Archie Battersbee life support to be switched off

[Jambo-Jimbo]

For some reason, which the BBC will be able to answer better than me, in that article on their website, which I posted a link to above, about Archie's parents calling for an inquiry etc etc, the BBC omitted to mention that the statement by the parents was issued through the Christian Law Centre/Christian Concern. 

This is just one of several articles which does mention the Christian Law Centre.  

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/family-archie-battersbee-pushing-law-24693485

 

In a nutshell, I believe that Christian Concern want a change in the law so that doctors & the courts lose the right to decide to turn off life support, and hand that power over to the parents, oh and of course god.  In cases such as Archie's they'd be happy for him to be kept on life support for.........well forever more, as it should be god who decides whether someone lives or dies. 

That's the kind of people who are pulling the family's strings. 

IMO Archie is now nothing but a pawn, being used in a larger ongoing religious battle which has been going on for some time.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

35 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

For some reason, which the BBC will be able to answer better than me, in that article on their website, which I posted a link to above, about Archie's parents calling for an inquiry etc etc, the BBC omitted to mention that the statement by the parents was issued through the Christian Law Centre/Christian Concern. 

This is just one of several articles which does mention the Christian Law Centre.  

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/family-archie-battersbee-pushing-law-24693485

 

In a nutshell, I believe that Christian Concern want a change in the law so that doctors & the courts lose the right to decide to turn off life support, and hand that power over to the parents, oh and of course god.  In cases such as Archie's they'd be happy for him to be kept on life support for.........well forever more, as it should be god who decides whether someone lives or dies. 

That's the kind of people who are pulling the family's strings. 

IMO Archie is now nothing but a pawn, being used in a larger ongoing religious battle which has been going on for some time.

 

 

Hope the courts tell them to deck off 

[Bauld]

If they want God to decide whether or not a person lives or dies then they shouldn't be on life support at all.

 

****ing morons.

 

What happened to the poor kid is an absolute tragedy and I have full sympathy for everyone involved in it. As a father I hope I never have to experience anything that horrific. 

 

But religion has no place in this situation. If someone out there truly believes that God shall decide. Then on that basis he would have been left lying on the floor where they found him and waited on some divine intervention. 

 

 

[Ray Gin]

2 hours ago, Bauld said:

If they want God to decide whether or not a person lives or dies then they shouldn't be on life support at all.

 

****ing morons.

 

What happened to the poor kid is an absolute tragedy and I have full sympathy for everyone involved in it. As a father I hope I never have to experience anything that horrific. 

 

But religion has no place in this situation. If someone out there truly believes that God shall decide. Then on that basis he would have been left lying on the floor where they found him and waited on some divine intervention. 

 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

4 hours ago, Bauld said:

If they want God to decide whether or not a person lives or dies then they shouldn't be on life support at all.

 

 

 

If someone out there truly believes that God shall decide. Then on that basis he would have been left lying on the floor where they found him and waited on some divine intervention. 

 

 

 

too simplistic mate - God (if they exist) doesn’t do all the work them self - they empower people to do some of the work / the right thing

 

thats what some people believe anyway and would answer your query 

[JFK-1]

10 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

For some reason, which the BBC will be able to answer better than me, in that article on their website, which I posted a link to above, about Archie's parents calling for an inquiry etc etc, the BBC omitted to mention that the statement by the parents was issued through the Christian Law Centre/Christian Concern. 

This is just one of several articles which does mention the Christian Law Centre.  

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/family-archie-battersbee-pushing-law-24693485

 

In a nutshell, I believe that Christian Concern want a change in the law so that doctors & the courts lose the right to decide to turn off life support, and hand that power over to the parents, oh and of course god.  In cases such as Archie's they'd be happy for him to be kept on life support for.........well forever more, as it should be god who decides whether someone lives or dies. 

That's the kind of people who are pulling the family's strings. 

