VAR and politics

[ri Alban]

It we had var in 2019 , we'd have won the cup.

[Pasquale for King]

8 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

I would like to see stats, for each referee, when on field decisions have been overturned following the intervention of the VAR. It may provide a good measure of how well or badly the referees are performing in terms of getting big decisions wrong.

Collum seems to get a lot wrong, you wouldn’t put it past any of them to even out scores against others who have made them review their own gaffes. 

[JimmyCant]

7 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Our record against R and C would be much better.

Are you serious given what happened yesterday?

[Marvin]

2 hours ago, indianajones said:

I like VAR but it's shite when it's applied in cases like yesterday.

 

It wasn't clear and obvious. It was even debatable if it was a goal scoring opportunity. 

 

 

 

Thats the thing that pisses me off Indy. It was not a scoring opportunity. It was a yellow card however that Walsh correctly flashed. Fwiw I like VAR but the idiots who run it are just as corrupt as the man in the middle. 

To be the devil's advocate, there has been a fair few horrendous VAR decisions down in England too. 

[kila]

2 minutes ago, Marvin said:

Thats the thing that pisses me off Indy. It was not a scoring opportunity. It was a yellow card however that Walsh correctly flashed. Fwiw I like VAR but the idiots who run it are just as corrupt as the man in the middle. 

To be the devil's advocate, there has been a fair few horrendous VAR decisions down in England too. 

 

But does the EPL's horrendous VAR decisions benefit just a few clubs, or is it everyone gets their fair share of these decisions?

 

[Marvin]

1 minute ago, kila said:

 

But does the EPL's horrendous VAR decisions benefit just a few clubs, or is it everyone gets their fair share of these decisions?

 

 

Yeah thats a point. It seems to balance its self out down here. 

[JamboAl]

9 minutes ago, Marvin said:

 

Yeah thats a point. It seems to balance its self out down here. 

Probably because the English refs don't all come from one small pocket of the country.

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

 

I get what your saying, players have to adapt. Got no issue with the game moving forwards.

 

Trouble is, watch an Old Firm game and they kick lumps out of each other and nothing is done because the referee & VAR "play the occasion".

 

Cochrane yesterday wouldn't have got Red carded in an Old Firm game, he wouldn't have got carded if he was wearing Blue or a Hooped shirt. I don't even think he gets carded if Celtic where 3 nil up.

 

I thought the players gave everything yesterday and in the face of that disgusting decision they get a few plus marks again.

 

There is little point in trying to compete with either of the Old Firm anymore. Yesterday just highlights the inconsistency and how 2 clubs are treated completely different to the rest.

Get involved referee podcast again congratulating Don Robertson for not carding players he may have in other games, 'because he has to, to keep an OF game in check'

 

Sorry Des Roache, Steve Conroy, that's cheating every other club, consciously or not.

 

 

[My half sister]

Why don't we use foreign refs to do VAR, they can do it from their own country. The guys we used when our refs went on strike, were far better than our refs!

[gordon simpson]

2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

Michael Stewart has just posted stats on penalties conceded in the SPFL this season

 

Aberdeen 12

Hibs 11

St Mirren 11

Livingston 9

Celtic 7

Hearts 7

Kilmarnock 6

Dundee United 5

Motherwell 4

Ross Co 3

St Johnstone 3

Rangers 0

 

The accepted explanation for the distribution of penalties is that teams that dominate possession tend to be awarded most penalties and concede fewest.

 

Isn't it odd to see that the top six teams, who you would expect to dominate possession, have actually conceded most penalties, barring one notable but unsurprising exception, of course. 

Goldson on Duk shows why Rangers manage to have no penalties against them 

[DETTY29]

My solution.

 

One game on a Friday, 2 Saturday, 2 Sunday, one Monday.

 

Crawford Allan is the full time VAR for every game.

 

Should at least get a form of consistency.

 

I jest.

[Jambo in Bathgate]

3 hours ago, ShortmanRossco said:

It seemed that way but technically that's not supposed to be how it works. They'll not do it but Jesus there needs to be greater transparency between the conversations referee's are having with the VAR officials. That's what happens in rugby and that was the template for VAR was it not?

