What a rollercoaster following HMFC

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

Saturday was a long journey home from Paisley feeling let down , woke up Sunday morning still feeling gutted ! Last night was amazing feeling when Lowry scored and woke up this morning still buzzing 

[spirt of 98]

28 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Saturday was a long journey home from Paisley feeling let down , woke up Sunday morning still feeling gutted ! Last night was amazing feeling when Lowry scored and woke up this morning still buzzing 

That’s what following Hearts has always been like. No sure where all the pant wetters have came from expecting us to win stuff. Reality is we are a mid table club who sometimes punches above our weight. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

49 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

That’s what following Hearts has always been like. No sure where all the pant wetters have came from expecting us to win stuff. Reality is we are a mid table club who sometimes punches above our weight. 

Punch above out weight ? That's just not true ! We've got 3rd biggest budget in Scotland 

[iainmac]

Fans not happy about failing to score against Kilmarnock, Dundee, Motherwell & St Mirren despite having greater resources = pant wetting? 

 

I don't think so. 

[DG_HMFC]

1 hour ago, spirt of 98 said:

That’s what following Hearts has always been like. No sure where all the pant wetters have came from expecting us to win stuff. Reality is we are a mid table club who sometimes punches above our weight. 

 

Really? If Hearts are a mid table club (6th is mid table) then who are the 3rd, 4th and 5th placed sides?

[spirt of 98]

20 minutes ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

Really? If Hearts are a mid table club (6th is mid table) then who are the 3rd, 4th and 5th placed sides?

Listen our last 10 SPL finishes provide an average of 6.7 for stop slavering. 
 

Also there is no set teams finishing in 3rd,4th etc as all the teams are inconsistent. Our budget is not significantly higher to the extent we can buy loads of better players. We take chances on untested players at our level that occasional work out. People need to wake up we are no a 3 rd place in the bag club. No one is. OF have the money to guarantee 1st and 2nd.

 

 

[spirt of 98]

53 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Punch above out weight ? That's just not true ! We've got 3rd biggest budget in Scotland 

Not significant but enough to buy tried and tested players that make 3rd automatic. 
 

What I will say is we will get third more often than others but it’s not a given. 

[Robbo-Jambo]

1 hour ago, spirt of 98 said:

That’s what following Hearts has always been like. No sure where all the pant wetters have came from expecting us to win stuff. Reality is we are a mid table club who sometimes punches above our weight. 

Mid table club ?

 

Nonsense.

[spirt of 98]

1 minute ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

Mid table club ?

 

Nonsense.

Stats dont lie 

[Vlad Magic]

People really need to put this “3rd biggest budget” argument to one side.

 

Yes technically we have the 3rd biggest budget. This is factually correct. However it’s not significantly big enough to those with lower budgets to guarantee us 3rd. This is the reality.

 

We are still shopping at the very bottom end of the market like everyone else. We are still taking gambles on players from unfancied leagues like everyone else.

 

Our slight financial advantage means we can look at a slightly larger pool of players. The risks attached and the rewards of uncovering a gem apply the same to us as they do to others.

 

To say we should be 3rd because our budget is 3rd biggest is ill advised and leads to over the top and unrealistic expectations.

[Vlad Magic]

The reality is (and someone said it above) we are a mid table club who occasionally gets 3rd.

 

This is of course only my opinion (and the poster who said the same earlier in the thread).

 

The next step in the process is to increase our turnover to the point where our financial advantage over others DOES start to make 3rd a more regular occurrence. We aren’t there yet.

 

We are though doing the right things. Our turnover has increased year on year significantly. The hotel will bring in much needed revenues. FOH continues to be a success. 
 

This is a long term strategy being implemented by business people. The results will start to bare fruit.

[spirt of 98]

6 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

The reality is (and someone said it above) we are a mid table club who occasionally gets 3rd.

 

This is of course only my opinion (and the poster who said the same earlier in the thread).

 

The next step in the process is to increase our turnover to the point where our financial advantage over others DOES start to make 3rd a more regular occurrence. We aren’t there yet.

