Well done Willie Collum

[Bozi]

51 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Unfortunately that still suggests the ball didn't cross the line.

That's so far over the line

[SectionDJambo]

5 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Unfortunately that still suggests the ball didn't cross the line.

Who is stopping it going further over the goal line before being cleared?

[Jambo in Japan]

Perspective is everything, and this is the go-to example as to why

[Wee Mikey]

1 hour ago, Jambo in Japan said:

Perspective is everything, and this is the go-to example as to why

 

Except that your two stills cannae explain how the defender miraculously wrapped his foot around the ball after the 1st still in time to keep it in.

 

Could it be that your 2nd still is either when the ball is still travelling out of play or, alternatively, after the ball was out of play and that's it on its way back in?

 

Going by the change in the defender's arms, I'd guess the latter.

 

As we've seen with recent VAR stills, they can be misleading when picked out from moving images to try and prove whether a decision was correct.

 

I'd say that for your example a frame-by-frame analysis from the 2nd angle would be needed as that single pic proves nowt.

[DETTY29]

4 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

Who is stopping it going further over the goal line before being cleared?

That's valid of course if the ball was still moving and why isn't there other stills of the ball further over the line?

 

Anyway, dependent on where Collum was positioned, the call was likely more the linesman's anyway.

 

That said, was that also the game where Zaliukas was fouled inside the box with his back to goal, still landed inside the box and Collum gave a free kick and needed his linesman to over-rule him?

Edited May 11, 2023 by DETTY29

[Jambo in Japan]

2 hours ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

Except that your two stills cannae explain how the defender miraculously wrapped his foot around the ball after the 1st still in time to keep it in.

 

Could it be that your 2nd still is either when the ball is still travelling out of play or, alternatively, after the ball was out of play and that's it on its way back in?

 

Going by the change in the defender's arms, I'd guess the latter.

 

As we've seen with recent VAR stills, they can be misleading when picked out from moving images to try and prove whether a decision was correct.

 

I'd say that for your example a frame-by-frame analysis from the 2nd angle would be needed as that single pic proves nowt.

That's a fair point well put. Here's one YouTube video of it from one angle from 1:28 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6TJYwK204Y

 

You can also slow the playback speed right down to 0.25x

I'd say this angle is inconslusive as to whether the ball crossed the line or not, but to some degree answers the point you're trying to make re. the difference between the two stills.

 

I'd argue that at the point the ball leaves Mitoma's foot, his momentum carries him forward and his foot moves away from the ball, but only then does the ball move back into the pitch. The 2nd still is about as close as you're going to get to the exact moment his foot meets the ball. Sure, you can look at his arms, but what about the angle of his foot with respect to the ball? Could make a case that the 1st still is actually after the 2nd.

I accept the point you're making and I think it's perfectly fair to say it's still dubious as to whether VAR can overturn an on-field decision based on that avidence above, but that's then a different issue.
My point is that looking from behind, the ball appears to be well over the goal line. Viewed from in-line with the goal line, it looks quite different. Even if you say the ball has moved backwards in the second still compared to the first, if the second still was viewed from the angle of the first it would still appear to be well over the line.

Going back to Elliott's non-goal, I remember being incensed at it not being given on the day. Think i've even brought it up in another thread but never saw a still. From the still on this thread, the angle doesn't show convincingly enough that the ball crossed the line. Looking back, I can see why the officials hadn't seen enough to award the goal.

Doesn't change the fact the Collum is a rat.

[Diadora Van Basten]

I was looking at Willie Collum stats on London Hearts. They seem to stop at 2019 but it does show in the games that we have had him as ref the highest number were against Celtic 11 times then Hibs 8 times. We only had him against Rangers once.

[TheBigO]

Wasn't sure where to post this so dug this back up from a page or two down.  Something I've not seen mentioned overly is Cochrane's suspension on Saturday and how much it affected us.  It's full on, straight up, outrageous that we had to deal with a suspension to a key player.  Compounded as it was by missing Kingsley and Halliday needing to play.

 

Our issue on Saturday was safe, timid play.  Who more than Cochrane has taken more on board the new approach to playing positively and supporting the forwards?  He's a vital part of that type of play.  A real key player for us.  I may be laughed down for this.  Cochrane plays on Saturday, we win.

 

I genuinely believe that.

