Closing the gap

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Chimp said:

It’s a shame once again that because you’re so in love with your beloved “Bob” that you can’t see or admit that we haven’t improved since last season even though we have better players. If that doesn’t fall on the manager’s head then who is responsible?

Get my wish and finish 4th? What is wrong with you 🥴

 

The assertion that we have  had better players, on aggregate across the team and averaged across games available, is arguable at best. Last season we had an impervious, settled back line of Kingsley, Halkett, and Souttar for most of the season. We haven't gone much more than a month with anything like a settled back line at this point because of injuries. In front of them, we had Baningime and Devlin together for over half of the season, and a healthy Peter Haring for most of what we didn't. Snodgrass has been a fantastic addition but there is still always a huge Beni-shaped hole in the team.

 

The attacking side of the pitch is much better, assuredly, but a major reason we don't have at least 10 more points than we do at the moment is that we've given away a lot of really poor goals this season.

[soonbe110]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

They’re not as bad as last season, the stats don’t lie.
We lost to Brora and won our league. 

They had a right start and then disappeared.  They didn’t lose 11 goals in two visits to Edinburgh last season. They didn’t lose to Darvel last season. They didn’t take the armband off their captain and immediately loan him out last season. They cant find a replacement manager. They are in free fall. If all of that was happening to us can you imagine the carnage on here? 

[soonbe110]

6 minutes ago, Chimp said:

We have not. We strengthened to make sure we had the cover in case of injury. Every team gets injuries.  Our performances this season have been mostly quite poor but rode our luck a fair few times and sometimes been more clinical. And as for our away form? What’s the excuse for that? Abysmal. 

Fair enough, all entitled to an opinion. Mines is just very different to yours.  I don’t think every team loses possibly their four/five best players to injury etc and just continues on as before eg Liverpool this season. 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

They had a right start and then disappeared.  They didn’t lose 11 goals in two visits to Edinburgh last season. They didn’t lose to Darvel last season. They didn’t take the armband off their captain and immediately loan him out last season. They cant find a replacement manager. They are in free fall. If all of that was happening to us can you imagine the carnage on here? 

 

The details are off a bit but reading that makes the ghostly face of Ian Cathro swim in front of my eyes. (Taking the armband off the captain and disappearing him to the bench at least fits.)

[Hearts_fan]

1 hour ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Anyone names a name and they get slaughtered.  Been here before.   

 

Alex Neil or Steven Schumacher.  

 

I await the "how can you guarantee they would do better" responses.  My reply to that would be we shouldn't base the next manager being worse just because Levein and Budge completely ****ed up the replacement years ago - It's like saying the don't trust Joe Savage to make the correct call.

Do you think they do trust Joe Savage?

[soonbe110]

6 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Thankfully we've replaced all of those players this season, because we were always likely to miss them at some point. 

Indeed, debatable if we have have replaced with better or even same quality though. 
Gordon > Clark

Halkett > Hill 

Boyce > Humphrys 

Beni > ?? Haven’t replaced him 

Souttar > Hill, Rowles

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Anyone names a name and they get slaughtered.  Been here before.   

 

Alex Neil or Steven Schumacher.  

 

I await the "how can you guarantee they would do better" responses.  My reply to that would be we shouldn't base the next manager being worse just because Levein and Budge completely ****ed up the replacement years ago - It's like saying the don't trust Joe Savage to make the correct call.

 

Unless I'm mistaken Savage would not be the one to make the final decision on the hire. I'm sure he would advise on this.

 

On the other hand, those giving all the credit to Savage in order to slate Neilson should at least take note of the sustained and unambiguous enthusiastic support and praise that Savage has consistently given Neilson.

[soonbe110]

3 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

The details are off a bit but reading that makes the ghostly face of Ian Cathro swim in front of my eyes. (Taking the armband off the captain and disappearing him to the bench at least fits.)

Dunfermline at home in LC fits as well. In reality we didn’t find a replacement manager either. We went with our DOF. 

[mr fox]

5 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Which was my point.  Finishing 3rd ahead of a team who has a better squad would be a good achievement - if we don’t get 3rd this season then another manager will be doing just that.  I still think we’ll be 3rd though.  And we certainly should be. 
 

