Europa league/conference 22/23 - Zurich v Hearts

[briever]

2 minutes ago, **** the SPFL said:

Lincoln Red Imps waiters from Gibralter 

 

Butchers and binmen of Malta - but we'd never stoop so low as to the waiters of Gibraltar.

[Muppetboy]

1 hour ago, briever said:

 

Who would we almost certainly lose to?

Don’t think we would almost certainly lose to any of them

[briever]

6 minutes ago, Muppetboy said:

Don’t think we would almost certainly lose to any of them

 

I agree - that's why I asked him.

[Jambo-Fox]

6 hours ago, The Old Tolbooth said:

 

I don't think that can happen mate, Rangers, if they lose their Champs League qualifier will now drop into the EL group stages proper, whereas we could also be in that if we win our play off, but more than likely we'll be in the Conference League proper. 

I thought Sevco now went into the CL 3rd qualifying round (not 2nd)  which if they win takes them to the final CL qualifying round BUT if they lost (the 3rd qualifying round ) they would drop down to the Europa final qualifying round which if the lost would drop them into the Conference Group stages!

 

But it’s so complicated I could quite easily be wrong!

 

Whatever let’s hope Hearts win and get into the Europa Group stage!

♥️♥️♥️♥️

[Heartsmad1874]

12 minutes ago, Jambo-Fox said:

I thought Sevco now went into the CL 3rd qualifying round (not 2nd)  which if they win takes them to the final CL qualifying round BUT if they lost (the 3rd qualifying round ) they would drop down to the Europa final qualifying round which if the lost would drop them into the Conference Group stages!

 

But it’s so complicated I could quite easily be wrong!

 

Whatever let’s hope Hearts win and get into the Europa Group stage!

♥️♥️♥️♥️

Should Rangers lose in either UCL QR3 or UCL Play off round they'll drop to Europa group stages. 

[Heartsmad1874]

7 teams will now be in Priority One including ourselves.

 

2 of the 7 will be drawn against the 2 teams in Priority 4 whilst the others drawn against the 5 in Priority Three. On the balance of probability i think we'll be playing a loser from the Champions League, Champions Path which could easily be a team from Armenia, Luxembourg etc or it could be a Slovakian, Swedish team etc.  

[Waterboy]

4 hours ago, briever said:

 

Who would we almost certainly lose to?

 

Fenerbahce.

[Gorgie_Rules]

Not been keeping track, would Villareal winning the champions league still change things for us? Believe it could in terms if Celtic being in the CL groups?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 minute ago, Gorgie_Rules said:

Not been keeping track, would Villareal winning the champions league still change things for us? Believe it could in terms if Celtic being in the CL groups?

 

Not anymore. With the Russian clubs banned, Scottish champion (presumably Celtic) goes straight into the groups no matter what happens in this year's UCL.

[Cigaro]

Is it more financially worthwhile to get into the EL and maybe pick up the odd draw, or get into the ECL and possibly get a win or two?

[Robbo51]

6 minutes ago, Cigaro said:

Is it more financially worthwhile to get into the EL and maybe pick up the odd draw, or get into the ECL and possibly get a win or two?

Ideal financial would be get through to EL groups, hope we can get 3rd (obviously 1st and 2nd would be better but realistically 3rd is our best shout) and then get into Conference knockouts 

[Allowayjambo1874]

9 hours ago, Cigaro said:

Is it more financially worthwhile to get into the EL and maybe pick up the odd draw, or get into the ECL and possibly get a win or two?

UEFA are really promoting the conference league so the difference in prize money between Europa & Conference is not as large as you may think. The standard in the conference is definitely lower so going into the Europa group stage and winning one match would probably not be as beneficial financially if we went into conference and won two or three games.

 

Laurie Dunsire did a great breakdown of the prize money on scarves around the funnel a few episodes ago and the difference in cash between the competitions is near enough negligible in the grand scheme of things (50k here and there)

[briever]

12 hours ago, Waterboy said:

 

Fenerbahce.

 

Not convinced - tough match but hardly a given we'd lose.

