Neilson crisis meeting ( merged )

[Luckies1874]

1 minute ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

I'm too Intelligent to let what Hibs do or do not do  dictate any future direction of Hearts and our manager appointments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You don't think a league table ending with Hearts behind Hibs this year would dictate what Hearts then did with Neilson?!! 

  Aye very good. You are fooling nobody.  

[frankblack]

Just now, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

You don't think a league table ending with Hearts behind Hibs this year would dictate what Hearts then did with Neilson?!! 

  Aye very good. You are fooling nobody.  

 

3rd vs 4th probably wouldn't trigger Hearts to act.  Falling to 6th might.

[Rocky jamboa]

I wonder if Savage will have the responsibility for getting any new management team in. Our management recruitment under Budge has been chronic and lazy in the past. Cathro, Levein, stendel and Robbie twice. Really poor appointments. Stendel might have been OK if he'd had more time. Taking ages to eventually decide "the right person was right in front of us" - Levein 🙄 - then taking an age to bring Stendel in. 

 

I'd like to see us bring a foreign coach in. 

 

[Pasquale for King]

21 minutes ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Well the very first word in the post is “apparently” so make of that what you can.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/robbie-neilson-addresses-hearts-fans-anger-and-admits-its-not-good-enough-with-talks-planned-after-aberdeen-loss-4070244

[benny]

2 minutes ago, Rocky jamboa said:

I wonder if Savage will have the responsibility for getting any new management team in. Our management recruitment under Budge has been chronic and lazy in the past. Cathro, Levein, stendel and Robbie twice. Really poor appointments. Stendel might have been OK if he'd had more time. Taking ages to eventually decide "the right person was right in front of us" - Levein 🙄 - then taking an age to bring Stendel in. 

 

I'd like to see us bring a foreign coach in. 

 

Stendel could not get us off bottom of the league.

I would put him under the poor bracket.

Robbie has done okay so he should be safe for now unless we go on a Crystal Palace type of run in the coming weeks.

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Rocky jamboa said:

I wonder if Savage will have the responsibility for getting any new management team in. Our management recruitment under Budge has been chronic and lazy in the past. Cathro, Levein, stendel and Robbie twice. Really poor appointments. Stendel might have been OK if he'd had more time. Taking ages to eventually decide "the right person was right in front of us" - Levein 🙄 - then taking an age to bring Stendel in. 

 

I'd like to see us bring a foreign coach in. 

 

Hopefully, as long as they can tell the difference between them, he was along the corridor all along. 

[LochcarronJambo]

14 hours ago, OTT said:

He's the problem. 

 

1. Blatant favouritism, an out of form, unproductive Barrie McKay is getting into the team by default ahead of an inform Grant, an Aussie wonderkid that Savage worked his arse off to convince to come here, Forrest and Oda.

2. We're starting games too slowly - every single game we're on the back foot from the off. That is down to management. You cannot start games this passively ALL the time!!!

3. Recruitment in the winter window wasn't good enough and didn't enhance the team in the right ways (we needed an experienced defenders defender to replace Halkett. Hill is not that. 

4. The formation is murder. We're playing 3 CB's and still leaking goals whilst being overrun in midfield. Its causing Shankland to drop deep and act as an auxiliary midfielder losing his effectiveness in the final 3rd

5. Tactics are shit. Dominate possession with zero penetration? **** off Robbie. 

 

The team look stifled and over coached. Morale looks to be rock bottom and they don't look like they're even playing for each other, let alone Robbie. 

 

We need to just move to a 433 and get our wide players hitting the byline for Shanks in the middle. This will also give us a 3 man midfield which will give Snodgrass options, and perhaps allow him to play further forward where he's of most use. Something like:

 

Zander

Smith Sibbick Rowles Kingsley

Devlin Snodgrass

Grant

Kuol Shankland Gino

 

We don't have good enough midfielders to sacrifice 1 for another CB, Snodgrass is too old to cover ground, Devlin is poor in possession, Kio is slow, Grant isn't a tackler. Take the third man and actually have a balanced midfield. Devlin ends up with plenty of options so he's always got an outball, Snodgrass likewise, and we get use of Grants creativity. Kuol and Gino have pace to burn and could cause real problems for teams out wide and Shankland is one of the best finishers in the league. 

