Neilson crisis meeting ( merged )

[ShedBoy]

I’m more worried about the 3 behind us tbh. They all have a bit of momentum whereas we have come to a shuddering halt. And I know h1b5 have lost the last 2 but were allegedly decent yesterday. Worrying times ahead. Does 5th place get europe?
 

 

Serious question

[Kev1998]

6 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

I think a lot of folk feel the same. 👍

But you get shot down for it gin.or called a hibby flairmeister.people need to wake up.

[Hearts1975]

1 minute ago, ShedBoy said:

I’m more worried about the 3 behind us tbh. They all have a bit of momentum whereas we have come to a shuddering halt. And I know h1b5 have lost the last 2 but were allegedly decent yesterday. Worrying times ahead. Does 5th place get europe?
 

 

Serious question

Think 3rd gets playoff for Europa. 4th get 3rd qualifying round for conf. 5th get 2nd qualifying round for conf. 

 

All based on one of the 2 cheeks winning the SC. If the cheeks don't win it then the cup winners get the playoff spot, 4th go into the 3rd qualifying round, and 5th place in the league misses out altogether 

 

I think that's the case anyway 

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

Bacon rolls all round?

 

[ShedBoy]

3 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

Think 3rd gets playoff for Europa. 4th get 3rd qualifying round for conf. 5th get 2nd qualifying round for conf. 

 

All based on one of the 2 cheeks winning the SC. If the cheeks don't win it then the cup winners get the playoff spot, 4th go into the 3rd qualifying round, and 5th place in the league misses out altogether 

 

I think that's the case anyway 

 

 

Thanks pal

[feej]

Just now, Bazzas right boot said:

Bacon rolls all round?

 

Nah, it'll be 3 bacon, 4 sausage and 3 egg.

[Hearts1975]

12 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

It might not be everyone's cup of tea but the poster said that folk were happy to accept the lack of entertaining product on the field. I was just making the point to the poster that I don't necessarily think that anyone is happy with a lack of entertainment but that the style of play won't take precedence over the results that we get. 

In essence if Robbie had us playing tiki taka esque football but we were sixth in the table, that wouldn't be acceptable to most. 

 

Re the point you make over performances and results not being mutually exclusive of each other, you would think so, but in our case you could also argue that performances and results are not mutually exclusive of each other as (overall) I dont think we have played that well this season tbh but we still find ourselves in 3rd 

 

Ps I know the exact point you were trying to make. No offence taken. 

@Gin Rummy 

 

I meant to say performances and results are mutually exclusive of each other (in my last paragraph) 

 

Too many big words for me and my brain couldn't keep up. Apologies. 

[Fitzroy Pointon]

8 minutes ago, ShedBoy said:

I’m more worried about the 3 behind us tbh. They all have a bit of momentum whereas we have come to a shuddering halt. And I know h1b5 have lost the last 2 but were allegedly decent yesterday. Worrying times ahead. Does 5th place get europe?
 

 

Serious question

 

Aberdeen were always going to hit form when Goodwin left. If the Streaky Lee's nickname is anything to go by, Hibs will hit another slump at some point. Not that we should be worrying about those two. Yet here we are. 

[Drylaw Hearts]

This crisis meeting with the players is a step in the direction to Neilson departing the club.

 

Its a desperate measure.

[Sherbet]

The only talk with the players should be neilsen saying his goodbyes

[section s heart]

11 hours ago, OTT said:

He's the problem. 

 

1. Blatant favouritism, an out of form, unproductive Barrie McKay is getting into the team by default ahead of an inform Grant, an Aussie wonderkid that Savage worked his arse off to convince to come here, Forrest and Oda.

2. We're starting games too slowly - every single game we're on the back foot from the off. That is down to management. You cannot start games this passively ALL the time!!!

3. Recruitment in the winter window wasn't good enough and didn't enhance the team in the right ways (we needed an experienced defenders defender to replace Halkett. Hill is not that. 

