4-2-3-1

[Drylaw Hearts]

This formation is horrific.

 

Especially with the players we have.

 

Csaba I beg you to bin it.

[TheBigO]

He's already said he wants the team to learn 3 or 4 formations and strategies cos they must be tactically aware, so i wouldnt worry. Didn't we change it at halftime tonight anyway?

 

Said this on another thread - its not so bad a formtation if played right anyway (thats the problem!!). CHelsea play it, as do Arsenal and often Liverpool and Man U. It can be very attacking especially if your fullbacks get forward

[Drylaw Hearts]

He's already said he wants the team to learn 3 or 4 formations and strategies cos they must be tactically aware, so i wouldnt worry. Didn't we change it at halftime tonight anyway?

 

Said this on another thread - its not so bad a formtation if played right anyway (thats the problem!!). CHelsea play it, as do Arsenal and often Liverpool and Man U. It can be very attacking especially if your fullbacks get forward

 

Although Csaba said we changed it I don't think we did.

 

Mole definately played behind Glen and then Husband played behind Mole when he came on for Glen.

 

At no point did we have 2 strikers playing alongside each other in the traditional 4-4-2 way.

[portobellojambo1]

He's already said he wants the team to learn 3 or 4 formations and strategies cos they must be tactically aware, so i wouldnt worry. Didn't we change it at halftime tonight anyway?

 

Said this on another thread - its not so bad a formtation if played right anyway (thats the problem!!). CHelsea play it, as do Arsenal and often Liverpool and Man U. It can be very attacking especially if your fullbacks get forward

 

Are we not starting at a bit of a disadvantage then, our full backs aren't exactly the best in the business.

 

I think it would be very difficult to get a formation that would suit the players we presently have, as we have no attack minded midfielders (a la Hartley), no penetration wide and badly need an additional striker who can score goals. It is very difficult to come up with a formation for a squad which has very few genuine attacking options, unless you buy/bring in players to fill the problem positions.

[Dirk Diggler]

We, the fans, demand 4-4-2.

 

Anything else is simply unacceptable.

 

[Drylaw Hearts]

We, the fans, demand 4-4-2.

 

Anything else is simply unacceptable.

 

 

 

Having watched 2 attempts a 4-2-3-1 it is clear a hell it's not going to work.

 

Unless he signs 10 new players to fit the system.

[Dirk Diggler]

 

Having watched 2 attempts a 4-2-3-1 it is clear a hell it's not going to work.

 

Unless he signs 10 new players to fit the system.

 

 

Somewhere in between i'd guess.

 

Think it's a bit early to be writing anything off though.

[Jambof3tornado]

I couldnt tell what the formation was most of the time.

 

Lots of work to be done and the players we have are not good enough.

Not an over reaction,we looked poor and uninterested,and if thats what playing to impress your new manager is like I would sack most of the players from tonight(chesney and mole the exceptions).

[Drylaw Hearts]

 

Somewhere in between i'd guess.

 

Think it's a bit early to be writing anything off though.

 

With only 3 weeks before the start of the Season I'm worried.

 

The players we have will never be able to fit into that system.

[Johanes de Silentio]

It's not about sytems and formations - it's about players - we need better players!

[Maximus]

We simply don't have the players to try attacking systems tbh. However from the sounds of it this system is rank and will congest play. Something of a compromise may be a 4-4-1-1 system. I think 'holding midfielders' are terribly overrated in the modern game (unless they have licence to go forward) and playing with 2 is hardly going to create great attacking football. Anyone in the centre of midfield should primarily be building up play.

 

If we play 2 central midfielders who are pretty comfortable on the ball, say Larry and Eggert, swapping over so one can move forward while the other covers that would be better in theory than what we had last season and this new system imo. On the flanks have one winger (Chesney) and one wide midfielder who can track back (new signing?). Then play Miko/Mole just behind a lone striker?

[wavydavy]

He's already said he wants the team to learn 3 or 4 formations and strategies cos they must be tactically aware, so i wouldnt worry. Didn't we change it at halftime tonight anyway?

