Var .....superthread

[Canscot]

15 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

That's what I thought too, how on earth was Kyogo not interfering with play there. 

Very simple. Because he plays for Septic!😉

[BackOfTheNet]

The main argument against it is it saps energy out of the game. Personally I felt it added drama, tension and that brought its own energy with it. It gets the big decisions right, and the ones that are questionable are down to referees making the decisions, which is how it was anyway. There are genuinely some that would have wanted us not to get a penalty against Celtic or Ross County to have a goal that shouldn’t stand stand, just because they don’t wan’t fans to celebrate and then think they look stupid of the decision is overturned. I’d rather things be fair. But that’s just me.

[Wee Mikey]

19 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

That's what I thought too, how on earth was Kyogo not interfering with play there. 

 

Yup, Kyogo ended up standing right in front of the 'keeper thus unsighting him.

[JimmyCant]

So far I like it on balance.

 

1. It’s taking too long but it’s still bedding in and I don’t think there are as many cameras as the English system. That can be fixed

 

2. Celtic and Rangers and Hibs all got dodgy penalties this weekend. Checked and confirmed by VAR. Possibly it’s this law that needs looked at again to be fair though. The original law says ‘deliberate’ We are miles away from deliberate now.

 

3. Tony Watt is never a red card and will be rescinded.

Edited October 31, 2022 by JimmyCant

[Unknown user]

32 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

The main argument against it is it saps energy out of the game. Personally I felt it added drama, tension and that brought its own energy with it. It gets the big decisions right, and the ones that are questionable are down to referees making the decisions, which is how it was anyway. There are genuinely some that would have wanted us not to get a penalty against Celtic or Ross County to have a goal that shouldn’t stand stand, just because they don’t wan’t fans to celebrate and then think they look stupid of the decision is overturned. I’d rather things be fair. But that’s just me.

 

It's not the drama for me, I just don't see the point in such a big change. We've seen time and time again that it misses plenty but catches things that are too fine to call with the naked eye, which seems a bit much to me. If it causes as much controversy as it saves, are the expense and the change worth it?

 

I'm not convinced, although it's given me a couple of chuckles so far TBF.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

So the lino got both calls correct before VAR kicked in? Who needs it if officials actually do their jobs?

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

2 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

So the lino got both calls correct before VAR kicked in? Who needs it if officials actually do their jobs?

We did for our first pen last week which was a stonewaller 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

5 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

So far I like it on balance.

 

1. It’s taking too long but it’s still bedding in and I don’t think there are as many cameras as the English system. That can be fixed

 

2. Celtic and Rangers and Hibs all got dodgy penalties this weekend. Checked and confirmed by VAR. Possibly it’s this law that needs looked at again to be fair though. The original law says ‘deliberate’ We are miles away from deliberate now.

 

3. Tony Watt is never a red card and will be rescinded.

That was a definite red card, got him right below the knee (and made contact).

 

https://twitter.com/pieandbov/status/1586735780852031489?t=lpow6eol8mryRPqBXEo8-w&s=19

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Joey J J Jr Shabadoo

[Aussie Jambo]

Naw. That third goal was never off side. Those camera shots are terrible. How the hell could the refs see that? They need to be higher up. 

[Dazo]

6 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

Now VAR is close to home it just shows up how many of us neither understand the laws of the game nor how officials are asked to interpret them.

To be fair JKB has been doing that for years. 
 

 

Other than the time taken for the checks Var has been great. It isn’t perfect but that is mostly down to the comment quoted, it will get better and quicker. Those moaning no doubt the same ones moaning about when decisions are wrong. 

[Newton51]

1 minute ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

That was a definite red card, got him right below the knee (and made contact).

I thought so too but sportscene and sky both thought it was never a red 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 minute ago, Newton51 said:

I thought so too but sportscene and sky both thought it was never a red 

They're both wrong, then.

 

 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

I think it’s good that it’s been adopted in the top league, don’t like it go and watch your local juniors team. This is the elite level of our national game, big decisions must be right and it should be the same type of refereeing as the Premier League and all the big leagues in world football as well as the World Cup.
 

it’s about continually improving it now, obviously some old duffers hate to see any change but if it increases the number of correct decisions then I cannot see any decent arguments against it. We spend so much energy as fans fuming at refs, this is there to help refs get it right.

Edited October 31, 2022 by A_A wehatethehibs

[PapaShango]

The offside calls are the main one than needed looked at but seems refs and linesman are waiting on VAR. The goal Hibs scored that was disallowed was miles offside so how the linesman doesn’t put his flag up is beyond me. Hopefully the process speeds up a bit. That was a stick on red card against us yesterday as well off the ground and in with force! 

[KyleLafferty]

It’s been fine so far. Just needs to speed up with decisions but that will come. Handball rule is clear, and offside rule is clear.

