Sweden.

[Francis Albert]

I took a lot of flack on here by praising Sweden's approach to the pandemic. Does anyone now think Sweden was wrong and we were right?

[henrysmithsgloves]

I found their instructions easy to understand 

[IronJambo]

They told people they could do what they want?

 

Our government told us we couldn't do anything so people done what they wanted.

 

Same result but I don't think that makes the Swedish way of not handling it better.

[Francis Albert]

Bars and restaurants stayed open. Economy not trashed. Infections and deaths lower. What is not to like about the Swedish approach?

 

 

 

[Tazio]

Sweden also altered their original stance and imposed some regulations so it wasn’t the free for all utopia you imagine. 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Tazio

[indianajones]

With hindsight even though a lot said it at the time (including myself), the lockdowns were a complete disaster and did more damage than good. 

[Francis Albert]

2 minutes ago, Tazio said:

Sweden also altered their original stance and imposed some regulations so it wasn’t the free for all utopia you imagine. 

I did not suggest it was a  free for all utopia Just that it was and has proved to be much better than ours and that of most of Europe.

[kila]

UK economy issues because of COVID or Brexit and Queen’s funeral?

[vegas-voss]

3 minutes ago, indianajones said:

With hindsight even though a lot said it at the time (including myself), the lockdowns were a complete disaster and did more damage than good. 

I just think we done everything a bit too late - we had lockdowns too late then maybe stayed in lockdowns too long and we done this each and every time.

[vegas-voss]

Things like we are in lockdown but not until after the weekend so go out on the lash while you can.Didnt really make sense to me 🤣

[indianajones]

Just now, vegas-voss said:

I just think we done everything a bit too late - we had lockdowns too late then maybe stayed in lockdowns too long and we done this each and every time.

 

There were many other basic things we could've done but didn't. Flights coming in from India and other highly infectious places then just given a warm 'welcome to London' instead of being quarantined etc. The complete shutdown of life as we know it though was the wrong call. It really was short sighted to the extreme.

[vegas-voss]

Go to the pub but you have to have a meal.Didnt make sense to me 

[indianajones]

2 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

Go to the pub but you have to have a meal.Didnt make sense to me 

 

Go to the pub but dont stand up and wear your mask when you go to the toilet. 

 

They just spoke pish for two straight years. 

[Bindy Badgy]

Going from memory here so happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. The countries that seemed to do the best, such as Vietnam, hit it hard and fast as soon as the news started breaking. We pissed about, held the Cheltenham Festival, allowed Atletico fans to come over for the Liverpool game even though Madrid was in lockdown at the time, and then went into lockdown light. Lockdowns were probably the correct approach but, the way that we did it was shambolic.

[Cade]

No.

The Swedish public could be trusted to be careful without state sanction.

 

The British public are complete feckin morons and even despite harsh lockdowns the UK has one of the worst record in Europe.

Are you seriously saying that the UK would have come out better if we just tried to ignore covid and bash on as normal?

 

[FWJ]

3 minutes ago, Cade said:

No.

The Swedish public could be trusted to be careful without state sanction.

 

The British public are complete feckin morons and even despite harsh lockdowns the UK has one of the worst record in Europe.

Are you seriously saying that the UK would have come out better if we just tried to ignore covid and bash on as normal?

 

This is more or less exactly what I was going to post.

Plenty of Brits who know better and did what they pleased.  The same ones that would have howled if the NHS collapsed under the caseload had it been allowed to ‘let rip’

Edited November 20, 2022 by FWJ

[milky_26]

5 minutes ago, Bindy Badgy said:

Going from memory here so happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. The countries that seemed to do the best, such as Vietnam, hit it hard and fast as soon as the news started breaking. We pissed about, held the Cheltenham Festival, allowed Atletico fans to come over for the Liverpool game even though Madrid was in lockdown at the time, and then went into lockdown light. Lockdowns were probably the correct approach but, the way that we did it was shambolic.

the problem was at the time of the CL game and cheltenham a lot of the western world did not take it seriously. it was assumed it would be like the swine flu or simliar and basically not affect us. Just look at the opening few pages of the covid thread to see peoples initial reactions to it before lockdown happened

[vegas-voss]

8 minutes ago, Cade said:

No.

The Swedish public could be trusted to be careful without state sanction.

 

The British public are complete feckin morons and even despite harsh lockdowns the UK has one of the worst record in Europe.

Are you seriously saying that the UK would have come out better if we just tried to ignore covid and bash on as normal?

 

Aye aree we Def needed them just always a bit sooner than they done them though 

[vegas-voss]

Another one them saying it was not an airborne virus at the start of the pandemic.I mean come on surely to **** they must have always known it was.

