VAR and politics

[Ricardo Quaresma]

4 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Not true, as far as I am aware and from what I have read.

 

Here is one example of a rescinded yellow card:

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/shaw-booked-manchester-united-var-19614790

 

Also, from: https://www.cpfc.co.uk/news/club/neil-swarbrick-answers-your-questions-on-var/

 

If there is a second bookable offence for simulation, will the decision go to VAR before a sending off?

If the simulation is in the penalty area, it will go to VAR because it relates to a penalty decision. If the referee decides there has been simulation in the penalty area, VAR will review it and will either say: ‘yes, check complete. You’re right, referee, carry on with the second yellow card for simulation,’ or they’ll say: ‘no, there’s clear contact.’ If the decision does get overturned for a clear and obvious error by the referee, the yellow card will get rescinded.

 

Only time I've seen a yellow rescinded during a match was for mistaken identity

 

It's been a real problem communicating to the crowd, who actually received a yellow, but, maybe this was recently changed

 

We are shown on screens now, but does the ref report this, or the guy operating the screen etc?

[graygo]

50 minutes ago, kingantti1874 said:

should have been a free kick well before any discussion of a pen.  But 100% Robson is right.

 

there other way around and it’s a pen 

 

The rule is that if a foul starts outside the box but continues into the box then a penalty should be given. That is what should have happened, thankfully it didn't.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

4 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Not true, as far as I am aware and from what I have read.

 

Here is one example of a rescinded yellow card:

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/shaw-booked-manchester-united-var-19614790

 

Also, from: https://www.cpfc.co.uk/news/club/neil-swarbrick-answers-your-questions-on-var/

 

If there is a second bookable offence for simulation, will the decision go to VAR before a sending off?

If the simulation is in the penalty area, it will go to VAR because it relates to a penalty decision. If the referee decides there has been simulation in the penalty area, VAR will review it and will either say: ‘yes, check complete. You’re right, referee, carry on with the second yellow card for simulation,’ or they’ll say: ‘no, there’s clear contact.’ If the decision does get overturned for a clear and obvious error by the referee, the yellow card will get rescinded.

 

Also, bud, I wasn't referring to a VAR scenario either

 

(Sorry for 2nd quote, too late to edit 1st one)

[Pasquale for King]

6 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Only time I've seen a yellow rescinded during a match was for mistaken identity

 

It's been a real problem communicating to the crowd, who actually received a yellow, but, maybe this was recently changed

 

We are shown on screens now, but does the ref report this, or the guy operating the screen etc?

There was a game in Germany recently where the ref booked a guy on two separate occasions for diving and had to rescind them after VAR showed he was fouled. 
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12838718/amine-adli-leverkusen-forward-booked-twice-for-simulation-and-has-both-overturned-for-penalties#

[Ricardo Quaresma]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

There was a game in Germany recently where the ref booked a guy on two separate occasions for diving and had to rescind them after VAR showed he was fouled. 
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/12838718/amine-adli-leverkusen-forward-booked-twice-for-simulation-and-has-both-overturned-for-penalties#

 

Yeah, I wasn't referring to VAR situations (see post before yours)

 

Is there even rules for VAR published?

 

Let's have them if anyone has them 😄

[PortyBeach]

On 08/05/2023 at 10:34, wavydavy said:

 

Did you see Goldson hauling Duke down on the edge of the penalty box and no review. In the same game Cantwell pushed Scales with two hands full on in the chest causing him to fall over and the ref gives them both a yellow card without any review from VAR otherwise the alternative was a straight red for Cantwell.

 

Yes we have VAR but we still have the same bias from those reviewing the game from their safe little boxes hidden from view.

As others have said, it’s not implausible to suggest that there was politics at work here. 
The SFA would have been terrified of the potential for disorder at Ibrox if Celtic clinched the title there. The recent bottle-throwing incidents where Celtic staff and players were targeted would likely have been repeated and more.

I suspect Collum was expected to seize any opportunity to intervene to reduce Hearts’ chances of causing an upset and did just that.

As you say, the contrast with the situation at Ibrox was stark.