[jock _turd]

8 hours ago, Morgan said:

It certainly helped us today.  

 

I’m a fan.

 

I don't think it changed anything Morgan . The lino's gave flags at both offsides ... I was more worried that VAR was going to change the offside for the County disallowed goal . As to VAR I am a bit meh on it mainly because it takes a long time to say yes or no but then again they are taking offsides to ridiculous extremes now . 

[Dazo]

18 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

I don't think it changed anything Morgan . The lino's gave flags at both offsides ... I was more worried that VAR was going to change the offside for the County disallowed goal . As to VAR I am a bit meh on it mainly because it takes a long time to say yes or no but then again they are taking offsides to ridiculous extremes now . 

The offsides aren’t extreme, they just have the precision they didn’t have before. 

[a11ank]

I like it!

 

Scotlands 2 biggest cheats fell foul of it last weekend!

 

Kyogo from Celtic won't score as many as last season, as the half of them that are offside this year, won't count!

[jock _turd]

17 minutes ago, Dazo said:

The offsides aren’t extreme, they just have the precision they didn’t have before. 

 

When I say extreme what I mean is impossible to see with the human eye during a match. VAR is freezing a frame and making offside decisions in terms of centimeters... that is extreme no lino can make that decision it not possible. So in real terms these are extreme decisions compared to what went before.

[TheBigO]

9 hours ago, Phil D. Corners said:

It gives us something to talk about down the pub! 🤷🏻‍♂️

Haha. My main complaint prevar was that "fitbaws for talking aboot in the pub".

 

Love it. That'll never die!!!!

[Haken]

My view:

 

Has VAR made things worse?  No

 

Has VAR added any value?  Yes.

 

Will VAR still get things wrong?  Yes.

 

Without it, we didn't get the first penalty against Celtic.  VAR led to the correct decision and, psychologically, I think that was huge for our players.  Had we not got that decision, the mindset may have been, 'Here we go again, getting nothing against this lot'.

 

Personally, I'd rather have a wee pause before the correct decision is reached rather than no pause for the wrong decision to be reached.

[dazajmbo]

1 hour ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

They're both wrong, then.

 

 

 

It's not wreckless or out of control, but its high. Red card for me

[TheBigO]

8 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

When I say extreme what I mean is impossible to see with the human eye during a match. VAR is freezing a frame and making offside decisions in terms of centimeters... that is extreme no lino can make that decision it not possible. So in real terms these are extreme decisions compared to what went before.

Issue we have is our refs don't have human eyes in Scotland. They're all rats and snakes

[Dazo]

15 minutes ago, jock _turd said:

 

When I say extreme what I mean is impossible to see with the human eye during a match. VAR is freezing a frame and making offside decisions in terms of centimeters... that is extreme no lino can make that decision it not possible. So in real terms these are extreme decisions compared to what went before.

Still going for precision. These are correct decisions compared to what went on before. 

[jock _turd]

10 minutes ago, TheBigO said:

Issue we have is our refs don't have human eyes in Scotland. They're all rats and snakes

🤣

[Smoked-Glass]

8 hours ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Hate it. Can’t wait for it to be eventually (I know it’ll take years) binned. 

What makes you think it will be binned? 🤷

[hmfc_liam06]

My only complaint are offside decisions.

 

Using lines to determine the strikers toe nail is offside isn't correcting clear and obvious errors. There should be a tolerance built in to offside calls.

[BackOfTheNet]

7 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

It's not the drama for me, I just don't see the point in such a big change. We've seen time and time again that it misses plenty but catches things that are too fine to call with the naked eye, which seems a bit much to me. If it causes as much controversy as it saves, are the expense and the change worth it?

 

I'm not convinced, although it's given me a couple of chuckles so far TBF.

Lower levels probably not. But at the highest levels where the cost of a defeat isn’t just two points dropped but potentially club saving cash missed out on, referees need more then their naked eye. It’s too much to ask of referees, especially amateur Scottish ones who often have second jobs, to burden the pressures alone.

Too long we just accepted incompetence (or some accused of corruption, but could hide behind incompetence), but now we have something in place to keep them right. And there’s more accountability. They will still get decisions wrong (like Tony Watt on Saturday for instance) but more often than not it will be fair. County’s goal chopped off a perfect example, now we don’t know how that game will pan out if it’s given as there’s no guarantee we’d respond like we did when they eventually did go ahead, but let’s say they end up winning 1-0 and then on TV replays we see he was offside. We wouldn’t just mumble cest la vie and say “well it’s difficult to see with the naked eye”, we’d act hard done by because we’d have legitimate gripe to do so. With VAR we don’t have to make excuses (most of the time). So it’s not just accountability for referees, it means teams, players and managers can’t make excuses either (again, most of the time).