4. The formation is murder. We're playing 3 CB's and still leaking goals whilst being overrun in midfield. Its causing Shankland to drop deep and act as an auxiliary midfielder losing his effectiveness in the final 3rd

5. Tactics are shit. Dominate possession with zero penetration? **** off Robbie. 

 

The team look stifled and over coached. Morale looks to be rock bottom and they don't look like they're even playing for each other, let alone Robbie. 

 

We need to just move to a 433 and get our wide players hitting the byline for Shanks in the middle. This will also give us a 3 man midfield which will give Snodgrass options, and perhaps allow him to play further forward where he's of most use. Something like:

 

Zander

Smith Sibbick Rowles Kingsley

Devlin Snodgrass

Grant

Kuol Shankland Gino

 

We don't have good enough midfielders to sacrifice 1 for another CB, Snodgrass is too old to cover ground, Devlin is poor in possession, Kio is slow, Grant isn't a tackler. Take the third man and actually have a balanced midfield. Devlin ends up with plenty of options so he's always got an outball, Snodgrass likewise, and we get use of Grants creativity. Kuol and Gino have pace to burn and could cause real problems for teams out wide and Shankland is one of the best finishers in the league. 

Best post on the thread. Thanks for summing it up so well. 

 

An interesting aspect to me is we know people in the game generally don't believe the fans know much.  But points like yours and others made appear perfrctly valid. Most glaring example being home v blue arse cheeks when plenty fans around me saw the writing on the wall before the game even kicked off.

 

In steps Neilson with formation changes and substitutions when the game's already down the pan. 

[TheBigO]

10 hours ago, Bob Loblaw said:

Nothing wrong with honest talks. As long as he's also willing to reflect and listen.

 

But if he has 2 weeks working with most of the squad and we still rock up to Rugby Park with a 3-4-3 it ultimately doesn't matter. And I think that's exactly what will happen as he's incredibly stubborn.

 

This is the concern. Id love to know what the players think of our formation.

 

Simply doesn't work with current personnel. Needs simplified and to just let them go do their thing. You'd think thats what the players want

 

Ive defended Robbie (but not his tactics!) but that only lasts while we have results. The last few weeks have not been good.

 

If we come out and batter Killie and get on track, all good. Lets see i suppose.

[Hearts1975]

6 minutes ago, Drylaw Hearts said:

This crisis meeting with the players is a step in the direction to Neilson departing the club.

 

Its a desperate measure.

Just conjecture mate. The press will be looking to stick the boot into us, at any cost. 

There absolutely has to be a bloody meeting. There will be more than ample time to reflect on this season at the very end of the season, but for now and whilst we can effect where we finish, the manager and players need to get us out this rut and focus on nothing else other than getting back on track and making sure we achieve 3rd. 

Anything else isn't good enough considering it's self inflicted. 

[maroonedinbriz]

5 minutes ago, Drylaw Hearts said:

This crisis meeting with the players is a step in the direction to Neilson departing the club.

 

Its a desperate measure.

Whilst pleased there is a realisation that something is seriiously wrong I'm always wary of these things. Post meeting a statement always comes out saying everyone is pulling in the same direction and will fight for the manager. This is almost always followed by a half arsed half hearted performance (the recent Aberdeen performance against Hibs for example).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GinRummy]

20 minutes ago, Hearts1975 said:

@Gin Rummy 

 

I meant to say performances and results are mutually exclusive of each other (in my last paragraph) 

 

Too many big words for me and my brain couldn't keep up. Apologies. 

👍 I got what you meant mate. 

[Pasquale for King]

11 hours ago, Cade said:

1) Wrong formation. 3 at the back doesn't fecking work.

2) Playing players out of position.

3) Not dropping players who are in shite form.

4) Far too slow in the build up. Teams are happy to let us pish around at the back and sideways in midfield then press us and take the ball off us as soon as we go forward.

5) Unfit. The team look puggled by half time every match.

6) Over-coached. Nobody seems to know what they're supposed to be doing. 

 

Just like under Cathro and Levein, the players are over-coached and unfit.