There’s talk in England that fans will hear the conversation between the ref and var observer next season. 

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, Jambo in Bathgate said:

There’s talk in England that fans will hear the conversation between the ref and var observer next season. 

They'll not do that in the SPL as the weegie accents will give the show away.

[DesertDawg]

8 hours ago, indianajones said:

I like VAR but it's shite when it's applied in cases like yesterday.

 

It wasn't clear and obvious. It was even debatable if it was a goal scoring opportunity. 

 

 

As we all knew would happen.....it's not the VAR system....it's the application of it by these useless, incompetent and corrupt officials!

[John Findlay]

6 hours ago, kila said:

 

But does the EPL's horrendous VAR decisions benefit just a few clubs, or is it everyone gets their fair share of these decisions?

 

Man United the big beneficiares this season. Closely followed by Liverpool imho.

[redjambo]

9 hours ago, graygo said:

 

No it can't advise that a yellow card can be rescinded (unless mistaken identity) but it can advise it could be upgraded to a red.

So it's ok to yellow card someone wrongly.

 

Yes, but... the referee can change his decision to anything he wants to after reviewing the video. So for a yellow that VAR recommends he reviews in light of it very possibly being a red, he could actually decide on reviewing the video not to issue the yellow after all. Very unlikely he would do this, of course, but within the guidelines.

[Boof]

8 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

You are correct but Scales doesn’t get booked it was the other player who squared up to Cantwell. Rangers have had one penalty given against them in about 100 games yet still moan about VAR. 

 

Yet 3 penalties against them in their 6 "Champions" League defeats.

 

Of course, they're up against better quality opposition, but even so...the glaringness of the stats is overwhelming.

[kingantti1874]

Nothing wrong with VAR. The fact it is still being operated by cheats is the problem

[Bainy]

For me VAR should not be interfering here.  Refs made the a call and a right one but collum couldn't help himself but poke his nose in. 

 

It should be used for penalties and checking offsides at goals. 

[graygo]

18 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Yes, but... the referee can change his decision to anything he wants to after reviewing the video. So for a yellow that VAR recommends he reviews in light of it very possibly being a red, he could actually decide on reviewing the video not to issue the yellow after all. Very unlikely he would do this, of course, but within the guidelines.

 

Yes and I'm sure also if the referee issues no card VAR can step in and say check for a red card and the referee can decide that a yellow should be issued. That scenario would be admitting to a total clusterfeck by the officials but again, within the guidelines.

[Pasquale for King]

41 minutes ago, Boof said:

 

Yet 3 penalties against them in their 6 "Champions" League defeats.

 

Of course, they're up against better quality opposition, but even so...the glaringness of the stats is overwhelming.

Absolutely, I loved every minute of both their feeble attempts to do anything in the CL. 

[davemclaren]

4 hours ago, Bainy said:

For me VAR should not be interfering here.  Refs made the a call and a right one but collum couldn't help himself but poke his nose in. 

 

It should be used for penalties and checking offsides at goals. 

Thankfully it wasn't there in 1998. 

[Ricardo Quaresma]

16 hours ago, busbyfth said:

And we wouldnt have got Susos penalty 😱😜 

 

That was a legitimate penalty

 

15 hours ago, Worthing Jambo said:

Hugh Dallas even came out and said they referee OF games differently!

it is called corruption.

It is so ingrained into their mentality that they can’t see what the rest of us see.

Just as well the likes of Dallas aren’t around any longer, oh wait, why don’t we complain to UEFA, I’m sure their referee management are fine upstanding folk!🙄

 

mhank fans are completely oblivious or like to convince others that they get no help from officials domestically

 

Never heard any admit that decisions in their favour were wrong

 

Convinced that they see what they want because they are stupid or ignorant or both

 

15 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Agreed but Clark was nowhere near out far enough, he was stuck to his line far top often especially the goals, when you need the GK to be more of a sweeper against them In particular.

 

Think Zander could and should have rushed out

 

15 hours ago, kila said:

Also what was with that shot in the first half where Celtic were clearly offside, linesman plays on as they are told to do now, the Celtic boy is by the byline, takes a shot and Clark pans it out.