Good post

[jr ewing]

11 minutes ago, Rocky jamboa said:

I wonder if Savage will have the responsibility for getting any new management team in. Our management recruitment under Budge has been chronic and lazy in the past. Cathro, Levein, stendel and Robbie twice. Really poor appointments. Stendel might have been OK if he'd had more time. Taking ages to eventually decide "the right person was right in front of us" - Levein 🙄 - then taking an age to bring Stendel in. 

 

I'd like to see us bring a foreign coach in. 

 

Paulo ideal fit 👌 

[Herbert.]

5 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/robbie-neilson-addresses-hearts-fans-anger-and-admits-its-not-good-enough-with-talks-planned-after-aberdeen-loss-4070244

 

 

He's the one that needs spoken too, Playing guys out of position, A shite formation that we don't have the players for and this shite passing game game that gets us nowhere we seem to have adopted is our issue and that's down to him not the players, I get players have bad games and dips and form when they do they should be benched not put in everywhere to continue to regress.

[Pasquale for King]

14 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

3rd vs 4th probably wouldn't trigger Hearts to act.  Falling to 6th might.

If it meant losing out on European group stage money and the pressure from fans would mean they had to act. 

[Jambof3tornado]

14 hours ago, OTT said:

He's the problem. 

 

1. Blatant favouritism, an out of form, unproductive Barrie McKay is getting into the team by default ahead of an inform Grant, an Aussie wonderkid that Savage worked his arse off to convince to come here, Forrest and Oda.

2. We're starting games too slowly - every single game we're on the back foot from the off. That is down to management. You cannot start games this passively ALL the time!!!

3. Recruitment in the winter window wasn't good enough and didn't enhance the team in the right ways (we needed an experienced defenders defender to replace Halkett. Hill is not that. 

4. The formation is murder. We're playing 3 CB's and still leaking goals whilst being overrun in midfield. Its causing Shankland to drop deep and act as an auxiliary midfielder losing his effectiveness in the final 3rd

5. Tactics are shit. Dominate possession with zero penetration? **** off Robbie. 

 

The team look stifled and over coached. Morale looks to be rock bottom and they don't look like they're even playing for each other, let alone Robbie. 

 

We need to just move to a 433 and get our wide players hitting the byline for Shanks in the middle. This will also give us a 3 man midfield which will give Snodgrass options, and perhaps allow him to play further forward where he's of most use. Something like:

 

Zander

Smith Sibbick Rowles Kingsley

Devlin Snodgrass

Grant

Kuol Shankland Gino

 

We don't have good enough midfielders to sacrifice 1 for another CB, Snodgrass is too old to cover ground, Devlin is poor in possession, Kio is slow, Grant isn't a tackler. Take the third man and actually have a balanced midfield. Devlin ends up with plenty of options so he's always got an outball, Snodgrass likewise, and we get use of Grants creativity. Kuol and Gino have pace to burn and could cause real problems for teams out wide and Shankland is one of the best finishers in the league. 

Stifled and over coached. Neilson to a tee.

 

[jr ewing]

10 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/robbie-neilson-addresses-hearts-fans-anger-and-admits-its-not-good-enough-with-talks-planned-after-aberdeen-loss-4070244

He truly is clueless 😔 

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, Herbert. said:

 

 

He's the one that needs spoken too, Playing guys out of position, A shite formation that we don't have the players for and this shite passing game game that gets us nowhere we seem to have adopted is our issue and that's down to him not the players, I get players have bad games and dips and form when they do they should be benched not put in everywhere to continue to regress.

You only do that when you have to, against Rangers at home you could say every outfield player was out of their recognised position at one point. 

[Nerja Jambo]

3 minutes ago, benny said:

Stendel could not get us off bottom of the league.

I would put him under the poor bracket.

Robbie has done okay so he should be safe for now unless we go on a Crystal Palace type of run in the coming weeks.

Stendal inherited an utter shambles due to the fact Ann Budge took far to long to get rid of Levein. She then allowed Levein to wander around the Oriam and Tynecastle whilst Stendal was there. Stendal also had to wait until we negotiated with Barnsley to get his own assistants with him. By that time , time was running out. Stendal was also criticised for our defence, although the same system he operated at Barnsley where they had the best defensive record in the league. 

