:

Agree.  But why compare us with England?  I look at the attendances every week and without doubt grounds are nowhere near capacity.

Is that because of team performances or an indication of different lifestyles?

 

Closest neighbour, I suppose. 

[1971fozzy]

22 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Council owned stadiums will be the way forward. 

councils are going bankrupt.

The sheep were obviously hoping for this in some shape but it’s never happening now.  Vital services only are becoming the norm and that won’t include football stadia. Imagine the uproar.

Also could you imagine the mess most of these incumbents would make if it all 🤣

[jr ewing]

7 hours ago, JJ93 said:

Why? 

To continue to exist. 

[jbee647]

23 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Council owned stadiums will be the way forward. 

Have you seen the new Meadowbank ..

if Aberdeen are relying on councillors or politicians, they are better staying at crumbling Pittodrie 

[jbee647]

23 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Council owned stadiums will be the way forward. 

Have you seen the new Meadowbank ..?

if Aberdeen are relying on councillors or politicians, they are better staying at crumbling Pittodrie 

[jbee647]

23 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Council owned stadiums will be the way forward. 

Have you seen the new Meadowbank ..?

if Aberdeen are relying on councillors or politicians, they are better staying at crumbling Pittodrie 

[jbee647]

23 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Council owned stadiums will be the way forward. 

Have you seen the new Meadowbank ..?

if Aberdeen are relying on councillors or politicians, they are better staying at crumbling Pittodrie. 

[ArcticJambo]

I have, I have!

[jr ewing]

Me too,me too.

[westbow]

On 29/11/2023 at 21:53, Vlad Magic said:

The other clubs who haven’t invested in their stadiums are forced to but can’t?

 

By that I mean we have upgraded Tynie with significant investment. There are others literally falling apart. Where will the investment come from when these clubs are forced to upgrade or close?

 

Its a rather sad indictment however looking at the turnover figures from another OP we have a lot of clubs who may be forced to close the doors altogether on health and safety grounds.

 

This is a massive problem that isn’t going away anytime soon.

 

What would happen to us, Rangers, Celtic, Hibs if the league collapsed due to mass stadium closures due to H&S failures?

Funny, I was just reading Pat Nevin's memoirs about being at Motherwell in the nineties. He states:

 

"In the time I had spent at Fir Park I had realised that the club had previously been run frugally on a shoestring but, like a classic old country house, the real running costs were not in the beautiful artworks on show or accrued in buying the property in the first place, but on the mundane running costs and repairs that had been put off, patched up or ignored for decades. The stadium needed huge amounts of expensive work everywhere."

 

I wouldn't like to guess which clubs this holds true for, but there will be some. 

[SM8]

On 30/11/2023 at 16:40, db211833 said:

Haha, brilliant.

Dropping from 65% higher than anyone else to lower than another 3 is massively skewed.

Several??? Have you ever been in Dublin airport on a Friday or Sunday, we are not talking several.

Brush up on your reading comprehension skills please