 

CORNER TO CELTIC

 

****ing joke, should've been a free kick to us. Almost as if the linesman forgot or... was bent!

 

Was that the shot from a narrow angle?

 

15 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Collum seems to get a lot wrong, you wouldn’t put it past any of them to even out scores against others who have made them review their own gaffes. 

 

Someone said they are backstabbing eachother; someone in the know; sure it eas posted on here

 

14 hours ago, Jambo in Bathgate said:

There’s talk in England that fans will hear the conversation between the ref and var observer next season. 

 

That would box the bar stewards up here in; what will they do to cheat after that?

 

8 hours ago, redjambo said:

Yes, but... the referee can change his decision to anything he wants to after reviewing the video. So for a yellow that VAR recommends he reviews in light of it very possibly being a red, he could actually decide on reviewing the video not to issue the yellow after all. Very unlikely he would do this, of course, but within the guidelines.

 

Ref can't rescind a yellow during the game

 

8 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

Nothing wrong with VAR. The fact it is still being operated by cheats is the problem

 

True

 

8 hours ago, Bainy said:

For me VAR should not be interfering here.  Refs made the a call and a right one but collum couldn't help himself but poke his nose in. 

 

It should be used for penalties and checking offsides at goals. 

 

We won't mind if they even it up by ******* the sheep out of 2 or 3 points; will they though?

 

 

 

-

Edited May 9, 2023 by Ricardo Quaresma

[colinmaroon]

17 hours ago, busbyfth said:

And we wouldnt have got Susos penalty 😱😜 

 

Jrrsey pulled outside box, kept going but his balance gone and feet tangled inside box which brought him down. 

 

[jamboozy]

16 hours ago, jonesy said:

Exactly. Modern football is a different sport to what anyone over 30ish grew up watching and learning how to play. 
 

As an aside, Ian: Do you feel you got more leeway from refs with your style when wearing a Rangers shirt compared to Hearts or Inverness?

Oooh, good question.👍

[haj]

If Cochrane was wearing green and white he wouldn’t have been sent off, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that. Even Chris Sutton says he the ref shat it and that’s saying something! Celtic would win the league with or without help from the SFA, but it’s insane that we just have to sit here, pay our money and accept one-sided officiating in the name of not upsetting the angry folks from the west coast. 

[Pasquale for King]

7 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

That was a legitimate penalty

 

 

mhank fans are completely oblivious or like to convince others that they get no help from officials domestically

 

Never heard any admit that decisions in their favour were wrong

 

Convinced that they see what they want because they are stupid or ignorant or both

 

 

Think Zander could and should have rushed out

 

 

Was that the shot from a narrow angle?

 

 

Someone said they are backstabbing eachother; someone in the know; sure it eas posted on here

 

 

That would box the bar stewards up here in; what will they do to cheat after that?

 

 

Ref can't rescind a yellow during the game

 

 

True

 

 

We won't mind if they even it up by ******* the sheep out of 2 or 3 points; will they though?

 

 

 

-

Agree with all of that, we would want a red card if it was Ginnelly running through.
I think Clark has lost a bit of confidence since the Kilmarnock horror show and needs to regain his mojo re coming of his line. 
 

[Pasquale for King]

21 hours ago, jonesy said:

Exactly. Modern football is a different sport to what anyone over 30ish grew up watching and learning how to play. 
 

As an aside, Ian: Do you feel you got more leeway from refs with your style when wearing a Rangers shirt compared to Hearts or Inverness?

Spot on. 
Not sure if he will answer but I remember Walter Kidd saying that Alex MacDonald noticed the difference when he played for us. 

[JamboAl]

21 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

My solution.

 

One game on a Friday, 2 Saturday, 2 Sunday, one Monday.

 

Crawford Allan is the full time VAR for every game.

 

Should at least get a form of consistency.

 

I jest.

My solution

There should not be a Glasgow ref on the pitch, nor a Glasgow ref on VAR, when a Glasgow team is involved.  That is not sporting integrity.

Wee Willie got injured in a warm up prior to a Rangers game and Don Robertson (Glasow) took over meaning the latter is unlikely to be given a Rangers game so soon.  Now, who is available for the OF derby.  Oh yes, Wee Wiilie should now be available.