Edited May 4, 2022 by briever

[Ricardo Quaresma]

On 26/04/2022 at 21:43, One five said:

Never thought of this, yeah that would be just s**t getting them in a euro game 🤦‍♂️

 

But we wouldn't have a bent weeg ref

[Waterboy]

19 hours ago, Waterboy said:

 

Brilliant work by whoever is running that account.  According to them, Hearts could face:

 

- Cyprus Cup Winners

- Serbia Cup Winners

- APOEL (assumed based on their current league position)

- Fenerbahce

- Ferencvaros

- Maribor (assumed based on their current league position)

- Bratislava

- Dudelange (assumed based on their current league position)

- HJK

- TNS

- Zalgiris

- Lincoln Red Imps

- Zurich

- Maccabi Haifa

 

This also assumes that in the qualifying rounds prior, the higher seeded team always wins the tie - so there could be some 'lesser' teams replacing those on the list above.

 

Some ties we could definitely win, some we would almost certainly lose.  Exciting times!

 

The twitter page has updated this list based on Villarreal going out last night, which had a knock on effect on some teams seeding.  Ferencvaros (one of the stronger teams based on coefficient) replaced by Bosnia's Zrinjski Mostar (now joint weakest team on the list).  

 

These teams will play each other in Q3, where there is no seeding, so all of the stronger teams could draw each other.  We will play one of the winners.  And this all based on current league positions (3 of the teams could change), and also based on the seeded teams always winning their ties in the earlier rounds (so some 'weaker' sides could replace those below).

 

- Cyprus Cup Winners

- Serbia Cup Winners

- APOEL (assumed based on their current league position)

- Fenerbahce

- Maribor (assumed based on their current league position)

- Bratislava

- Dudelange (assumed based on their current league position)

- HJK

- TNS

- Zalgiris

- Lincoln Red Imps

- Zurich

- Maccabi Haifa

- Zrinjski Mostar

[FarmerTweedy]

13 hours ago, Gorgie_Rules said:

Not been keeping track, would Villareal winning the champions league still change things for us? Believe it could in terms if Celtic being in the CL groups?

Villareal winning the Champions League was never ever going to change things for us, and still wouldn't have, even if they'd won last night!

[FarmerTweedy]

3 hours ago, Allowayjambo1874 said:

UEFA are really promoting the conference league so the difference in prize money between Europa & Conference is not as large as you may think. The standard in the conference is definitely lower so going into the Europa group stage and winning one match would probably not be as beneficial financially if we went into conference and won two or three games.

 

Laurie Dunsire did a great breakdown of the prize money on scarves around the funnel a few episodes ago and the difference in cash between the competitions is near enough negligible in the grand scheme of things (50k here and there)

It's not the 'prize money' element that makes the difference, it's the 'market pool'.  Depending on whether it was just us, or also sevco, in the Europa League group stage, the market pool could be worth an extra amount somewhere in the region of about £1.5m to £3m, or maybe even more! 

[One five]

1 hour ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

But we wouldn't have a bent weeg ref

True, would still not want them in a Euro game though.

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, FarmerTweedy said:

It's not the 'prize money' element that makes the difference, it's the 'market pool'.  Depending on whether it was just us, or also sevco, in the Europa League group stage, the market pool could be worth an extra amount somewhere in the region of about £1.5m to £3m, or maybe even more! 

My reading of the market pool payouts for the Europa league last season

 

Total market pool was 135 million Euros. This is distributed percentage wise based on the size of each countries TV revenue. Scotlands percentage of that was around 1%, so around 1.35 million. That’s divided by the number of clubs in the group stage from each country. In Scotland case that was 2 clubs (Celtic and Rangers) so that’s around 680k euros per club if it was divided equally.if only one club had been in the groups they would have got all of that 1.35 million

 

Thats my understanding of the market pool. If you see a way where it would be up to £3million can you point me in the right direction. I can see it being £1.5 million but only if we are the only Scottish club in the group stages

 

Am I also right in thinking that there is no market pool for the Conference League ?

Edited May 4, 2022 by JimmyCant

[FarmerTweedy]

12 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

My reading of the market pool payouts for the Europa league last season

 

Total market pool was 135 million Euros. This is distributed percentage wise based on the size of each countries TV revenue. Scotlands percentage of that was around 1%, so around 1.35 million. That’s divided by the number of clubs in the group stage from each country. In Scotland case that was 2 clubs (Celtic and Rangers) so that’s around 680k euros per club if it was divided equally.if only one club had been in the groups they would have got all of that 1.35 million

 

Thats my understanding of the market pool. If you see a way where it would be up to £3million can you point me in the right direction. I can see it being £1.5 million but only if we are the only Scottish club in the group stages

 

Am I also right in thinking that there is no market pool for the Conference League ?

