***Heart Of Midlothian Vs Rosenborg*** OFFICIAL MATCH THREAD

[Daveandal]

2 hours ago, Taffin said:

 

He could really do with some media training...or surely we could have found someone who's got both that and an A Licence to be the pretendy manager?

 

I'm completely fine with the management structure so I'm not a pant wetter etc. The pre match press conference quotes are poor though. Mouth open no thought.

 

He has managed to say (to Hearts fans) basically we are going to sit in and hope something happens to get us to et and/or pens. Hardly inspiring. BUT at the same time tell Rosenborg we will beat them. Worst of both worlds. Damped our fans expectations and given them ammunition.

 

All he had to say was "Rosenborg are a great team, their league position doesn't reflect how good they are. We are going to have to at it right from the start"

 

Gives them respect tells us we are going to go for it.

[spacerjoe]

18 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

The boy has played 41 minutes and has done well but nothing exceptional. Relying on him for such an important tie, that could see us go out of Europe until next July seems madness to me. But maybe he’ll swim if thrown in the deep end.
 

And comparisons to Tagawa who is 24 and has played in Europe scoring against Portugal’s biggest clubs is a bit silly.

 

We relied on Tagawa, 24 or not, on Sunday to deliver and he didn't.

 

What's the difference?

 

Tagawa gets a pass for his performance in Sunday because he's played more games than Denholm?

 

Is that what you are saying?

 

You won't excuse a poor performance (which hasn't happened yet) from a young player if he starts, because he hasn't had many minutes... but you will from a senior player, who by all accounts should be delivering instantly?

 

Because if you are that's a bit silly.

 

I'll repeat also, Denholm played already in Rosenborg and was better than our 2 of senior midfielders.

 

He played again on Sunday and was again better than Devlin.

 

For me, he's less risk than playing Devlin, based on this season's form.

 

[Hansel]

Someone on FB saying Vargas not registered in time for this game. Is that right?

[spacerjoe]

1 hour ago, ramrod said:

Tomorrow isn't the game to start him, Sunday yes, without a doubt . 

Yeah, could be Sunday instead. He deserves a chance though.

[DS98]

 I’d play Grant in the midfield. It’s not a game for two DMs imo. He was superb at home v Zurich (until you know what) and we need a similar performance.

[BackOfTheNet]

6 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

 

We relied on Tagawa, 24 or not, on Sunday to deliver and he didn't.

 

What's the difference?

 

Tagawa gets a pass for his performance in Sunday because he's played more games than Denholm?

 

Is that what you are saying?

 

You won't excuse a poor performance (which hasn't happened yet) from a young player if he starts, because he hasn't had many minutes... but you will from a senior player, who by all accounts should be delivering instantly?

 

Because if you are that's a bit silly.

 

I'll repeat also, Denholm played already in Rosenborg and was better than our 2 of senior midfielders.

 

He played again on Sunday and was again better than Devlin.

 

For me, he's less risk than playing Devlin, based on this season's form.

 

Lowry looked a world beater coming off the bench against a tired St. Johnstone and has been pish in his starts since. Let’s not stake much on Denholm’s two sub appearances is all I’m saying.

 

I mean, you’re happy to lament Tagawa after the weekend when he too looked good coming off the bench against St. Johnstone. So maybe we rely on players who we know can start and do well in senior football. Which Denholm has yet to do outside the B team.

 

For clarification I’m not saying anyone would get a ‘pass’ should they not perform well. I’m just saying when players have a career history you can make a determination if it’s a standard performance or an anomaly of a great or off day. You can’t make any such determination about a young laddie that’s played only 41 minutes at our level.

Edited August 16, 2023 by BackOfTheNet

[BackOfTheNet]

4 minutes ago, Hansel said:

Someone on FB saying Vargas not registered in time for this game. Is that right?

Yes, registration only available up to 24 hours before 1st leg and Vargas’ paperwork not done before that point and only completed since. So couldn’t be registered. Can be added for playoff if we progress.

[SuperAustin]

6 minutes ago, Hansel said:

Someone on FB saying Vargas not registered in time for this game. Is that right?

No he can’t play 

had to be registered the Thursday or Friday before to be able to play 

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 minute ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Yes, registration only available up to 24 hours before 1st leg and Vargas’ paperwork not done before that point and only completed since. So couldn’t be registered. Can be added for playoff if we progress.

Disappointed to hear that he’s not available for Thursday.

