*** Kilmarnock v Heart of Midlothian - match day thread ***

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

2 hours ago, TexasAndy said:

This in spades.

In buckets surely ☔️

[JimmyCant]

I liked a lot of things about us last night. First our attitude improved quite a bit. From early on we looked like we were down there to win. The midfield had a bit more creativity about it with Grant in particular having a good game. Shankland looked interested again and the two goals we scored were excellent pieces of skill. On that pitch and in that weather it was a decent performance.

 

Hopefully it’s the first step to recovery and consistency. We’ll see at the weekend I suppose.

[Sinbad the Sailor]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I liked a lot of things about us last night. First our attitude improved quite a bit. From early on we looked like we were down there to win. The midfield had a bit more creativity about it with Grant in particular having a good game. Shankland looked interested again and the two goals we scored were excellent pieces of skill. On that pitch and in that weather it was a decent performance.

 

Hopefully it’s the first step to recovery and consistency. We’ll see at the weekend I suppose.

Spot on Jimmy

[EIEIO]

Better display throughout the team. Hopefully, Cammy will be available soon though he was excellent in the first half.

[SectionDJambo]

6 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I liked a lot of things about us last night. First our attitude improved quite a bit. From early on we looked like we were down there to win. The midfield had a bit more creativity about it with Grant in particular having a good game. Shankland looked interested again and the two goals we scored were excellent pieces of skill. On that pitch and in that weather it was a decent performance.

 

Hopefully it’s the first step to recovery and consistency. We’ll see at the weekend I suppose.

That’s the way I saw it from watching in the pub. The players looked more determined and the 2 goals were beauties.

That said, disappointing to lose another goal from a simple cross into the goal area. We have to defend those better.

Hopefully the confidence is up going into Saturday and beyond.

[Sinbad the Sailor]

26 minutes ago, Sinbad the Sailor said:

A reminder: Gordon Atkinson Halkett McKay Cochrane Tagawa and Pollock injured. Cammy subbed due to injury. Boyce and Beni still not 100%

 

Your glass needs topped up to half full mate.

Oda too

[JimmyCant]

6 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

That’s the way I saw it from watching in the pub. The players looked more determined and the 2 goals were beauties.

That said, disappointing to lose another goal from a simple cross into the goal area. We have to defend those better.

Hopefully the confidence is up going into Saturday and beyond.

Damage is done by standing off and allowing so many crosses as well. Not much you can do if it’s a set piece but that was an open play cross and Sibbick should be closing it down quicker and more determinedly. And oh for a keeper that could come and get a few of them. I didn’t think Sibbick was great at RB or CB last night so that position needs looked at.

Edited September 27, 2023 by JimmyCant

[N Lincs Jambo]

12 hours ago, Morgan said:

Hearts v St McGarvey

 

Rangers v Aberdeen

 

👍

 

 

Been thinking about this a bit. Would prefer Hearts v Sheep in the semi with Huns v Vermin in the other one. The Hibs actually have a very good cup record against Rangers including in Glasgow but always come unstuck there against us. Would love another Hampden derby humiliation preferably in the final. 

[AndyMcI]

1 hour ago, May one-six said:

For a wee change, I think we got better after they equalised. Normally, our heads would go down in those circumstances, but I think we showed some unusual determination. 

I think this coincided with the change of formation. We looked much more solid. The wing backs also gave us out balls with less pressure.

[Portable Badger]

1 hour ago, Gundermann said:

 

👍

 

Yes. Not perfect - Sibbick weak, Vargas not at it, Haring didn't replace Devlin well enough - but a difficult away tie against a bogey team on an awful pitch on an awful night.

 

Two games away from some long-awaited silverware, if we get our act together.

Not having a dig at you at all Gunderman but using as illustration - as Derek McInnes, in his post-match radio interview, singled out Vargas as being our biggest threat to Killie and specifically why they changed their formation at half-time.  Funny how we all see things differently even when we're watching the same game.

[busbyfth]

All about feet - eg Grants manouvering/adusting his feet/stride when taking his classily worked goal...he did well. ANd - Lowery - simply put his drag back before putting the ball away was sharply done. Kudos to both on a diabolical night, with the game played on a joke pitch which should be dud up - its the 21st century FF5 !!! (why does the SPFL allow a playing surface like that one and Livvys ?)

[busbyfth]

10 minutes ago, AndyMcI said:

I think this coincided with the change of formation. We looked much more solid. The wing backs also gave us out balls with less pressure.