[jr ewing]

1 minute ago, Jambof3tornado said:

Stifled and over coached. Neilson to a tee.

 

His way or no way. 

[Rocky jamboa]

4 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Paulo ideal fit 👌 

I'd be keen on him too. Got his tactics spot on in the Beattie semi v celtic. 

[Herbert.]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

You only do that when you have to, against Rangers at home you could say every outfield player was out of their recognised position at one point. 

 

We've seen Gino and Forrest as wingbacks, Koul as a midfielder, Shankland spends more time in tracking back than anything, Robbie has a talented squad but hasn't got the ability to manage them.

[jr ewing]

1 minute ago, Rocky jamboa said:

I'd be keen on him too. Got his tactics spot on in the Beattie semi v celtic. 

Likeable man manager. 👨 

[Sertse]

9 minutes ago, benny said:

Stendel could not get us off bottom of the league.

I would put him under the poor bracket.

Robbie has done okay so he should be safe for now unless we go on a Crystal Palace type of run in the coming weeks.

I seriously don't want to turn this into a Stendel thread however what I will say is, he inherited an absolutely guff team and seemed to be getting a tune out of them when the league was halted. I don't think he was given a fair run, especially considering that he was sacked and found out via sky news or whatever it was. Nobody in the running of the club supported him.

The reason he was liked is because he called it as he saw it and got rid of the 'jobs for the boys' attitude which was suffocating the club.

His record since leaving us has been extremely poor though.

He was a very well intentioned manager and seemed like a nice enough guy. Unfortunately didn't make the grade.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Sertse said:

I seriously don't want to turn this into a Stendel thread however what I will say is, he inherited an absolutely guff team and seemed to be getting a tune out of them when the league was halted. I don't think he was given a fair run, especially considering that he was sacked and found out via sky news or whatever it was. Nobody in the running of the club supported him.

The reason he was liked is because he called it as he saw it and got rid of the 'jobs for the boys' attitude which was suffocating the club.

His record since leaving us has been extremely poor though.

He was a very well intentioned manager and seemed like a nice enough guy. Unfortunately didn't make the grade.

He get a pretty lousy tune out of the team that fateful last game at St Mirren it has to be said. 

[Sherbet]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

He get a pretty lousy tune out of the team that fateful last game at St Mirren it has to be said. 

a bit like yesterday|

 

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

He get a pretty lousy tune out of the team that fateful last game at St Mirren it has to be said. 

 

[Luckies1874]

9 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

3rd vs 4th probably wouldn't trigger Hearts to act.  Falling to 6th might.

 

 

If £3-5 million wasn't spunked up the wall from us having an 11 point lead I would tend to agree with you. Not because they would be correct to keep him but because they have history of indecision. But this is different. We would have blown an unbelievable opportunity to secure consecutive back to back group stage football, an open goal frankly given it was Rangers who offered us that opportunity and all we needed to do was finish above the rest off the dross! I don't think they would have any option but to bin him given the backlash. The same manager who gifted Hibs a Scottish Cup after over century then gifting them £3 million+ would be dead to any passionate Hearts fan.

[Drumjambo]

15 hours ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Robbie Neilson addresses Hearts fans' anger and admits "it's not good enough" with talks planned after Aberdeen loss | Edinburgh News (scotsman.com)

 

Robbie Neilson plans Hearts crisis meeting with players as he looks to solve form slump - Football Scotland

 

For me its quite simple - above change its to Im and then sack yourself Im sure we'd do better without you !!

 

Im guessing no one in the first team would play 343 out of choice Ironically he continued to play 4231 first time when we never had the players - Go Figure

[Pasquale for King]

4 minutes ago, Sertse said:

I seriously don't want to turn this into a Stendel thread however what I will say is, he inherited an absolutely guff team and seemed to be getting a tune out of them when the league was halted. I don't think he was given a fair run, especially considering that he was sacked and found out via sky news or whatever it was. Nobody in the running of the club supported him.

The reason he was liked is because he called it as he saw it and got rid of the 'jobs for the boys' attitude which was suffocating the club.

His record since leaving us has been extremely poor though.

He was a very well intentioned manager and seemed like a nice enough guy. Unfortunately didn't make the grade.

Absolutely, had that group of players for 3 months and had double the victories over Rangers at home than CL ever had and an away league win at ER that RN hasn’t managed yet. 
Wrong guy wrong time. 