Martindale is a manager who gets his team punching above their weight almost week in week out.  I just don’t see Robbie getting his team punching above it’s weight, rather a case of just being where we should be.

Your spot on 

[Naisys Tackle]

40 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

I've seen the light.

Let's do it!

 

Let's Rock up at Tynecastle boo really loud, protest, cancel foh and make sure he's punted.

Get random chap in and next level here we come!

 

I'm on board, McInnes would jump at the chance of managing us?

Or fancy foreign name?

 

I assume Ross, Robinson,  Goodwin, Wright aren't options?

Martindale,  he has a fan club on here?

Next level train might not be down the corridor but it's just doon the road.

Och well.      

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

2 hours ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

No wonder he's laughing,  he's just fired a couple of bacon rolls down his throat.

 

 

I love a good bacon roll

[Naisys Tackle]

5 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Unless I'm mistaken Savage would not be the one to make the final decision on the hire. I'm sure he would advise on this.

 

On the other hand, those giving all the credit to Savage in order to slate Neilson should at least take note of the sustained and unambiguous enthusiastic support and praise that Savage has consistently given Neilson.

Savage would have a massive say.

 

I've never done any of the second paragraph so hope not aimed at me. 

[Naisys Tackle]

9 minutes ago, Hearts_fan said:

Do you think they do trust Joe Savage?

Trust Savage to get the next managerial appointment right?  Probably not because all they do is revert to the disasters Levein and Budge brought in a few years back and are scared that would happen again based on not a lot because there's now guys in charge.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

2 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

Savage would have a massive say.

 

I've never done any of the second paragraph so hope not aimed at me. 

 

It's not, just musing.

[Hearts_fan]

This thread reminds me of the comments on here and elsewhere the night CG broke his leg. 

Paraphrasing:

 

“He’s 40 - he’s finished…”

 

“That’s his playing career over”

 

“At least he’s gone out at the top of his game”

 

 

Just a little reminder to not take some people seriously if what they’re saying sounds completely ridiculous. It’s the internet: it’s not filtered! 

[Naisys Tackle]

Just now, Led Tasso said:

 

It's not, just musing.

No problem mate 👍

[Naisys Tackle]

Just now, Hearts_fan said:

This thread reminds me of the comments on here and elsewhere the night CG broke his leg. 

Paraphrasing:

 

“He’s 40 - he’s finished…”

 

“That’s his playing career over”

 

“At least he’s gone out at the top of his game”

 

 

Just a little reminder to not take some people seriously if what they’re saying sounds completely ridiculous. It’s the internet: it’s not filtered! 

 

There was many that never wanted Gordon back in the first place and Shankland would be a poor signing.  Opinions eh?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 minute ago, Robbies Tackle said:

No problem mate 👍

Cheers mate, have a great weekend.

[Naisys Tackle]

2 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

Cheers mate, have a great weekend.

You too  

[Baxfee]

The joys of not having a game - hee haw to talk about 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

It tells me that they were awful last season and that they are slightly less bad this season. 
We on the other hand have spent £2m and are no better than we were, the rest are still terrible. 
What way would you say we have progressed up until this point?

I didn’t say anything about us regressing or progressing. I just stated we are above the two teams you mentioned for this season. Someone else posted that those same two teams might improve next season. I just mentioned that we may also improve next season. So then what happens. We hit a stalemate but we’re still third. Again.

It amazes me the Hearts fans on here who seemingly want us to fail for nothing but bragging rights of “I told you so”

One has us firing him, advertising the position and seeing who shows up. We’re living in a twilight zone on here sometimes.

[Hearts_fan]

All I know is how I feel, and after 32 emotional seasons I’ve never felt more optimistic about the prospects of the Club. Steady progress is what we need, continuity is what will keep us ahead of the others. 
 

The idea of willingly incurring needless costs (both financial and time) is crazy.

 

I’m leaving this thread now because it’s ridiculous that it’s even a discussion. But then, nothing surprises me about humanity and some people’s capacity to fill their time griping about things. I’m doing it now after all. 
 

Was. 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

3 minutes ago, Hearts_fan said:

All I know is how I feel, and after 32 emotional seasons I’ve never felt more optimistic about the prospects of the Club. Steady progress is what we need, continuity is what will keep us ahead of the others. 
 