 

Said this on another thread - its not so bad a formtation if played right anyway (thats the problem!!). CHelsea play it, as do Arsenal and often Liverpool and Man U. It can be very attacking especially if your fullbacks get forward

 

Yes, he changed to a 4-4-2 in the second half and it improved things once Palazuelos had less of the ball and Mole worked hard up front.

[Csaba's Broon Shoes]

It's not about sytems and formations - it's about players - we need better players!

 

spot on , it does not matter which system/formation/tactics

this group of players are no good

even if Alex Ferguson and Jose Mourinho were in charge of them we

would still get beaten

bottom 6 with that lot of what played tonight

Csaba has got some job on his hands and needs a massive clear-out

The boy Dougie MacDonald had a good game for Dunfermline though

[The Brow]

CHelsea play it, as do Arsenal and often Liverpool and Man U. It can be very attacking especially if your fullbacks get forward

 

And therein lies the crux of the problem. The 3 biggest teams in England (and Chelsea) play it. Now if we had Rooney, Drogba, Ronaldo, Torres, etc playing for us then it would work. But we have Elliott, Miko, Nade etc. You need world class players to make this formation work. They have to be fit as fiddles, fast, intelligent and able to pass the ball first time straight to feet.

 

4-4-2 until we get some stability. Or at least until we get some proper modern full backs.

[Groot]

And therein lies the crux of the problem. The 3 biggest teams in England (and Chelsea) play it. Now if we had Rooney, Drogba, Ronaldo, Torres, etc playing for us then it would work. But we have Elliott, Miko, Nade etc. You need world class players to make this formation work. They have to be fit as fiddles, fast, intelligent and able to pass the ball first time straight to feet.

 

4-4-2 until we get some stability. Or at least until we get some proper modern full backs.

 

I think the most important thing is the 2 sitting midfielders are not 2 Brellier type midfielders as I have said in another thread. You need 2 players that can put the foot in if required but are mostly seen as deep lying playmakers i.e. Carrick and Alonso as they can find space for themselves and can make thr right pass at the right time creating space for their team mates

[Only a Game]

We simply don't have the players to try attacking systems tbh. However from the sounds of it this system is rank and will congest play. Something of a compromise may be a 4-4-1-1 system. I think 'holding midfielders' are terribly overrated in the modern game (unless they have licence to go forward) and playing with 2 is hardly going to create great attacking football. Anyone in the centre of midfield should primarily be building up play.

 

If we play 2 central midfielders who are pretty comfortable on the ball, say Larry and Eggert, swapping over so one can move forward while the other covers that would be better in theory than what we had last season and this new system imo. On the flanks have one winger (Chesney) and one wide midfielder who can track back (new signing?). Then play Miko/Mole just behind a lone striker?

 

 

We played 4-4-1-1 for a part of the second half (Mole behind Glen) Our best period of the game was when we put Mole up front and Templeton started to come inside from wide. I just dont think we need to be playing with two deep sitting midfield players in most of the games we will be playing this season. If we can turn Larry into an attacking central midfield player then we've solved one of the gaping problems in the system. But we need to get the best put of the two wide men, who will sometimes have to come narrow to support the striker and for it to work at all we must get two modern full backs who can get up and down. The we've got to get passers of the ball in the deeper areas, which we havent got at the moment (although we should try Aquiar and Jonsson there before we confirm that). We would also need a different type of striker to what Glen is (its unfair to ask him to play that role) although Mole did a bit better at it.

[Only a Game]

Yes, he changed to a 4-4-2 in the second half and it improved things once Palazuelos had less of the ball and Mole worked hard up front.

 

Strange. I didnt see any stage of the game where we were playing 4-4-2 tonight ?

[The Brow]

I think the most important thing is the 2 sitting midfielders are not 2 Brellier type midfielders as I have said in another thread. You need 2 players that can put the foot in if required but are mostly seen as deep lying playmakers i.e. Carrick and Alonso as they can find space for themselves and can make thr right pass at the right time creating space for their team mates

 

Completely agree but as you mention Carrick and Alonso (especially Alonso) are bloody good players, even before they receive a pass they know where they are going to play the ball. Hearts just dont have that level of player, which is the point im trying to make. You could tell Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool to go out and do whatever they want and they'd STILL win 70% of their games!