Agreed - but look at the last few years - we very often get outplayed in the first half of games (irrespective of the score) but improve performance after the break when getting a chance to adjust formation and game plan......why does this happen so often ? curious.

[gregzy2k7]

Well I'm extremely surprised and happy that we have managed to win a game away from home, especially at Killie and get to a semi final, however I'm not getting carried away, they need to follow this up with another win up in dingwall or for me nothing has changed, This management team have got a long way to go before I see them as anything other than novices and out of their depth, still think we need changes but happy we are through none the less.

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, busbyfth said:

All about feet - eg Grants manouvering/adusting his feet/stride when taking his classily worked goal...he did well. ANd - Lowery - simply put his drag back before putting the ball away was sharply done. Kudos to both on a diabolical night, with the game played on a joke pitch which should be dud up - its the 21st century FF5 !!! (why does the SPFL allow a playing surface like that one and Livvys ?)

It’s one of those issues where there’s plenty talking but not much listening. Those pitches (Killie and Livvy) are not safe and it’s probably going to take a serious OF injury before anything’s done about it

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, Captain Sausage said:

It must be nice living in a world of absolutes with absolutely no room for nuance. 
 

We won, I’m delighted we are going to Hampden. But it’s not difficult for anyone with the capacity for critical thought to identify clear problems that our management team continue to do nothing about. 
 

The winning goal was a speculative punt up the park with the ball breaking kindly. Had Killie got the slice of luck, there would be protests at Tynecastle. We had a banner at the game calling the board clowns. 
 

I want nothing more than us to kick on and start winning games, but I just can’t see past the continuing tactical mistakes we are making. 
 

We all want the same thing - a successful Hearts team. But I’m absolutely convinced Naismith and his band of merry men are not the answer - and it’ll take more than a single close fought win over Killie to change my mind. 

 

If Amoruso had defended better and the ref been a normal old firm one Rangers win the Cup in 1998 and Jefferies is another failure criticised for his negative tactics.

Edited September 27, 2023 by Mikey1874

[The White Cockade]

Do we have any idea how bad Devlin's injury is?

or Oda's

or Mckay's

or Cochrane's

or Tagawa's

or Pollock's

These injuries are killing us right now and drastically reduce our options

[RustyRightPeg]

10 minutes ago, The White Cockade said:

Do we have any idea how bad Devlin's injury is?

or Oda's

or Mckay's

or Cochrane's

or Tagawa's

or Pollock's

These injuries are killing us right now and drastically reduce our options

Devlin was a head knock. Given he was bandaged up on Saturday for another one it was probably precautionary. He was walking around with the team at full time.

[RustyRightPeg]

Rewatching Lowry’s goal (again) and thinking the only thing that could’ve made it even better would be him slipping Beni in who’d just arrived unmarked on the penalty spot and he scored the winner. Imagine those scenes. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Rewatching Lowry’s goal (again) and thinking the only thing that could’ve made it even better would be him slipping Beni in who’d just arrived unmarked on the penalty spot and he scored the winner. Imagine those scenes. 

Beni would have had to slide tackle the ball in, his MO 😉

[boag1874]

RE that monstrosity of a pitch; It really needs to be a requirement that teams look after these surfaces properly if they're going to install them. Letting the pitch dry out to make it harder to play passing football on & gain an advantage is so tinpot.

 

This isn't even really a dig at Killie, they're acting within the rules by letting it get into that nick but the governing bodies need to look at the rulebook, stuff like this holds the game back.

Edited September 27, 2023 by boag1874

[Opinionated Jambo]

Regardless of the performance to get a win away especially at Kilmarnock who many thought would have been a big ask it should be a massive confidence boost ahead of the weekend. Hopefully this isn't a step forward then come the weekend two steps back. 

[Chimp]

24 minutes ago, The White Cockade said:

Do we have any idea how bad Devlin's injury is?

or Oda's

or Mckay's

or Cochrane's

or Tagawa's

or Pollock's

These injuries are killing us right now and drastically reduce our options

 

Oda - matter of weeks (small knock)

McKay - around 2 months

Cochrane - around 2 months

Tagawa - in the next week or so

Pollock - no idea

 

 

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Sub4TiddlerMurray said:

I think Hamilton with their plastic pitch was in the SPFL at that time. 