Edited November 20, 2022 by vegas-voss

[Francis Albert]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

No.

The Swedish public could be trusted to be careful without state sanction.

 

The British public are complete feckin morons and even despite harsh lockdowns the UK has one of the worst record in Europe.

Are you seriously saying that the UK would have come out better if we just tried to ignore covid and bash on as normal?

 

The British public are not so very different from the Swedish public. A minority responded to harsh lockdowns here as they did elsewhere where strict lockdowns were imposed. I did not suggest we should have just bashed on as normal but just like the Swedes we should have not have reacted as we did. As far as I can see the Swedes were right in the short term and even more so in the longer term

 

[Nucky Thompson]

It was a total over reaction in most of Europe and looking back, it was fecking laughable

 

Sturgeon had us still wearing masks a year after England had ditched them 

 

People from Edinburgh couldn't go to Midlothian, people from Midlothian couldn't go to East Lothian 

And people are desperate for Sturgeon and her clowns to have full control 

 

[redjambo]

The best comparison to make with Sweden is with its Nordic neighbours.

 

Conveniently, here is a research study that does exactly that: https://jogh.org/2022/jogh-12-05017

 

The conclusions? (my emphasis)

 

There was no trade-off between public health policy and economy during the COVID-19 pandemic in the Nordic region. Sweden’s relaxed and delayed COVID-19 health policy response did not benefit the economy in the short term, while leading to disproportionate COVID-19 hospitalizations and mortality.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

Probably easier to control a pandemic in a country with a small population rather than our 70 million imo

[redjambo]

10 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The British public are not so very different from the Swedish public. A minority responded to harsh lockdowns here as they did elsewhere where strict lockdowns were imposed. I did not suggest we should have just bashed on as normal but just like the Swedes we should have not have reacted as we did. As far as I can see the Swedes were right in the short term and even more so in the longer term

 

 

Perhaps you should look at the research study I linked to above which shows this not to have been the case. I can't believe that you're still banging on about this. Did others offend you in some way by criticising your stance? Have you smouldered with indignation about it ever since?

Edited November 20, 2022 by redjambo

[Nucky Thompson]

Just now, **** the SPFL said:

Probably easier to control a pandemic in a country with a small population rather than our 70 million imo

What about a country with 5 million like Scotland 

 

Copy your bigger Neighbours 3 weeks later, or try and pre-empt them and make a total erse of yourself 

 

 

[theshed]

Mind the two women having a cup of tea at the Edinburgh/ East Lothian border or something like that. 
 

I couldn’t walk along into portobello from Musselburgh if I mind right 🙈🙈
 

Sit having a drink with a crowd of us but put a mask on to stand up to walk to the toilet.

 

Could be here all night talking about some of those crazy rules 

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said:

Probably easier to control a pandemic in a country with a small population rather than our 70 million imo

A bigger population than Scotland. And similarly urbanised.

[OmiyaHearts]

11 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It was a total over reaction in most of Europe and looking back, it was fecking laughable

 

Sturgeon had us still wearing masks a year after England had ditched them 

 

People from Edinburgh couldn't go to Midlothian, people from Midlothian couldn't go to East Lothian 

And people are desperate for Sturgeon and her clowns to have full control 

 

Very surprised you took this opportunity to slag Sturgeon. Really out of character.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, OmiyaHearts said:

Very surprised you took this opportunity to slag Sturgeon. Really out of character.

 

 

[Lord Montpelier]

17 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

It was a total over reaction in most of Europe and looking back, it was fecking laughable

 

Sturgeon had us still wearing masks a year after England had ditched them 

 

People from Edinburgh couldn't go to Midlothian, people from Midlothian couldn't go to East Lothian 

And people are desperate for Sturgeon and her clowns to have full control 

 

Would not surprise me if Sturgeon didn't try find a way to ruin Christmas again this year , she hates people having fun and has shown it. 

[graygo]

18 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Perhaps you should look at the research study I linked to above which shows this not to have been the case. I can't believe that you're still banging on about this. Did others offend you in some way by criticising your stance? Have you smouldered with indignation about it ever since?

 

I'm not sure who to believe, these guys or Mr Albert.

[Francis Albert]

14 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Perhaps you should look at the research study I linked to above which shows this not to have been the case. I can't believe that you're still banging on about this. Did others offend you in some way by criticising your stance? Have you smouldered with indignation about it ever since?

A comparison with other Nordic countries which are not really compatible with the more industrialised and urbanised Sweden.  Let alone the rest of Europe. And no one has offended me. And  I am not smouldering with indignation. What is your problem?

