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Archie Battersbee life support to be switched off


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6 minutes ago, Cade said:

None of this sad and tragic saga has been doing anybody any good.

Not Archie, not his family, not the medical staff.

Everybody involved has been badly affected by what's been going on.

The longer it's been dragged on, the more lasting harm it's done to everyone involved.

 

I hope his family get proper support after he's gone. 

And I hope someone keeps the vultures off their backs.

 

I fear that those groups with vested interests or other agendas will be convincing them to keep fighting in the courts after he's passed, launching all sorts of frivolous suits against the medical staff, the hospital and anybody else they can think of.

 

 

Yeah the hearse chasing vermin will be lurking.  One thing pretty clear is that this family have not had the benefit of having someone advising them with the best intentions at the front of the agenda.  They've been strung along quite badly.

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36 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Yeah the hearse chasing vermin will be lurking.  One thing pretty clear is that this family have not had the benefit of having someone advising them with the best intentions at the front of the agenda.  They've been strung along quite badly.

 

Christian Concern have said that the family have applied to the ECHR claiming that Archie's human rights have been infringed, namely article's 6 and 8.   These religious nutters are using this family for their own warped agenda and are going to string this out as much as they can.

Christian Concern said later that Archie's family had applied to the ECHR, arguing there was a violation of articles six and eight of the European Convention on Human Rights.

Article six is the right to a fair trial and article eight is the right to respect for private and family life.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62424659

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Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Christian Concern have said that the family have applied to the ECHR claiming that Archie's human rights have been infringed, namely article's 6 and 8.   These religious nutters are using this family for their own warped agenda and are going to string this out as much as they can.

Christian Concern said later that Archie's family had applied to the ECHR, arguing there was a violation of articles six and eight of the European Convention on Human Rights.

Article six is the right to a fair trial and article eight is the right to respect for private and family life.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62424659

They must have plenty money though. 

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3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Christian Concern have said that the family have applied to the ECHR claiming that Archie's human rights have been infringed, namely article's 6 and 8.   These religious nutters are using this family for their own warped agenda and are going to string this out as much as they can.

Christian Concern said later that Archie's family had applied to the ECHR, arguing there was a violation of articles six and eight of the European Convention on Human Rights.

Article six is the right to a fair trial and article eight is the right to respect for private and family life.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62424659

 

They needed a trusted cool head in their support circle to shield them from this crusade.  

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Having been in an unfortunate similar situation all I can really say is

 

It's truly a very sad story but Doctors would never offer you anything but honesty. If they're saying he's brain dead then thats what the wee lad is.

 

My daughter was just a day old but the Doctors broke it to us that she was going to die and it was only a matter of time.

When the ventilator was switched off for my wee yin it was our decision and on our terms and we got to spend her last moments with her. I dont think I could have coped if she had passed while I was asleep, or at the toilet, or getting something to eat if we had said to keep her on it indefinitely. 

 

It feels like his parents have dragged out the inevitable so long that letting go has been made much harder. And sadly now it's a decision that's been made without them.

 

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3 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

They're his parents. Can you imagine their position. Any hope is better than no hope. It is a horrible story. 

 

There is no hope, he's brain dead. Its not like he's going to pull through. If there were some miracle the boy will live his life as a vegetable. I wouldn't want that for my kids. 

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Weakened Offender
10 hours ago, Herbert. said:

 

There is no hope, he's brain dead. Its not like he's going to pull through. If there were some miracle the boy will live his life as a vegetable. I wouldn't want that for my kids. 

 

You should speak to them. I imagine that would do it, they'd see things more clearly. 

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Spitonastranger
11 hours ago, Der Kaiser said:

Having been in an unfortunate similar situation all I can really say is

 

It's truly a very sad story but Doctors would never offer you anything but honesty. If they're saying he's brain dead then thats what the wee lad is.

 

My daughter was just a day old but the Doctors broke it to us that she was going to die and it was only a matter of time.