The idea of willingly incurring needless costs (both financial and time) is crazy.

 

I’m leaving this thread now because it’s ridiculous that it’s even a discussion. But then, nothing surprises me about humanity and some people’s capacity to fill their time griping about things. I’m doing it now after all. 
 

Was. 

Coward!!

Dont you dare leave. Pull up your big boy pants and start posting. We need all onboard with this thread or Robbie is a goner.

[jr ewing]

Just now, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

Coward!!

Dont you dare leave. Pull up your big boy pants and start posting. We need all onboard with this thread or Robbie is a goner.

Too late he's gone 😪 

[Naisys Tackle]

8 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

Too late he's gone 😪 

. 

[Borders Jambo]

32 minutes ago, Hearts_fan said:

All I know is how I feel, and after 32 emotional seasons I’ve never felt more optimistic about the prospects of the Club. Steady progress is what we need, continuity is what will keep us ahead of the others. 
 

The idea of willingly incurring needless costs (both financial and time) is crazy.

 

I’m leaving this thread now because it’s ridiculous that it’s even a discussion. But then, nothing surprises me about humanity and some people’s capacity to fill their time griping about things. I’m doing it now after all. 
 

Was. 

Great post

[rory78]

Joe Savage must watch us and think wow I've chased Garang Kuol for an age persuading Newcastle to loan us him in good faith to watching Robbie chuck him into centre midfield totally out his depth in a position he doesn't know 

[Pasquale for King]

44 minutes ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

I didn’t say anything about us regressing or progressing. I just stated we are above the two teams you mentioned for this season. Someone else posted that those same two teams might improve next season. I just mentioned that we may also improve next season. So then what happens. We hit a stalemate but we’re still third. Again.

It amazes me the Hearts fans on here who seemingly want us to fail for nothing but bragging rights of “I told you so”

One has us firing him, advertising the position and seeing who shows up. We’re living in a twilight zone on here sometimes.

Fair enough, I just want us to be the best we can and share the frustration of the manager who feels we should be doing better. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, rory78 said:

Joe Savage must watch us and think wow I've chased Garang Kuol for an age persuading Newcastle to loan us him in good faith to watching Robbie chuck him into centre midfield totally out his depth in a position he doesn't know 

Definitely, but the lad is extremely raw and hopefully we will see him get a run of games up front soon. 

[Pasquale for King]

51 minutes ago, Baxfee said:

The joys of not having a game - hee haw to talk about 

Was going to mention that earlier, not a good time to lose. 
Hopefully the women's derby on Sunday will help. 

[Sinbad the Sailor]

7 hours ago, mr fox said:

Many are happy with the chopping and changing it seems. Many are not happy with it. Personally think sinbad you should stick to sailing. Name one team that changes formations as much as us ???? 

Don't care what formation we play. Just care about winning....but when we lose I'm not greetin' about how we should be as good as the OF or Arsenal or Chelsea as the post I answered indicated. Nor am I wanting the manager sacked. 

 

We are Hearts in a league where the OF have riches beyond our current capability - 3rd is best we can achieve.

 

Our away form is pants. Always has been.

 

If we end up less than 3rd that's the time to chart for different waters.

 

[stevie]

1 minute ago, rory78 said:

Joe Savage must watch us and think wow I've chased Garang Kuol for an age persuading Newcastle to loan us him in good faith to watching Robbie chuck him into centre midfield totally out his depth in a position he doesn't know 

Absolutely bang on,Bob puts square pegs in round holes time after time.Savage has assembled a cracking squad and all we need is a real manager.RN has lucked out!
Can the real slim shady please stand up 👍

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Indeed, debatable if we have have replaced with better or even same quality though. 
Gordon > Clark

Halkett > Hill 

Boyce > Humphrys 

Beni > ?? Haven’t replaced him 

Souttar > Hill, Rowles

Yes thats up for discussion, we have paid £700k for Kio and Grant with Snodgrass for that space in midfield too. 

[jr ewing]

22 minutes ago, rory78 said:

Joe Savage must watch us and think wow I've chased Garang Kuol for an age persuading Newcastle to loan us him in good faith to watching Robbie chuck him into centre midfield totally out his depth in a position he doesn't know 

And Atkinson wide left. Forrest right back.....