[milky_26]

20 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said:

Probably easier to control a pandemic in a country with a small population rather than our 70 million imo

it is also easier to do in a country which is not a major transport hub. However that is something we should have stopped as one of the first things, only allowing UK residents in

[graygo]

14 minutes ago, theshed said:

Mind the two women having a cup of tea at the Edinburgh/ East Lothian border or something like that. 
 

I couldn’t walk along into portobello from Musselburgh if I mind right 🙈🙈
 

Sit having a drink with a crowd of us but put a mask on to stand up to walk to the toilet.

 

Could be here all night talking about some of those crazy rules 

 

Crazy made up rules you mean.

 

Anyone living near a border was free to cross into a neighbouring area, 12 miles from memory so Musselburgh to Portobello was fine. 

 

[milky_26]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

I'm not sure who to believe, these guys or Mr Albert.

FA, all those listed are quite clearly part of the deep state 

[graygo]

6 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Would not surprise me if Sturgeon didn't try find a way to ruin Christmas again this year , she hates people having fun and has shown it. 

 

Christ Almighty, did you think that post was clever? 

[Nucky Thompson]

6 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Christ Almighty, did you think that post was clever? 

Not seen the Dentist for a while.

I'm sure he'll be absolutely gagging on a comeback 

I'm surprised he didn't get invited to the World Cup by the BBC

Edited November 20, 2022 by Nucky Thompson

[theshed]

10 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Crazy made up rules you mean.

 

Anyone living near a border was free to cross into a neighbouring area, 12 miles from memory so Musselburgh to Portobello was fine. 

 

In what way did I make it up?

 

East Lothian was in a lower tier and Edinburgh in higher tier if I mind right and you weren’t allowed to travel into a different council area 

 

I’m sure someone with more knowledge could back this up 

 

 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

26 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

FA, all those listed are quite clearly part of the deep state 

I have no idea what they are or how the list contributes to the debate such as it is.

Nothing so said has contradicted my view that Sweden handled COVID better than most including the UK in the short and in particular long term. 

And my view that Sweden should be a model for our national treasure the NHS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 20, 2022 by Francis Albert

[Negan]

33 minutes ago, Lord Montpelier said:

Would not surprise me if Sturgeon didn't try find a way to ruin Christmas again this year , she hates people having fun and has shown it. 

this

[graygo]

28 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

Not seen the Dentist for a while.

I'm sure he'll be absolutely gagging on a comeback 

I'm surprised he didn't get invited to the World Cup by the BBC

 

See that bit in bold?  That line alone makes the rest of your post look absolutely dingbat stupid. 

[graygo]

20 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I have no idea what they are or how the list contributes to the debate such as it is.

Nothing so said has contradicted my view that Sweden handled COVID better than most including the UK in the short and in particular long term. 

And my view that Sweden should be a model for our national treasure the NHS

 

 

Maybe if you had bothered to read the reply posted to you by red you would have an idea about who they are.

[graygo]

With a bit of luck this thread will get merged into the mental covid thread where it belongs.

[151]

1 hour ago, vegas-voss said:

Go to the pub but you have to have a meal.Didnt make sense to me 

 

In the many examples of the government ripping the pish out paranoid folk I genuinely forgot this one

 

How anyone went along with any of it is frightening.

[Costanza]

Seems like a lot of assertions being made without any data to back it up.

 

To try and compare at any sensible level would need to compare overall death toll,long term morbidity i.e. long covid, economic growth,  impact on the health service,  waiting lists etc. But then you would need to factor in investment in the health service, built in economic and health service resilience pre covid, when and how covid restrictions were put in place, industrial strategy post covid, comparisons of relative health in the population pre covid, comparison of urbanisation and population density, comparison of any inward travel into the country and what if any restrictions were put in place there, factor in other areas that may have impacted economic recovery e.g. for example changes in trading relationships etc etc.

 

That or a nice graph.

[escobri]

Big disappointment when I opened this thread. So here's what I wanted to see

 

[Dick Dastardly]

3 minutes ago, escobri said:

Big disappointment when I opened this thread. So here's what I wanted to see

 

 

[Nucky Thompson]

27 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

See that bit in bold?  That line alone makes the rest of your post look absolutely dingbat stupid. 

Says the man who follows his team all the way to Europe, doesn't go into the game and falls down a set of stairs on the way back 

Now that's dingbat stupid 

[Lord Montpelier]

1 hour ago, graygo said:

 

Christ Almighty, did you think that post was clever? 

I can only imagine you struggle with memory loss and have forgotten about Sturgeons massively ill judged over reaction to Omicron last year. 

[Lord Montpelier]

1 minute ago, jonesy said:

I haven't. 

 

I can only imagine that the comfort blanket of being told to stay at home, watch Netflix and bake bread was appealing to a great many.

All about telling each other to "stay safe" nowadays, Jonesy.