[Drylaw Hearts]

Strange. I didnt see any stage of the game where we were playing 4-4-2 tonight ?

 

Neither did I.

[269miles]

4-2-3-1 ?

 

That'll be 6 at the back then , with the players we've got this formation can never work. I don't see our full backs romping forward to support the attack.

Robbie will just hoof it into Row Z as usual.

 

I won't jump to any conlusions about Csaba after a couple of games but I hope he is basing his formations of the ablities of the players and not some idealistic notion from a UEFA coaching course.

 

WTF are we thinking about playing with 2 holding midfielders in the SPL - do we even have 2 players capable of playing in that role ?

 

As some other poster said, Csaba must see something we don't. I hope he's right.

[Charlie-Brown]

So after only 5 days training and 2 test matches and we should abandon it?

 

Surely it would be better giving the players more time to adapt to it, learn where they should be on the field, how to position themselves, how to combine etc.

 

One of the disappointing aspects tonite wasn't the fault of the formation but as a result of poor passing and poor movement - too often the ball wasn't moved around quickly enough, players wanted too much time on the ball, passing wasn't crisp enough or accurate enough,players didn't receive passes played in front of them but too often behind them or out of stride - regardless of formation chosen those things will cause problems with our play.

 

But giving the players a lot more time too adapt and csaba to train the players and add players in positions he wants 4-2-3-1 or it's derivatives will be much better - at least we resisted the urge to play hoofball tonite which was encouraging even if our passing wasn't anywhere near as good as it should be.

[Salvatore's Tash]

Csaba wants to play 4-4-2. The players are beginning to work on that. The reason for the jazzed up 4-5-1 is our lack of strikers and the fact the players worked on it under Angel before Csaba's appointment.

 

4-4-2 in Germany guaranteed.

[Charlie-Brown]

Apart from poor passing which was the biggest problem tonite the problem with the formation was the 4 at the back and the 3 between the 2 midfielders & the striker all played square in the same line - to be effective when in possession then one of the central defenders has to drop deeper and the other push closer to the 2 holding midfielders forming a diamond and the attacking 3 & the striker have to form a diamond shape as well meaning the you have 1-2-1-2-1-2-1 all the way up the pitch and enables triangles and quick one-two passes between players, also the wingers and the attacking midfielder have to combine closer with the striker - then players need to learn these things.

 

==============GK================

 

==============CB================

===RB======================LB===

==============CB================

========RM============LM========

==============AM================

===RW======================LW===

==============CF================

 

Hearts played too square and flat tonite and there wasn't the correct distances between the forward players meaning the striker was often isolated without the wingers and attacking mdfielder giving him close support that these kind of systems need.

[Only a Game]

 

Hearts played too square and flat tonite and there wasn't the correct distances between the forward players meaning the striker was often isolated without the wingers and attacking mdfielder giving him close support that these kind of systems need.

 

Your asking your wingers to play a bit narrower in this system, otherwise how can they support the striker.

 

I think A. Thats asking too much of our wingers given their current standard and B. The system cannot possibly suceed unless you have two attacking full backs. (which we dont currently have)

[Coco]

Apart from poor passing which was the biggest problem tonite the problem with the formation was the 4 at the back and the 3 between the 2 midfielders & the striker all played square in the same line - to be effective when in possession then one of the central defenders has to drop deeper and the other push closer to the 2 holding midfielders forming a diamond and the attacking 3 & the striker have to form a diamond shape as well meaning the you have 1-2-1-2-1-2-1 all the way up the pitch and enables triangles and quick one-two passes between players, also the wingers and the attacking midfielder have to combine closer with the striker - then players need to learn these things.