[BackOfTheNet]

2 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

My only complaint are offside decisions.

 

Using lines to determine the strikers toe nail is offside isn't correcting clear and obvious errors. There should be a tolerance built in to offside calls.

I think that’s when it first came in in England. We have it so that a body part you can score with is offside. Shankland’s disallowed deflected goal yesterday for example, the Coubty’s defender’s arm/hand is actually closest to goal, but Shankland’s leg/knee is ahead of the defender’s. It seems harsh and all, but for me offside is offside whether it’s a centimetre or a yard. Building in a tolerance means you’d have then build in a tolerance on the tolerance level eventually. They do what they do with the thickness of lines, I think that’s enough.

[Fozzyonthefence]

2 hours ago, Aussie Jambo said:

Naw. That third goal was never off side. Those camera shots are terrible. How the hell could the refs see that? They need to be higher up. 

It was offside.  The linesman got it right and VAR proved it.  Hand ball penalty decisions can be subjective and down to referee interpretation but offsides are not - the technology proves it is offside or onside (and it doesn’t wear maroon tinted goggles!).

[hmfc_liam06]

3 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I think that’s when it first came in in England. We have it so that a body part you can score with is offside. Shankland’s disallowed deflected goal yesterday for example, the Coubty’s defender’s arm/hand is actually closest to goal, but Shankland’s leg/knee is ahead of the defender’s. It seems harsh and all, but for me offside is offside whether it’s a centimetre or a yard. Building in a tolerance means you’d have then build in a tolerance on the tolerance level eventually. They do what they do with the thickness of lines, I think that’s enough.

 

Aye fair enough. I dunno though, going to such detail isn't fixing "clear and obvious" errors.

[Absolute Scenes]

we were granted two pens against Celtic - when in this current universe would that have ever occurred. Our third goal yesterday was correctly chalked off because he was offside when the ball was played. I am all for it

 

My frustrations with though are that the scenario of the challenge on McKay yesterday are not looked at. If McKay had landed and rolled about in pain its a different story - just shows how much of a professional Barrie is. 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, BackOfTheNet said:

Lower levels probably not. But at the highest levels where the cost of a defeat isn’t just two points dropped but potentially club saving cash missed out on, referees need more then their naked eye. It’s too much to ask of referees, especially amateur Scottish ones who often have second jobs, to burden the pressures alone.

Too long we just accepted incompetence (or some accused of corruption, but could hide behind incompetence), but now we have something in place to keep them right. And there’s more accountability. They will still get decisions wrong (like Tony Watt on Saturday for instance) but more often than not it will be fair. County’s goal chopped off a perfect example, now we don’t know how that game will pan out if it’s given as there’s no guarantee we’d respond like we did when they eventually did go ahead, but let’s say they end up winning 1-0 and then on TV replays we see he was offside. We wouldn’t just mumble cest la vie and say “well it’s difficult to see with the naked eye”, we’d act hard done by because we’d have legitimate gripe to do so. With VAR we don’t have to make excuses (most of the time). So it’s not just accountability for referees, it means teams, players and managers can’t make excuses either (again, most of the time).

They might be part time but they're certainly not amateur, the money they get!

 

I get it, I don't agree though, we're still talking about Watt's red, the tackle on McKay, chopped off goals, etc.

I don't see enough of a gain to justify it, but it's here now so little point moaning about it.

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

3 hours ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

We did for our first pen last week which was a stonewaller 

You're making my point. 

[AlphonseCapone]

6 hours ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

So the lino got both calls correct before VAR kicked in? Who needs it if officials actually do their jobs?

 

Unfortunately we know they don't do their jobs too often, and too often that benefits specific teams. 

[Bazzas right boot]

8 hours ago, OTT said:

If Refs could be trusted it wouldn't be needed.

 

Sadly, I think they're now shit scared to make a decision at all now. 

 

I just want calls to be correct 100% of the time. There will be ups and downs to it. 

 

I also think FIFA have got needlessly pernickety over the offside rule. Just make it clear daylight between the attacker and last defender. We want to see goals, this gives the momentum to the attacker. Shanklands 2nd being offside just feels very unnecessary. Like, if you need a camera to pinpoint how he was offside by 1mm, then I don't think much if any competitive advantage was gained...  Shit like that ruins the spectacle for me. Its overly technical. 

 

That's not VAR tho, that's the rules or interpretation of the rules.

 

Offside should have a margin of error,  if its less than 6 inches or 3 inches ( something like that)then it's onside. 

 

For a handball, anything hit with 3 or  yards isn't a handball ( unless the player goes towards the ball for example to save it.)

 

Easy to do, especially with the handball. 

Could even say that anything above the elbow isn't a handball or even just the hand, not the arm.

 

[Mr Kipling]

11 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Only complaint so far is it's a bit slow to get a decision. 