When the ventilator was switched off for my wee yin it was our decision and on our terms and we got to spend her last moments with her. I dont think I could have coped if she had passed while I was asleep, or at the toilet, or getting something to eat if we had said to keep her on it indefinitely. 

 

It feels like his parents have dragged out the inevitable so long that letting go has been made much harder. And sadly now it's a decision that's been made without them.

 

Sorry for your loss

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1 hour ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

You should speak to them. I imagine that would do it, they'd see things more clearly. 

 

Why don't they keep him on a machine unconscious for the next 50years just to make it easy for them? The boys dead time for them to come to terms with it.

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Weakened Offender
52 minutes ago, Herbert. said:

 

Why don't they keep him on a machine unconscious for the next 50years just to make it easy for them? The boys dead time for them to come to terms with it.

 

Classy. 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Christian Concern have said that the family have applied to the ECHR claiming that Archie's human rights have been infringed, namely article's 6 and 8.   These religious nutters are using this family for their own warped agenda and are going to string this out as much as they can.

Christian Concern said later that Archie's family had applied to the ECHR, arguing there was a violation of articles six and eight of the European Convention on Human Rights.

Article six is the right to a fair trial and article eight is the right to respect for private and family life.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62424659

Thats religion for you.  Any religion actually. 

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14 hours ago, Der Kaiser said:

Having been in an unfortunate similar situation all I can really say is

 

It's truly a very sad story but Doctors would never offer you anything but honesty. If they're saying he's brain dead then thats what the wee lad is.

 

My daughter was just a day old but the Doctors broke it to us that she was going to die and it was only a matter of time.

When the ventilator was switched off for my wee yin it was our decision and on our terms and we got to spend her last moments with her. I dont think I could have coped if she had passed while I was asleep, or at the toilet, or getting something to eat if we had said to keep her on it indefinitely. 

 

It feels like his parents have dragged out the inevitable so long that letting go has been made much harder. And sadly now it's a decision that's been made without them.

 

Very sorry to read this. 

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18 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Thats religion for you.  Any religion actually. 

 

The sad fact here is that in cases such as this, the ones where there are multiple court cases/challenges, you'll usually find some religious group involved somewhere in it all, either by funding or advising the family.

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2 hours ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Very sorry to read this. 

 

4 hours ago, Spitonastranger said:

Sorry for your loss

 

Cheers.

 

 

Sad the wee lad has passed but the right decision IMHO. Hope the family can grieve in peace now.

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17 hours ago, Der Kaiser said:

Having been in an unfortunate similar situation all I can really say is

 

It's truly a very sad story but Doctors would never offer you anything but honesty. If they're saying he's brain dead then thats what the wee lad is.

 

My daughter was just a day old but the Doctors broke it to us that she was going to die and it was only a matter of time.

When the ventilator was switched off for my wee yin it was our decision and on our terms and we got to spend her last moments with her. I dont think I could have coped if she had passed while I was asleep, or at the toilet, or getting something to eat if we had said to keep her on it indefinitely. 

 

It feels like his parents have dragged out the inevitable so long that letting go has been made much harder. And sadly now it's a decision that's been made without them.

 


Sorry to hear that DK. I know all too well the pain of losing a child at birth.

 

RIP Archie 😔 

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33 minutes ago, Cade said:

Let's hope that this tragic case remains in private now.

I do not want the media circus to continue.

Give the family some space.

 

Going forwards is this something which needs looked at, perhaps making these kind of cases private.

As soon as they go to court it's a media circus, then the religious lot get involved and then the polarisation of the public begins.

This case has had around about a dozen court hearings & appeals, I wonder if there would have been as many if there had been no publicity, and surely having all these court cases and the subsequent media circus which follows them, are in nobody's best interests.

 

Anyway that's all for future discussion, the most important thing right now is that the laddie is finally at peace.

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CavySlaveJambo
7 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Going forwards is this something which needs looked at, perhaps making these kind of cases private.

As soon as they go to court it's a media circus, then the religious lot get involved and then the polarisation of the public begins.