They get caught on the ball and are slow to pass because they're too busy thinking about what they're supposed to be doing according to the stats/laptop/whiteboard/tactical meeting instead of running at the opposition, finding space and passing quickly. You know, playing football.
Get them out of the classroom, into the gym and onto the practise pitches.

 

 

 

Great post

[Pasquale for King]

2 hours ago, ...andFulton'sBaggio said:

Ha ha! Boom boom. Made me laugh. Best post of the weekend 👍

Try my best 😜

[Gizmo]

12 hours ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

There it is. Predictometer 10/10

 

“If you had said to me before the World Cup break that we’d be in this position when we were five or six points behind teams, I’d probably have taken it."  

 

He’s not wrong though, is he?

As much as he takes the criticism for our form slump, he equally should get credit for turning that gap around too.

What matters to us more - kicking Neilson for the good stuff as well as the bad, or rekindling the form that dragged us into 3rd from a worse position than we are in currently?

 

[pettigrewsstylist]

2 minutes ago, Gizmo said:

 

He’s not wrong though, is he?

As much as he takes the criticism for our form slump, he equally should get credit for turning that gap around too.

What matters to us more - kicking Neilson for the good stuff as well as the bad, or rekindling the form that dragged us into 3rd from a worse position than we are in currently?

 

Very wrong. Attempting to suggest our measuring bar should be his preffered snapshot of pre WC failures league table.

Its where you go when you dont want to or cant explain events like Motherwell or yesterday. 

We move on to Killie. He is rightly measured over the season and not a slump.

 

[The Mercer Takeover]

12 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

If true this underlines the critical nature of the next 2 months. Not because of a loss at Aberdeen or a loss at Motherwell which whilst undoubtedly dreadful performances are just small parts of the much bigger picture. If today has brought it to a head then fine. All the progress we have made off the park will be totally undermined by failings on it if we do not take advantage of the monumental opportunity that has presented itself to us. There can be no excuses and I hope and actually believe the board will know this. I think they have provided a budget and a squad that they think should have us comfortably 3rd and will have been taken aback at just how abysmal we've been in recent weeks.

 

I posted on here either during or after the D.Utd game (can't remember which) that I heard Savage say a number of things (was sat the row in front of him) including we need to produce a season defining half. He was very unhappy at our efforts in the first 45 minutes. He was also raging during the Friday night game against St Mirren so this is a guy who is involved, he's watching what we are. He will know today and many recent performances have been nowhere near acceptable. If this is true, and I'm going to believe it because it makes me feel better, I hope they are ripping strips of Neilson and his cohorts. 

Good post

[RustyRightPeg]

12 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

If true this underlines the critical nature of the next 2 months. Not because of a loss at Aberdeen or a loss at Motherwell which whilst undoubtedly dreadful performances are just small parts of the much bigger picture. If today has brought it to a head then fine. All the progress we have made off the park will be totally undermined by failings on it if we do not take advantage of the monumental opportunity that has presented itself to us. There can be no excuses and I hope and actually believe the board will know this. I think they have provided a budget and a squad that they think should have us comfortably 3rd and will have been taken aback at just how abysmal we've been in recent weeks.

 

I posted on here either during or after the D.Utd game (can't remember which) that I heard Savage say a number of things (was sat the row in front of him) including we need to produce a season defining half. He was very unhappy at our efforts in the first 45 minutes. He was also raging during the Friday night game against St Mirren so this is a guy who is involved, he's watching what we are. He will know today and many recent performances have been nowhere near acceptable. If this is true, and I'm going to believe it because it makes me feel better, I hope they are ripping strips of Neilson and his cohorts. 

Insightful. 
 

Savage doesn’t seem the type to **** about. If his approach is similar to that on his player recruitment, things will need to improve significantly post internationals.

[pettigrewsstylist]

4 hours ago, The Gorgie said:

Lets hope the players have some balls to tell him this system is pish.

The system can produce good football, if you have the personnel. We have had plenty joy whilst other teams took a bit if time to get to grips with what we were doing this yr. Once its sussed tho.....

[Coco]

6 minutes ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Insightful. 
 

Savage doesn’t seem the type to **** about. If his approach is similar to that on his player recruitment, things will need to improve significantly post internationals.

