Our Academy.

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Are we allowed to? 
Have you any thoughts on why we aren’t bringing graduates through into the first team squad at the moment? 

 

 

On the 2nd question - Because they are too good and Robbie wants to waste money on journeymen , hold the club back and get the sack. 

 

What do you think the answer to that ridiculous question is? 

[Niemi’s gloves]

26 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Can you tell me how many kids Robbie has gave a first team debut too ? 

As far as I can see the answer is three in his current spell: Scott McGill, Finlay Pollock and Aídan Denholm 

 

Not too shoddy in 18 months, given that he had been given the clear objective last year of winning promotion at the first attempt and this year of an immediate return to the top six. 

[Hmfc1965]

9 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

If they were considered good enough they’d be playing. Cochrane and Beni had barely played when we signed them and they were chucked straight in. There’s no reason at all RN wouldn’t play our own young guys if they were of a similar standard.

I'd have thought it obvious players at Everton and Brighton are likely to be better than our Academy players. 

[jambo19]

Need to factor a few things in to it;

- is their stability in the first team now to introduce players given the uncertainty in recent years?

- is there a gap in the first team to be occupied regularly or would a loan move give more regular time? Halliday, Walker, Smith, Haring all out of contract 

- are the current youngsters the right age to step up in terms of physical, mental and technical ability?

 

I think the likes of Stone, Watson, Denholm, Logan, Pollock, will all get chances in the coming years. If Robbie can stabilise the team and keep us pushing for Europe, plus buying talent like Beni and Devlin then selling for profit this will likely be the business model under Savage and Neilson. After all we were in the championship last year...patience.

[Pasquale for King]

7 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

This keeps getting missed. The route from academy to match day squad is a staircase and the reserve team is the penultimate step on that staircase. It's currently missing which means that the front office is having to figure out creative ways to help players make the big step up without it.

 

Our system isn't broken, it's just stuck in a f---ing pandemic.

It was curtailed in season 19-20, so one season and a half and we can’t bring players through, but other teams seem to manage perfectly well?

The uglies, Aberdeen, Hibs and St Johnstone pulled out anyway and are still bringing players through. It can be done. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

3 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

Aberdeen, who were 2nd and 3rd for over 5 years , then ended up 4th behind Killie, Hibs and Well and who  are now 7th, can't get more than 10k at a game and a team we have overtaken instantly on promotion? 

 

Dundee Utd, who spent 3 seasons in the championship before the guy you are slagging sorted them out and got them promoted. 

Also the team the guy you are slagging just this season has a 7-2 agg score against?

A club also in a lot of  debt. 

 

Aye, definitely the clubs  to look to in order for us to get 3rd, move forward and challenge for cups. 

 

Cracking stuff. 

 

 

I'm not slagging anybody and infact I've said Robbie is doing a good job and have backed Robbie all over this forum all season but the one thing I'd like him to do better is give kids more of a first team chance 

[GinRummy]

Just now, Hmfc1965 said:

I'd have thought it obvious players at Everton and Brighton are likely to be better than our Academy players. 

Yes but just as inexperienced. So RN is clearly not against young players or inexperienced players was my point. 

[hmfc_liam06]

1 hour ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Obviously lots going on at the Oriam but the fact of the matter is Robbie doesn't give kids a proper chance in the first team 

Who would you drop from the team Robbie has sitting third and which youths would take their place?

Edited January 5, 2022 by hmfc_liam06

[Footballfirst]

Closing the academy isn't a zero or low cost cost option.

 

Unless the first team squad bases itself at Tynecastle, then you still need access to training facilities with, at a minimum, 1 grass pitch, 1 astro pitch, an indoor facility, a strength & conditioning room, together with a laundry, office space, kitchen facilities etc. 

[Selkirkhmfc1874]

4 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

As far as I can see the answer is three in his current spell: Scott McGill, Finlay Pollock and Aídan Denholm 

 

Not too shoddy in 18 months, given that he had been given the clear objective last year of winning promotion at the first attempt and this year of an immediate return to the top six. 

How many minutes have they actually played between them?

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

It was curtailed in season 19-20, so one season and a half and we can’t bring players through, but other teams seem to manage perfectly well?

The uglies, Aberdeen, Hibs and St Johnstone pulled out anyway and are still bringing players through. It can be done. 

 

Are they? I admit I don't follow their rosters closely enough to know.

 

What players have come through for them since the March 2020 shutdown that are getting regular game time?

[SomethingAboutObua]

Neilson doesn't give youth a chance but to be honest I'm not blaming him for it this season. The club's been stagnant since he first left and I'd rather we re-established ourselves as and grow from being the country's 3rd force. 

 

 Honestly not sure how I feel about the academy anymore, it's been absolutely shocking and offered very low return. If it and Arnott aren't getting ripped apart and rebuilt then it's a waste tbh.