I can't actually find the source now, but I've read in the past that Scotland's share was around £3m. I guess that source could have been wrong! I do know the pot size for each country varies depending on how many countries actually have teams in the group stage, as well as it being split between the teams from that country. 

 

I initially didn't think there was a market pool for the Conference League as I couldn't find mention of one anywhere, but I have recently seen folk saying there is one but it's about a sixth of the size of the Europa League one!

[Waterboy]

Swiss Ramble have posted a thread on Twitter looking at what Celtic can expect to make from playing in the Champions League Group stages next season.  In Euros:

 

- Participation alone         15.6m

- UEFA coefficient               9.1m

- TV Pool                             6.8m

- Prize money                     3.9m   (assumes 1 win & 1 draw)

 

- Less covid rebate           -1.2m

 

Total                                    34.2m (£30m)

 

When you add in gate receipts, sponsorship, other commercial/retail revenue from these games, it's estimated Celtic's overall revenue could reach £100m.

 

Hearts turnover the past couple of financial years has been around £12m and £7M....the £30m Celtic will get just for participating will possibly be double our entire turnover next season!

[JimmyCant]

There is also something called a solidarity pool, which I believe is money distributed to associations and divided up amongst all the associations clubs (might only be the top league) We’ve had a share of that in the past when Celtic were in the Champions league. Can’t remember how much it was

7 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

I can't actually find the source now, but I've read in the past that Scotland's share was around £3m. I guess that source could have been wrong! I do know the pot size for each country varies depending on how many countries actually have teams in the group stage, as well as it being split between the teams from that country. 

 

I initially didn't think there was a market pool for the Conference League as I couldn't find mention of one anywhere, but I have recently seen folk saying there is one but it's about a sixth of the size of the Europa League one!

 

[JimmyCant]

7 minutes ago, Waterboy said:

Swiss Ramble have posted a thread on Twitter looking at what Celtic can expect to make from playing in the Champions League Group stages next season.  In Euros:

 

- Participation alone         15.6m

- UEFA coefficient               9.1m

- TV Pool                             6.8m

- Prize money                     3.9m   (assumes 1 win & 1 draw)

 

- Less covid rebate           -1.2m

 

Total                                    34.2m (£30m)

 

When you add in gate receipts, sponsorship, other commercial/retail revenue from these games, it's estimated Celtic's overall revenue could reach £100m.

 

Hearts turnover the past couple of financial years has been around £12m and £7M....the £30m Celtic will get just for participating will possibly be double our entire turnover next season!

Those figures are not correct IMO although they will get a substantial amount of money which will dwarf what we get 

Edited May 4, 2022 by JimmyCant

[Waterboy]

2 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Those figures are not correct IMO

 

Fair enough, don't know if you're on twitter but they seem to be experts when it comes to football finances, they publish some pretty in depth financial analysis on teams all over Europe.  I wouldn't know whether they are accurate or not, but based on what I've seen of them I've no problem trusting them.

[hughesie27]

16 hours ago, Cigaro said:

Is it more financially worthwhile to get into the EL and maybe pick up the odd draw, or get into the ECL and possibly get a win or two?

Probably ECL as losing the play off gets us 250k alone, then we are more likely to win a game or 2.
Winning a game in the EL is only about 40k or so more than ECL.

 

The unknown for me though is how much more is TV money worth in EL compared to ECL. That could tip the scales towards EL.

[amadjambo]

17 hours ago, Waterboy said:

 

Fenerbahce.

Take it you think us losing to Rangers in the cup final is a certainty too then? 
 

some good teams that we could face, but none I think we would certainly lose to.

[Italian Lambretta]

Posters getting alll hung up about much we are going to make from either Europa or conference leagues.

Can we not just go and enjoy ourselves, get pished, have fun and whatever happens, happens.

Im just glad Im able to go back to Europe after enduring years of Levein pish and playing league cup rubbish.

[Ricardo Quaresma]

2 hours ago, One five said:

True, would still not want them in a Euro game though.

 

Absolutely; boring af

[One five]

4 minutes ago, Ricardo Quaresma said:

 

Absolutely; boring af

👍

[Waterboy]

12 minutes ago, amadjambo said:

Take it you think us losing to Rangers in the cup final is a certainty too then? 
 

some good teams that we could face, but none I think we would certainly lose to.

