jamboinglasgow Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 28 minutes ago, Queensland Jambo said: When does his current contact end? 2025. I would hope we would be looking to extend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 8 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said: 2025. I would hope we would be looking to extend it. Makes sense to do it before he plays any first team football. Know what players are like these days, and considering the circumstances we got him, probably makes sense to make sure the clubs interest is protected before integrating him into the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) Look at Liam Scales, Celtic loaned him out to Aberdeen for a season at the age of 23 and at times he looked out of his depth. I thought he had no chance. He was still playing League of Ireland at 22. Look at him now, first name on the teamsheet at the back for them. Neilson only 20, he has plenty of time and no rush to bring him back from Partick, even scope to loan him out next season to the Premiership if we still have sufficient cover. 8 U21 caps under his belt as well. Edited January 4 by Chuck Berry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selkirkhmfc1874 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Leave him where he is for rest of season, he's playing everyweek gaining valuable experience and hopefully come back in summer , get good pre season and push for 1st team next season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 If we still have a fit Rowles, Kent and Halkett in the summer, there won't really be a place for him so if that's the case I'd be looking to loan him out again to top division side til January at least and extend his deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 14 minutes ago, Chimp said: If we still have a fit Rowles, Kent and Halkett in the summer, there won't really be a place for him so if that's the case I'd be looking to loan him out again to top division side til January at least and extend his deal. You can’t go with only 3 centre backs when you set up with 3. If he’s improved enough I’d definitely include him for next season with a contract extension. Only on the basis he has improved enough to be considered acknowledging mistakes will still be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, Dazo said: You can’t go with only 3 centre backs when you set up with 3. If he’s improved enough I’d definitely include him for next season with a contract extension. Only on the basis he has improved enough to be considered acknowledging mistakes will still be made. Absolutely. Being our 4th/even 5th choice CH is the next part in his journey imo (based on a 3 at the back). He'd get plenty game time. He'd be training with our team every day. I'd think if we're happy with where he's at (and reports sound excellent) then he'll be in the 1st team squad next season. Hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo dans les Pyrenees Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 19 minutes ago, Chimp said: If we still have a fit Rowles, Kent and Halkett in the summer, there won't really be a place for him so if that's the case I'd be looking to loan him out again to top division side til January at least and extend his deal. The club want to make money on Rowles. He’ll be 26 in the summer with 4 years left on his deal. Halkett’s deal expires this summer. Let’s hope his fitness and form get back to where he is a key player for the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, TheBigO said: Absolutely. Being our 4th/even 5th choice CH is the next part in his journey imo (based on a 3 at the back). He'd get plenty game time. He'd be training with our team every day. I'd think if we're happy with where he's at (and reports sound excellent) then he'll be in the 1st team squad next season. Hope so. Yep completely agree. This guy can potentially save us a right fee quid and we have a top centre half for the next 5 years. I’ve always liked him but it was obvious he was raw in terms of aggression and positioning. If a year in the championship as taught him some of those things he should absolutely be back with us to complete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Queensland Jambo said: The club want to make money on Rowles. He’ll be 26 in the summer with 4 years left on his deal. Halkett’s deal expires this summer. Let’s hope his fitness and form get back to where he is a key player for the team. I wondered about Rowles, I have to say. I really like him, think he's a right good player, but I'd think this summer may be the time to try to sell. Wonder if his agent may be given a wee nudge to start speaking to some Saudis!!!haha Would leave us Kent, Halks, Kingsley and Neilson. Not bad. But would want another - and I'd want him to be a starter not a squaddie. Basically a Kye replacement. (I've left Toby out of this obviously - really like Toby but kind of resigned that he might not smash it for us. Hey, he might, but he has a lot of work to do) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 11 minutes ago, Dazo said: You can’t go with only 3 centre backs when you set up with 3. If he’s improved enough I’d definitely include him for next season with a contract extension. Only on the basis he has improved enough to be considered acknowledging mistakes will still be made. Kingsley can play there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Dazo said: Yep completely agree. This guy can potentially save us a right fee quid and we have a top centre half for the next 5 years. I’ve always liked him but it was obvious he was raw in terms of aggression and positioning. If a year in the championship as taught him some of those things he should absolutely be back with us to complete. Getting 30odd games that really matter, in front of decent crowds, against teams and players scrapping for their lives is massive for him. Always think loans like this really matter more for defenders and maybe goalies. Not sure if there's truth in that, but feels that way. But then coming back and training and playing with our (with respect) better players and stepping up his learning will also be good. He now has the foundation to build on