This case has had around about a dozen court hearings & appeals, I wonder if there would have been as many if there had been no publicity, and surely having all these court cases and the subsequent media circus which follows them, are in nobody's best interests.

 

Anyway that's all for future discussion, the most important thing right now is that the laddie is finally at peace.

Most are kept private.  If the court decisions are publicised they are anonymised. 

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CavySlaveJambo
7 hours ago, Herbert. said:

 

Why don't they keep him on a machine unconscious for the next 50years just to make it easy for them? The boys dead time for them to come to terms with it.

His other organs would have deteriorated and he would died but it would have been slowly and drawn out. 

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highlandjambo3

RIP Archie.

 

I’m not sure where this is going* but, I don’t think we’ve seen the end of this tragic story.
 

One thing that stands out today (for me anyway) that questions the advice she’s been given, if any, behind the scenes by someone (i’m not ITK by the way) but, why would you take the last pictures of your dying child and have them posted on national news a few hours after? this would have been a very special moment for the family to cherish the memory of Archie in his last living moments.

 

*. Will we have a media blackout for the funeral, I don’t think so……….will we have a rag front page special on the whole episode, likely possible.

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Francis Albert
2 hours ago, Cade said:

Let's hope that this tragic case remains in private now.

I do not want the media circus to continue.

Give the family some space.

Wasn't the "media  circus" largely driven by the parents?

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highlandjambo3
2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Wasn't the "media  circus" largely driven by the parents?

That’s the point I made in the post above……the mum has not been shy in fronting up to the cameras, I mean your child has just died in hospital any you've given his last living pictures to the media and jumped in front of the TV cameras within hours………….I believe there’s more to come from this imo.

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A tragic story and I don't agree with the actions of the parents at all. Easy to see logic from the outside though and I'm not going to criticise the acts of desperate people who wanted to cling onto the last bit of hope that their kid would somehow survive.

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5 hours ago, Cade said:

Let's hope that this tragic case remains in private now.

I do not want the media circus to continue.

Give the family some space.

They don’t seem to want the ‘space’ though, Cade.

 

This story is reminiscent, although very different, of the parents in the Madeleine story.

 

We’ve not heard the last of this by a long chalk.

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Jambof3tornado

Having dealt with end of life cases,some involving infants and childrens hospices etc I'm actually disgusted the family dragged things out for as long as possible. In no way was their primary concern for their child.

 

Absolute tragic case.

 

RIP

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MoncurMacdonaldMercer
4 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Might need to retract my earlier comments.


Yes mate because I’m sure shanko has independently fact-checked all that - and in no way passed on that pile of poison just on the off-chance that it might be true (even if it actually is)

 

for what it’s worth I particularly liked your original post where you disagreed with the actions of the parents but recognised that desperate people can do desperate things - probably in part fuelled by the (false) hope that their son could make a miracle recovery like the young boy(now back playing football) who was just about to get operated on to donate his organs as he was given no-hope zero 0% chance of recovery by the team of experts looking after him

 

 

 

 

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highlandjambo3

Sorry I didn’t want to say this (I’ve had a glass of wine*) but, I would suggest there is an element of kerching 💰💰💰 involved in this sad episode, hope I’m wrong though but, the mum looks like she’d be happy with a full blown front page red rag about her injustice’s.

 

 

*

 

E939515F-8259-4CAB-88EC-FC1129F6F0AF.jpeg

Edited by highlandjambo3
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8 hours ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Sorry I didn’t want to say this (I’ve had a glass of wine*) but, I would suggest there is an element of kerching 💰💰💰 involved in this sad episode, hope I’m wrong though but, the mum looks like she’d be happy with a full blown front page red rag about her injustice’s.

 

 

*

 

E939515F-8259-4CAB-88EC-FC1129F6F0AF.jpeg

It has slight ‘Captain Tom’ feels about it.

 

Desperately sad, but for the life of me I cannot understand the thought process of putting pictures of your dead child out to the press. The picture of the cuddly toy balanced on the poor boys head is crass. The mum will be on Loose Women in no time.