[Sinbad the Sailor]

11 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Indeed, debatable if we have have replaced with better or even same quality though. 
Gordon > Clark

Halkett > Hill 

Boyce > Humphrys 

Beni > ?? Haven’t replaced him 

Souttar > Hill, Rowles

 

Interesting post. So if 4 of those 5 were all available and not out injured how many points clear in 3rd would we be now?

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

I didn’t say anything about us regressing or progressing. I just stated we are above the two teams you mentioned for this season. Someone else posted that those same two teams might improve next season. I just mentioned that we may also improve next season. So then what happens. We hit a stalemate but we’re still third. Again.

It amazes me the Hearts fans on here who seemingly want us to fail for nothing but bragging rights of “I told you so”

One has us firing him, advertising the position and seeing who shows up. We’re living in a twilight zone on here sometimes.

Sometimes????

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Hearts_fan said:

All I know is how I feel, and after 32 emotional seasons I’ve never felt more optimistic about the prospects of the Club. Steady progress is what we need, continuity is what will keep us ahead of the others. 
 

The idea of willingly incurring needless costs (both financial and time) is crazy.

 

I’m leaving this thread now because it’s ridiculous that it’s even a discussion. But then, nothing surprises me about humanity and some people’s capacity to fill their time griping about things. I’m doing it now after all. 
 

Was. 

25 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yes thats up for discussion, we have paid £700k for Kio and Grant with Snodgrass for that space in midfield too. 

Yep, though Snodgrass and Grant are not, and never have been, defensive midfielders. 

[soonbe110]

10 minutes ago, Sinbad the Sailor said:

Interesting post. So if 4 of those 5 were all available and not out injured how many points clear in 3rd would we be now?

Closer to second than fourth imo 

[Sinbad the Sailor]

8 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Closer to second than fourth imo 

Agreed

[Pasquale for King]

11 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

 

I’m not the one playing them there. 

[Jambo 4 Ever]

30 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Closer to second than fourth imo 

No chance 

[soonbe110]

24 minutes ago, Sinbad the Sailor said:

Agreed

👍

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, soonbe110 said:

Closer to second than fourth imo 

Probably 

[mr fox]

23 hours ago, Sinbad the Sailor said:

Don't care what formation we play. Just care about winning....but when we lose I'm not greetin' about how we should be as good as the OF or Arsenal or Chelsea as the post I answered indicated. Nor am I wanting the manager sacked. 

 

We are Hearts in a league where the OF have riches beyond our current capability - 3rd is best we can achieve.

 

Our away form is pants. Always has been.

 

If we end up less than 3rd that's the time to chart for different waters.

 

Do you not think if we played a consistent team formation we would improve ? 

[jamboinglasgow]

Was listening to Scarfs around the funnel and they were saying that we need to forget aiming to challenge the Old Firm and at the moment aim to be better than the rest. And while I get what they were saying about this, I feel it misses the benefit of aiming to compete with the Old Firm.

 

If we set our aim to ultimately get close or compete with the Old Firm, it requires the whole attitude at the club to change. We need to be more professional, we have accept that we must be at our best at all times, that players cant give anything less than their all, that you need to be a high level of confidence (though not cross that fine line into arrogance.) That poor results are not acceptable. Etc. We may never reach the Old Firm but aim high and look to meet it, then you will finish clear of the rest every time.

 

Setting your aim to be better than rest, may get you third but you are more likely to do only enough to get third each time. To me it reminds me of Celtic, they seem to have the mentality of "do better than Rangers." It has been that for a long time. And it does mean they have been very successful domestically. But it also has meant they have not developed further and done well in Europe. Rangers started again in the fourth tier, and that should have been the time they kicked on to another level, but they didn't, Rangers came up and it meant Celtic were only focused on Rangers again. I think not aiming high (with a change of ethos at the club to match) risks just doing enough but nothing more.

[Jambo61]

10 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

Was listening to Scarfs around the funnel and they were saying that we need to forget aiming to challenge the Old Firm and at the moment aim to be better than the rest. And while I get what they were saying about this, I feel it misses the benefit of aiming to compete with the Old Firm.