Don’t think they were 🤔

[Thomaso]

18 minutes ago, boag1874 said:

RE that monstrosity of a pitch; It really needs to be a requirement that teams look after these surfaces properly if they're going to install them. Letting the pitch dry out to make it harder to play passing football on & gain an advantage is so tinpot.

 

This isn't even really a dig at Killie, they're acting within the rules by letting it get into that nick but the governing bodies need to look at the rulebook, stuff like this holds the game back.

Frankly it’s a dangerous surface!

[upgotheheads]

2 hours ago, May one-six said:

For a wee change, I think we got better after they equalised. Normally, our heads would go down in those circumstances, but I think we showed some unusual determination. 

 

That might be the most important thing about last night. Also the fact that we started quickly and didn't ***** about with the ball at the back. It looked to me that Clark had been told to go long whenever possible and get the ball into their half.

2 hours ago, Chimp said:

 

All I want to do is moan? Well that's a load of pish, have a look at my other posts and you'll find I've not moaned about a single thing from last night, nothing but praise. 

 

You're clearly still one of those blinded with that love in for Haring who won't let go. Tbh there's still a good few in the same boat and don't think that will ever change their view no matter how crap he is.

 

"Well done Pete" - he was mince, stop kidding and lying to yersel 😂

 

As opposed to those who have hated Haring from the start and won't let go.

[August Landmesser]

2 hours ago, TheBigO said:

Correct.  And you know what we did?  We got it up there, with Shanks, Boyce and Lowry all round the ball to make things happen once one of our CFs, who are both strong, got good touches and good vision, got the ball in and they played off eachother!!!!!  Christ on a bike!  Who'd have thought.

 

Was very very happy to see us hitting the forwards and even the corners way fast last night.  It's what we're set up to do, not passive passing.  We have a midfield, all of whom I like, but they're guys who are best-in-class at winning scraps and transitions.  Properly great at it.  But we build slow!!  Create the transitions!!!!  Hit the forwards, the aim is for them to do as we did for that 3rd goal.  But if they don't get the ball under, then the defender is forced into a challenge, a loose header we can pick up and THEN we can build from there.  Shit, we might even just get a throw in but it's a throw-in 30 yards from goal.

 

It also brings the benefit of the opposition not knowing what we'll do.  We know we have players who CAN then drop the pace and keep the ball when we feel we need to.  But if we show we're willing to mix our play up, we very quickly become a much harder team to deal with.  We've been so predictable

 

Its not ugly, it's not 80s.  It's our clearest path to being aggressive and effective and actually its a much better "brand" of football to watch.  Been asking for it for about 5 years now it feels, but especially since Naisy took over it just seems to make sense.

great summary - hopefully the fact that we've won a game playing this aggressive front foot style (in parts) gives the players the belief that they can get more results playing like this. I'm still leaning more towards prioritising results over performances just now, until we get ourselves on a bit of a run (Rossco & Hibs seems like a good opportunity for that), but if we can keep increasing our tempo, workrate and all-round pest levels, we could be onto a good thing

[Chimp]

4 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

 

As opposed to those who have hated Haring from the start and won't let go.

 

Are you aiming this at me? Because if you are you'll find I have said countless times I used to love him as a player and thought he was brilliant for us when he first came to the club. That first season he was everywhere, breaking play up, winning aerial battles and chipping in with goals. Tbh even now I like him as a guy, just can see that he's finished and not that player anymore.

If you are directing that at me I'm sorry to say you're miles off it 👍

[TheBigO]

16 minutes ago, August Landmesser said:

great summary - hopefully the fact that we've won a game playing this aggressive front foot style (in parts) gives the players the belief that they can get more results playing like this. I'm still leaning more towards prioritising results over performances just now, until we get ourselves on a bit of a run (Rossco & Hibs seems like a good opportunity for that), but if we can keep increasing our tempo, workrate and all-round pest levels, we could be onto a good thing

100%.  My only concern was the more direct game was playing the conditions rather than a new approach.  It's definitely our way forward.  Just more smashmouth - get down the other team's throat.

[chrystaf]

21 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

Are you aiming this at me? Because if you are you'll find I have said countless times I used to love him as a player and thought he was brilliant for us when he first came to the club. That first season he was everywhere, breaking play up, winning aerial battles and chipping in with goals. Tbh even now I like him as a guy, just can see that he's finished and not that player anymore.

If you are directing that at me I'm sorry to say you're miles off it 👍

Love the guy, but it's clear that he has lost a lot of pace and speed of movement. When we - and he -are going forward he's ok, but defensibly he's off it and as witness over that last few games, he is late in the tackle, resulting in conceding free kicks and inevitably cards.