which he didn't when we first saw him. And he still aquitted himself pretty bloody well considering the situation, even then. Quite excited by Neilson, have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 6 minutes ago, Queensland Jambo said: The club want to make money on Rowles. He’ll be 26 in the summer with 4 years left on his deal. Halkett’s deal expires this summer. Let’s hope his fitness and form get back to where he is a key player for the team. Them wanting to make money on him doesn't really matter if nobody makes an offer. He's been in excellent form again, but I can't see another club making a good offer for him in the summer. He's got a little bit to go before we can think about making any sort of millions on him IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busbyfth Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, TheBigO said: Absolutely. Being our 4th/even 5th choice CH is the next part in his journey imo (based on a 3 at the back). He'd get plenty game time. He'd be training with our team every day. I'd think if we're happy with where he's at (and reports sound excellent) then he'll be in the 1st team squad next season. Hope so. Exactly.......and Halkett who was a yard slow before his injury, has lost another yard. This might come back with game time though (at least we hope so) but if not, then CH would be "replaceable". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, Chimp said: Kingsley can play there too. It’s still not enough Chimp. I’m not saying he is the answer but if he has shown enough he 100% should be in our first team squad next season. I’d imagine he has been carefully monitored and after a few preseason games that will be a straightforward decision in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIEIO Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Didn't look particularly great definsively v Dundee United in the live game last week. May have been because the other Thistle defenders were poor though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, Dazo said: It’s still not enough Chimp. I’m not saying he is the answer but if he has shown enough he 100% should be in our first team squad next season. I’d imagine he has been carefully monitored and after a few preseason games that will be a straightforward decision in the summer. Yeah. I'd just hate to see him be kept with us for next season and barely play as it could hinder his development. We'll soon see what happens come summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Chimp said: Them wanting to make money on him doesn't really matter if nobody makes an offer. He's been in excellent form again, but I can't see another club making a good offer for him in the summer. He's got a little bit to go before we can think about making any sort of millions on him IMO. May depend on how he does in the Asia Cup tbf. If he has a good tournament, on top of a decent WC on his CV, plus having played in Europe, and if we get 3rd again. All adds up. Also, you know how it works, if his individual stats look good... I could genuinely see a middle east type move for him. Maybe he'd more have his eye on England or Europe, which would perhaps be harder to achieve for both parties at an acceptable level. Again, not sure this is true, but feels that way!! (am I saying Saudi league are mugs here....!!??!?) Not trying to sell Kye off here, by the way. Much rather we keep our good players and he's 100% one of those. But squad evolution, player trading, he feels the obvious one to me. Moreso even than a Shanks or Cochrane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Berry Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Rowles is a different type of player than Kent and Halkett, both of whom are there to mostly deal with the high balls into the box, Rowles is more of a scrapper, clears up the loose balls, gets the blocks in and generally does the dirty work. We'll miss him the next few games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigO Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, Chimp said: Yeah. I'd just hate to see him be kept with us for next season and barely play as it could hinder his development. We'll soon see what happens come summer. Remember next season we hope to have Euro Groups. So that's min 8 european games, plus league and 2 cups. Might have 50+ games, lots of 2 a week stuff too. We'll need some rotation and also provision for injury. 5 CHs would all get decent game time (in a 3). Other thing is do we move to a 4, but I think we'd still need 5 viable options in the squad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 minutes ago, TheBigO said: May depend on how he does in the Asia Cup tbf. If he has a good tournament, on top of a decent WC on his CV, plus having played in Europe, and if we get 3rd again. All adds up. Also, you know how it works, if his individual stats look good... I could genuinely see a middle east type move for him. Maybe he'd more have his eye on England or Europe, which would perhaps be harder to achieve for both parties at an acceptable level. Again, not sure this is true, but feels that way!! (am I saying Saudi league are mugs here....!!??!?) Not trying to sell Kye off here, by the way. Much rather we keep our good players and he's 100% one of those. But squad evolution, player trading, he feels the obvious one to me. Moreso even than a Shanks or Cochrane. Can't ever see him making it in England, doesn't have the build or athleticism for down there. He'd get brushed aside. Think he'd thrive in a more technical league abroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazo Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 5 minutes ago, Chimp said: Yeah. I'd just hate to see him be kept with us for next season and barely play as it could hinder his development. We'll soon see what happens come summer. Well hopefully he’s improved enough that won’t happen. Also for the next part of his development training and playing with Kent, Halkett, Rowles and Kingsley is far better than another season down there imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Goodman Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 5 hours ago, Queensland Jambo said: The club want