 

We are though doing the right things. Our turnover has increased year on year significantly. The hotel will bring in much needed revenues. FOH continues to be a success. 
 

This is a long term strategy being implemented by business people. The results will start to bare fruit.

Correct

[cazzyy]

28 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

Not significant but enough to buy tried and tested players that make 3rd automatic. 
 

What I will say is we will get third more often than others but it’s not a given. 

 

Oops, was about to pick you up on that first sentence but I think, having read your other posts that the word "but" doesn't belong there.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[spirt of 98]

2 minutes ago, cazzyy said:

 

Oops, was about to pick you up on that first sentence but I think, having read your other posts that the word "but" doesn't belong there.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Hahaha yes

 

26 minutes ago, Robbo-Jambo said:

Edited September 27, 2023 by spirt of 98

[Jambo in Bathgate]

15 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

People really need to put this “3rd biggest budget” argument to one side.

 

Yes technically we have the 3rd biggest budget. This is factually correct. However it’s not significantly big enough to those with lower budgets to guarantee us 3rd. This is the reality.

 

We are still shopping at the very bottom end of the market like everyone else. We are still taking gambles on players from unfancied leagues like everyone else.

 

Our slight financial advantage means we can look at a slightly larger pool of players. The risks attached and the rewards of uncovering a gem apply the same to us as they do to others.

 

To say we should be 3rd because our budget is 3rd biggest is ill advised and leads to over the top and unrealistic expectations.

That’s true. There’s no doubt all the trumpeting of us being the third biggest team in Scotland has certainly changed the way teams play against us outside Rangers, Celtic, Hibs and Aberdeen. Last night first half we played some good football and scored. Kilmarnock tried to catch us on the counter. Second half they changed put two up and put pressure on us. We still had chances before they scored. Kingsley hitting woodwork with keeper beaten being one. Both our goals were the result of good passing moves. That’s the way to beat these teams. 

[cazzyy]

2 minutes ago, spirt of 98 said:

Hahaha yes

 

 

😄 👍

[lou]

The roller coaster should be many more ups than downs, we have the 3rd biggest support in the country and with the fans contributions, we should be able to out-buy and out+pay Aberdeen and Hibs comfortably, we need the board to show ambition to break away from the others 

[Chimp]

1 minute ago, lou said:

The roller coaster should be many more ups than downs, we have the 3rd biggest support in the country and with the fans contributions, we should be able to out-buy and out+pay Aberdeen and Hibs comfortably, we need the board to show ambition to break away from the others 

 

Yep 👍

[GinRummy]

9 minutes ago, Vlad Magic said:

The reality is (and someone said it above) we are a mid table club who occasionally gets 3rd.

 

This is of course only my opinion (and the poster who said the same earlier in the thread).

 

The next step in the process is to increase our turnover to the point where our financial advantage over others DOES start to make 3rd a more regular occurrence. We aren’t there yet.

 

We are though doing the right things. Our turnover has increased year on year significantly. The hotel will bring in much needed revenues. FOH continues to be a success. 
 

This is a long term strategy being implemented by business people. The results will start to bare fruit.

The pressure seems to be on managers/head coaches to finish higher than mid table now. I think a 6th place finish would see any manager sacked. So regardless of being a mid table side in the past I don't think the board see that as acceptable now. 

 

Just an opinion obviously.

[innerjambo]

Really enjoyed last night, need more of the same please 🙏 

[Americana]

So much settling for mediocrity on this board its unbelievable.

 

Hearts should be finishing third, in fact anytime Hearts play home or away against any other team than the OF I am disappointed if its not a win. The opinion of we should be grateful for what we have seems to settle with the mature generation, whereas ahead of that we have been raised on European nights, cup finals and memorable players. Last season was our best opportunity to push on and make 3rd a minimum requirement for wearing maroon, the implications for our finances from getting that spot every season would ensure progression and settling for anything less is just embracing mediocrity.

 

Scoring a last minute winner , in the wee cup, against a weaker side albeit it at a difficult ground to take a win from isn't enough to change my opinion on the management of the club at this point in time, however I do hope its enough to start seeing some belief in the squad, who are at large a group of talented individual players.