[The Treasurer]

3 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Yeah, I wasn't referring to VAR situations (see post before yours)

 

Is there even rules for VAR published?

 

Let's have them if anyone has them 😄

Of course there are rules.

Give the OF everything, give the rest F all

 

[TexasAndy]

16 hours ago, bairdy said:

Excellent post.

I've said this before about 'of' managers, they're the easiest jobs in Scotland. Practically anybody who has an interest in football could manage these two clubs.

The praise they get from their adoring friends in the media is really quite embarrassing. 

Correct.  Ironically all this fawning over Ange is actually an insult to the memory of Stein.  Stein won europe's top prize with a team of 11 scots.  Ange can't get past the qualifiers with a team of overpaid foreigners.  

[Ricardo Quaresma]

1 hour ago, The Treasurer said:

Of course there are rules.

Give the OF everything, give the rest F all

 

 

Apart from penalties not awarded against, are you sure that includes rangers?

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, PortyBeach said:

As others have said, it’s not implausible to suggest that there was politics at work here. 
The SFA would have been terrified of the potential for disorder at Ibrox if Celtic clinched the title there. The recent bottle-throwing incidents where Celtic staff and players were targeted would likely have been repeated and more.

I suspect Collum was expected to seize any opportunity to intervene to reduce Hearts’ chances of causing an upset and did just that.

As you say, the contrast with the situation at Ibrox was stark.

Hes so far away from the actual incident but has a clear view as does VAR, Aberdeen hard done by there. 

[The Treasurer]

2 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Apart from penalties not awarded against, are you sure that includes rangers?

When the media say that these things "even themselves out during the season", what they really mean is that both arse cheeks get the same amount of dodgy decisions in their favour as each other 

[Pasquale for King]

8 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Yeah, I wasn't referring to VAR situations (see post before yours)

 

Is there even rules for VAR published?

 

Let's have them if anyone has them 😄

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/video-assistant-referee-var-qa/

 

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/what-are-the-var-rules-in-scotland-where-it-can-and-cannot-intervene-3887674

[Ricardo Quaresma]

2 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

When the media say that these things "even themselves out during the season", what they really mean is that both arse cheeks get the same amount of dodgy decisions in their favour as each other 

 

I think rangers are toiling, seeing as they have only 2 or 3 refs that like them

 

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/video-assistant-referee-var-qa/

 

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/what-are-the-var-rules-in-scotland-where-it-can-and-cannot-intervene-3887674

 

Cheers 👍

[PortyBeach]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Hes so far away from the actual incident but has a clear view as does VAR, Aberdeen hard done by there. 

Absolutely. But I think Beaton was the ref, so enough said.

Was this the same Rangers player? 😊

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, PortyBeach said:

Absolutely. But I think Beaton was the ref, so enough said.

Was this the same Rangers player? 😊

Nah thats Roofe, they were raging he was sent off 🤦🏽. 

[PortyBeach]

41 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Nah thats Roofe, they were raging he was sent off 🤦🏽. 

🤣

[John Findlay]

The playing field in Scotland is as level as the old slope at Easter Road.

At the Dunbar Road end(the top of the slope) are Celtic and Sevco. At the Albion Road end(the bottom of the slope), are the rest of us.

[DETTY29]

4 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Hes so far away from the actual incident but has a clear view as does VAR, Aberdeen hard done by there. 

He was excused by the Get Involved Referee podcast as too far away to make a decision even though they said everyone else in the ground could see the challenge as a penaty.

 

He may be far away but he has a clear view and better than 000s in the stadium.

 

Roache and Conroy despite sticking up for us this week are no more trustworthy than any of the rest of them.

Edited May 10, 2023 by DETTY29

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

He was excused by the Get Involved Referee podcast as too far away to make a decision even though they said everyone else in the ground could see the challenge as a penaty.

 

He may be far away but he has a clear view and better than 000s in the stadium.

 

Roache and Conroy despite sticking up for us this week are no more trustworthy than any of the rest of them.

They surely should be asking why he was so far away and as you say it was still clear, then VAR doesn’t get involved unlike our game. 