 

==============GK================

 

==============CB================

===RB======================LB===

==============CB================

========RM============LM========

==============AM================

===RW======================LW===

==============CF================

 

Hearts played too square and flat tonite and there wasn't the correct distances between the forward players meaning the striker was often isolated without the wingers and attacking mdfielder giving him close support that these kind of systems need.

 

Didn't see last night's game.

 

But if Hearts play anything like that diagram above this season then the results would be horrific.

 

With the lazy/poor players we have in midfield/up front the ball retention is horrendous - and the defence would be caught out of line all the time. Would be so easy to rip us apart.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4-2-3-1 worked for Manchester United last season.

 

We aren't Manchester United.

[shaun.lawson]

Question: does every other SPL side (apart from, ahem, the relentlessly entertaining Rangers) play 4-4-2?

[Coco]

4-2-3-1 worked for Manchester United last season.

 

We aren't Manchester United.

 

It didn't work for us last season.

 

We saw it a number of times with Ksnavicius or Stewart both floundering in the 'hole'. Even worse it gives the likes of Ivaskevicius free rein not to work back if he is one of the 'wide' strikers.

 

Nor is it suited to our players in the holding role - Palazuelos is far too lightweight and immobile for that.

 

It is a rank formation for the squad we have. And it appears that Lazlo so far doesn't have the right to change it.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Question: does every other SPL side (apart from, ahem, the relentlessly entertaining Rangers) play 4-4-2?

 

JJ always plays the flat back 11 against the OF.

 

And h**s play "total football" so have no need for formations (or at least they used to! )

[shaun.lawson]

JJ always plays the flat back 11 against the OF.

 

And h**s play "total football" so have no need for formations (or at least they used to! )

 

Yes - 2-3-5 doesn't really work when you're just hoofing it, does it?

 

It's a serious question though. Like anyone else, I want us to play the way that suits our players best - but often think that in the UK, we're so stuck on 4-4-2, and so convinced it enables us to play the 'British way' (fast, direct, physical, attacking) that we have a very jaundiced attitude when it comes to literally any other system.

 

3-5-2's completely out of fashion now, but I remember the pelters JJ used to get when he deployed it for a while; and if we can find a way of signing the right players for, say, a 4-3-3 attacking/4-5-1 defending formation (because football's as much about what you do without the ball as with it), I'd have no complaints. I appreciate we don't have the players at the moment though, to say the least!

[We_are_the_Hearts]

It's not the formation, it's the players. There isn't a formation that would suit these players just now. Without Kingston we have no one who can create. Our forwards can't hold the ball up or drag a defence out. Our midfield don't support quick enough. We struggle to retain the ball high up the park. Our full backs don't offer enough support.

 

CSABA talks a good game but no one could turn that squad into winners. New players are needed................QUICKLY!

[Coco]

It's not the formation, it's the players. There isn't a formation that would suit these players just now. Without Kingston we have no one who can create. Our forwards can't hold the ball up or drag a defence out. Our midfield don't support quick enough. We struggle to retain the ball high up the park. Our full backs don't offer enough support.

 

CSABA talks a good game but no one could turn that squad into winners. New players are needed................QUICKLY!

 

We know that. I am sure that if Lazlo knows football he knows that.

 

But VR seemed to think that those players in that formation would work last year - and only the 'unfair' competition from the OF and the local mafia meant that we lost the title.

 

What has changed for VR?

[vegas-voss]

Question: does every other SPL side (apart from, ahem, the relentlessly entertaining Rangers) play 4-4-2?

 

Only Celtic play 4-4-2 most others are a variation of 4-5-1.

[shaun.lawson]

Only Celtic play 4-4-2 most others are a variation of 4-5-1.

 

Presumably because, on paper, no-one else is as strong as Celtic?

[Balders]

Question: does every other SPL side (apart from, ahem, the relentlessly entertaining Rangers) play 4-4-2?

 

That is not the case. Motherwell last season played a variation 4-2-3-1 with 1 up and 2 strikers/attacking players in the wide positions. Hibs under Mowbary and Collins played this system. Falkirk do something similar.