[Chimp]

2 minutes ago, chrystaf said:

Love the guy, but it's clear that he has lost a lot of pace and speed of movement. When we - and he -are going forward he's ok, but defensibly he's off it and as witness over that last few games, he is late in the tackle, resulting in conceding free kicks and inevitably cards.

 

Spot on.

[upgotheheads]

25 minutes ago, Chimp said:

 

Are you aiming this at me? Because if you are you'll find I have said countless times I used to love him as a player and thought he was brilliant for us when he first came to the club. That first season he was everywhere, breaking play up, winning aerial battles and chipping in with goals. Tbh even now I like him as a guy, just can see that he's finished and not that player anymore.

If you are directing that at me I'm sorry to say you're miles off it 👍

 

Given that I was quoting you that's a fair assumption. I don't follow your posts closely so I have no idea what your opinion of Haring used to be, but I do know from the day he came here there were people very quick to jump on his back.  Haring is now number three for that defensive midfield position behind Cammy and Beni (I don't consider Nieuwenhof a defensive midfielder) but he's still a good player for the way he reads the game and his general game intelligence, and even if he's not back to his best yet he's still a very decent player.

[boag1874]

40 minutes ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Given that I was quoting you that's a fair assumption. I don't follow your posts closely so I have no idea what your opinion of Haring used to be, but I do know from the day he came here there were people very quick to jump on his back.  Haring is now number three for that defensive midfield position behind Cammy and Beni (I don't consider Nieuwenhof a defensive midfielder) but he's still a good player for the way he reads the game and his general game intelligence, and even if he's not back to his best yet he's still a very decent player.

That sums up my feelings on Haring too, he's only played so much to cover injuries, had a few good games & a few poor ones this season but we could certainly have worse to turn to when we're in the shitter.

[Gundermann]

2 hours ago, Portable Badger said:

Not having a dig at you at all Gunderman but using as illustration - as Derek McInnes, in his post-match radio interview, singled out Vargas as being our biggest threat to Killie and specifically why they changed their formation at half-time.  Funny how we all see things differently even when we're watching the same game.

 

Interesting. I like Vargas but he appeared, to me, to be off the boil last night. Strange he didn't mention Grant.

[jr ewing]

Great squad player to have. Don't know about Sibbick though 🤔 

.

[jr ewing]

3 in the middle of the park is the way forward. Home and away. 

[Chimp]

1 hour ago, upgotheheads said:

 

Given that I was quoting you that's a fair assumption. I don't follow your posts closely so I have no idea what your opinion of Haring used to be, but I do know from the day he came here there were people very quick to jump on his back.  Haring is now number three for that defensive midfield position behind Cammy and Beni (I don't consider Nieuwenhof a defensive midfielder) but he's still a good player for the way he reads the game and his general game intelligence, and even if he's not back to his best yet he's still a very decent player.

 

Well I'd suggest you don't just assume and jump the gun next time, your post was completely wrong. Thinking because someone doesn't rate Haring now means they have always thought that way is bit naïve. 

 

You say reads the game, even if that were true he fouls more than he wins the ball which is absolutely no use. Also reckon around 90% of his passes are safe backwards or sideways, watch him closely and you'll notice this.  Very decent player is being generous - player well past his best, too slow on and off the ball and and not good enough anymore is more fitting in my book. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Chimp

[No Idle Talk]

Is it just me or does the sun shine a little brighter the day after a Hearts away win? 

 

Let's double up on Saturday. 😁

[TexasAndy]

47 minutes ago, No Idle Talk said:

Is it just me or does the sun shine a little brighter the day after a Hearts away win? 

 

Let's double up on Saturday. 😁

I was thinking that earlier that I seem to have an extra spring in my step.  Winning defo helps!

[sac]

4 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

That’s the way I saw it from watching in the pub. The players looked more determined and the 2 goals were beauties.

That said, disappointing to lose another goal from a simple cross into the goal area. We have to defend those better.

Hopefully the confidence is up going into Saturday and beyond.

The boys cross hits off Toby’s foot which pops it up and over the front players

[Ricardo Quaresma]

5 hours ago, Sinbad the Sailor said:

A reminder: Gordon Atkinson Halkett McKay Cochrane Tagawa and Pollock injured. Cammy subbed due to injury. Boyce and Beni still not 100%

 

Your glass needs topped up to half full mate.