[Footballfirst]

5 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/video-assistant-referee-var-qa/

 

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/what-are-the-var-rules-in-scotland-where-it-can-and-cannot-intervene-3887674

Also the IFAB VAR protocols.

 

https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/video-assistant-referee-var-protocol/#principles

[John Findlay]

46 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

They surely should be asking why he was so far away and as you say it was still clear, then VAR doesn’t get involved unlike our game. 

They did qualify this to far away by stating the Aberdeen player did hoof it up the pitch nearly 70yds. Quite correctly he is relying on his Linesman mainstand side at Ibrox whose half it was to let him know a foul had been committed and also an occasion for VAR to get involved.

Edited May 10, 2023 by John Findlay

[part_time_jambo]

On 08/05/2023 at 09:41, been here before said:

 

But thats nothing at all like what really happens.

Don't spoil a good rant.

[Pasquale for King]

23 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

They did qualify this to far away by stating the Aberdeen player did hoof it up the pitch nearly 70yds. Quite correctly he is relying on his Linesman mainstand side at Ibrox whose half it was to let him know a foul had been committed and also an occasion for VAR to get involved.

Cool, I haven’t watched the highlights. 

[Ian Black 8]

On 08/05/2023 at 13:40, jonesy said:

As an aside, Ian: Do you feel you got more leeway from refs with your style when wearing a Rangers shirt compared to Hearts or Inverness?

Hard to write an answer in depth but when I played against Rangers you’d get booked by your 2nd tackle even if the 1st one was minimal. When playing for Rangers could easily make 2 rough tackles and possibly booked on the 3rd. So aye it defo felt like more leeway don’t know if refs feel it’s easier to make decisions against smaller clubs as the backlash isn’t as significant 👍

Edited May 10, 2023 by Ian Black 8

[i wish jj was my dad]

It's obvious refs find it easier to give decisions against 'smaller' clubs than the OF because of the backlash. Then you get the likes of Beaton and Collum who positively thrive upon giving controversial decisions in their favour. 

[Ian Black 8]

Again today Peter Haring’s sending off was a yellow at most for me…

if John Lundstram’s red card vs Hibs can be overturned then Hearts need to appeal this asap

[151]

VAR is a waste of time. 

 

It was pretty obvious to most that it was just going to be the same useless corrupt officials just watching it on a monitor instead.

 

On a side note, did anyone just watch MoTD and see Andersen basically punch Lerma on the nose? His nose was broken and VAR did nothing. 

[HMFC01]

4 hours ago, Ian Black 8 said:

Again today Peter Haring’s sending off was a yellow at most for me…

if John Lundstram’s red card vs Hibs can be overturned then Hearts need to appeal this asap

 

I can't think of a directly similar example.   I know they are different angles. The Lundstram challenge from behind.   Haring coming from the side.   Lunstram  raking  his  studs  with intent to foul, below the knee line  ☺.   Haring with at least a yard in between him and the player he fouled before he made contact from the lunge.   I'd say Lunstram was more a red card for sure. 

 

"SERIOUS FOUL PLAY

A tackle or challenge that endangers the safety of an opponent or uses excessive force or brutality must be sanctioned as serious foul play.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force or endangers the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play."

 

Haring was definitely trying to block the player, he wasn't raking his studs or planting his studs.   Completely safe.   

 

There's probably plenty examples of serious foul play from St Mirren challenges to be fair.  

[Chaps]

Isn’t VAR costing 1.2M a season with clubs stumping up the cash.

 

We all knew how bad refs were in this country but this is well and trying showing up how bad.

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, Chaps said:

Isn’t VAR costing 1.2M a season with clubs stumping up the cash.

 

We all knew how bad refs were in this country but this is well and trying showing up how bad.

I think it highlights more inconsistencies as VAR gives then two shots to get it wrong. 😄

 

 

[DETTY29]

I understand many folk on here despise rugby and their TMO can come to baffling decisions too, but surely for potential red cards incidents,there has to be a group match officials decision.