IMO Archie is now nothing but a pawn, being used in a larger ongoing religious battle which has been going on for some time.

 

 

 

What exactly do they want an inquiry to do? To my knowledge it looks as if procedures have been followed. Also to my knowledge he's brain dead, zero brain stem activity.

 

The boy is already dead. They have effectively been keeping a brain dead corpse fresh. 

 

 

[Bauld]

5 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

too simplistic mate - God (if they exist) doesn’t do all the work them self - they empower people to do some of the work / the right thing

 

thats what some people believe anyway and would answer your query 

 

If God does exist he's an evil maniac who should be despised not revered.

 

But that's a topic for another thread.

 

But when it comes to how people use God. They will twist it to suit any agenda. If someone is lying in a hospital bed being kept alive by machines and the evidence is there that the brain has ceased operation and they will never recover. Then the right thing is to allow them to be at peace. As painful and as tragic as it is. When you keep someone alive like that you're not doing it for them you're doing it for yourself. 

[Tazio]

Another really sad aspect to this is that there is every chance the family have been living in a top hotel the last week or so at the expense of a tabloid. 

[Mikey1874]

On 06/08/2022 at 17:07, Cade said:

Let's hope that this tragic case remains in private now.

I do not want the media circus to continue.

Give the family some space.

 

23 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

We should fill hospitals with mothers and sack all the doctors. Mother's instinct outweighs medical qualifications.

 

The boy was going to die.

 

It certain parts of the pro life anti abortion  world this family are part of life ending isn't conceived of. Which is strange given people do actually die. You could say its denial of nature. Which is strange when you look into this philosophy and world view. 

 

People are allowed to die all the time. Health service tries to save people but decisions like this are made every hour. 

[AndyNic]

19 hours ago, Bindy Badgy said:

 

 

Tiktok have released a statement stating that the alleged challenge wasn't on their platform. I assume we shall find out what happened in the coming weeks.

 

https://propermanchester.com/trending/calls-to-ban-kids-from-dangerous-tiktok-after-archie-battersbee-tragedy/

 

 

 

Apparently it's called the 'blackout' challenge. 

 

Folk need to be speaking to their kids and if they see any of these challenges on social media theyneed to make sure they know they're ****ing ridiculous and dangerous and not to be an idiot and try to copy them to look "cool" to their pals.

 

Mental in this day and age. Scary stuff. 

[Mysterion]

On 06/08/2022 at 21:58, Sooperstar said:

A tragic story and I don't agree with the actions of the parents at all. Easy to see logic from the outside though and I'm not going to criticise the acts of desperate people who wanted to cling onto the last bit of hope that their kid would somehow survive.

 

It is very sad, if we say that the 5 stages of grief are generally applicable then they never got past stage 1. 

 

Now he has passed on they are now somewhere around stage 2 where they are angry and want answers. They called medical staff murderers and were encouraged through the media attention to fight on. I find that heart breaking. 

 

During the time that the poor lad was in hospital the family refused to listen to anyone except those who promised false hope without any evidence. I do suspect the mother had some sort of mental breakdown but was able to hide it. If you are posing with your kid, an MP and a pic of the queen whilst your child is in a coma there's something seriously wrong. 

 

From a different point of view - Archie could have lived on through organ donation. I expect that the prolonged hospital stay has made that impossible. 

 

I hope they family can get help so they can remember their son in a more positive fashion.

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Mysterion

[highlandjambo3]

4 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

It is very sad, if we say that the 5 stages of grief are generally applicable then they never got past stage 1. 

 

Now he has passed on they are now somewhere around stage 2 where they are angry and want answers. They called medical staff murderers and were encouraged through the media attention to fight on. I find that heart breaking. 

 

During the time that the poor lad was in hospital the family refused to listen to anyone except those who promised false hope without any evidence. I do suspect the mother had some sort of mental breakdown but was able to hide it. If you are posing with your kid, an MP and a pic of the queen whilst your child is in a coma there's something seriously wrong. 