 

You missed out Oda and maybe the fact that we got our new players in too late in the window, mostly 👍

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

6 hours ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

I thought Grant had his best game for us yet last night, he took his goal superbly as well, the Hoff was superb and I think we've got a good one here once he settles in properly, and Vargas runs all day long, he's a trier for sure! 

 

Rowles gives me the fear but he had a couple of great runs which could become a trademark for him, and I thought the Hoff linked up will with Forrest, there's hope! 

 

It was a proper 50/50 cup tie, and credit to both sides for serving up a decent contest in those conditions, but there was only one team trying to play football, and that was us! 

I like Grant as a player but he has played far better for us. He had acres of specs to take a shot first half just outside the box and played it wide left of the box. Also had the clear chance to shoot second half and didn’t. 
 

But generally speaking there was a better balance in midfield to front - even though we (rightly) bypassed the midfield more last night as percentage plays.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

5 hours ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Pace up top, wether on form or not, is a great defensive weapon that help peg teams further back and committing forward.

 

Totally saw the face of McInnes in the 1st half, he knew they were losing the battle and imminently going to concede

 

Think we changed it up a little too late, but better late than never; the Devlin situation may have complicated things

 

Very good win, though, F'n hate killie

[Busman2]

Don’t know if this has been mentioned the killie twitter last night said this about Lowry’s goal, Goal for hearts Alex Lowery bundles the ball home in injury time. They must score some fantastic goals at rugby park if that was bundled in .

[Ronald Villiers]

19 hours ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

And play something thro the middle quickly instead of slowly trying to move it wide.

Yes mate.  Even Rowles and Hoff made a difference by driving into space with the ball in the middle of the park.  

[Logic1874]

8 hours ago, cazzyy said:

 

I hope they're not including me in that number.

 

"More than 1,500 travelling fans staged a brief protest prior to kick-off with a sign which read: “Funded by fans, ran by clowns. We deserve better.”

I was at last night's game with my son , we were in second back row of Hearts fans , we didn't even see that flag so that comment is unfair,  as a lot of Hearts fans also wouldn't have seen that flag nor agreed with it ,

[Watt-Zeefuik]

9 hours ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

I didn't think Vargas had much impact either. But then listening to McInnnes afterwards, he said that the movement of our front four caused them problems in the first half and singled out Vargas' pace as having them spooked. Which he said was part of the reason that Killie changed formation. Goes to show that sometimes we won't be able to see the disruptive impact that players are having on the opposition.

 

Thanks for sharing that, that's really interesting. I did think Vargas got mostly shut down but if he dragged them all out of position that's still good work.

 

4 hours ago, chrystaf said:

Love the guy, but it's clear that he has lost a lot of pace and speed of movement. When we - and he -are going forward he's ok, but defensibly he's off it and as witness over that last few games, he is late in the tackle, resulting in conceding free kicks and inevitably cards.

 

Yeah when Pete is running up field and the ball goes the other way, his man is 15 yards past him by the time he gets turned and starts running. Looks like me out there trying to turn around and that's no compliment.

 

He either needs to be parked at the base of the midfield and told not to advance too much or played with a very good defensive midfielder (like Dev) as well as good defending wide players or else he's a constant hole in the defence waiting to happen.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

2 hours ago, sac said:

The boys cross hits off Toby’s foot which pops it up and over the front players

 

It did change the path of the ball, yes, but what was Shankland highlighting to the ref?

 

Did their scorer clamber over our 2 defenders to get onto the ball? It would explain the lack of jumping from them if he put his weight on them and held them down, which is surely a foul

 

Still won though

[Ricardo Quaresma]

1 hour ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

I like Grant as a player but he has played far better for us. He had acres of specs to take a shot first half just outside the box and played it wide left of the box. Also had the clear chance to shoot second half and didn’t. 
 

But generally speaking there was a better balance in midfield to front - even though we (rightly) bypassed the midfield more last night as percentage plays.

 

Well, see, THD, that's much better, actual proper discussion, eh? LOL

[tcjambo]

13 hours ago, cosanostra said:

Sibbick shouldn't be asked to play right back again. He's just not got it. Centre half or midfield if we're desperate. Never right back though.

He's a good CB. Better than Rowles but I agree about him as RB or midfield.

[HMFC 86]

After Lowry’s piece of skill, it’s amusing to see Stuart Findlay punching the plastic surface