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Selkirkhmfc1874
1 minute ago, jr ewing said:

Changed days. 

Yeah for us because Robbie doesn't give them a chance 

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GinRummy
11 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

It shouldn't be harder if we developing kids because even the old firm who spend millions give kids game time more than Robbie 

Who should be getting game time out of our current crop?

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9 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

It shouldn't be harder if we developing kids because even the old firm who spend millions give kids game time more than Robbie 

 

If Robbie was giving the youngsters proper game time would you be patient with them and support the team as it struggled in the bottom six?

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Bazzas right boot
7 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

I think we need to give the relatively new backroom team, including the new CEO, a chance to properly assess and change the shortcomings the academy has clearly had under Craig Levein. The club is re emerging from the shambles that Joe Savage inherited.

Last season was all about getting out of the Championship at the first go, with Covid being a major distraction to the normal operation of the football club.

The investment made in the academy hasn't shown much, if any return, so far. Now that we seem to be establishing ourselves comfortably among the top clubs, and the scattergun approach to recruitment appears to be a thing of the past, better planning of our coaching and development of young players should be achieved. The young boys could certainly not have a better role model than Steven Naismith, which is a positive move in my opinion.

It's easier to introduce young talent into a strong first team, rather than the struggling team we had prior to the demotion. We have to have a high calibre of senior players who can show youngsters what it takes to be successful and support them on the pitch when they are involved in the first team. It was such an environment that produced John Robertson, Gary Mackay and Dave Bowman, and gave others a foothold in the professional game.

Having a reserve league to play young players against seasoned professionals of other clubs would make sense for our club, and others, but it doesn't look like happening soon. Maybe we should look to ask about a Colts team being entered into the Lowland League, similar to what Celtic and Rangers have been allowed to do.

 

John Robertson was a stroke of luck as well. 

 

A couple of players short and his brother got him a game, nothing to do with our scouting. On the back of hibs ****ing it up as well, who had chased him. 

 

Agreed tho, much easier, better and fun to Introduce young players into a winning side. 

 

 

 

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gorgieroar

Seen last week with being in championship last season we lost out on a £1/4 million payment from uefa that the other 10pl clubs got for their academy's last week

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Bazzas right boot
2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Who should be getting game time out of our current crop?

 

 

He has no idea. 

 

Just bored and this gave him an angle to get some pent up Robbie bashing out. 

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Eldar Hadzimehmedovic
3 minutes ago, jr ewing said:

100% this. Brentford does it with great success 🙌 

 

Totally. I think a few clubs will have been taking a long hard look at Brentford.

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5 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

This is correct IMO. 
scrapping the reserve league was a shite idea. 

And we end up with 💩 like b teams in the LL

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Selkirkhmfc1874
4 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Who should be getting game time out of our current crop?

Pollock wouldn't look out of place for one 

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Captain Lithuania
40 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Pollock would add something to the team for one 

Who would you play him over? Beni? Devlin? McEneff? 
 

The reason he’s not in the team is because he has been injured. 

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airthjambo
10 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

When we've brought through youngsters in the past we got results and look at when JJ brought home the scottish cup how many kids were in that team 

2 Naysmith & Ritchie

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Selkirkhmfc1874
Just now, Captain Lithuania said:

Who would you play him over? Beni? Devlin? McEneff? 
 

The reason he’s not in the team is because he has been injured. 

Beni injured , Devlin was suspended so there was an ideal opportunity but as I've said Robbie doesn't play youngsters !! How many youngsters has Robbie gave a first team Debut too ?

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EH11 2NL

Nothing to do with Robbie, its been poor for years. Someone posted the names that have came through on another thread earlier, other than Lee Wallace we've hardly produced anyone decent. Hickey not really an academy product, CP and Walker probably the only other notable players. Nicholson, King done ok but not exactly great, done us a turn when we were in the shite but had it been normal circumstances how would they have faired?! I'm sure the academy is doing well at age group competitions etc but how many are likely to actually become a Hearts mainstay. 10+years of academy squads since Wallace broke through is a hell of an amount of players for very little return. 

