What did the ref blow for before the penalty?

[stirlingshirejambo]

22 minutes ago, happyjam said:

 

On your first point does anyone know who controls the messages that are shown on the screen is it Hears or the VaR officials back in Glasgow.

 

Having watched it a few times and my take on it is

1. Clancy thought Halliday had fouled the Hibs player but played on as he wasn't 100% sure so let play continue.

2. Ball broke to Devlin who had a shot that was deflected by a Hibs player then hit Rocky's arm.

3. Ball then broke to Sibbick who put it in the back of the net.

4. Clancy blew for what he thought was the initial foul.

 

In terms of VaR checks my take on it is 

1. They quickly dismissed the initial foul (and was therefore never shown on screen).

2. Proceeded to check Offside and and the Goal as displayed on the big screens.

 

In terms of the VaR decisions my take on it is  

1.   The goal was correctly chalked off as Sibbick was offside at the initial shot but was considered to be inactive at this point but active after the ball hit Rocky.

2.  The penalty was correctly awarded for handball.

3.  The yellow card was given for the handball.  In my opinion the correct result, my initial thoughts on seeing it at full speed are the ball was going directly towards the goal but having slowed it down I think the direction of the ball from the deflection to Rocky is the ball is possibly going passed the post and therefore inconclusive.

 

My verdict is that VaR got all the decisions correct albeit at the game it did seem to take a long time, although this was probably down to the number of incidents that took place and the lack of camera angles available.  

 

While very frustrating that it took longer than we would have liked I'm just glad the correct decision was made and a tick in the box for VaR on this occasion.

 

Agreed but rather bizarrely on the get involved referee podcast which I find informative and impartial to not covering up for referees they said the yellow card was down to “not denying a goal scoring opportunity” as Sibbick was able to net rebound but I think your view is correct

[DETTY29]

So we need to be saying that the ball had indeed crossed the line before Clancy blew up which is why the offside was checked.

 

Just from the highlights I'm sure he was trying to blow before the ball had.

[Hagar the Horrible]

What ever happened to cant penalise a goal

[loveofthegame]

On 03/01/2023 at 00:57, Melbourne Jambo said:

He indicated to SIbbick that he'd blown the foul for a push. Reckon he's thought Sibbick pushed Bashiri 😂

 

Think that has to be right. It is decisions like that which do make you somewhat grateful for VAR. Whole game potentially changes if we don't get the penalty there for such a terrible refereeing decision. 

 

A lot of work needed on VAR but we're getting pretty decent change out of it at present.

[Armageddon]

On 02/01/2023 at 18:54, karipidis said:

It was offside. 

 

You would think he would just let the game run, if a goal is scored then it gets ruled off through VAR or a free kick, he had the best view of the handball but called them a free kick when the lino hadn't even flagged (unless they are talking through the earpiece).

[henryheart]

3 hours ago, happyjam said:

 

On your first point does anyone know who controls the messages that are shown on the screen is it Hears or the VaR officials back in Glasgow.

 

Having watched it a few times and my take on it is

1. Clancy thought Halliday had fouled the Hibs player but played on as he wasn't 100% sure so let play continue.

2. Ball broke to Devlin who had a shot that was deflected by a Hibs player then hit Rocky's arm.

3. Ball then broke to Sibbick who put it in the back of the net.

4. Clancy blew for what he thought was the initial foul.

 

In terms of VaR checks my take on it is 

1. They quickly dismissed the initial foul (and was therefore never shown on screen).

2. Proceeded to check Offside and and the Goal as displayed on the big screens.

 

In terms of the VaR decisions my take on it is  

1.   The goal was correctly chalked off as Sibbick was offside at the initial shot but was considered to be inactive at this point but active after the ball hit Rocky.

2.  The penalty was correctly awarded for handball.

3.  The yellow card was given for the handball.  In my opinion the correct result, my initial thoughts on seeing it at full speed are the ball was going directly towards the goal but having slowed it down I think the direction of the ball from the deflection to Rocky is the ball is possibly going passed the post and therefore inconclusive.

 

My verdict is that VaR got all the decisions correct albeit at the game it did seem to take a long time, although this was probably down to the number of incidents that took place and the lack of camera angles available.  