 

Too often I watch Hearts lose the midfield due to other teams having more numbers in there and being able to pass the ball better. This results in us going long from the back as we are unable to work the ball through midfdield. I think we badly need a player who is able to play off the main striker and has the ability to drop deep when required but also to get up and support the main striker. The wide players also need to be taught to interchange and join in play, too often our wide men run up and down in straight lines.

[shaun.lawson]

That is not the case. Motherwell last season played a variation 4-2-3-1 with 1 up and 2 strikers/attacking players in the wide positions. Hibs under Mowbary and Collins played this system. Falkirk do something similar.

 

Too often I watch Hearts lose the midfield due to other teams having more numbers in there and being able to pass the ball better. This results in us going long from the back as we are unable to work the ball through midfdield. I think we badly need a player who is able to play off the main striker and has the ability to drop deep when required but also to get up and support the main striker. The wide players also need to be taught to interchange and join in play, too often our wide men run up and down in straight lines.

 

Interesting, thanks for that. What's significant about all the sides you mentioned is that all played good, attractive football: odd, given so many have this strange assumption that 4-5-1 is a negative system. It isn't at all: it's about players with movement, pace and a bit of wit about them. Now alright, we can't run before we can walk, and shoehorning players into a system isn't going to work - but our defenders often get so much stick for not passing the ball properly, and I'd suggest that must have something to do with the chronic lack of movement in midfield and, as you say, us being outnumbered there.

[Balders]

Interesting, thanks for that. What's significant about all the sides you mentioned is that all played good, attractive football: odd, given so many have this strange assumption that 4-5-1 is a negative system. It isn't at all: it's about players with movement, pace and a bit of wit about them. Now alright, we can't run before we can walk, and shoehorning players into a system isn't going to work - but our defenders often get so much stick for not passing the ball properly, and I'd suggest that must have something to do with the chronic lack of movement in midfield and, as you say, us being outnumbered there.

 

Agree with that. If we are to play this formation then for me the most important thing is to get a quality player to play the "number 10 " position off the main striker. Maybe we could tempt Zidane out of retirement!!!

[Charlie-Brown]

Didn't see last night's game.

 

But if Hearts play anything like that diagram above this season then the results would be horrific.

 

With the lazy/poor players we have in midfield/up front the ball retention is horrendous - and the defence would be caught out of line all the time. Would be so easy to rip us apart.

 

That is the way the players should approximately position themselves when in POSSESSION Coco when playing that system - that way they always have a pass, inside or forward or behind........when the opposition has the ball then the players filter back into 4-2-3-1 lines or even 4-5-1 which should provide enough defensive cover to prevent the opposition breaking through.

 

What we did wrong through was we didn't alternate between attacking / defending mode anywhere near quickly enough so when we had the ball we were too flat and too static thus we didn't have anywhere near the amount of passing options we should have had, too often when we had the ball our players were standing still looking at the man with the ball and also because they played in flat lines the passing angles were all wrong....as well as the forward 3 not get anywhere near close enough to Glen or Mole until very late on in the game when Husband and Templeton came on.

 

Better passing, better movement, better positioning, better combination play is what is required BUT this is also true if we play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 or any other formation.

[Coco]

That is the way the players should approximately position themselves when in POSSESSION Coco when playing that system - that way they always have a pass, inside or forward or behind........when the opposition has the ball then the players filter back into 4-2-3-1 lines or even 4-5-1 which should provide enough defensive cover to prevent the opposition breaking through.

 

What we did wrong through was we didn't alternate between attacking / defending mode anywhere near quickly enough so when we had the ball we were too flat and too static thus we didn't have anywhere near the amount of passing options we should have had, too often when we had the ball our players were standing still looking at the man with the ball and also because they played in flat lines the passing angles were all wrong....as well as the forward 3 not get anywhere near close enough to Glen or Mole until very late on in the game when Husband and Templeton came on.

 

Better passing, better movement, better positioning, better combination play is what is required BUT this is also true if we play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 or any other formation.

 

As I said I didn't see last night's game.