 

 

[TheBigO]

1 hour ago, spirt of 98 said:

Listen our last 10 SPL finishes provide an average of 6.7 for stop slavering. 
 

Also there is no set teams finishing in 3rd,4th etc as all the teams are inconsistent. Our budget is not significantly higher to the extent we can buy loads of better players. We take chances on untested players at our level that occasional work out. People need to wake up we are no a 3 rd place in the bag club. No one is. OF have the money to guarantee 1st and 2nd.

 

 

Can you go check the overall stats for Scottish football and come back please.

 

Fans aren't happy because 6.7 is below where we should be in any 10 year period.  There's been a buildup of frustration from a few years of underachievement.

 

No team in Scotland outwith the OF has ever had a stranglehold on 3rd, being there every season for a number of years.  Aberdeen but only when Rangers, Hearts, Hibs all went down.  But we are the team who have done it most.  And outwith a brief period in Aberdeen's history, we're the team over the course of history who have been closest to the OF.

 

We have the 3rd biggest support, we have extra income from FOH, we have a lot going for us.

 

I don't like how folk demand stuff and I hate all the pant wetting, but the fact is it is borne from us actually being the team who SHOULD be doing more on the pitch in Scottish football.  We see lots of amazing things happen at our club, but for a good few years, very little of it has translated to the football pitch and it's frustrating.

[EIEIO]

1 hour ago, iainmac said:

Fans not happy about failing to score against Kilmarnock, Dundee, Motherwell & St Mirren despite having greater resources = pant wetting? 

 

I don't think so. 

This 100 percent.

[innerjambo]

1 hour ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

Really? If Hearts are a mid table club (6th is mid table) then who are the 3rd, 4th and 5th placed sides?

 

Something really smells about that comment 🤔 

[innerjambo]

For a club of our size, finishing mid table is unacceptable, and majorly underachieving. And yes, our stats aren't great reading. We really should be doing much much better. 

[EIEIO]

The difference between now and the previous regimes in the boardroom is that we have financial stability and strength due to Ann Budge and co. Great.

Unfortunately, when it comes to the football side we are tinpot and just appoint someone "we" know who's already at the club (eg Levein and Naismith) or connected to someone at the club (eg Cathro). Liam Fox would probably be there next choice if/when Naismith fails.

The frustration/ "pant wetting" is ramped up by repeatedly not appointing an experienced manager.

Great result last night and 2 good goals to brighten a rainy night in Ayrshire (even though we lost the same soft headed goal we've been conceding every other game for 2 years now).

Edited September 27, 2023 by EIEIO
SPELLING

[Carter]

3 hours ago, spirt of 98 said:

That’s what following Hearts has always been like. No sure where all the pant wetters have came from expecting us to win stuff. Reality is we are a mid table club who sometimes punches above our weight. 

[Sinbad the Sailor]

1 hour ago, Vlad Magic said:

People really need to put this “3rd biggest budget” argument to one side.

 

Yes technically we have the 3rd biggest budget. This is factually correct. However it’s not significantly big enough to those with lower budgets to guarantee us 3rd. This is the reality.

 

We are still shopping at the very bottom end of the market like everyone else. We are still taking gambles on players from unfancied leagues like everyone else.

 

Our slight financial advantage means we can look at a slightly larger pool of players. The risks attached and the rewards of uncovering a gem apply the same to us as they do to others.

 

To say we should be 3rd because our budget is 3rd biggest is ill advised and leads to over the top and unrealistic expectations.

Exactly. Chelsea have a huge budget and they are rank rotten.

[the posh bit]

1 hour ago, Vlad Magic said:

People really need to put this “3rd biggest budget” argument to one side.

 

Yes technically we have the 3rd biggest budget. This is factually correct. However it’s not significantly big enough to those with lower budgets to guarantee us 3rd. This is the reality.

 

We are still shopping at the very bottom end of the market like everyone else. We are still taking gambles on players from unfancied leagues like everyone else.