[JamboAl]

17 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

My solution

There should not be a Glasgow ref on the pitch, nor a Glasgow ref on VAR, when a Glasgow team is involved.  That is not sporting integrity.

Wee Willie got injured in a warm up prior to a Rangers game and Don Robertson (Glasow) took over meaning the latter is unlikely to be given a Rangers game so soon.  Now, who is available for the OF derby.  Oh yes, Wee Wiilie should now be available.

I got that wrong.

It must be Rangers turn as Steven McLean is the ref and his brother played for Rangers

[busbyfth]

6 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

Jrrsey pulled outside box, kept going but his balance gone and feet tangled inside box which brought him down. 

 

hahahaha even with my maroon glasses on - nah (but n0 one in that ground was happier than me when it was given) 

[busbyfth]

4 hours ago, haj said:

If Cochrane was wearing green and white he wouldn’t have been sent off, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that. Even Chris Sutton says he the ref shat it and that’s saying something! Celtic would win the league with or without help from the SFA, but it’s insane that we just have to sit here, pay our money and accept one-sided officiating in the name of not upsetting the angry folks from the west coast. 

Don't forget that years ago, many referees who actually admitted (on the QT) to favouring Cel or Ran in games, and as it was widely known in Glasgow, drank for free if they went to certain pubs. Two refs actually were daft enough to admit this to Bob Crampsie (remember that name) and said that for many years after retiring they never put their hands in their pockets (but would also never dare to go into pubs of opposing persuasions) when he wrote his book a few years back. 😱😤

[busbyfth]

6 hours ago, colinmaroon said:

 

Jrrsey pulled outside box, kept going but his balance gone and feet tangled inside box which brought him down. 

 

Just watched the replay again though,as I reckoned that if advantage was given then if the secondary foul was made in the box then you were correct......but nope - the replay shows that Suso clips his OWN heel to go down and it was just outside the box. hahahaha that must have pissed those bar stewards off even more !!!

[redjambo]

8 hours ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Ref can't rescind a yellow during the game

-

 

Not true, as far as I am aware and from what I have read.

 

Here is one example of a rescinded yellow card:

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/shaw-booked-manchester-united-var-19614790

 

Also, from: https://www.cpfc.co.uk/news/club/neil-swarbrick-answers-your-questions-on-var/

 

If there is a second bookable offence for simulation, will the decision go to VAR before a sending off?

If the simulation is in the penalty area, it will go to VAR because it relates to a penalty decision. If the referee decides there has been simulation in the penalty area, VAR will review it and will either say: ‘yes, check complete. You’re right, referee, carry on with the second yellow card for simulation,’ or they’ll say: ‘no, there’s clear contact.’ If the decision does get overturned for a clear and obvious error by the referee, the yellow card will get rescinded.

[DETTY29]

50 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

My solution

There should not be a Glasgow ref on the pitch, nor a Glasgow ref on VAR, when a Glasgow team is involved.  That is not sporting integrity.

Wee Willie got injured in a warm up prior to a Rangers game and Don Robertson (Glasow) took over meaning the latter is unlikely to be given a Rangers game so soon.  Now, who is available for the OF derby.  Oh yes, Wee Wiilie should now be available.

Crawford Allan is from Edinburgh (won't say where) and has no supporting allegiances to either of the OF, or WoS clubs.

[RENE]

Does anyone know if a ref in Scotland, has NOT changed his mind once asked to go to the monitor.

 

 

 

 

 

[JamboAl]

8 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Crawford Allan is from Edinburgh (won't say where) and has no supporting allegiances to either of the OF, or WoS clubs.

I am well aware of that but he has not managed to change the obvious bias in promoting weegie refs unless by coincidence the refs from Dundee, Kirkcaldy, Edinburgh, Aberdeen etc are all sub standard in the SFA's eyes.

[escobri]

11 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Not true, as far as I am aware and from what I have read.

 

Here is one example of a rescinded yellow card:

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/shaw-booked-manchester-united-var-19614790

 

Also, from: https://www.cpfc.co.uk/news/club/neil-swarbrick-answers-your-questions-on-var/

 

If there is a second bookable offence for simulation, will the decision go to VAR before a sending off?