 

From a different point of view - Archie could have lived on through organ donation. I expect that the prolonged hospital stay has made that impossible. 

 

I hope they family can get help so they can remember their son in a more positive fashion.

 

 

 

That picture is just so wrong……. Very disturbing.  
 

My daughter was hooked up much the same way……if anyone came anywhere near with a camera I’d have gotten myself into serious trouble with the police.

[The Real Maroonblood]

15 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

It is very sad, if we say that the 5 stages of grief are generally applicable then they never got past stage 1. 

 

Now he has passed on they are now somewhere around stage 2 where they are angry and want answers. They called medical staff murderers and were encouraged through the media attention to fight on. I find that heart breaking. 

 

During the time that the poor lad was in hospital the family refused to listen to anyone except those who promised false hope without any evidence. I do suspect the mother had some sort of mental breakdown but was able to hide it. If you are posing with your kid, an MP and a pic of the queen whilst your child is in a coma there's something seriously wrong. 

 

From a different point of view - Archie could have lived on through organ donation. I expect that the prolonged hospital stay has made that impossible. 

 

I hope they family can get help so they can remember their son in a more positive fashion.

 

 

 

Ffs.

That's brutal. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

On 07/08/2022 at 08:45, kila said:

Agreed, this very sad story is going to become the mother’s income and comparing to Captain Tom is spot on. 

 

On 07/08/2022 at 09:07, Jambo-Jimbo said:

I can only speak for myself, that if I found myself in a similar situation, I'd want to know whether my child was alive or dead. 

 

Which is why I am puzzled why Archie's parents had refused to allow such testing as a brain stem cell test to determine whether Archie was alive or dead, I know I would have allowed it, simply because I'd want to know, one way or another, but for whatever reason Archie's parents refused and thereby didn't get confirmation whether he was still alive or indeed dead.  Perhaps, maybe they didn't want to know, didn't want to know the truth, that their child was in fact dead. 

 

This is how this case ended up in court, it wasn't about the removal of Archie's life support, that came about later, it was intially about the hospital seeking permission from the high court to carry out vital testing, such as brain stem cell testing, which the family had refused permission for the hospital to carry out.

When Archie's mother stood on the steps of the high court telling the media, that it was the first time in history that someone had been declared dead via an MRI scan, and that no other tests had been carried out, whilst failing to mention that it was the family who'd refused permission for those other tests, that's when alarm bells started to ring in my head, because as usual we only ever hear one side of the story, usually the family's or those representing them's version of events.

 

As others have said, I don't think we've heard the last of this case, as I do think there is more to come out about the circumstances of how Archie ended up in hospital in the first place.

Well theres information online that he didnt die from any tik tok challenge. Apparently he had attempted suicide the day before and also did it that day hence being in hospital.  This would make a lot of sense regarding the parents   projection of anger and the stigma around suicide , In particular around older children.  

 

The family are losing any support now due to their attacks and anger directed at the NHS staff , It really angers me. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

 

Well theres information online that he didnt die from any tik tok challenge. Apparently he had attempted suicide the day before and also did it that day hence being in hospital.  This would make a lot of sense regarding the parents   projection of anger and the stigma around suicide , In particular around older children.  

 

The family are losing any support now due to their attacks and anger directed at the NHS staff , It really angers me. 

 

There appears to be quite a lot of information concerning Archie & the family online, I do not know how much if any of it is accurate, but I do know one thing, if even a fraction of it were true, the last thing I'd be wanting is media attention.  Especially when photo's of posing with an MP are released, a photo which is just wrong, on so many levels.

[I P Knightley]

49 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

There appears to be quite a lot of information concerning Archie & the family online, I do not know how much if any of it is accurate, but I do know one thing, if even a fraction of it were true, the last thing I'd be wanting is media attention.  Especially when photo's of posing with an MP are released, a photo which is just wrong, on so many levels.