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, Herbert. said:

 

We've seen Gino and Forrest as wingbacks, Koul as a midfielder, Shankland spends more time in tracking back than anything, Robbie has a talented squad but hasn't got the ability to manage them.

Shankland has played midfield and RWB, as did Cochrane/Kingsley v Rangers, Toby at RWB and CM, Halliday RWB and 10, Smith CM, Hill RB, Rowles LB, Snodgrass at DM, McKay midfield, Grant all over. Now and then to cover for injuries but not every game. CL did the same. McKay was 3 different positions yesterday, Ginnelly up top, RW then up top again. Desperate stuff. 

[frankblack]

23 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

If it meant losing out on European group stage money and the pressure from fans would mean they had to act. 

 

That wouldn't be good but not a sackable position on its own IMO.

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

11 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

If £3-5 million wasn't spunked up the wall from us having an 11 point lead I would tend to agree with you. Not because they would be correct to keep him but because they have history of indecision. But this is different. We would have blown an unbelievable opportunity to secure consecutive back to back group stage football, an open goal frankly given it was Rangers who offered us that opportunity and all we needed to do was finish above the rest off the dross! I don't think they would have any option but to bin him given the backlash. The same manager who gifted Hibs a Scottish Cup after over century then gifting them £3 million+ would be dead to any passionate Hearts fan.

🤦🏻🤪

[Pasquale for King]

20 minutes ago, Rocky jamboa said:

I'd be keen on him too. Got his tactics spot on in the Beattie semi v celtic. 

Good test of a manager and players when they play the uglies, the current batch havent shown much against them. 

[davemclaren]

14 minutes ago, Sherbet said:

a bit like yesterday|

 

 

Indeed. I'd argue that the St  Mirren game was more important though. 

[frankblack]

22 minutes ago, Rocky jamboa said:

I'd be keen on him too. Got his tactics spot on in the Beattie semi v celtic. 

 

But finished 5th in the league with mixed form.  If we hadn't won the cup he'd have been slaughtered on here.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

That wouldn't be good but not a sackable position on its own IMO.

Depends on what protests took place, remember ST sales were slow until CL eventually left, doubled from 5k to 10k after he left even with covid and demotion. We need to get better before they go on sale. 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

If Wee jinky Barrie starts the next game then I’ll change my poll vote. An 18 year old academy player doing nothing would be the same as we’re getting now from McKay

[Des Lynam]

Just now, frankblack said:

 

But finished 5th in the league with mixed form.  If we hadn't won the cup he'd have been slaughtered on here.

 

There was a bit of drama going on in the background though. 

[Pasquale for King]

2 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Indeed. I'd argue that the St  Mirren game was more important though. 

Fourth game in 11 days with an unfit squad.

[frankblack]

Just now, Pasquale for King said:

Depends on what protests took place, remember ST sales were slow until CL eventually left, doubled from 5k to 10k after he left even with covid and demotion. We need to get better before they go on sale. 

 

Given that we have a waiting list of around 3500 (IIRC), you're taking a gamble not renewing as you might not get to home games at all.

[Jambo in Bathgate]

24 minutes ago, Sertse said:

I seriously don't want to turn this into a Stendel thread however what I will say is, he inherited an absolutely guff team and seemed to be getting a tune out of them when the league was halted. I don't think he was given a fair run, especially considering that he was sacked and found out via sky news or whatever it was. Nobody in the running of the club supported him.

The reason he was liked is because he called it as he saw it and got rid of the 'jobs for the boys' attitude which was suffocating the club.

His record since leaving us has been extremely poor though.

He was a very well intentioned manager and seemed like a nice enough guy. Unfortunately didn't make the grade.

Yep he beat Rangers twice but couldn’t beat the teams that mattered. Left us at foot of table. 

[Dr Lager]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

That wouldn't be good but not a sackable position on its own IMO.

We finished 19 points ahead of hibs last season. To finish behind them this season given how shambolic they were a few weeks ago would be a real step back. Not because they are hibs just a real barometer of regression 

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, Des Lynam said:

 

There was a bit of drama going on in the background though. 

 

I take your point.  However we still had a stronger squad  than now, paying bigger wages.

 

I'd balance the Vlad issues at the time against our injury problems.