[gar jambo]

8 minutes ago, DS98 said:

 I’d play Grant in the midfield. It’s not a game for two DMs imo. He was superb at home v Zurich (until you know what) and we need a similar performance.

As long as he don’t let us down and get sent off again that cost us the Game 

[ramrod]

                Clark

 Natty  Kent Rowles Alex

        Calum Cammy 

              Grant 

Oda     Shanks   Lowry

Tanawa , Boyce and Forrest impact player offensively as they tire.

Gives a bit of solidity defensively   plus plenty of  threat offensively. 

[spacerjoe]

14 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Lowry looked a world beater coming off the bench against a tired St. Johnstone and has been pish in his starts since. Let’s not stake much on Denholm’s two sub appearances is all I’m saying.

 

I mean, you’re happy to lament Tagawa after the weekend when he too looked good coming off the bench against St. Johnstone. So maybe we rely on players who we know can start and do well in senior football. Which Denholm has yet to do outside the B team.

 

For clarification I’m not saying anyone would get a ‘pass’ should they perform well. I’m just saying when players have a career history you can make a determination if it’s a standard performance or an anomaly of a great or off day. You can’t make any such determination about a young laddie that’s played only 41 minutes at our level.

Great points and I agree.

 

Tagawa and Lowry deserved to start based on their single sub appearances v St Jo.

 

They then weren't great, but they still deserved their chance.

 

To your point, at the moment I don't see what senior players we have to rely on in midfield with Beni not ready and Haring injured (?).

 

And thats maybe more of a worry about Devlin from my side than necessarily wanting Denholm to be first name down...

 

Edit: also, you'll never know with youngsters until you play them. Something we seem scared to do.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by spacerjoe

[BackOfTheNet]

10 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

Great points and I agree.

 

Tagawa and Lowry deserved to start based on their single sub appearances v St Jo.

 

They then weren't great, but they still deserved their chance.

 

To your point, at the moment I don't see what senior players we have to rely on in midfield with Beni not ready and Haring injured (?).

 

And thats maybe more of a worry about Devlin from my side than necessarily wanting Denholm to be first name down...

 

Edit: also, you'll never know with youngsters until you play them. Something we seem scared to do.

 

There’s playing them in a league game and then playing them in a very important European tie. I’m not actually overly opposed to playing Denholm, I’ve just not seen enough in his 41 minutes that says he should play.

 

The midfield could be picked from Devlin, Nieuwenhof, Lowry, Grant and Halliday. If we have a back three then the first two, if back four then three of the first four probably. I’d maybe pick Denholm ahead of Halliday. But that’s about it.

[hearts00]

28 minutes ago, DS98 said:

 I’d play Grant in the midfield. It’s not a game for two DMs imo. He was superb at home v Zurich (until you know what) and we need a similar performance.

I’m with you on this.  We are crying out for someone clever on the ball, who can break lines. Let’s see what Grant can do in CM. 

[awadooningorgie2]

One thing I feel good about Naismith - he will have the guts to play Denholm if he thinks it is right,

[spacerjoe]

13 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

There’s playing them in a league game and then playing them in a very important European tie. I’m not actually overly opposed to playing Denholm, I’ve just not seen enough in his 41 minutes that says he should play.

 

The midfield could be picked from Devlin, Nieuwenhof, Lowry, Grant and Halliday. If we have a back three then the first two, if back four then three of the first four probably. I’d maybe pick Denholm ahead of Halliday. But that’s about it.

I'd play my dog in front of Halliday in CM.

 

And I don't even own a dog.

[Oda be a JT]

6 minutes ago, awadooningorgie2 said:

One thing I feel good about Naismith - he will have the guts to play Denholm if he thinks it is right,

A phrase I remember my Dad always saying is if a player is good enough, they are old enough!

 

Age is just a number, we have our own examples without going to other leagues/teams - Gordon, Wallace, Paterson, Nicholson, Hickey all recent examples (I will have missed some obv no doubt but been on the shandies watching footy)

 

We need to stop being scared to throw these younger players in - never know if you don’t give them a chance in the first place and barring Hickey we just haven’t more recently.

 

(Denholm/Wilson/Stones) I really like the look of these guys, think they all have bags of potential, loans are good but sometimes chucking them in at the deep end might just work for their development (might not of course).

 

Plus, they also come with a bit of the unknown about them for opponents?

[Gorgieshed]

16 minutes ago, awadooningorgie2 said:

One thing I feel good about Naismith - he will have the guts to play Denholm if he thinks it is right,

I really hope he does play Denholm. He's better than the other options IMO of course. Age shouldn't come in to it.