 

If we set our aim to ultimately get close or compete with the Old Firm, it requires the whole attitude at the club to change. We need to be more professional, we have accept that we must be at our best at all times, that players cant give anything less than their all, that you need to be a high level of confidence (though not cross that fine line into arrogance.) That poor results are not acceptable. Etc. We may never reach the Old Firm but aim high and look to meet it, then you will finish clear of the rest every time.

 

Setting your aim to be better than rest, may get you third but you are more likely to do only enough to get third each time. To me it reminds me of Celtic, they seem to have the mentality of "do better than Rangers." It has been that for a long time. And it does mean they have been very successful domestically. But it also has meant they have not developed further and done well in Europe. Rangers started again in the fourth tier, and that should have been the time they kicked on to another level, but they didn't, Rangers came up and it meant Celtic were only focused on Rangers again. I think not aiming high (with a change of ethos at the club to match) risks just doing enough but nothing more.

Third would be good, but right now ain't guaranteed! We are closer to buggering up 3rd than any attempt to 'close the gap'!

[ramrod]

Watched a bit of the game yesterday an I have to say both of them are absolutely miles ahead of us in term of quality,  organisation and nous.

The gap is getting wider and will continue to get wider unfortunately. 

The wages they can pay is the defining factor, they can simply afford players we will never be able to .

[Jambo-Fox]

8 hours ago, jamboinglasgow said:

Was listening to Scarfs around the funnel and they were saying that we need to forget aiming to challenge the Old Firm and at the moment aim to be better than the rest. And while I get what they were saying about this, I feel it misses the benefit of aiming to compete with the Old Firm.

 

If we set our aim to ultimately get close or compete with the Old Firm, it requires the whole attitude at the club to change. We need to be more professional, we have accept that we must be at our best at all times, that players cant give anything less than their all, that you need to be a high level of confidence (though not cross that fine line into arrogance.) That poor results are not acceptable. Etc. We may never reach the Old Firm but aim high and look to meet it, then you will finish clear of the rest every time.

 

Setting your aim to be better than rest, may get you third but you are more likely to do only enough to get third each time. To me it reminds me of Celtic, they seem to have the mentality of "do better than Rangers." It has been that for a long time. And it does mean they have been very successful domestically. But it also has meant they have not developed further and done well in Europe. Rangers started again in the fourth tier, and that should have been the time they kicked on to another level, but they didn't, Rangers came up and it meant Celtic were only focused on Rangers again. I think not aiming high (with a change of ethos at the club to match) risks just doing enough but nothing more.

This is the correct strategy!!

 

Aim high HHGH

[JimmyCant]

On 24/02/2023 at 19:29, Led Tasso said:

 

Unless I'm mistaken Savage would not be the one to make the final decision on the hire. I'm sure he would advise on this.

 

On the other hand, those giving all the credit to Savage in order to slate Neilson should at least take note of the sustained and unambiguous enthusiastic support and praise that Savage has consistently given Neilson.

Aye. We really expect Savage to publicly air any doubts he has about Neilson right enough.

 

3rd place you cannot argue with. You could always do better in terms of performance and a better coach might ‘close the gap’ but it’s not being closed completely. They have far too much money for that to happen

 

Lose 3rd from this position, and I’m 50-50 on whether we will or not and there’s a serious conversation needing to be had because that costs millions that another club(probably Hibs) gets instead. For me 4th is sackable especially if Hibs get 3rd.

 

Our last couple of performances suggest we have run out of gas so that’s concerning to have happened this early.

Edited February 27, 2023 by JimmyCant

[frankblack]

15 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Aye. We really expect Savage to publicly air any doubts he has about Neilson right enough.

 

3rd place you cannot argue with. You could always do better in terms of performance and a better coach might ‘close the gap’ but it’s not being closed completely. They have far too much money for that to happen

 

Lose 3rd from this position, and I’m 50-50 on whether we will or not and there’s a serious conversation needing to be had because that costs millions that another club(probably Hibs) gets instead. For me 4th is sackable especially if Hibs get 3rd.

 

Our last couple of performances suggest we have run out of gas so that’s concerning to have happened this early.

 

 

Panic merchant alert.

 

We lose a game and a number on here lose the plot.