 

While very frustrating that it took longer than we would have liked I'm just glad the correct decision was made and a tick in the box for VaR on this occasion.

 

 

My only issue with what you write is point 1 which I have underlined.

 

If what you are suggesting is correct the penalty would not have been given as it is the first offence that determines the decision. Hibs would have been awarded a free kick for offside.

 

Sibbick was initially in an offside position but inactive. The review for offside agreed with this, so play could continue without a free kick being awarded. The next step was to assess the next potential offence, which was handball. Devlin's shot was handled by the defender holding his arm in an unnatural position, before the ball broke to Sibbick who was by then onside.

 

A player who was inactive in the first phase but in an offside position cannot retrospectively be flagged for offside because he scores in a later phase. After all, his initial position was deemed not to be interfering with play; his previous offside position was not relevant. If it had been, as the first offence Hibs would have been awarded a free kick with no requirement to move on and consider handball.  Stuart Dougal agreed that there was no offside offence, and the goal was chalked off only because of the handball.

 

Given that Hearts scored in the second(s) that followed it can only be concluded that Clancy took the position that he blew his whistle before Sibbick shot, otherwise he had the option of playing advantage and giving the goal without the need for a penalty.   

[XB52]

All around us were moaning about var ruining the game and it does really need to be speeded up. Having said that, no var, no penalty for us so it did its job

[soonbe110]

4 minutes ago, henryheart said:

 

My only issue with what you write is point 1 which I have underlined.

 

If what you are suggesting is correct the penalty would not have been given as it is the first offence that determines the decision. Hibs would have been awarded a free kick for offside.

 

Sibbick was initially in an offside position but inactive. The review for offside agreed with this, so play could continue without a free kick being awarded. The next step was to assess the next potential offence, which was handball. Devlin's shot was handled by the defender holding his arm in an unnatural position, before the ball broke to Sibbick who was by then onside.

 

A player who was inactive in the first phase but in an offside position cannot retrospectively be flagged for offside because he scores in a later phase. After all, his initial position was deemed not to be interfering with play; his previous offside position was not relevant. If it had been, as the first offence Hibs would have been awarded a free kick with no requirement to move on and consider handball.  Stuart Dougal agreed that there was no offside offence, and the goal was chalked off only because of the handball.

 

Given that Hearts scored in the second(s) that followed it can only be concluded that Clancy took the position that he blew his whistle before Sibbick shot, otherwise he had the option of playing advantage and giving the goal without the need for a penalty.   

Clancy again though - what a clown.  Especially for all the punters who had taken Sibbick at circa 30/1 to score anytime. 

[happyjam]

1 hour ago, henryheart said:

 

My only issue with what you write is point 1 which I have underlined.

 

If what you are suggesting is correct the penalty would not have been given as it is the first offence that determines the decision. Hibs would have been awarded a free kick for offside.

 

Sibbick was initially in an offside position but inactive. The review for offside agreed with this, so play could continue without a free kick being awarded. The next step was to assess the next potential offence, which was handball. Devlin's shot was handled by the defender holding his arm in an unnatural position, before the ball broke to Sibbick who was by then onside.

 

A player who was inactive in the first phase but in an offside position cannot retrospectively be flagged for offside because he scores in a later phase. After all, his initial position was deemed not to be interfering with play; his previous offside position was not relevant. If it had been, as the first offence Hibs would have been awarded a free kick with no requirement to move on and consider handball.  Stuart Dougal agreed that there was no offside offence, and the goal was chalked off only because of the handball.

 

Given that Hearts scored in the second(s) that followed it can only be concluded that Clancy took the position that he blew his whistle before Sibbick shot, otherwise he had the option of playing advantage and giving the goal without the need for a penalty.   

 

My understanding is that 

 

If the ball had hit Rocky's chest and Sibbick put the ball in the net he would be offside as it would be treated as a single phase i.e. there was technically no stop in play as no foul had been committed - During this phase Sibbick is moving from Inactive to active.

 

The issue is the ball hit Rocky's arm and that is deemed the end of a phase as a foul had been committed.  Sibbick being offisde at that point is irrelevant as he wasn't interfering with play and is classed as being inactive.

 

If Sibbick had been onside when Devlin hit his shot and the ball hit Rocky's arm then Sibbicks goal would have stood as the advantage rule would have applied.