[BackOfTheNet]

4 minutes ago, spacerjoe said:

I'd play my dog in front of Halliday in CM.

 

And I don't even own a dog.

[Hansel]

45 minutes ago, SuperAustin said:

No he can’t play 

had to be registered the Thursday or Friday before to be able to play 

 

48 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Yes, registration only available up to 24 hours before 1st leg and Vargas’ paperwork not done before that point and only completed since. So couldn’t be registered. Can be added for playoff if we progress.

Thanks.

 

That sucks 😕 

[innerjambo]

Bit pissed that Vargas won't be eligible, but hey ho!!

[Lido]

3 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

If Peter is out it might be an idea to go with the midfield we went with against Zurich, Devlin in the middle with Boyce and Grant either side, with Lowry/Forrest (i know) Shankland and Oda ahead of them with Cochrane and Atkinson staying wide whilst playing diagonals to stretch them?

👍Yes I'd go along with this.

[gorgierulesapply88]

1 hour ago, innerjambo said:

Bit pissed that Vargas won't be eligible, but hey ho!!

Clowns could register the others but not him? Wonder if it was the guy who forgot to order the seats!

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Clowns could register the others but not him? Wonder if it was the guy who forgot to order the seats!

Vargas was last in so it seems reasonable to assume that his process started later. The guy who didn't order the seats left years ago. 

[innerjambo]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

Vargas was last in so it seems reasonable to assume that his process started later. The guy who didn't order the seats left years ago. 

 

Touchie Sir!!

 

[DC_92]

You can only register two players in the week before the first leg. One of Tagawa, Lowry and Vargas was always missing out.

[Oda be a JT]

9 minutes ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Clowns could register the others but not him? Wonder if it was the guy who forgot to order the seats!

🤣🤣🤣

[gnasher75]

                   Clark

     Sibbick   Kent   Rowles

 Atkinson    Devlin   Cochrane 

       Oda      Boyce      McKay

                 Shankland

 

                    Clark

Atkinson Kent Rowles Cochrane

               Devlin Haring

            Oda Boyce McKay

                Shankland

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

The only option I can see to make sure Rosenburg don't run through out midfield on the break is to have Cochrane playing in there, in the same way he did when Kingsley came on at RB and he pushed further forward. Devlin can then stick to the right midfield. Grant or Hoff can take centre mid role (Lowry hasn't really earned a start but he could slot into CM later when he's more likely to affect the game). 

 

                   Clark

 Atkinson  Kent  Rowles  Kingsley

        Devlin  Grant  Cochrane 

          Oda     Shanks   Boyce

 

Or, bearing in mind Rosenburg didn't try to hit balls into our box, this game could suit Sibbick better as part of a back 3 - and we could really go at them early doors with Atkinson and Cochrane bombing up the wings.

 

                   Clark

       Sibbick  Kent  Rowles

Atkinson                   Cochrane       

             Devlin  Boyce   

       Oda     Shanks  Tagawa

 

 

 

 

 

[muldoon74]

2 hours ago, Oda be a JT said:

A phrase I remember my Dad always saying is if a player is good enough, they are old enough!

 

Age is just a number, we have our own examples without going to other leagues/teams - Gordon, Wallace, Paterson, Nicholson, Hickey all recent examples (I will have missed some obv no doubt but been on the shandies watching footy)

 

We need to stop being scared to throw these younger players in - never know if you don’t give them a chance in the first place and barring Hickey we just haven’t more recently.

 

(Denholm/Wilson/Stones) I really like the look of these guys, think they all have bags of potential, loans are good but sometimes chucking them in at the deep end might just work for their development (might not of course).

 

Plus, they also come with a bit of the unknown about them for opponents?

In bold...

 

Different sport but arguably higher level...

 

Tony Stanger was 19 when he scored against England in the Grand Slam/Calcutta Cup/Five Nations winning game in 1990. 

 

19. Rugby International. 

 

Good Enough? Old Enough... 

[muldoon74]

Just now, muldoon74 said:

In bold...

 

Different sport but arguably higher level...

 

Tony Stanger was 19 when he scored against England in the Grand Slam/Calcutta Cup/Five Nations winning game in 1990. 

 

19. Rugby International. 

 

Good Enough? Old Enough... 

 

Just now, muldoon74 said:

In bold...

 

Different sport but arguably higher level...