 

Having said all that I've no real opinion on closing it, don't know the running costs and also feel it lessens the club a bit without one, but we surely need a better return (I am aware we can't produce a craig gordon every year unfortunately) 

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Eldar Hadzimehmedovic
17 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

When we've brought through youngsters in the past we got results and look at when JJ brought home the scottish cup how many kids were in that team 

 

That was 25 years ago. The movement of players then was closer to how it was in the 1940s than it is to now. It's like two different sports now. The scouting operations of the super clubs are on another planet. If we want to sell a player for 5m, imo we are far more likely to do that picking up an EPL reject at 21 and selling him 18 months later than we are developing our own. A potential 5m player in our academy would probably be gone with his voice barely broken. 

 

Imo, the main reason fans cling to academies is for emotional reasons. I'm not sure they make much business sense in 2022.

Edited by Eldar Hadzimehmedovic
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jambo_No5
6 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Pollock wouldn't look out of place for one 

You’ve named one player in this whole thread (that you started) that you say wouldn’t look out of place in the first team. If Robbie doesn’t give youth a chance, then can you tell us what youth players should be getting a chance. 

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Selkirkhmfc1874
2 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

That was 25 years ago. The movement of players then was closer to how it was in the 1940s than it is to now. It's like two different sports now. The scouting operations of the super clubs are on another planet. If we want to sell a player for 5m, imo we are far more likely to do that picking up an EPL reject at 21 and selling him 18 months later than we are developing our own. A potential 5m player in our academy would probably be gone with his voice barely broken. 

Sevco didn't do that badly yesterday with paterson , Aberdeen looking like the lad Ramsey going to go for big money aswell as few more in our league not to mention our very own Hickey 

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Rogue Daddy
18 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Maybe we should look to ask about a Colts team being entered into the Lowland League, similar to what Celtic and Rangers have been allowed to do.

Good post mate… and, as someone who has absolutely no experienced knowledge of our academy, I think what you say here is key. As a couple have stated, our under 15/16/18s have all done very well recently - so we’re clearly doing something right. 
IMO (or from the outside looking in) it’s the ‘step up’ or ‘gap’ form u18 to senior squad, that requires sorting out… and I don’t believe it’s entirely Hearts fault. We desperately need a colt team or reserve team/league of some sort, to bridge this gap. 

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Selkirkhmfc1874
3 minutes ago, jambo_No5 said:

You’ve named one player in this whole thread (that you started) that you say wouldn’t look out of place in the first team. If Robbie doesn’t give youth a chance, then can you tell us what youth players should be getting a chance. 

Can you tell me how many kids Robbie has gave a first team debut too ? 

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Fxxx the SPFL
6 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Beni injured , Devlin was suspended so there was an ideal opportunity but as I've said Robbie doesn't play youngsters !! How many youngsters has Robbie gave a first team Debut too ?

How many of them are actually good enough though the youth players you mentioned that have been played by the sheep and the Arabs are better quality imo the young full back at Aberdeen looked different class against us at Tynecastle 

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Eldar Hadzimehmedovic
Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Sevco didn't do that badly yesterday with paterson , Aberdeen looking like the lad Ramsey going to go for big money aswell as few more in our league not to mention our very own Hickey 

 

Hickey is a weird one because he could be used to back up both sides of the argument - did we develop him or poach him from a bigger club that rejected him?

 

We can't compare ourselves to Rangers. They're a club whose youngsters we should be looking to take dibs on if they don't make it. 

 

Fair enough on Ramsay. Will be interesting to see how that goes. 

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Hmfc1965
5 minutes ago, EH11 2NL said:

Nothing to do with Robbie, its been poor for years. Someone posted the names that have came through on another thread earlier, other than Lee Wallace we've hardly produced anyone decent. Hickey not really an academy product, CP and Walker probably the only other notable players. Nicholson, King done ok but not exactly great, done us a turn when we were in the shite but had it been normal circumstances how would they have faired?! I'm sure the academy is doing well at age group competitions etc but how many are likely to actually become a Hearts mainstay. 10+years of academy squads since Wallace broke through is a hell of an amount of players for very little return. 

 

Having said all that I've no real opinion on closing it, don't know the running costs and also feel it lessens the club a bit without one, but we surely need a better return (I am aware we can't produce a craig gordon every year unfortunately) 

It depends what you expect. 

We possibly could play more Academy players but would have to accept a drop in standard. 

No Academy consistently produces top clas players year on year, and 3 from one group would be exceptional. 

The other side of that is if we do produce Good players they leave for next to nothing. 

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jambo_No5
Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Can you tell me how many kids Robbie has gave a first team debut too ? 

I can’t. Now can you tell me what youth players should be given a chance?