Even if a small fraction of those stories is accurate, it points towards the mother being of limited intellect and easily swayed or influenced by 'likes' on social media. If she were brighter and the subject matter weren't so tragic, she'd be tagged as a 'troll', craving attention no matter how 'wrong' the content is. It's more complex than that, though and it appears to me that she doesn't have anyone supporting her who actually understands or cares for her.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

12 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

Even if a small fraction of those stories is accurate, it points towards the mother being of limited intellect and easily swayed or influenced by 'likes' on social media. If she were brighter and the subject matter weren't so tragic, she'd be tagged as a 'troll', craving attention no matter how 'wrong' the content is. It's more complex than that, though and it appears to me that she doesn't have anyone supporting her who actually understands or cares for her.

 

You could well be right.

[Ray Gin]

2 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dumbfounded

Edited August 8, 2022 by Ray Gin

[Mikey1874]

2 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

Even if a small fraction of those stories is accurate, it points towards the mother being of limited intellect and easily swayed or influenced by 'likes' on social media. If she were brighter and the subject matter weren't so tragic, she'd be tagged as a 'troll', craving attention no matter how 'wrong' the content is. It's more complex than that, though and it appears to me that she doesn't have anyone supporting her who actually understands or cares for her.

 

It's the denial of reality that is more concerning.

 

While these are individuals and they are entitled to have fought to save their son, they made themselves part of a bigger, wider statement that says 'we don't care, we're right and you are wrong'. And medical judgement is one of things certain people want to challenge.

 

Maybe have a future in the US. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Mikey1874

[I P Knightley]

4 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

It is very sad, if we say that the 5 stages of grief are generally applicable then they never got past stage 1. 

 

Now he has passed on they are now somewhere around stage 2 where they are angry and want answers. They called medical staff murderers and were encouraged through the media attention to fight on. I find that heart breaking. 

 

During the time that the poor lad was in hospital the family refused to listen to anyone except those who promised false hope without any evidence. I do suspect the mother had some sort of mental breakdown but was able to hide it. If you are posing with your kid, an MP and a pic of the queen whilst your child is in a coma there's something seriously wrong. 

 

From a different point of view - Archie could have lived on through organ donation. I expect that the prolonged hospital stay has made that impossible. 

 

I hope they family can get help so they can remember their son in a more positive fashion.

 

 

 

I had to look up who she is. Anna Firth is the MP elected to the Southend constituency previously held by David Amess, who was murdered last year. He may have been a Tory but Amess was one of the decent guys.

His replacement does not appear to be able to show judgement. She is said to have boasted about how she has the largest majority of any MP. For perspective, no major party put up a candidate, allowing Firth a free run at the by-election. Even then, she only got something like 85% of the votes (including the count of spoiled ballot papers)

Then this... a really horrible error of judgement.

Still, it's Southend and she'll get re-elected. 'Kin awful place.

[CavySlaveJambo]

3 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

 

Well theres information online that he didnt die from any tik tok challenge. Apparently he had attempted suicide the day before and also did it that day hence being in hospital.  

The court documents (public record here https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2022/1165.html) confirm something along these lines. He was found hanging from the stairway bannister by a dressing gown cord)   Not the day before but the day that landed him in Hospital.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 hours ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

The court documents (public record here https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2022/1165.html) confirm something along these lines. He was found hanging from the stairway bannister by a dressing gown cord)   Not the day before but the day that landed him in Hospital.  

Yes I read about that 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

 

2 hours ago, CavySlaveJambo said:

The court documents (public record here https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2022/1165.html) confirm something along these lines. He was found hanging from the stairway bannister by a dressing gown cord)   Not the day before but the day that landed him in Hospital.  