Me too. But I do think that as the games progress, it will become better. A few initial and understandable teething problems.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Mr Kipling

[Smoked-Glass]

8 minutes ago, Mr Kipling said:

Me too. But I do think that as the games progress, it will become better. A few initial and understandable teething problems.

They ve had it since 2019 was it not?

[Haken]

15 minutes ago, Bazzas right boot said:

 

That's not VAR tho, that's the rules or interpretation of the rules.

 

Offside should have a margin of error,  if its less than 6 inches or 3 inches ( something like that)then it's onside. 

 

For a handball, anything hit with 3 or  yards isn't a handball ( unless the player goes towards the ball for example to save it.)

 

Easy to do, especially with the handball. 

Could even say that anything above the elbow isn't a handball or even just the hand, not the arm.

 

That doesn't really change anything; it just moves the offside line forward 3 or 6 inches.  The debate then becomes was whatever body part 2.5 inches or 3.5 offside?  

 

There's always going to be marginal decisions with offside until such times as players wear GPS devices that are accurate to within millimetres.

[Zico]

10 hours ago, Armageddon said:

Hibs had a penalty disallowed last week because of an offside, we had a goal against disallowed today for an offside, Celtic had a goal chopped last week for a foul in the cross, we were awarded a stone-waller last week that we weren’t getting.   Boyle has been booked for diving and Porteous box dives ignored.

 

All these would have been allowed to run pre-VAR.   Shocking.

 

I like it and I’m glad it’s here to stay.

Agreed. The fact the OF were the last teams to support it’s implementation and their fans already hate it tells you all you need to know. 

[Ballitojambo]

I would be interested in hearing why they thought that lunge on Mckay wasn't worth looking at, refs attention was on Shankland for his foul, surely var should have been calling the refs attention to the lunge, but overall im a fan of var just need to speed those decisions up a bit.

[Dick Dastardly]

It definitely takes far too long to get the decision, thats my main problem. I'm hoping this time will decrease as the operators get fully up to speed with the technology. 

[Thomaso]

20 minutes ago, Ballitojambo said:

I would be interested in hearing why they thought that lunge on Mckay wasn't worth looking at, refs attention was on Shankland for his foul, surely var should have been calling the refs attention to the lunge, but overall im a fan of var just need to speed those decisions up a bit.

That was a red all day long!

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, BackOfTheNet said:

I think that’s when it first came in in England. We have it so that a body part you can score with is offside. Shankland’s disallowed deflected goal yesterday for example, the Coubty’s defender’s arm/hand is actually closest to goal, but Shankland’s leg/knee is ahead of the defender’s. It seems harsh and all, but for me offside is offside whether it’s a centimetre or a yard. Building in a tolerance means you’d have then build in a tolerance on the tolerance level eventually. They do what they do with the thickness of lines, I think that’s enough.

Yeh I saw the RC players arm was in front of Shankland - but is the offside rule based on a body part that can legally score a goal? 🤔

[jambo-in-furness]

11 hours ago, Cade said:

The technology is fine.

The problem is still the human element.

VAR misses stuff that it should be picking up on.
And the guys manning the video room often get things wrong.

Some VAR decisions in England are laughable.

 

The system is only as good as the people operating it and most of them are the same biased, corrupt and incompetent tits that run up and down the touchline.

This 100%

[BackOfTheNet]

33 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

Yeh I saw the RC players arm was in front of Shankland - but is the offside rule based on a body part that can legally score a goal? 🤔

Yes

[kingantti1874]

11 hours ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

Hate it. Can’t wait for it to be eventually (I know it’ll take years) binned. 

It will be binned when the finances of the EPL collapse..

 

never ever

Edited October 31, 2022 by kingantti1874

[Taffin]

 

VAR is good for offside as someone is either onside, or offside. 

 

For everything else it's rubbish imo.

[The Hogfather]

11 hours ago, Armageddon said:

Hibs had a penalty disallowed last week because of an offside, we had a goal against disallowed today for an offside, Celtic had a goal chopped last week for a foul in the cross, we were awarded a stone-waller last week that we weren’t getting.   Boyle has been booked for diving and Porteous box dives ignored.

 

All these would have been allowed to run pre-VAR.   Shocking.

 

I like it and I’m glad it’s here to stay.

 

Literally the only decision that was given by VAR was the Hearts penalty. On-field match officials gave everything else and those incidents were checked to make sure they were correct.

[WageThief]

1 hour ago, Haken said:

There's always going to be marginal decisions with offside until such times as players wear GPS devices that are accurate to within millimetres.

 

Yeah if they can ever create something that's instant(ish) and not really arguable like goal line technology, that'd pretty much resolve the whole issue with offside.  I suppose you'd need a GPS device in the ball too.