 

But if you think that any defenders have a chance to get into a good line again when we have players as adept at losing the ball as cheaply as Ksnavicius, Palazuelos, Miko, Ivaskevicius, Elliot etc then you are kidding yourself.

 

Might work in a slow paced European league. It would get rogered in the SPL with our players in midfield/up front. You need the safety of a proper back 4 and at least one holding midfielder - as per Burley's side.

[Charlie-Brown]

As I said I didn't see last night's game.

 

But if you think that any defenders have a chance to get into a good line again when we have players as adept at losing the ball as cheaply as Ksnavicius, Palazuelos, Miko, Ivaskevicius, Elliot etc then you are kidding yourself.

 

Might work in a slow paced European league. It would get rogered in the SPL with our players in midfield/up front. You need the safety of a proper back 4 and at least one holding midfielder - as per Burley's side.

 

Motherwell & Falkirk played this formation last season and Hibs played this way under Mowbray & Collins - it's about how the players move, pass & interact that determines whether any system is successful, Burley had his formation and it worked but it is not the only way to play and the back 4 don't have to play in a flat line ala George Graham's Arsenal although he also built successful teams.

 

Basically I've seen us play 4-4-2, 4-5-1 and 4-2-3-1 andthe problems are the same in all of these formations - passing, movement & combining - we are too square and too static however we line up.

[Jammy T]

I havent seen any game so far but I did see Miko's goal and we had 4 players in attack (in what was not some sort of breakaway move) against about 8 defenders.

 

Can anyone who has seen the games confirm:

 

1. Whether the system looks any different from what we played (so abysmally) last season

2. Whether there are ever any decent numbers in attack from open play (ie not corners or free kicks into the box)

 

Cheers

[We_are_the_Hearts]

I havent seen any game so far but I did see Miko's goal and we had 4 players in attack (in what was not some sort of breakaway move) against about 8 defenders.

 

Can anyone who has seen the games confirm:

 

1. Whether the system looks any different from what we played (so abysmally) last season

2. Whether there are ever any decent numbers in attack from open play (ie not corners or free kicks into the box)

 

Cheers

 

Rememebr Miko scored after 5 minutes when players are generally feeling their way into the game. From what I have seen we do seem to be getting decent numbers forward but the smae problem from last season exists. Our choice making and final ball in the last 3rd are WOEFUL. This can be helped by good coaching but QUALITY players tend to do this well naturally. Again it comes back to the quality argument.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I havent seen any game so far but I did see Miko's goal and we had 4 players in attack (in what was not some sort of breakaway move) against about 8 defenders.

 

Can anyone who has seen the games confirm:

 

1. Whether the system looks any different from what we played (so abysmally) last season

2. Whether there are ever any decent numbers in attack from open play (ie not corners or free kicks into the box)

 

Cheers

 

1. No.

 

2. No.

[Charlie-Brown]

Towards the end of the game last nite, last 20 minutes, we had Mole as striker with Chesney, Husband & Templeton supporting and Stewart also breaking forward whilst Palazeulous sat, it was in this period that we created our best chances and got most numbers into the box and it was because the youngsters has more movement and willingness to get forward.

 

It was also in this period the back four realised that if they staggered their line they had better inter-passing options then when they simply played in a flat line and could only pass square across back & forth making no progress.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I don't think it is any surprise Csaba is going for this formation as it is the one used by the four most attractive playing teams in Euro 08 - Russia, Holland, Portugal and Spain.

 

It allows teams to play in the holes between midfield and attack and between defence and midfield, stratching the opposition. This leads to a lot of wing play, requiring speed out wide, strong movement up front and a player behind the striker who can dictate the tempo as well as chip in with goals themselves.

 

I not Csaba is currently 'educating' the squad on football. I have no doubt this includes videos of the like of Holland and Russia showing them how to learn these roles.

 

Get it right, and with the correct personnel, we could be watching some glorious football this year.

 

Give. Him. Time.

 

He's trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

 

We don't the players capable to play 4-2-3-1.