 

I watched the game on a stream at home.  Halliday was our biggest issue in the first half.  He was his usual, but his usual x 100.  He NEARLY made tackles.  He NEARLY won headers.  He NEARLY made passes.  I actually noted the time on one of them.  A St Mirren keeper kickout on 30 mins.  It travelled 60 yards in the air, Halliday was unchallenged for a header.  Misjudged it, skimmed off his head and went out for a throw near our 18 yard line. They're on us again.  He was like an amateur out there.

 

The number of times we worked a wee overload on the right, played it out to Halliday kind of inside left 10 yards in their half.  All he did every single time was pop it out to Barrie then fail to support him.  Alex would either drive with it, or pop it out and burst his arse to then run inverted our outside of Barrie to take players away from him or be played in.

 

We'd have won the game if Alex played.

 

This isn't digging Halliday out.  It's digging Collum and Walsh and the SFA out.  Not only did that red card cost us a potential 1 or 3 points against Celtic - we had them but these games change quickly.  We were well in it is all we can say.  But it ALSO cost us 2 points on Saturday.  Add just those points to our total.

 

You're looking at that one awful - properly scandalous - decision costing us millions.

 

I get the other factors.  We should go to St Mirren and win anyway.  I get that.  We shouldn't be lagging behind Aberdeen having had a 10 point advantage.  I 100% get THAT!

 

But in a season ravaged by injury, we've had some suspensions to deal with on top of that that have simply never been.  Then look at that thig Campbell at Hibs.  Yet again on Saturday, he gets away with a yellow for what is a clear red card.  The last derby at Easter Road, it's a nailed on red card, as was Caldwell's tackle on edge of box when on a yellow.  They wouldn't change that game - we were well beaten.  But they don't have the suspensions to deal with.  Aberdeen at the weekend - is that hand ball a red?!  Well, compared to the reds we've had in the last week or so, if the laws are being stretched to make things a red, it's as rouge as a scarlet red thing can be!

 

So bit of a novel here.  But that red card decision, made by Collum abusing VAR to advantage Celtic, has cost us dear.  But hey, all anyone looks at is Celtic lifting the trophy and oh aye, Hearts were a wee bit unlucky, the put up a fight for a wee while in that game, bless them.

 

It sickens me.

[TyphoonJambo]

23 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Wasn't sure where to post this so dug this back up from a page or two down.  Something I've not seen mentioned overly is Cochrane's suspension on Saturday and how much it affected us.  It's full on, straight up, outrageous that we had to deal with a suspension to a key player.  Compounded as it was by missing Kingsley and Halliday needing to play.

 

Our issue on Saturday was safe, timid play.  Who more than Cochrane has taken more on board the new approach to playing positively and supporting the forwards?  He's a vital part of that type of play.  A real key player for us.  I may be laughed down for this.  Cochrane plays on Saturday, we win.

 

I genuinely believe that.

 

I watched the game on a stream at home.  Halliday was our biggest issue in the first half.  He was his usual, but his usual x 100.  He NEARLY made tackles.  He NEARLY won headers.  He NEARLY made passes.  I actually noted the time on one of them.  A St Mirren keeper kickout on 30 mins.  It travelled 60 yards in the air, Halliday was unchallenged for a header.  Misjudged it, skimmed off his head and went out for a throw near our 18 yard line. They're on us again.  He was like an amateur out there.

 

The number of times we worked a wee overload on the right, played it out to Halliday kind of inside left 10 yards in their half.  All he did every single time was pop it out to Barrie then fail to support him.  Alex would either drive with it, or pop it out and burst his arse to then run inverted our outside of Barrie to take players away from him or be played in.

 

We'd have won the game if Alex played.

 

This isn't digging Halliday out.  It's digging Collum and Walsh and the SFA out.  Not only did that red card cost us a potential 1 or 3 points against Celtic - we had them but these games change quickly.  We were well in it is all we can say.  But it ALSO cost us 2 points on Saturday.  Add just those points to our total.

 

You're looking at that one awful - properly scandalous - decision costing us millions.

 

I get the other factors.  We should go to St Mirren and win anyway.  I get that.  We shouldn't be lagging behind Aberdeen having had a 10 point advantage.  I 100% get THAT!