 

No mate, I think if we came up against Fenerbahce we would almost certainly lose the tie.  I respect your differing opinion 👍

[The Hogfather]

4 hours ago, Waterboy said:

 

The twitter page has updated this list based on Villarreal going out last night, which had a knock on effect on some teams seeding.  Ferencvaros (one of the stronger teams based on coefficient) replaced by Bosnia's Zrinjski Mostar (now joint weakest team on the list).  

 

These teams will play each other in Q3, where there is no seeding, so all of the stronger teams could draw each other.  We will play one of the winners.  And this all based on current league positions (3 of the teams could change), and also based on the seeded teams always winning their ties in the earlier rounds (so some 'weaker' sides could replace those below).

 

- Cyprus Cup Winners

- Serbia Cup Winners

- APOEL (assumed based on their current league position)

- Fenerbahce

- Maribor (assumed based on their current league position)

- Bratislava

- Dudelange (assumed based on their current league position)

- HJK

- TNS

- Zalgiris

- Lincoln Red Imps

- Zurich

- Maccabi Haifa

- Zrinjski Mostar

 

Started doing some research on how to get to any of these prospective away games last night and, from what I can ascertain, going direct from Edinburgh is not the easiest for all but maybe 3/4 of these. 

[hughesie27]

7 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

Started doing some research on how to get to any of these prospective away games last night and, from what I can ascertain, going direct from Edinburgh is not the easiest for all but maybe 3/4 of these. 

Which 3/4 are easy? TNS, Gibraltar, Zurich and Cyprus?

[The Hogfather]

Just now, hughesie27 said:

Which 3/4 are easy? TNS, Gibraltar, Zurich and Cyprus?

 

I didn't look at TNS because we'd likely drive down. Helsinki, Istanbul, Vilnius, Bratislava and Zurich all fly direct from here. The others you're most likely flying into a nearby city and travelling from there.

 

Malaga to Gibraltar (much cheaper than flying directly), Vienna for Maribor, Paris for Luxembourg, Tel Aviv for Haifa, Sarajevo for Mostar and I forget which airport in Cyprus. Think it's Larnaca. 

[Bauld]

I love how there's loads of messages on here showing a total lack of respect for teams in other countries. Shopkeepers, postmen, waiters etc

 

Which is exactly what we all complain about when England and other countries come in and take all our best players for buttons because they see our league as a shit league of postmen and pub regulars.

 

 

[JimmyCant]

One of the best and most cost effective ways to get anywhere in mainland EU Europe is to fly to the cheapest/nearest major city and get the train the rest of the way

 

For somewhere like Maribor for example I’d be looking at flying into Graz or Zagreb or even Milan and going the rest of the way by train.

 

all takes time but if your on a budget that’s the sacrifice you may have to make

 

We we’re in Budapest last week and came home the night after Rangers played in Leipzig. There were about 30 Rangers fans on the flight home. it’s way further from home than Leipzig but they found it the cheapest way to do it. Sometimes you need to be creative when you travel

Edited May 4, 2022 by JimmyCant

[JimmyCant]

13 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

I didn't look at TNS because we'd likely drive down. Helsinki, Istanbul, Vilnius, Bratislava and Zurich all fly direct from here. The others you're most likely flying into a nearby city and travelling from there.

 

Malaga to Gibraltar (much cheaper than flying directly), Vienna for Maribor, Paris for Luxembourg, Tel Aviv for Haifa, Sarajevo for Mostar and I forget which airport in Cyprus. Think it's Larnaca. 

 

[The Hogfather]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

One of the best and most cost effective ways to get anywhere in mainland EU Europe is to fly to the cheapest/nearest major city and get the train the rest of the way

 

For somewhere like Maribor for example I’d be looking at flying into Graz or Zagreb or even Milan and going the rest of the way by train.

 

all takes time but if your on a budget that’s the sacrifice you may have to make

 

I've looked into this too. Maribor, for example, seems to involve flying into Vienna and getting the train from there. When I did Dinamo Zagreb in 2009 it took roughly 22 hours to get there and I'm not so keen to replicate this, even if it does cost an extra few quid.

[JimmyCant]

3 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

I've looked into this too. Maribor, for example, seems to involve flying into Vienna and getting the train from there. When I did Dinamo Zagreb in 2009 it took roughly 22 hours to get there and I'm not so keen to replicate this, even if it does cost an extra few quid.