 

Surely you should find a system that suits your players rather than fit them into a formation that you cleary don't have the personnel for ?

[Coco]

Towards the end of the game last nite, last 20 minutes, we had Mole as striker with Chesney, Husband & Templeton supporting and Stewart also breaking forward whilst Palazeulous sat, it was in this period that we created our best chances and got most numbers into the box and it was because the youngsters has more movement and willingness to get forward.

 

It was also in this period the back four realised that if they staggered their line they had better inter-passing options then when they simply played in a flat line and could only pass square across back & forth making no progress.

 

All very interesting.

 

But if we play with that sort of group of players - Palazuelos sitting for example or Stewart in the hole; or with a 'staggered' back 4 we are going to get absolutely humped beyond belief in the SPL.

[Charlie-Brown]

Playing a Burley type formation 4-1-3-2 or 4-4-2 won't solve our problems becausewithout Jankauskas hold up play and Skacel & Hartley's movement those systems didn't work too well either as we saw when Skacel left or when Jankauskas didn't play we weren't anywhere nearly as effective.

 

In the back four of Neilson, Pressley, Webster & Fyssas it was only Takis forward passing that was anywhere near good enough - the other 3 either played square passes or hoofed it forward which was okay when Jankauskas could hold up even poorer balls played forward but during the early Rix tenure when Jankauskas missed several games our results declined in this period - they improved again when Janny returned.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Playing a Burley type formation 4-1-3-2 or 4-4-2 won't solve our problems becausewithout Jankauskas hold up play and Skacel & Hartley's movement those systems didn't work too well either as we saw when Skacel left or when Jankauskas didn't play we weren't anywhere nearly as effective.

 

Aye, and clearly, playing a 4-2-3-1 won't solve our problems either. We cannie even beat first division ****e.

 

In the back four of Neilson, Pressley, Webster & Fyssas it was only Takis forward passing that was anywhere near good enough - the other 3 either played square passes or hoofed it forward which was okay when Jankauskas could hold up even poorer balls played forward but during the early Rix tenure when Jankauskas missed several games our results declined in this period - they improved again when Janny returned.

 

Well I'll tell you what. The passing of the back four of Nielson, Pressley, Webster and Fysass was a damn sight better than what have right now.

[Coco]

Playing a Burley type formation 4-1-3-2 or 4-4-2 won't solve our problems becausewithout Jankauskas hold up play and Skacel & Hartley's movement those systems didn't work too well either as we saw when Skacel left or when Jankauskas didn't play we weren't anywhere nearly as effective.

Correct. We need to get rid of virtually all of our midfield and front players and start again. The 4-5-1 is even less suited to our players than 4-4-2.

 

In the back four of Neilson' date=' Pressley, Webster & Fyssas it was only Takis forward passing that was anywhere near good enough - the other 3 either played square passes or hoofed it forward which was okay when Jankauskas could hold up even poorer balls played forward but during the early Rix tenure when Jankauskas missed several games our results declined in this period - they improved again when Janny returned.[/quote']

 

Fyssas had some fantastic ability but gave away the ball more than any of the other defenders. But, the missing link in the past 2 seasons has been the loss of Brellier. He came short and picked up the ball from the defenders and unfussily passed it on to the attacking players.

 

As for not having Jankauskas - the burden of not having a striker who can hold the ball up is even greater with 1 up front - as we saw last season.

 

Anyway, who in the wonderful 1-2-1-2-3-1 formation is expected to be the second 1? Zaliukas?

[Charlie-Brown]

He's trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

 

We don't the players capable to play 4-2-3-1.

 

Surely you should find a system that suits your players rather than fit them into a formation that you cleary don't have the personnel for ?

 

It's not the 4-2-3-1 that is the problem - as 4-4-2 or any other formation system isn't the solution - it is the players positioning and movement and passing that is the problem DH - it is not quick enough or accurate enough nor is their enough movement in any of the formations we have played since Skacel-Hartley-Jankauskas combination - and that is they key - thesame level of movement and combination those 3 had simply isn't there and needs to be re-learned and recreated.