 

Tony Stanger was 19 when he scored against England in the Grand Slam/Calcutta Cup/Five Nations winning game in 1990. 

 

19. Rugby International. 

 

Good Enough? Old Enough... 

Correction, just checked he was 21. 

 

But Still .... 🙄

 

Don't believe it moots my point... 

[Hungry hippo]

I don't think anyone is saying that Denholm is too young. The question is who is the best player for this key game and it's very debatable as this thread shows there's not an obvious answer.

 

I think Devlin is extremely likely to play (assuming Haring is out) so it's one from the others. Probably not much between Denholm, Nieuwenhof and Grant ( with Sibbick, Halliday and Cochrane as more wildcard alternatives) so it's up to the management team to make the call based on gut instinct.

 

I don't doubt they will be bold enough to select Denholm if they decide he's the best player for the occasion. 

[PaddysBar]

6 hours ago, johnking123 said:

Start like we have the first few game and we are f*****

Agree but don’t think we will. 
 

Also, finish like we did against the fairmers and the Vikings and we could be ok. 
 

Either way, probably just best to turn up tomorrow and cheer the team on👍

[gorgierulesapply88]

Any fireworks this morning? 

[ShedBoy]

Match day in the capital. 
 

HWFG!

 

Morning Jambos ♥️♥️G♥️

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

1 hour ago, gorgierulesapply88 said:

Any fireworks this morning? 

Seen on fbook there was

[CMc]

Thought their left winger was absolutely key for them. They looked half the side when he went off. 
 

They also had a vampiric aversion to crosses and, whilst it is not a tactic I would normally advocate, they utterly shat the bed every time it was lumped up into the mixer. 
 

They key is going to be having enough midfield runners who can stay switched on enough to pick up the third man runs and the break aways. Iwould be packing the bench with midfielders as we will end up needing some tactical fouls in the middle of the park. 
 

Not seen enough of Calem to know for sure, but him, Cam and Jorge might be the correct midfield three on the basis of mobility and acknowledging the need to get a goal against a team who can prepare to sit in and counter. I would have advocated starting Liam, but I don’t know if he’s the man to chase runners box to box. 
 

Big night for Oda. Really important role either side of the ball. 
 

Tagawa or Cochrane on the left. If cochrane, maybe drop one of the central three to allow Tagawa up top (but probably save this for later in the game). 
 

think this one is won by strangling them through holding possession, breaking up their transitions effectively and hemming them in deep in their half. They did not like defending deep and looked deeply suspect at it. 
 

Play like we did for the last half hour and we should do the job. 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

10 hours ago, Led Tasso said:

I'd rather see Devlin and Calem paired together. Hoff has seemed lost when he's pushed further forward but back in a holding mid pair with Cammy I think he might do fine.

 

Nieuwenhof absolutely should be in with Devlin in there tonight; I really do hope he's been asked to take a step back and focus on this game

 

Even everyone on here is not expecting it, never mind anyone else

[red]

If Rosenborg score first tonight we have a mountain to climb albeit not an impossible one (up to 80 mins) 

 

but up until 80 minutes the players will be well aware of this and that often leads to ‘safe play’ or backwards passing….it could also go the Zurich way with lots of attacking but no goals (they were coming!!) 

 

the players need patience from us tonight and a constant backing even if it goes 0-1….

 

we’ve got this one

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

We need to be on the front foot tonight and not letting them settle in my opinion 

[gregzy2k7]

 💯% agree,

 

Sitting here on the other side of the World in Australia, Honestly wishing I could attend this game tonight!! Think it will be a really good one!! Every single fan inside the stadium, I ask you to please bring the noise tonight!! Lets lift the roof off of Tynecastle!! Sing your hearts out from start to finish no matter how the score is sitting and also let's Intimidate the living daylights out of Rosenborg fc, Boo every touch from their players and make it a cauldron/Lions den tonight, if we can get in their heads early and make them nervous and at the same time lift our team, Hopefully that inspires us to a win and Into the next round.

 

Cmon HHGH!!

[Canscot]

Made the trip over and am lucky enough to have a ticket for tonight. 
Cannae wait! Butterflies already!

 

[Kev1998]

Have to get ripped into them from the start.use the energy from the crowd and we could find ourselves a couple up in the first half hour. 

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

50 minutes ago, CMc said:

Thought their left winger was absolutely key for them. They looked half the side when he went off. 
 

They also had a vampiric aversion to crosses and, whilst it is not a tactic I would normally advocate, they utterly shat the bed every time it was lumped up into the mixer. 
 