If the simulation is in the penalty area, it will go to VAR because it relates to a penalty decision. If the referee decides there has been simulation in the penalty area, VAR will review it and will either say: ‘yes, check complete. You’re right, referee, carry on with the second yellow card for simulation,’ or they’ll say: ‘no, there’s clear contact.’ If the decision does get overturned for a clear and obvious error by the referee, the yellow card will get rescinded.

In a separate incident at the weekend xhaka(the basel one) had a second yellow rescinded, unfortunately for him the ref changed it to a straight red. 

[Jambo61]

5 hours ago, haj said:

If Cochrane was wearing green and white he wouldn’t have been sent off, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind about that. Even Chris Sutton says he the ref shat it and that’s saying something! Celtic would win the league with or without help from the SFA, but it’s insane that we just have to sit here, pay our money and accept one-sided officiating in the name of not upsetting the angry folks from the west coast. 

They had 2 similar fouls and no cards!

[Chaps]

21 minutes ago, RENE said:

Does anyone know if a ref in Scotland, has NOT changed his mind once asked to go to the monitor.

 

 

 

 

 

Every time it’s went to VAR the decision has been changed apart from on 1 occasion
 

The ref that day who didn’t change their decision yup you guessed it…..Willie ****ing Collum.

[j1964m]

Var missed this as well not even a foul Rangers v Aberdeen

 

 

[j1964m]

 

[tian447]

23 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Get involved referee podcast again congratulating Don Robertson for not carding players he may have in other games, 'because he has to, to keep an OF game in check'

 

Sorry Des Roache, Steve Conroy, that's cheating every other club, consciously or not.

 

 

 

This constantly winds me up. 

 

It's the same game, and the same rules. Why do they get treated differently, because the game may be ruined? 

 

Why doesn't sending off a Hearts player for a nothing challenge with half the game still to play matter as much when it comes to keeping a game in check?  Why were yellow cards not dished out in equal proportions to both sets of players for similar challenges. 

 

The lot of them are corrupt, Weegie *******s who apply the rules rigorously to 10 teams in the league, and make up their own ones for the other 2. 

 

I hope they all go on strike again. That was the best refereeing we've ever had in Scotland. 

[Sherbet]

12 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Thankfully it wasn't there in 1998. 

Wish it had been at dens in 86.

Blatant penalty

[Cruyff]

Has there ever been a team that's gone almost two seasons without conceding a penalty? 

[davemclaren]

22 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

Wish it had been at dens in 86.

Blatant penalty

True. 

[Hansel]

35 minutes ago, j1964m said:

 

Duk should've stayed down but tried to get up and play on. Wouldn’t have mattered though because Rangers

[RENE]

1 hour ago, Chaps said:

Every time it’s went to VAR the decision has been changed apart from on 1 occasion
 

The ref that day who didn’t change their decision yup you guessed it…..Willie ****ing Collum.

Thanks for that Chaps

[bairdy]

On 08/05/2023 at 11:39, TheBigO said:

Thats the bit that KILLS me. They dont need the help, they have absolutely every advantage. Theyd maybe get 95 points instead 105. Maybe theyd still get 105. Abd tgeir fans celebrate beating us, Hibs, Killie, Ross Co etc like theyve achieved something

 

I think Ange is prob a good manager actually but all this achievement stuff. Really? C Mcgregor said something like how amazing it is that it only really took them 6 weeks to grasp Anges methods and it rakes some teams months and years to intro new styles. Oh wow guys! Well done guys! You managed to introduce a new style ovet six weeks playing guys on 5% of your salaries!!! What a bunch of heros! Honestly, hats off.

Excellent post.

I've said this before about 'of' managers, they're the easiest jobs in Scotland. Practically anybody who has an interest in football could manage these two clubs.

The praise they get from their adoring friends in the media is really quite embarrassing. 

[kingantti1874]

2 hours ago, j1964m said:

 

should have been a free kick well before any discussion of a pen.  But 100% Robson is right.

 

there other way around and it’s a pen