 

Our slight financial advantage means we can look at a slightly larger pool of players. The risks attached and the rewards of uncovering a gem apply the same to us as they do to others.

 

To say we should be 3rd because our budget is 3rd biggest is ill advised and leads to over the top and unrealistic expectations.

 

100%

[Harry Potter]

3 hours ago, spirt of 98 said:

That’s what following Hearts has always been like. No sure where all the pant wetters have came from expecting us to win stuff. Reality is we are a mid table club who sometimes punches above our weight. 

3rd biggest in scotland, mid table, u having a laugh,

[Sid]

Two points : - 

1.  Are we third biggest, therefore devine right to third place every year?  
We were bust a few years ago. ie debt we couldn’t service and income below expenditure.  Over the last number of years, debt has been repaid and income dramatically increased. This is due to a combination of Ann Budge being the only person to prevent our death, FOH contributions and “Benefactor” support (not just James Anderson). Think last year Hibs and Aberdeen had more income due to player sales. So we are heading in the right direction. But not clearly there yet. So third/fourth not unreasonable at this stage. 
2.  Should we sack the Board and FOH take over?  It’s the opposite of the “Football Department” debate.  We clearly need to focus on the results. However, we need the cash to secure the right manager and afford the players or we have no chance of maintaining third.  Therefore, we need a strong financial foundation. Recon these boys with their pitchforks will generate £20m pa for us?  For one, Benefactors will not stay. Also, do we set up a default to sack the manager if we lose to a team below our financial standing?  That’s what some appear to want. Careful what we wish for. 
We are a fair way along a project to get us to the third consistently we all want. But we are not there yet. There have been massive bumps in the road, with more to come.  We shouldn’t rip it all up every time we hit a bump. You can’t change manager every handful of games. We have shown (clearly not consistently enough) glimpses of an attacking, exciting team. We just need to increase that side and reduce the boring, slow, backwards play which, for some reason keeps creeping back into our game. That is not a direction coming from Naismith. All interviews say the opposite and you can see his frustration during games when this creeps in. 

WE ARE ON OUR WAY TO HAMPDEN. BE HAPPY!!! 

[BRY]

17 minutes ago, Sid said:

....

 

WE ARE ON OUR WAY TO HAMPDEN. BE HAPPY!!! 

 

 

Not a slight on you particularly, just highlighting what you said at the end, as others (and reporters) have said similar.

 

Why is this seen as such a big deal??

Yes, "we're going to Hampden" but it's for a semi-final which will mean absolutely nothing if we lose...

 

This gives the impression that "getting to Hampden" is the be-all and end-all.

We should be getting excited if we get to Hampden for the cup finals, not just semi-finals..

 

Edited September 27, 2023 by BRY

[jamboinglasgow]

2 hours ago, Vlad Magic said:

People really need to put this “3rd biggest budget” argument to one side.

 

Yes technically we have the 3rd biggest budget. This is factually correct. However it’s not significantly big enough to those with lower budgets to guarantee us 3rd. This is the reality.

 

We are still shopping at the very bottom end of the market like everyone else. We are still taking gambles on players from unfancied leagues like everyone else.

 

Our slight financial advantage means we can look at a slightly larger pool of players. The risks attached and the rewards of uncovering a gem apply the same to us as they do to others.

 

To say we should be 3rd because our budget is 3rd biggest is ill advised and leads to over the top and unrealistic expectations.

 

Completely agree with this. 

 

We should be pushing to be always third, and our budget is around 3rd biggest (still think Aberdeen have pushed their budget out this season.) But the league is built on lower teams having managers who specialise in being defensive as possible. They get a goal and sit in. (I think its a problem for Scottish football where we are not getting managers through playing an attacking style in the Premiership but I think that is down to the make up of the league rather than individual clubs.)

 

Unless teams are completely useless (like St Johnstone) or are of a similar size to us so need to play more open (like Aberdeen and Hibs) every team who is going to play against us is going to sit deep and knows how to frustrate us. These teams play like that against the Old Firm too, the difficulty we have is the Old Firm can afford to have a few players who can create a goal from nothing, we dont. You get one or if your lucky two, but that means the opposition will then look to mark them out of the game.