They key is going to be having enough midfield runners who can stay switched on enough to pick up the third man runs and the break aways. Iwould be packing the bench with midfielders as we will end up needing some tactical fouls in the middle of the park. 
 

Not seen enough of Calem to know for sure, but him, Cam and Jorge might be the correct midfield three on the basis of mobility and acknowledging the need to get a goal against a team who can prepare to sit in and counter. I would have advocated starting Liam, but I don’t know if he’s the man to chase runners box to box. 
 

Big night for Oda. Really important role either side of the ball. 
 

Tagawa or Cochrane on the left. If cochrane, maybe drop one of the central three to allow Tagawa up top (but probably save this for later in the game). 
 

think this one is won by strangling them through holding possession, breaking up their transitions effectively and hemming them in deep in their half. They did not like defending deep and looked deeply suspect at it. 
 

Play like we did for the last half hour and we should do the job. 

Good analysis. 
 

Everyone is talking about whether or not Denholm is old enough but we really need someone to sit on their young kid (16yrs old?!) who ran the show for them in the middle of the park.

[GinRummy]

1 hour ago, CMc said:

Thought their left winger was absolutely key for them. They looked half the side when he went off. 
 

They also had a vampiric aversion to crosses and, whilst it is not a tactic I would normally advocate, they utterly shat the bed every time it was lumped up into the mixer. 
 

They key is going to be having enough midfield runners who can stay switched on enough to pick up the third man runs and the break aways. Iwould be packing the bench with midfielders as we will end up needing some tactical fouls in the middle of the park. 
 

Not seen enough of Calem to know for sure, but him, Cam and Jorge might be the correct midfield three on the basis of mobility and acknowledging the need to get a goal against a team who can prepare to sit in and counter. I would have advocated starting Liam, but I don’t know if he’s the man to chase runners box to box. 
 

Big night for Oda. Really important role either side of the ball. 
 

Tagawa or Cochrane on the left. If cochrane, maybe drop one of the central three to allow Tagawa up top (but probably save this for later in the game). 
 

think this one is won by strangling them through holding possession, breaking up their transitions effectively and hemming them in deep in their half. They did not like defending deep and looked deeply suspect at it. 
 

Play like we did for the last half hour and we should do the job. 

Good post. Midfield could well be key and I think 3 in there could work well.

[fabienleclerq]

9 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

There’s playing them in a league game and then playing them in a very important European tie. I’m not actually overly opposed to playing Denholm, I’ve just not seen enough in his 41 minutes that says he should play.

 

The midfield could be picked from Devlin, Nieuwenhof, Lowry, Grant and Halliday. If we have a back three then the first two, if back four then three of the first four probably. I’d maybe pick Denholm ahead of Halliday. But that’s about it.

Based on what you've seen you'd play Nieuwenhof in front of him?

[spirt of 98]

10 hours ago, Daveandal said:

 

I'm completely fine with the management structure so I'm not a pant wetter etc. The pre match press conference quotes are poor though. Mouth open no thought.

 

He has managed to say (to Hearts fans) basically we are going to sit in and hope something happens to get us to et and/or pens. Hardly inspiring. BUT at the same time tell Rosenborg we will beat them. Worst of both worlds. Damped our fans expectations and given them ammunition.

 

All he had to say was "Rosenborg are a great team, their league position doesn't reflect how good they are. We are going to have to at it right from the start"

 

Gives them respect tells us we are going to go for it.

May be the plan is to catch them cold like we always tried to do against the Old Firm at Tynecastle and level the tie fast.

 

Why would the management team warm the opposition of this? 

[BackOfTheNet]

16 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

Based on what you've seen you'd play Nieuwenhof in front of him?

I’d play someone who is 22, had 39 senior appearances, most of which playing last season alongside established players like Morgan Schneiderlein and has 5 Australian U23 caps, who we’ve just paid a fee for after extensive scouting ahead of a 19 year old who’s played 41 minutes at our level with only B team appearances and the equivalent of 7 League 2 loan appearances to accompany that, who was being let go at the end of the season until the change of management? Yes. Absolutely.

Edited August 17, 2023 by BackOfTheNet

[LochcarronJambo]

None of the sitting in please, careful yes, but Hearts are a better team pressing & going at opposition at Tynie

[Kendoll]

Excited for this one, these are the games we plough our money into the club for. 

 

Not even in the office yet and already wishing my work day was finished. Few beers then off to Tynecastle. 

 

Let's make some noise!