 

Mr Bruno Quintavalle, the barrister who represented the family, seems this isn't his first case of this kind, because in 2018 he represented the family of Alfie Evans, also the Christian Legal Centre wanted attempted murder charges brought against NHS staff at Alder Hey Hospital, but of course they didn't do that themselves, no they got the parents to try and get charges brought...........all sounds kinda familar to what is going on with Archie's case, in that wanting public inquries and changes of the law, NHS practices etc etc, and of course Archie's family have used the word murder in relation towards NHS staff.

 

 

 

[Don Dan]

I’ve have avoided commenting on the involvement of the Christian Legal Centre but they need to have a hard look at themselves and what they are about. 

[Ray Gin]

2 hours ago, Imaman said:

I’ve have avoided commenting on the involvement of the Christian Legal Centre but they need to have a hard look at themselves and what they are about. 

 

They are parasites, preying on the emotionally vulnerable. 

[Don Dan]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

They are parasites, preying on the emotionally vulnerable. 

I’ve no idea how they operate. Do people contact them or do they contact people?
 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

9 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

They are parasites, preying on the emotionally vulnerable. 

 

I totally agree. 

 

IMO if you read the court documents above carefully there are clues.

Number 21 - At the first application on the 28th April the family have no legal representation, but by the second hearing on the 4th May they do.

It is my belief that the family were contacted after the first hearing and offered legal representation, possibly for free, and of course they'll take it, who wouldn't.  And that's the hook.

Number 31 - States that Archie, his mother & other family members had been christened (in hospital). I wonder whose suggestion that was.

Now the family may have been religious, however isn't baptism a major part of Christianity, therefore why wait all those years to get it done.

 

Then we start to hear the word god being spoken by Archie's mother in interviews and how it's all god's will and only god can decide if he lives or dies, then it was Archie's religious beliefs that his life support should be kept on etc etc etc.  Then after Archie had officially died, we get a statement calling for a public inquiry and a change in the law blah blah blah, pretty much similar calls that Christian Concern had made years previously with another high profile case, but of course they don't actually make the call, no they get the family to do it.

 

They're parasites, using & manipulating vulnerable people to further their own religious agenda.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Now saying they want a public inquiry ffs, to “make sure this never happens again”.

 

The only way this doesn’t happen again is if families are given the right to overrule medical professionals on a whim.

[Mysterion]

10 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

They are parasites, preying on the emotionally vulnerable. 

 

Wonder if they could be banned under legal arguments that shut down ultra right wing/islamic activist groups in the UK. Their actions are significantly disruptive. 

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

23 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I totally agree. 

 

IMO if you read the court documents above carefully there are clues.

Number 21 - At the first application on the 28th April the family have no legal representation, but by the second hearing on the 4th May they do.

It is my belief that the family were contacted after the first hearing and offered legal representation, possibly for free, and of course they'll take it, who wouldn't.  And that's the hook.

Number 31 - States that Archie, his mother & other family members had been christened (in hospital). I wonder whose suggestion that was.

Now the family may have been religious, however isn't baptism a major part of Christianity, therefore why wait all those years to get it done.

 

Then we start to hear the word god being spoken by Archie's mother in interviews and how it's all god's will and only god can decide if he lives or dies, then it was Archie's religious beliefs that his life support should be kept on etc etc etc.  Then after Archie had officially died, we get a statement calling for a public inquiry and a change in the law blah blah blah, pretty much similar calls that Christian Concern had made years previously with another high profile case, but of course they don't actually make the call, no they get the family to do it.

 

They're parasites, using & manipulating vulnerable people to further their own religious agenda.

Yes they are scum . 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Mysterion said:

 

Wonder if they could be banned under legal arguments that shut down ultra right wing/islamic activist groups in the UK. Their actions are significantly disruptive. 

 

 

 

Well they don't have very nice things to say about the religion of Islam, it's there on their website.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Now saying they want a public inquiry ffs, to “make sure this never happens again”.

 

The only way this doesn’t happen again is if families are given the right to overrule medical professionals on a whim.

 

And that's exactly what these bible bashers want, and of course they'll be right there advising the family.