We did Prague by flying into Brno and getting the train. Saved us about £150 each and only another couple of hours travelling each way. Unfortunately we got stuck with the UJ fathers and sons mob but that’s another story.

[briever]

36 minutes ago, Bauld said:

I love how there's loads of messages on here showing a total lack of respect for teams in other countries. Shopkeepers, postmen, waiters etc

 

Which is exactly what we all complain about when England and other countries come in and take all our best players for buttons because they see our league as a shit league of postmen and pub regulars.

 

 

 

They literally are Shopkeepers, postmen, waiters etc in Gibraltar and Malta.

[The Hogfather]

37 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

We did Prague by flying into Brno and getting the train. Saved us about £150 each and only another couple of hours travelling each way. Unfortunately we got stuck with the UJ fathers and sons mob but that’s another story.

 

I think I'll end up putting together a spreadsheet of nearby major cities for each opponent and using that when the draw comes around. I don't mind the idea of travelling a couple of hundred miles from where we're playing, just not the idea of having to make three different connections each way.

[JimmyCant]

19 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

I think I'll end up putting together a spreadsheet of nearby major cities for each opponent and using that when the draw comes around. I don't mind the idea of travelling a couple of hundred miles from where we're playing, just not the idea of having to make three different connections each way.

Couple of the away games were going to get hardly any notice of where were going which makes it a mad rush to get in and get booked

 

Yeh I don’t mind going out of the way a bit. Edinburgh to Prague was about 7 hours total travelling including 2 hours at Stansted. When it gets up to 15-20 hours it’s a ball ache and you end up just paying for the more direct route 

Edited May 4, 2022 by JimmyCant

[Morse]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

We did Prague by flying into Brno and getting the train. Saved us about £150 each and only another couple of hours travelling each way. Unfortunately we got stuck with the UJ fathers and sons mob but that’s another story.

I lived and worked in Brno for about six months in 2000.  I flew home from Vienna once, as I recall it wasn't that long a drive.

[The Hogfather]

29 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Couple of the away games were going to get hardly any notice of where were going which makes it a mad rush to get in and get booked

 

Yeh I don’t mind going out of the way a bit. Edinburgh to Prague was about 7 hours total travelling including 2 hours at Stansted. When it gets up to 15-20 hours it’s a ball ache and you end up just paying for the more direct route 

 

I've been WFH since lockdown so it'll be easy enough for me to watch the draw and book flights fairly swiftly. It'll be a nightmare for those who don't have that luxury though.

[Heartsmad1874]

2 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

I've been WFH since lockdown so it'll be easy enough for me to watch the draw and book flights fairly swiftly. It'll be a nightmare for those who don't have that luxury though.

Don't want to jump in too fast incase for any reason UEFA switch home/away leg.

 

Seen many people jump the gun and book only for it to be switched.

[The Hogfather]

3 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Don't want to jump in too fast incase for any reason UEFA switch home/away leg.

 

Seen many people jump the gun and book only for it to be switched.

 

The alternative to that is you don't book straight away, wait a week for UEFA to make a decision and then see the price jump by a couple of hundred quid.

[JimmyCant]

27 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

 

The alternative to that is you don't book straight away, wait a week for UEFA to make a decision and then see the price jump by a couple of hundred quid.

A quick check to see if the destination city has more than one team competing in Europe should cover most eventualities. Only one team in Europe in OUR city as we know 😀

[Heartsmad1874]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

A quick check to see if the destination city has more than one team competing in Europe should cover most eventualities. Only one team in Europe in OUR city as we know 😀

Yeah for example, if we drew APOEL and Omonia were in the play off round and both were drawn at home at the same time one of them would have to be switched but as you say its easy to check these things before booking. 

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, Heartsmad1874 said:

Yeah for example, if we drew APOEL and Omonia were in the play off round and both were drawn at home at the same time one of them would have to be switched but as you say its easy to check these things before booking. 

I’m pretty sure the Prague game was switched around due to Spurs playing Slavia. Rings a bell.

[Heartsmad1874]

6 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I’m pretty sure the Prague game was switched around due to Spurs playing Slavia. Rings a bell.

They messed with the Infonet game aswell a few years back moved it from the Thursday to the Wednesday or something if i remember correctly.

[Yoda]

For any H1b5 fans looking in, it's the number 26, 44 or 124 buses to Portobello.