 

Surely the referee, the VAR, 4th official and the nearest assist could get together review the incident and at least one of them say that while it was a lunge and reckless (booking) no excessive force and  get to the correct decision.

 

I'd suggest too, after the criticism of Collum, Walsh last week and VAR getting involved when there was no need, yesterday's VAR involving us would be very reticent to get involved.

Edited May 14, 2023 by DETTY29

[Ian Black 8]

@TheBigOWrote this regarding VAR / decisions 👍

[JamboAl]

On 14/05/2023 at 00:42, 151 said:

VAR is a waste of time. 

 

It was pretty obvious to most that it was just going to be the same useless corrupt officials just watching it on a monitor instead.

 

On a side note, did anyone just watch MoTD and see Andersen basically punch Lerma on the nose? His nose was broken and VAR did nothing. 

This

[OTT]

Clubs need to demand and drive change within the refereeing association. 

[Marvin]

On 10/05/2023 at 07:33, PortyBeach said:

As others have said, it’s not implausible to suggest that there was politics at work here. 
The SFA would have been terrified of the potential for disorder at Ibrox if Celtic clinched the title there. The recent bottle-throwing incidents where Celtic staff and players were targeted would likely have been repeated and more.

I suspect Collum was expected to seize any opportunity to intervene to reduce Hearts’ chances of causing an upset and did just that.

As you say, the contrast with the situation at Ibrox was stark.

 

Rangers could have easily locked celtic fans out like their brethren does to them (& everyone else). Celtic then could have the game shown to their own fans inside septic park. Therefore potential bother is significantly reduced (not guaranteed of course). But of course Collum had to steal the show.

[Pasquale for King]

On 14/05/2023 at 09:31, DETTY29 said:

I understand many folk on here despise rugby and their TMO can come to baffling decisions too, but surely for potential red cards incidents,there has to be a group match officials decision.

 

Surely the referee, the VAR, 4th official and the nearest assist could get together review the incident and at least one of them say that while it was a lunge and reckless (booking) no excessive force and  get to the correct decision.

 

I'd suggest too, after the criticism of Collum, Walsh last week and VAR getting involved when there was no need, yesterday's VAR involving us would be very reticent to get involved.

The system seems to work better, the refs dont seem reluctant to use it, seeing it as helping them where our refs think that its showing them up. 
The fact they stop the clock whilst they reach a conclusion helps also as they never seem to add the correct amount of time on at the end here. 

[Pasquale for King]

6 minutes ago, Marvin said:

 

Rangers could have easily locked celtic fans out like their brethren does to them (& everyone else). Celtic then could have the game shown to their own fans inside septic park. Therefore potential bother is significantly reduced (not guaranteed of course). But of course Collum had to steal the show.

They did lock them out there was no away fans there. 

[DETTY29]

9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

The system seems to work better, the refs dont seem reluctant to use it, seeing it as helping them where our refs think that its showing them up. 
The fact they stop the clock whilst they reach a conclusion helps also as they never seem to add the correct amount of time on at the end here. 

VAR is here to stay so we beec to make it work as best as possible.

 

If that means stopping the clock for VAR and injuries and the games takes longer,  then so be it.

[avhudtheteeshirt]

3 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

VAR is here to stay so we beec to make it work as best as possible.

 

If that means stopping the clock for VAR and injuries and the games takes longer,  then so be it.

American Football here we come!!!

Play stopped for anything, but at least you hear from the ref why the foul was called!!!

[PortyBeach]

5 hours ago, Marvin said:

 

Rangers could have easily locked celtic fans out like their brethren does to them (& everyone else). Celtic then could have the game shown to their own fans inside septic park. Therefore potential bother is significantly reduced (not guaranteed of course). But of course Collum had to steal the show.

True. But I’m not sure the absence of Celtic fans would ensure there was no trouble.

As you say, Collum helped!

[Pasquale for King]

6 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

VAR is here to stay so we beec to make it work as best as possible.

 

If that means stopping the clock for VAR and injuries and the games takes longer,  then so be it.

Absolutely, time wasting seems to be getting worse every season.
Rugby has adapted to have so many subs and football would too.