Savage is yet another slaverer self publicist in the Cathro/MacPhee/Stendel model we've been repeatedly lumbered with in the past decade.

 

The vast majority of the players he's brought in are weak and pretty poor.  5 year contract for the sap Rowles!

[RustyRightPeg]

Just now, Coco said:

Savage is yet another slaverer self publicist in the Cathro/MacPhee/Stendel model we've been repeatedly lumbered with in the past decade.

 

The vast majority of the players he's brought in are weak and pretty poor.  5 year contract for the sap Rowles!

Neilson has the final say on players. 

[Coco]

As for Neilson - this back 5 setup has to go unless there's a miracle recovery for Beni.  Signing Kio, Grant and Snodgrass when wanting to play 2 midfielders is lunacy.  As is this nonsense about Mackay impersonating Christian Erikson

[Coco]

1 minute ago, RustyRightPeg said:

Neilson has the final say on players. 

Yes.

[leipzig76]

1 hour ago, Drylaw Hearts said:

This crisis meeting with the players is a step in the direction to Neilson departing the club.

 

Its a desperate measure.

That's how I saw it DH.Has lost the dressing room all over it for me

[RustyRightPeg]

14 minutes ago, Coco said:

Yes.

So Savage puts 10 players in front of Neilson, various pros and cons to all.
 

Neilson evaluates and picks the ones with the chicken hearts and no fight. How’s that Savage’s issue?

[Luckies1874]

18 minutes ago, Coco said:

Savage is yet another slaverer self publicist in the Cathro/MacPhee/Stendel model we've been repeatedly lumbered with in the past decade.

 

The vast majority of the players he's brought in are weak and pretty poor.  5 year contract for the sap Rowles!

 

 

I'm not so sure about this. From what I've seen/heard and witnessed I think he is ambitious so it will be interesting to see if he allows himself to be seen as attached to Neilson now that a significant number of fans are starting to lose all patience with the manager. My belief is he will not.

[pettigrewsstylist]

1 hour ago, Drylaw Hearts said:

This crisis meeting with the players is a step in the direction to Neilson departing the club.

 

Its a desperate measure.

Is there such a meeting at all?

[Dr Lager]

12 hours ago, Arthur Morgan said:

How on earth can you have 62% possession with 0 shots on target? That's absolutely astonishing, really is. You don't even need to watch the game to know what happens anymore, it's so obvious. Passing about at the back and nothing else. Absolutely depressing stuff. 

This has been the problem for weeks but Shankland papered over the cracks. Now that he’s basically a midfielder the goals have dried up. Most weeks we have better players but we are more poorly coached and organised 

[pettigrewsstylist]

6 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

I'm not so sure about this. From what I've seen/heard and witnessed I think he is ambitious so it will be interesting to see if he allows himself to be seen as attached to Neilson now that a significant number of fans are starting to lose all patience with the manager. My belief is he will 

 

[pettigrewsstylist]

6 minutes ago, Dr Lager said:

This has been the problem for weeks but Shankland papered over the cracks. Now that he’s basically a midfielder the goals have dried up. Most weeks we have better players but we are more poorly coached and organised 

Bang on. Stats in themselves mean nothing.

Heat maps tho... fitbaw porn right there.

[Dr Lager]

1 minute ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Bang on. Stats in themselves mean nothing.

Heat maps tho... fitbaw porn right there.

Probably a huge red mark between the half way line and our goal where we have all our possession! 

[soonbe110]

13 hours ago, mr fox said:

Apparently they are having a crisis meeting to discuss what’s going wrong. Hopefully someone has the balls to say to Mr tinker-man he is the root cause. This guy is 100% oblivious to his failings. 
 

Been harping on about him for months with this awful 343 system and the constant changing of player’s positions. 
 

It’s not rocket science and the best spell I can remember was last season when we played 4231 for a while but he then switched it back to 343. 
 

Pretty obvious the players have lost the respect for him now it’s only going to end one way now - quicker the better get him out this club. 
 