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Horatio Caine

I haven't read through the whole of this thread so don't know if it's been covered, but - and here I hope I don't come across as tasteless or crass.  Two things - first, what was the wee lad watching online at the time of whatever happened to him?  What was the `challenge`.  It's been alluded to in the media but no details.  Is it dangerous to other young people?  is it being investigated?

Secondly, why was the young lad home alone? Probably not appropriate to pursue that in the circumstances, but a lesson for other parents surely.

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55 minutes ago, tokyowalnut said:

It has slight ‘Captain Tom’ feels about it.

 

Desperately sad, but for the life of me I cannot understand the thought process of putting pictures of your dead child out to the press. The picture of the cuddly toy balanced on the poor boys head is crass. The mum will be on Loose Women in no time.


Agreed, this very sad story is going to become the mother’s income and comparing to Captain Tom is spot on. 

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Francis Albert
10 minutes ago, Horatio Caine said:

I haven't read through the whole of this thread so don't know if it's been covered, but - and here I hope I don't come across as tasteless or crass.  Two things - first, what was the wee lad watching online at the time of whatever happened to him?  What was the `challenge`.  It's been alluded to in the media but no details.  Is it dangerous to other young people?  is it being investigated?

Secondly, why was the young lad home alone? Probably not appropriate to pursue that in the circumstances, but a lesson for other parents surely.

Several children have died in various countries while "playing" an online game of dare where they are challenged by others  to asphyxiate themselves to the point of unconciousness.

This may not be what happened to Archie and there may be other internet games that cause brain death.

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I can only speak for myself, that if I found myself in a similar situation, I'd want to know whether my child was alive or dead. 

 

Which is why I am puzzled why Archie's parents had refused to allow such testing as a brain stem cell test to determine whether Archie was alive or dead, I know I would have allowed it, simply because I'd want to know, one way or another, but for whatever reason Archie's parents refused and thereby didn't get confirmation whether he was still alive or indeed dead.  Perhaps, maybe they didn't want to know, didn't want to know the truth, that their child was in fact dead. 

 

This is how this case ended up in court, it wasn't about the removal of Archie's life support, that came about later, it was intially about the hospital seeking permission from the high court to carry out vital testing, such as brain stem cell testing, which the family had refused permission for the hospital to carry out.

When Archie's mother stood on the steps of the high court telling the media, that it was the first time in history that someone had been declared dead via an MRI scan, and that no other tests had been carried out, whilst failing to mention that it was the family who'd refused permission for those other tests, that's when alarm bells started to ring in my head, because as usual we only ever hear one side of the story, usually the family's or those representing them's version of events.

 

As others have said, I don't think we've heard the last of this case, as I do think there is more to come out about the circumstances of how Archie ended up in hospital in the first place.

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I P Knightley
2 hours ago, Horatio Caine said:

I haven't read through the whole of this thread so don't know if it's been covered, but - and here I hope I don't come across as tasteless or crass.  Two things - first, what was the wee lad watching online at the time of whatever happened to him?  What was the `challenge`.  It's been alluded to in the media but no details.  Is it dangerous to other young people?  is it being investigated?

Secondly, why was the young lad home alone? Probably not appropriate to pursue that in the circumstances, but a lesson for other parents surely.

Most of what I've read or heard would suggest that the tiktok thing is not a factor. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

I can only speak for myself, that if I found myself in a similar situation, I'd want to know whether my child was alive or dead. 

 

Which is why I am puzzled why Archie's parents had refused to allow such testing as a brain stem cell test to determine whether Archie was alive or dead, I know I would have allowed it, simply because I'd want to know, one way or another, but for whatever reason Archie's parents refused and thereby didn't get confirmation whether he was still alive or indeed dead.  Perhaps, maybe they didn't want to know, didn't want to know the truth, that their child was in fact dead. 

 

This is how this case ended up in court, it wasn't about the removal of Archie's life support, that came about later, it was intially about the hospital seeking permission from the high court to carry out vital testing, such as brain stem cell testing, which the family had refused permission for the hospital to carry out.