to make money on Rowles. He’ll be 26 in the summer with 4 years left on his deal. Halkett’s deal expires this summer. Let’s hope his fitness and form get back to where he is a key player for the team. I believe Halkett signed a new deal last season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, John Goodman said: I believe Halkett signed a new deal last season? Season before, him McKay and Kingsley all extended at the same time IIRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithian Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 6 hours ago, Chimp said: Yeah. I'd just hate to see him be kept with us for next season and barely play as it could hinder his development. We'll soon see what happens come summer. If Hearts keep him in Edinburgh as the #4 option in a 3 at the back for next season, he'll play a lot even with good health. Regular rotation, subs, discipline, possible some extra European matches. And in reality, we know there will be injuries in the backline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacerjoe Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 7 hours ago, Dazo said: Yep completely agree. This guy can potentially save us a right fee quid and we have a top centre half for the next 5 years. I’ve always liked him but it was obvious he was raw in terms of aggression and positioning. If a year in the championship as taught him some of those things he should absolutely be back with us to complete. Not only raw, he was dropped in to that team when we were down to playing FBs as CBs in a back 4. Imagine him playing alongside Kent and Rowles in a back 3. Different gravy. Even then he was a standout in a couple of games (I think a win against St J?) where he looked Souttaresque. But lost confidence, as they all did, when our defence was such a ****ing mess with injuries and lack of form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacerjoe Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 7 hours ago, TheBigO said: Remember next season we hope to have Euro Groups. So that's min 8 european games, plus league and 2 cups. Might have 50+ games, lots of 2 a week stuff too. We'll need some rotation and also provision for injury. 5 CHs would all get decent game time (in a 3). Other thing is do we move to a 4, but I think we'd still need 5 viable options in the squad Yep, we can't make the same mistake as last time we were in Europe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fila Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 We should be testing his ability next season, he can be as good now or is probably not far behind Rowles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said: Leave him where he is for rest of season, he's playing everyweek gaining valuable experience and hopefully come back in summer , get good pre season and push for 1st team next season Yip, playing a full season into the legs cannot be replicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Do we reckon we let Sibbick go in the summer and bring Neilson back in to the team to compete for a first team slot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Just now, AlimOzturk said: Do we reckon we let Sibbick go in the summer and bring Neilson back in to the team to compete for a first team slot? Yeah. Although I think he may be a better CDM than a center back in the short term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, kingantti1874 said: Yeah. Although I think he may be a better CDM than a center back in the short term. He’s been getting rave reviews from Patrick fans regarding his performances at CB. Would think he might see his future there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 4 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said: He’s been getting rave reviews from Patrick fans regarding his performances at CB. Would think he might see his future there. Not sure if the previous poster was referring to Sibbick? Hopefully we keep on with the 3 at the back as would offer Neilson a clean route into the first team (as just isn't unseating Kent, and could rotate/ compete with Halks) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ1977 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I’d happily cash in on sibbick and bring Neilson back in to the squad for next season. Sibbick is basically a squad filler nowadays so be as well getting some money in from selling him and using Neilson. Got to think Neilson is also on less wages so should help budget wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 16 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said: Do we reckon we let Sibbick go in the summer and bring Neilson back in to the team to compete for a first team slot? 100%. Take a small fee or whatever we can get for him and wish him all the best. Hasn't worked out the way we thought it would. Neilson could be an exciting one. Absolute unit who looks decent enough on the ball too. Still very young though and can't expect too much of him but would be good to start getting more minutes next season and a higher level. Edited February 14 by Chimp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAlim Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 He’s big and strong for his age and good on the ball. The other parts of defending can be coached and learned on the job. We don’t really have an old head to guide him in the way that Webster and Berra had Pressley and Souttar had Berra. Maybe Kent is of an age now to bestow some wisdom but I trust the manager to get every last drop of potential out of him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Rudi Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Agreed, I've a lot of time for Sibbick but he's the type that can't just "fill in when needed". He needs a run of games to gain confidence and he's not going to get that here. I wish he had tried to develop as a RB tbh, he's never a centre half. Far too many times caught ball watching or out of position. Good luck to him though, I think he will make it if he finds the right club/level for him. A run of games with Kent just might have sorted him out. Not to be. Could have done so much more with the attributes he has. Neilson appears to be developing nicely