 

How does ‘ we will speak to the players and make sure they understand what’s required’ become a ‘crisis meeting’? Is he not supposed to speak to the players before the next game in two weeks time? 

Only on jkb. 

[pettigrewsstylist]

Just now, Dr Lager said:

Probably a huge red mark between the half way line and our goal where we have all our possession! 

Im 3-0 up mate, your ball.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, pettigrewsstylist said:

Very wrong. Attempting to suggest our measuring bar should be his preffered snapshot of pre WC failures league table.

Its where you go when you dont want to or cant explain events like Motherwell or yesterday. 

We move on to Killie. He is rightly measured over the season and not a slump.

 

 

 

Sensible. 

 

Far too much ignoring the positives and therefore the balance. 

 

Being 3-0 down at ht to Aberdeen is worrying,  killie is important. 

 

The league table is what he is rightly judged on.

 

 

[Deevers]

12 minutes ago, Dr Lager said:

This has been the problem for weeks but Shankland papered over the cracks. Now that he’s basically a midfielder the goals have dried up. Most weeks we have better players but we are more poorly coached and organised 

Some of the players look less than interested. That’s my worry.  The first half performances yesterday were dreadful.  

[Bazzas right boot]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

How does ‘ we will speak to the players and make sure they understand what’s required’ become a ‘crisis meeting’? Is he not supposed to speak to the players before the next game in two weeks time? 

Only on jkb. 

 

 

Yip,  they bloody should be having  a meeting after a defeat like yesterday. 

 

Hardly news tho.

 

Too many are way too excited at the thought of us plunging into a  "crisis ", some folk seem to be gagging for it.

 

 

[leginten]

13 hours ago, Arthur Morgan said:

How on earth can you have 62% possession with 0 shots on target? That's absolutely astonishing, really is. You don't even need to watch the game to know what happens anymore, it's so obvious. Passing about at the back and nothing else. Absolutely depressing stuff. 

There was a 2-0 defeat at Pittodrie in Levein’s last spell where Aberdeen weren’t in the least bothered how much possession we had, as we barely crossed the half-way line. The only “effort” on target was a Harry Cochrane pass-back to their keeper in the 92nd minute. 
 

Last season I thought we were decent. Slowly but surely, however, it’s becoming Leveinball. The lack of threat and the ease of Motherwell’s and Aberdeen’s recent wins are worrying.

[pettigrewsstylist]

11 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Some of the players look less than interested. That’s my worry.  The first half performances yesterday were dreadful.  

I dont believe anyone out there downed tools as such. Just a shitshow. Its been waiting to happen however.

[Luckies1874]

2 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Yip,  they bloody should be having  a meeting after a defeat like yesterday. 

 

Hardly news tho.

 

Too many are way too excited at the thought of us plunging into a  "crisis ", some folk seem to be gagging for it.

 

 

 

 

The "excitement" as you put it has nothing to do with people hoping for a crisis. Far from it, the overwhelming focus is on Hearts fulfilling our potential. Most have realised (look at the numbers!!!) Neilson is far from the person to best utilise what he has at his disposal. He is doing a very mediocre job and as a club we should be looking for considerably better in much the same way we apparently want to improve the squad each season. I get that you are a very loyal supporter of his, fair play to you but the tide has turned and yesterday was totally unacceptable though totally predictable. The club are now gambling with the huge opportunity that we have available to us. Do they stick or twist. Do they allow him the chance to crawl over the line and see us stuck with a divisive manager or do they act decisively and get someone who can galvanise the squad to ensure we secure the European group stage. Whatever they decide they need to get it right because Hibs winning the Cup in 2016 (something you hear more about than most) will seem like nothing if a Neilson lead Hearts team continue to shit the bed and allow them to finish 3rd. He'll be persona non grata for ever in Gorgie iof that happens! 

[Sherbet]

15 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

 

Sensible. 

 

Far too much ignoring the positives and therefore the balance. 

 

Being 3-0 down at ht to Aberdeen is worrying,  killie is important. 

 

The league table is what he is rightly judged on.