When Archie's mother stood on the steps of the high court telling the media, that it was the first time in history that someone had been declared dead via an MRI scan, and that no other tests had been carried out, whilst failing to mention that it was the family who'd refused permission for those other tests, that's when alarm bells started to ring in my head, because as usual we only ever hear one side of the story, usually the family's or those representing them's version of events.

 

As others have said, I don't think we've heard the last of this case, as I do think there is more to come out about the circumstances of how Archie ended up in hospital in the first place.

My understanding is that the medics went to do an MRI but that in a pre-test they found that his brain was not sufficiently responsive for that to be worthwhile.

 

The mother has been desperately clutching at straws and listening to whatever advice or false hope sounds the most positive. She's not the best educated and this makes her easy prey for some shysters. Unfortunately, I fear that the "more to come" will not paint her in the best light. 

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6 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Parents now want a public inquiry into the role of the NHS & the High Court Family Division in end of life cases, and have claimed that they were "stripped of all our rights".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-62455467

 

 


Ffs can they not just get on with mourning their son. Maybe they feel responsible in some way and are lashing out. 

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6 hours ago, Horatio Caine said:

I haven't read through the whole of this thread so don't know if it's been covered, but - and here I hope I don't come across as tasteless or crass.  Two things - first, what was the wee lad watching online at the time of whatever happened to him?  What was the `challenge`.  It's been alluded to in the media but no details.  Is it dangerous to other young people?  is it being investigated?

Secondly, why was the young lad home alone? Probably not appropriate to pursue that in the circumstances, but a lesson for other parents surely.

 

4 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

Most of what I've read or heard would suggest that the tiktok thing is not a factor. 

 

 

Tiktok have released a statement stating that the alleged challenge wasn't on their platform. I assume we shall find out what happened in the coming weeks.

 

https://propermanchester.com/trending/calls-to-ban-kids-from-dangerous-tiktok-after-archie-battersbee-tragedy/

 

Quote

 

However, TikTok has denied ever having this trend on its platform, saying it ‘removes any contact that promotes dangerous behaviour that could cause harm’.

 

A spokesperson said: “Nothing is more important to us than the safety and wellbeing of our community, especially our younger community members. Our community guidelines make clear that we do not tolerate content that promotes dangerous acts that may lead to harm. 

 

“We have taken a series of proactive steps to protect our users and to educate them on the potential dangers of online challenges, including an in-app guide, developed with leading youth safety experts.”

 

 

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I P Knightley
27 minutes ago, Dazo said:


Ffs can they not just get on with mourning their son. Maybe they feel responsible in some way and are lashing out. 

There certainly appears to be an element of this plus a morbid enjoyment of the attention.

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3 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

There certainly appears to be an element of this plus a morbid enjoyment of the attention.


Yep, it just seems so unhealthy. 

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Francis Albert
48 minutes ago, Dazo said:


Ffs can they not just get on with mourning their son. Maybe they feel responsible in some way and are lashing out. 

I think most parents would feel some responsibility and even guilt in the circumstances. These seem to be an exception in that they blame every one else but that may be a symptom of grief I suppose. 

I find it a bit strange that none of their anger seems to be directed at the players and platforms of the internet game that they have said they suspect killed their son. Parents of victims in the States took court action against the web sites supporting the "game" rather than the doctors treating the victims.

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1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

I think most parents would feel some responsibility and even guilt in the circumstances. These seem to be an exception in that they blame every one else but that may be a symptom of grief I suppose. 

I find it a bit strange that none of their anger seems to be directed at the players and platforms of the internet game that they have said they suspect killed their son. Parents of victims in the States took court action against the web sites supporting the "game" rather than the doctors treating the victims.


Yeah I agree. I think guilt/responsibility is definitely part of grieving but there seems more to this. Talk of stripped of their rights or inquiries into the nhs doesn’t sit right. I mean surely for a start it’s Archie’s rights they should be concerned about. 

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