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Pasquale for King
1 minute ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

Hickey is a weird one because he could be used to back up both sides of the argument - did we develop him or poach him from a bigger club that rejected him?

 

We can't compare ourselves to Rangers. They're a club whose youngsters we should be looking to take dibs on if they don't make it. 

 

Fair enough on Ramsay. Will be interesting to see how that goes. 

I think we did that with Harry Cochrane, Brandon, Currie etc without much success. 

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airthjambo
4 minutes ago, blairdin said:

Grant Murray was involved that day too. 

True but didn't play

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GinRummy
14 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Pollock wouldn't look out of place for one 

Pollock looked a decent player. Not sure who he’d replace though? Even off the bench he’d struggle to play much, so many tight games. 

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Fxxx the SPFL
2 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Can you tell me how many kids Robbie has gave a first team debut too ? 

You’re starting to sound like a politician answer the question that @jambo_No5 asked you 

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Eldar Hadzimehmedovic
3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I think we did that with Harry Cochrane, Brandon, Currie etc without much success. 

 

True. Maybe those clubs are not big enough 😄

 

Beni is the absolute ideal signing profile for Hearts imo. Ideally, we'd be able to scout like that and run the academy. Maybe don't need to choose 

 

Also, wee aside, I think we have ourselves to blame for Cochrane. Dunno what happened there. We ****ed up. Surely we could have managed him to at least make him look like a talent worth a bit of money for a middling English team.

Edited by Eldar Hadzimehmedovic
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Selkirkhmfc1874
2 minutes ago, jambo_No5 said:

I can’t. Now can you tell me what youth players should be given a chance?

Connor Smith, Chris Hamilton another 2

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Selkirkhmfc1874

In my view if kids not going to be given a chance the millions of pounds being put into academy is a total waste of money 

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Pasquale for King

Something not quite right with the Academy, hopefully Savage can get to the bottom of it. Anyone else think it’s Leveins appointment and fellow Fifer Roger Arnott not doing his job properly?

A combination of no reserve league, hardly bringing anyone through and a manager reluctant to play them anyway needs to be solved. 

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26 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Yeah for us because Robbie doesn't give them a chance 

Really, funny you've never mentioned it before 

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davemclaren

Robbie should chuck a few of the academy guys in against Auchinlek. That would be a sign of intent. 

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Selkirkhmfc1874
1 minute ago, XB52 said:

Really, funny you've never mentioned it before 

I've mentioned it quite few times ! I've also mentioned few times Robbie doing a good job but blooding kids the one thing I'd like to see him do more 

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Pasquale for King
4 minutes ago, Eldar Hadzimehmedovic said:

 

True. Maybe those clubs are not big enough 😄

 

Beni is the absolute ideal signing profile for Hearts imo. Ideally, we'd be able to scout like that and run the academy. Maybe don't need to choose 

Yes indeed but when those types are unavailable we need to give youngsters a wee run, even if it’s off the bench in a game that’s won. Having players the fans identify with a important in general and in derbies for instance..
Changes need to be made. 

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Pasquale for King
3 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Robbie should chuck a few of the academy guys in against Auchinlek. That would be a sign of intent. 

Easy tiger 😱😜

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EH11 2NL
5 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

It depends what you expect. 

We possibly could play more Academy players but would have to accept a drop in standard. 

No Academy consistently produces top clas players year on year, and 3 from one group would be exceptional. 

The other side of that is if we do produce Good players they leave for next to nothing. 

I agree, and would not play them for the sake of it. I think a business decision needs made. How much has it cost in say 10 years and the actual first team player return, and try to compare that to using the money in the transfer budget instead. Obviously if you shut it you never get a Craig Gordon. It's so difficult to keep anyone nowadays for clubs of our size, look at the Jordan McGhee saga when he showed a little bit of form - left to join an u23 side! 

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Bazzas right boot
29 minutes ago, gorgieroar said:

Seen last week with being in championship last season we lost out on a £1/4 million payment from uefa that the other 10pl clubs got for their academy's last week

 

We got £500k free from the Scottish gov tho. 😁

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GinRummy
4 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

In my view if kids not going to be given a chance the millions of pounds being put into academy is a total waste of money 

To me it seems a bit more complicated than that. A guy not making the jump form youth football to first team football isn’t necessarily a bad player but loaning them out doesn’t seem to bring many back ready for the first team either. 
 

Robbie clearly likes young energetic players, Cochrane, Beni. So surely he’d choose our own guys if they were good enough?