 

That doesn't mean we cant do better and we need to have a way to break down these teams (getting the first goal is always crucial as it means they have to open up.) But too many seem to think that Hearts should just turn up and win because we have more money. Its the difference between arrogance and confidence, confidence is that we can win if we work hard and play the way we are supposed, arrogance is that we will win just because we are playing.

[leipzig76]

3 hours ago, DG_HMFC said:

 

Really? If Hearts are a mid table club (6th is mid table) then who are the 3rd, 4th and 5th placed sides?

Certainly not the club spirit of 98 supports

[jamboozy]

3 hours ago, iainmac said:

Fans not happy about failing to score against Kilmarnock, Dundee, Motherwell & St Mirren despite having greater resources = pant wetting? 

 

I don't think so. 

Correct, but we should be happy with 5th place and see it as a success , coz we’re only a mid-table club.
             Is that what Hearts fans are wanting for their club? = No and it never will be, the only reason that lapsed fans and new fans are coming to Tynecastle is that they can see something special finally coming to our club, some are impatient, sure, but we all crave that success to finally come and be up there with the bigger clubs.

[NaturalOrder74]

3 hours ago, spirt of 98 said:

Stats dont lie 

Why are we third on the all time scottish league points table then ? 

[spirt of 98]

Just now, NaturalOrder74 said:

Why are we third on the all time scottish league points table then ? 

I just looked at the last ten years Neebs. Not sure what we did in 1900 is relevant. 

[spirt of 98]

11 minutes ago, leipzig76 said:

Certainly not the club spirit of 98 supports

Childish pish patter. 

[NaturalOrder74]

1 minute ago, spirt of 98 said:

I just looked at the last ten years Neebs. Not sure what we did in 1900 is relevant. 

Stats don’t lie mate 

[Dunks]

4 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Punch above out weight ? That's just not true ! We've got 3rd biggest budget in Scotland 

 

You sure? Aberdeen and Hibs spending a lot more.

[spirt of 98]

2 hours ago, TheBigO said:

Can you go check the overall stats for Scottish football and come back please.

 

Fans aren't happy because 6.7 is below where we should be in any 10 year period.  There's been a buildup of frustration from a few years of underachievement.

 

No team in Scotland outwith the OF has ever had a stranglehold on 3rd, being there every season for a number of years.  Aberdeen but only when Rangers, Hearts, Hibs all went down.  But we are the team who have done it most.  And outwith a brief period in Aberdeen's history, we're the team over the course of history who have been closest to the OF.

 

We have the 3rd biggest support, we have extra income from FOH, we have a lot going for us.

 

I don't like how folk demand stuff and I hate all the pant wetting, but the fact is it is borne from us actually being the team who SHOULD be doing more on the pitch in Scottish football.  We see lots of amazing things happen at our club, but for a good few years, very little of it has translated to the football pitch and it's frustrating.

I agree we have third best points over the history of the top league. However we are talking about recent history.

 

Ive attended Hearts games for 36 years and we are the best of the rest however this is not guaranteed due to having third biggest budget as the difference in budgets is minute and does not allow us to buy finished articles. 
 

No sure thing by folk are having ago. It appears that there are loads of new entitled Hearts fans who believe the hype that we should be third every year. It would be nice but the facts for not support this. 
 

Please prove me wrong with facts and refrain from suggesting I am a Hobo just because my common sense facts based argument does not agree with your simpleton warped vision of Hearts superiority cause you are talking Colin Nish. 

[spirt of 98]

13 minutes ago, jamboozy said:

Correct, but we should be happy with 5th place and see it as a success , coz we’re only a mid-table club.
             Is that what Hearts fans are wanting for their club? = No and it never will be, the only reason that lapsed fans and new fans are coming to Tynecastle is that they can see something special finally coming to our club, some are impatient, sure, but we all crave that success to finally come and be up there with the bigger clubs.