[frankblack]

Just now, Dr Lager said:

We finished 19 points ahead of hibs last season. To finish behind them this season given how shambolic they were a few weeks ago would be a real step back. Not because they are hibs just a real barometer of regression 

 

Are they finishing with more points than last season?

[Luckies1874]

1 minute ago, frankblack said:

 

Given that we have a waiting list of around 3500 (IIRC), you're taking a gamble not renewing as you might not get to home games at all.

The waiting list is a sound bite released to deflect. There is no danger 3500 people are waiting on season tickets. There are generally (derby aside) loads of tickets available on the Tocket Exchange. Additionally the ticket office have multiple reference numbers for many fans who are already ST holders. 

[martoon]

Call the meeting what you will but it has to happen and it has to involve more than just Neilson telling the players what's what.

 

He, too, has to be challenged about what is going wrong.

 

If he is coaching them well all week then why do performances not reflect it? What the hell is happening in the walk from the dressing room to the pitch.

 

If he isn't coaching them well then the problem is obvious.

 

I, and I suspect many others, now expect poor performances, punctuated by the odd 20 minutes every other game when we do get ourselves together. 

 

That's something that has to be addressed and I just don't believe Neilson can. He hasn't thus far and doesn't appear to be evolving or improving as a coach in any way.

 

Ms Budge will let him continue but even if we do hold on to third and clinch group stage, I'd still like a change.

 

The squad is a good one but it's far better than the management team.

 

That's a problem.

 

 

[Dr Lager]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Are they finishing with more points than last season?

They probably already have more points now than last season 

Edited March 19, 2023 by Dr Lager
Typo!

[PTBCAL]

I actually wonder if the Robbie lovers go to games? Certainly not away they can’t. 
 

How can you continue to defend the appalling football we are served in so many games. 
 

Neilson has the chance to push us away from the rest by finishing third - failure to do so with this squad and lead we had is a sackable offence and not debatable at all. 
 

 

[Rick Sanchez]

I wonder if they'll still be blasting the tunes in training or actually learning how to achieve a shot on target in the formation they've been coached in for years.

[davemclaren]

8 minutes ago, martoon said:

Call the meeting what you will but it has to happen and it has to involve more than just Neilson telling the players what's what.

 

He, too, has to be challenged about what is going wrong.

 

If he is coaching them well all week then why do performances not reflect it? What the hell is happening in the walk from the dressing room to the pitch.

 

If he isn't coaching them well then the problem is obvious.

 

I, and I suspect many others, now expect poor performances, punctuated by the odd 20 minutes every other game when we do get ourselves together. 

 

That's something that has to be addressed and I just don't believe Neilson can. He hasn't thus far and doesn't appear to be evolving or improving as a coach in any way.

 

Ms Budge will let him continue but even if we do hold on to third and clinch group stage, I'd still like a change.

 

The squad is a good one but it's far better than the management team.

 

That's a problem.

 

 

That's an opinion. 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

8 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

The waiting list is a sound bite released to deflect. There is no danger 3500 people are waiting on season tickets. There are generally (derby aside) loads of tickets available on the Tocket Exchange. Additionally the ticket office have multiple reference numbers for many fans who are already ST holders. 

If not 3500 then how many is it?

[Des Lynam]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I take your point.  However we still had a stronger squad  than now, paying bigger wages.

 

I'd balance the Vlad issues at the time against our injury problems.

 

We weren't paying the wages.

 

Other teams have injuries as well. Hibs have lost arguably their best two players. I think we'll finish third but if we don't Neilson should be sacked. 

[martoon]

10 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

That's an opinion. 

 

Of course. 🤷‍♂️

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, RustyRightPeg said:

So Savage puts 10 players in front of Neilson, various pros and cons to all.
 

Neilson evaluates and picks the ones with the chicken hearts and no fight. How’s that Savage’s issue?

Savage shouldn't be including players like that on his candidate list in the first place - thats assuming  the attribute of bravery and fight  (a non-stop battler)  is actually identifiable on a players CV.   

[Pasquale for King]

22 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Given that we have a waiting list of around 3500 (IIRC), you're taking a gamble not renewing as you might not get to home games at all.

We have to wait and see what unfolds but if we don't get any better then I doubt there will be a waiting list next season.