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Selkirkhmfc1874
Just now, GinRummy said:

To me it seems a bit more complicated than that. A guy not making the jump form youth football to first team football isn’t necessarily a bad player but loaning them out doesn’t seem to bring many back ready for the first team either. 
 

Robbie clearly likes young energetic players, Cochrane, Beni. So surely he’d choose our own guys if they were good enough?

Well just shut the thing down then rather than throwing millions of pounds down the drain with no return 

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Mr Rabbit
1 hour ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

We would be aswell closing it down because Robbie just doesn't give youth a proper chance in my opinion .

😂😂😂 what a weird thing to message when we aren’t even playing at the moment.

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1 hour ago, StevenNaismith said:

A few folk on here could do with spending a bit of time up at the Oriam. Absolute nonsense spouted on here when there’s no games.

Touché 

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Led Tasso
1 hour ago, Jodami said:

The issue is definitely the step up is significant and there is no reserve league. The loan system doesn't seem to be working for many of our young players although Henderson coming back and being given a chance might test that.

When it comes right down to it though we are a community owned club and not to have a youth academy in place for that community would just be plain wrong.

 

This keeps getting missed. The route from academy to match day squad is a staircase and the reserve team is the penultimate step on that staircase. It's currently missing which means that the front office is having to figure out creative ways to help players make the big step up without it.

 

Our system isn't broken, it's just stuck in a f---ing pandemic.

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GinRummy
Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Well just shut the thing down then rather than throwing millions of pounds down the drain with no return 

I’d rather they tried to make it better than close it tbh but I appreciate your frustration. 

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Selkirkhmfc1874
1 minute ago, GinRummy said:

I’d rather they tried to make it better than close it tbh but I appreciate your frustration. 

I'd rather to see some kids being given a chance to at least see some return for the millions being spent

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Bazzas right boot
32 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Pollock wouldn't look out of place for one 

 

Aye, let's drop Haring, Beni, Devlin or McKay and play him. 

 

Cracking stuff. 

 

Not to mention he did play some lc games and got Injured. 

 

Pollock right now Is the kind of player who will definitely help the side get 3rd and challenge the of. 

👍

 

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GinRummy
Just now, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

I'd rather to see some kids being given a chance to at least see some return for the millions being spent

If they were considered good enough they’d be playing. Cochrane and Beni had barely played when we signed them and they were chucked straight in. There’s no reason at all RN wouldn’t play our own young guys if they were of a similar standard.

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Pasquale for King
1 hour ago, StevenNaismith said:

A few folk on here could do with spending a bit of time up at the Oriam. Absolute nonsense spouted on here when there’s no games.

Are we allowed to? 
Have you any thoughts on why we aren’t bringing graduates through into the first team squad at the moment? 

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Just now, GinRummy said:

If they were considered good enough they’d be playing. Cochrane and Beni had barely played when we signed them and they were chucked straight in. There’s no reason at all RN wouldn’t play our own young guys if they were of a similar standard.

There is , he hates Hearts , hes not a Hearts man , jkb said so…

 

whole threads ridiculous but you see the poster , see the multiple times the same poster says the same thing and 😑 

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Hmfc1965
14 minutes ago, EH11 2NL said:

I agree, and would not play them for the sake of it. I think a business decision needs made. How much has it cost in say 10 years and the actual first team player return, and try to compare that to using the money in the transfer budget instead. Obviously if you shut it you never get a Craig Gordon. It's so difficult to keep anyone nowadays for clubs of our size, look at the Jordan McGhee saga when he showed a little bit of form - left to join an u23 side! 

That's where I am.

I also think a Colts team in the Lowland or most likely East of Scotland league would be a good idea if there's no reserve teams. 

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Bazzas right boot
41 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

You only need to look around the premiership to see the likes of Dundee United, Aberdeen etc bringing players through and playing them in the first team

 

 

Aberdeen, who were 2nd and 3rd for over 5 years , then ended up 4th behind Killie, Hibs and Well and who  are now 7th, can't get more than 10k at a game and a team we have overtaken instantly on promotion? 

 

Dundee Utd, who spent 3 seasons in the championship before the guy you are slagging sorted them out and got them promoted. 

Also the team the guy you are slagging just this season has a 7-2 agg score against?

A club also in a lot of  debt. 

 

Aye, definitely the clubs  to look to in order for us to get 3rd, move forward and challenge for cups. 

 

Cracking stuff. 

 

 

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