No we should not settle for 5th we should aim for 2nd and if it doesn’t workout and we have an average season we shouldnt be calling for the manager to be sacked and spray painting peoples houses. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by spirt of 98

[Marvin]

5 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Saturday was a long journey home from Paisley feeling let down , woke up Sunday morning still feeling gutted ! Last night was amazing feeling when Lowry scored and woke up this morning still buzzing 

 

Rollercoaster is the perfect way to describe it. Always has been. I won't have it any other way.

[Sid]

39 minutes ago, BRY said:

 

 

Not a slight on you particularly, just highlighting what you said at the end, as others (and reporters) have said similar.

 

Why is this seen as such a big deal??

Yes, "we're going to Hampden" but it's for a semi-final which will mean absolutely nothing if we lose...

 

This gives the impression that "getting to Hampden" is the be-all and end-all.

We should be getting excited if we get to Hampden for the cup finals, not just semi-finals..

 

Maybe not for you, but for me, seeing my team at Hampden gets me excited. I did not say it’s the be all and end all. Finals, cups and third are better not the be all and end all either. 

[Dr Ian Malcolm]

46 minutes ago, BRY said:

 

 

Not a slight on you particularly, just highlighting what you said at the end, as others (and reporters) have said similar.

 

Why is this seen as such a big deal??

Yes, "we're going to Hampden" but it's for a semi-final which will mean absolutely nothing if we lose...

 

This gives the impression that "getting to Hampden" is the be-all and end-all.

We should be getting excited if we get to Hampden for the cup finals, not just semi-finals..

 

Hard to disagree with this.

 

We don’t get to Hampden as often as we should (especially in this competition). Whisper it, but Neilson’s second spell (carrying on from Levein) was a bit more like it in that regard.

 

But seeing it as a day out (it’s not even a good one, Hampden is a hole with nothing nearby that makes it an occasion) and just being happy to be there is a bit small time. You go there to win otherwise what’s the point? We were getting closer but it’s been a while now.

[jamboozy]

Just now, spirt of 98 said:

No we should not settle for 5th we should aim for 2nd and if it doesn’t workout and we have an average season we should be calling for the manager to be sacked and spray painting peoples houses. 

Glad you think we should be aiming higher than mid table, and to make it clear, I have at no point condoned spray painting peoples homes, and haven’t called for the manager to be sacked either.

       I have been at Tynecastle when you could quite easily count the number of fans during the boring passages of play, Now, we are at a position where we could really kick on and be the club we all want us to be and see it come to fruition, that is if the fans that are happy with mid table mediocrity are ok with that of course.👍

[chrisyboy7]

3 hours ago, spirt of 98 said:

Stats dont lie 

If your going back through the decades your right but we are currently the 3rd biggest club so should be 3rd and no worce than fourth over 38 games

[GBJambo]

5 hours ago, spirt of 98 said:

That’s what following Hearts has always been like. No sure where all the pant wetters have came from expecting us to win stuff. Reality is we are a mid table club who sometimes punches above our weight. 

Nonsense . We are much higher than a mid table table . 
 

The pant wetters as you put it just know that we can and should be doing so much better with the squad and resources we have 

[Kirky Jambo]

I think it’s good to have ambition and high expectations.

 

I can’t agree we occasionally “punch above our weight”. I get the point that poster is making, but it’s the wrong phrase/way of looking at it imo. It would be fairer to say we can’t expect to finish third every single season because our budget and infrastructure isn’t vastly better than those around us.

 

I think those running the club need to throw in a bit of realism and context and consideration of the long term plan, but should equally be looking on anything below third being a little disappointing, and below 5th as a serious failure unless material mitigating circumstances.

[Lone Striker]

3 hours ago, lou said:

The roller coaster should be many more ups than downs, we have the 3rd biggest support in the country and with the fans contributions, we should be able to out-buy and out+pay Aberdeen and Hibs comfortably, we need the board to show ambition to break away from the others 

You would think so - but as Vlads Magic has said, the likes of Aberdeen and Hibs budgets are only 20%(ish) less than ours.  The effect of that gap is easily mitigated if they employ a better manager/coach  than us, or sign  a couple of  class players.