 

 

True    wait til we are in the bottom six then act

[briever]

14 hours ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Meeting begins.  

 

Someone stands up with a big **** off sweeping brush and speaks one word "injuries".

 

Meeting concludes. 

 

And whoever says that should be shown the door too.

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

The "excitement" as you put it has nothing to do with people hoping for a crisis. Far from it, the overwhelming focus is on Hearts fulfilling our potential. Most have realised (look at the numbers!!!) Neilson is far from the person to best utilise what he has at his disposal. He is doing a very mediocre job and as a club we should be looking for considerably better in much the same way we apparently want to improve the squad each season. I get that you are a very loyal supporter of his, fair play to you but the tide has turned and yesterday was totally unacceptable though totally predictable. The club are now gambling with the huge opportunity that we have available to us. Do they stick or twist. Do they allow him the chance to crawl over the line and see us stuck with a divisive manager or do they act decisively and get someone who can galvanise the squad to ensure we secure the European group stage. Whatever they decide they need to get it right because Hibs winning the Cup in 2016 (something you hear more about than most) will seem like nothing if a Neilson lead Hearts team continue to shit the bed and allow them to finish 3rd. He'll be persona non grata for ever in Gorgie iof that happens! 

 

Some really need to stop thinking about hibs all the time.

 

It's often said they are obsessed by us, but **** me some individuals don't have talk about them a lot.

[highlandjambo3]

14 hours ago, tartofmidlothian said:

Is this ITK or just a rumour?

 

I seem to remember the same thing happened after Brora and that turned out okay.

Well the very first word in the post is “apparently” so make of that what you can.

[Luckies1874]

1 minute ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

Some really need to stop thinking about hibs all the time.

 

It's often said they are obsessed by us, but **** me some individuals don't have talk about them a lot.

 

 

You are far too intelligent a chap not to have understood the implications of Hibs (especially) being the team that catches us for 3rd place this season. Your bravado is misguided in this instance. And you know it! You also know just how serious that would be for Neilson's immediate future and indeed 'legacy'.

[busbyfth]

14 hours ago, Luckies1874 said:

If true this underlines the critical nature of the next 2 months. Not because of a loss at Aberdeen or a loss at Motherwell which whilst undoubtedly dreadful performances are just small parts of the much bigger picture. If today has brought it to a head then fine. All the progress we have made off the park will be totally undermined by failings on it if we do not take advantage of the monumental opportunity that has presented itself to us. There can be no excuses and I hope and actually believe the board will know this. I think they have provided a budget and a squad that they think should have us comfortably 3rd and will have been taken aback at just how abysmal we've been in recent weeks.

 

I posted on here either during or after the D.Utd game (can't remember which) that I heard Savage say a number of things (was sat the row in front of him) including we need to produce a season defining half. He was very unhappy at our efforts in the first 45 minutes. He was also raging during the Friday night game against St Mirren so this is a guy who is involved, he's watching what we are. He will know today and many recent performances have been nowhere near acceptable. If this is true, and I'm going to believe it because it makes me feel better, I hope they are ripping strips of Neilson and his cohorts. 

Many times when playing away at Cel/Ran/Ab/FFFHibs we have a really bad first half. Its as if RN dips his toe in early so that he can  make appropriate adjustments at half time once sussing things out(usually too late) 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

 

He’s not wrong though, is he?

As much as he takes the criticism for our form slump, he equally should get credit for turning that gap around too.

What matters to us more - kicking Neilson for the good stuff as well as the bad, or rekindling the form that dragged us into 3rd from a worse position than we are in currently?

 

Looking at those swarming all over threads, I'd definitely say kicking Neilson and by default, Hearts.

[Bazzas right boot]

5 minutes ago, Luckies1874 said:

 

 

You are far too intelligent a chap not to have understood the implications of Hibs (especially) being the team that catches us for 3rd place this season. Your bravado is misguided in this instance. And you know it! You also know just how serious that would be for Neilson's immediate future and indeed 'legacy'.

 

I'm too Intelligent to let what Hibs do or do not do  dictate any future direction of Hearts and our manager appointments.