 

But in a season ravaged by injury, we've had some suspensions to deal with on top of that that have simply never been.  Then look at that thig Campbell at Hibs.  Yet again on Saturday, he gets away with a yellow for what is a clear red card.  The last derby at Easter Road, it's a nailed on red card, as was Caldwell's tackle on edge of box when on a yellow.  They wouldn't change that game - we were well beaten.  But they don't have the suspensions to deal with.  Aberdeen at the weekend - is that hand ball a red?!  Well, compared to the reds we've had in the last week or so, if the laws are being stretched to make things a red, it's as rouge as a scarlet red thing can be!

 

So bit of a novel here.  But that red card decision, made by Collum abusing VAR to advantage Celtic, has cost us dear.  But hey, all anyone looks at is Celtic lifting the trophy and oh aye, Hearts were a wee bit unlucky, the put up a fight for a wee while in that game, bless them.

 

It sickens me.

Top post 

[Brick Tamland]

25 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Wasn't sure where to post this so dug this back up from a page or two down.  Something I've not seen mentioned overly is Cochrane's suspension on Saturday and how much it affected us.  It's full on, straight up, outrageous that we had to deal with a suspension to a key player.  Compounded as it was by missing Kingsley and Halliday needing to play.

 

Our issue on Saturday was safe, timid play.  Who more than Cochrane has taken more on board the new approach to playing positively and supporting the forwards?  He's a vital part of that type of play.  A real key player for us.  I may be laughed down for this.  Cochrane plays on Saturday, we win.

 

I genuinely believe that.

 

I watched the game on a stream at home.  Halliday was our biggest issue in the first half.  He was his usual, but his usual x 100.  He NEARLY made tackles.  He NEARLY won headers.  He NEARLY made passes.  I actually noted the time on one of them.  A St Mirren keeper kickout on 30 mins.  It travelled 60 yards in the air, Halliday was unchallenged for a header.  Misjudged it, skimmed off his head and went out for a throw near our 18 yard line. They're on us again.  He was like an amateur out there.

 

The number of times we worked a wee overload on the right, played it out to Halliday kind of inside left 10 yards in their half.  All he did every single time was pop it out to Barrie then fail to support him.  Alex would either drive with it, or pop it out and burst his arse to then run inverted our outside of Barrie to take players away from him or be played in.

 

We'd have won the game if Alex played.

 

This isn't digging Halliday out.  It's digging Collum and Walsh and the SFA out.  Not only did that red card cost us a potential 1 or 3 points against Celtic - we had them but these games change quickly.  We were well in it is all we can say.  But it ALSO cost us 2 points on Saturday.  Add just those points to our total.

 

You're looking at that one awful - properly scandalous - decision costing us millions.

 

I get the other factors.  We should go to St Mirren and win anyway.  I get that.  We shouldn't be lagging behind Aberdeen having had a 10 point advantage.  I 100% get THAT!

 

But in a season ravaged by injury, we've had some suspensions to deal with on top of that that have simply never been.  Then look at that thig Campbell at Hibs.  Yet again on Saturday, he gets away with a yellow for what is a clear red card.  The last derby at Easter Road, it's a nailed on red card, as was Caldwell's tackle on edge of box when on a yellow.  They wouldn't change that game - we were well beaten.  But they don't have the suspensions to deal with.  Aberdeen at the weekend - is that hand ball a red?!  Well, compared to the reds we've had in the last week or so, if the laws are being stretched to make things a red, it's as rouge as a scarlet red thing can be!

 

So bit of a novel here.  But that red card decision, made by Collum abusing VAR to advantage Celtic, has cost us dear.  But hey, all anyone looks at is Celtic lifting the trophy and oh aye, Hearts were a wee bit unlucky, the put up a fight for a wee while in that game, bless them.

 

It sickens me.

Great post which completely snuffs out the tired and lazy old myth that these decisions even themselves out over a season. 
Our game is rotten, it’s biased towards two clubs and two clubs only and any other clubs are just shrapnel to make up the numbers. 
The Scottish sports media are just as complicit as the bent refs and the SFA.  Our game is the best supported per head of population in the world yet we, the supporters, get shafted every season. 
I would love it if we gave the bigot twins zero tickets to improve our chances, with our fans as the twelfth man, against the 11 players and 4 officials who always side with the filth from Glasgow. 