and with Halketts injury/fitness woes, he could find himself getting regular game time. There were spells in the few games he had with us where he looked class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 24 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said: He’s been getting rave reviews from Patrick fans regarding his performances at CB. Would think he might see his future there. that’s good, tbh I only watched hi. In the 4-3 loss at raith and positionally I still though room for improvement. That’s why he’s there though to learn so hopefully comes back. Has all the attributes to be a top CB and is fantastic on the ball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4marsbars Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 Is it possible to have a thread about a player without it descending into a discussion about Toby Sibbick? The only discussion fans should be having about Toby is how do we help him get his confidence back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pettigrewsstylist Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 33 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said: Do we reckon we let Sibbick go in the summer and bring Neilson back in to the team to compete for a first team slot? Pretty sure he will be training with first team squad pre-season if he continues current form till end of season. How he gets on pre-season will determine where he plays next season of course, but looking at SN strategy, he fits the bill for 1st team breakthrough season attempt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upgotheheads Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 I think we will see Neilson back with us because he's at an age when he needs to be stretched to fulfill his potential, he's 21 in May and won't be stretched in the Championship. On the subject of Sibbick, I like him, unless he's caught on the right side of a back three when he can't make up his mind if he's a central defender or a right back, then gets pulled out of position. However, we will need a bigger squad of defenders next season anyway, especially if Halkett continues to be injury-prone. Sibbick is versatile and can make decent forward runs too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 9 minutes ago, 4marsbars said: Is it possible to have a thread about a player without it descending into a discussion about Toby Sibbick? The only discussion fans should be having about Toby is how do we help him get his confidence back? Sadly too often on here that people have to knock another Hearts player to praise one (saw the same with people knocking Denholm to praise Tait.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daveandal Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 If we are playing 3 at the back and are in Europe upto Christmas next year there is an argument we need both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimp Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 20 minutes ago, 4marsbars said: Is it possible to have a thread about a player without it descending into a discussion about Toby Sibbick? The only discussion fans should be having about Toby is how do we help him get his confidence back? Quite an ironic post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 19 minutes ago, 4marsbars said: Is it possible to have a thread about a player without it descending into a discussion about Toby Sibbick? The only discussion fans should be having about Toby is how do we help him get his confidence back? Lewis Neilson if he came back would be in direct competition with Sibbick. With limited numbers in his position it isn’t exactly harsh to suggest with Sibbick being the weakest player there that he may be wanting to leave/club move him on for the sake of his career and first team opportunities. This is a football forum to discuss football matter after all. I wasn’t criticising Sibbick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 12 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said: Sadly too often on here that people have to knock another Hearts player to praise one (saw the same with people knocking Denholm to praise Tait.) Who was I knocking? At what point did I say anything critical of Sibbick other than speculate about his future with the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 13 minutes ago, Daveandal said: If we are playing 3 at the back and are in Europe upto Christmas next year there is an argument we need both. You could argue this yes. Very good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 26 minutes ago, 4marsbars said: Is it possible to have a thread about a player without it descending into a discussion about Toby Sibbick? The only discussion fans should be having about Toby is how do we help him get his confidence back? I have the answer to this, allow him to move on to a new club where he can develop his game at League 2 type level good luck to him at a Swindon, Tranmere, MK Dons type club, learn his trade and make his mistakes away from the pressure of a big club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 6 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said: Who was I knocking? At what point did I say anything critical of Sibbick other than speculate about his future with the club? I was only agreeing with the other posters general point that too often some here will knock a player when praising another rather than just praising a player. My comment was not aimed at you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said: I was only agreeing with the other posters general point that too often some here will knock a player when praising another rather than just praising a player. My comment was not aimed at you. Ok apologies if I jumped the gun there. I actually think Sibbick has a lot of talent however the competition at this club in Kent/Rowels/Kingsley/Halkett and now potentially Neilson for his position and I see it hard him breaking through that regularly. However as another poster pointed out with Europe we might need a little more depth to help cover. So we might potentially need both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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