Hearts and only Hearts 

[Brick Tamland]

37 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Wasn't sure where to post this so dug this back up from a page or two down.  Something I've not seen mentioned overly is Cochrane's suspension on Saturday and how much it affected us.  It's full on, straight up, outrageous that we had to deal with a suspension to a key player.  Compounded as it was by missing Kingsley and Halliday needing to play.

 

Our issue on Saturday was safe, timid play.  Who more than Cochrane has taken more on board the new approach to playing positively and supporting the forwards?  He's a vital part of that type of play.  A real key player for us.  I may be laughed down for this.  Cochrane plays on Saturday, we win.

 

I genuinely believe that.

 

I watched the game on a stream at home.  Halliday was our biggest issue in the first half.  He was his usual, but his usual x 100.  He NEARLY made tackles.  He NEARLY won headers.  He NEARLY made passes.  I actually noted the time on one of them.  A St Mirren keeper kickout on 30 mins.  It travelled 60 yards in the air, Halliday was unchallenged for a header.  Misjudged it, skimmed off his head and went out for a throw near our 18 yard line. They're on us again.  He was like an amateur out there.

 

The number of times we worked a wee overload on the right, played it out to Halliday kind of inside left 10 yards in their half.  All he did every single time was pop it out to Barrie then fail to support him.  Alex would either drive with it, or pop it out and burst his arse to then run inverted our outside of Barrie to take players away from him or be played in.

 

We'd have won the game if Alex played.

 

This isn't digging Halliday out.  It's digging Collum and Walsh and the SFA out.  Not only did that red card cost us a potential 1 or 3 points against Celtic - we had them but these games change quickly.  We were well in it is all we can say.  But it ALSO cost us 2 points on Saturday.  Add just those points to our total.

 

You're looking at that one awful - properly scandalous - decision costing us millions.

 

I get the other factors.  We should go to St Mirren and win anyway.  I get that.  We shouldn't be lagging behind Aberdeen having had a 10 point advantage.  I 100% get THAT!

 

But in a season ravaged by injury, we've had some suspensions to deal with on top of that that have simply never been.  Then look at that thig Campbell at Hibs.  Yet again on Saturday, he gets away with a yellow for what is a clear red card.  The last derby at Easter Road, it's a nailed on red card, as was Caldwell's tackle on edge of box when on a yellow.  They wouldn't change that game - we were well beaten.  But they don't have the suspensions to deal with.  Aberdeen at the weekend - is that hand ball a red?!  Well, compared to the reds we've had in the last week or so, if the laws are being stretched to make things a red, it's as rouge as a scarlet red thing can be!

 

So bit of a novel here.  But that red card decision, made by Collum abusing VAR to advantage Celtic, has cost us dear.  But hey, all anyone looks at is Celtic lifting the trophy and oh aye, Hearts were a wee bit unlucky, the put up a fight for a wee while in that game, bless them.

 

It sickens me.

Great post which completely snuffs out the tired and lazy old myth that these decisions even themselves out over a season. 
Our game is rotten, it’s biased towards two clubs and two clubs only and any other clubs are just shrapnel to make up the numbers. 
The Scottish sports media are just as complicit as the bent refs and the SFA.  Our game is the best supported per head of population in the world yet we, the supporters, get shafted every season. 
I would love it if we gave the bigot twins zero tickets to improve our chances, with our fans as the twelfth man, against the 11 players and 4 officials who always side with the filth from Glasgow. 

Hearts and only Hearts 

[TheBigO]

7 minutes ago, Brick Tamland said:

Great post which completely snuffs out the tired and lazy old myth that these decisions even themselves out over a season. 
Our game is rotten, it’s biased towards two clubs and two clubs only and any other clubs are just shrapnel to make up the numbers. 
The Scottish sports media are just as complicit as the bent refs and the SFA.  Our game is the best supported per head of population in the world yet we, the supporters, get shafted every season. 
I would love it if we gave the bigot twins zero tickets to improve our chances, with our fans as the twelfth man, against the 11 players and 4 officials who always side with the filth from Glasgow. 

Hearts and only Hearts 

Agreed! (but getting them both to 650 will do for starters.  I hope they get those tickets heavily caveated.  any more attempted forgeries, any more violence towards our players or staff, it'll very quickly be reduced to heehaw)

[TheBigO]

21 minutes ago, TypoonJambo said:

Top post 

Agreed