[SomethingAboutObua]

1 minute ago, Footballfirst said:

Closing the academy isn't a zero or low cost cost option.

 

Unless the first team squad bases itself at Tynecastle, then you still need access to training facilities with, at a minimum, 1 grass pitch, 1 astro pitch, an indoor facility, a strength & conditioning room, together with a laundry, office space, kitchen facilities etc. 

I'm not in favour of closing the academy but those costs exist with or without the academy anyway? 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

On the 2nd question - Because they are too good and Robbie wants to waste money on journeymen , hold the club back and get the sack. 

 

What do you think the answer to that ridiculous question is? 

I was asking someone that knows about football his opinion, we all know your Ill informed Bob loving nonsense. 
He would rather play Halliday than Cochrane, or any other youngster, because he can’t coach or improve players. 
 

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, SomethingAboutObua said:

I'm not in favour of closing the academy but those costs exist with or without the academy anyway? 

That's the point I'm making, as some will be assuming that we would save all our costs at Riccarton.

[Bazzas right boot]

1 minute ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

I'm not slagging anybody and infact I've said Robbie is doing a good job and have backed Robbie all over this forum all season but the one thing I'd like him to do better is give kids more of a first team chance 

 

They'll get a chance if good enough for what we need. 

If not they'll get punted and ply their trade elsewhere. 

 

It's not a head scratcher. 

 

In terms of the academy there is a discussion to be had about it's return and cost, however it has nothing to do with Robbie not playing youngsters. 

 

We need good players, players that will improve us. 

If they come from our youth - great, if not we look elsewhere. 

 

 

[Hmfc1965]

6 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Yes but just as inexperienced. So RN is clearly not against young players or inexperienced players was my point. 

I was agreeing with you. 

[GinRummy]

1 minute ago, Hmfc1965 said:

I was agreeing with you. 

Sorry, misread your post 👍

[Bazzas right boot]

4 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Closing the academy isn't a zero or low cost cost option.

 

Unless the first team squad bases itself at Tynecastle, then you still need access to training facilities with, at a minimum, 1 grass pitch, 1 astro pitch, an indoor facility, a strength & conditioning room, together with a laundry, office space, kitchen facilities etc. 

 

Good Post. 

 

The actual youth players are relatively low cost and a small variable cost in what is a big and necessary fixed cost that is needed no matter what. 

 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 hour ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

When we've brought through youngsters in the past we got results and look at when JJ brought home the scottish cup how many kids were in that team 

I believe answer is 2. Paul Ritchie and Gary Naysmith. Hardly a barrowload. If we won cup now, we'd have Craig Gordon, so difference of one. If Jamie Walker was in team, it would be two apiece. 

What's your point?

[EH11 2NL]

15 minutes ago, Hmfc1965 said:

That's where I am.

I also think a Colts team in the Lowland or most likely East of Scotland league would be a good idea if there's no reserve teams. 

The gap from successful younger ages to first team does seem to be too great. I'm sure we were offered a positon for a colt team back when the OF were lobbying for it and Levein said we couldn't afford to run 2 teams each weekend. Maybe needs relooked at. 

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Good Post. 

 

The actual youth players are relatively low cost and a small variable cost in what is a big and necessary fixed cost that is needed no matter what. 

Yes. You can also factor in the cash received from the SFA for operating an "elite" academy.  All the players that are U16 are amateurs, their coaches and scouts are part time.  You could save a bit at the margins such as on travel costs and investment at Balerno HS, but not a huge amount.

[Bazzas right boot]

9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

I was asking someone that knows about football his opinion, we all know your Ill informed Bob loving nonsense. 
He would rather play Halliday than Cochrane, or any other youngster, because he can’t coach or improve players. 
 

 

Every time we win under Bob-

 

 

 

You are rabid. 

 

 

 

 

[Niemi’s gloves]

2 minutes ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

How many minutes have they actually played between them?

Scott McGill is getting plenty of game time under his belt on loan at Airdrie, likewise Aidan Denholm at Berwick Rangers. Finlay Pollock is still eligible to play for the U-18s when he is not ill or injured.

But surely the point is that the club is going through a big change in the level of expectation and hopefully achievement. I don’t think that in future we’ll see many 16, 17 or 18 year olds jump straight into regular first team football at the level we are aiming for, regardless of who the manager is. Maybe one or two in a decade who are exceptionally talented and physically ready at an early age. But otherwise the path is likely to be through loans at an increasingly high standard. 

[Pasquale for King]

10 minutes ago, Led Tasso said:

 

Are they? I admit I don't follow their rosters closely enough to know.

 

What players have come through for them since the March 2020 shutdown that are getting regular game time?

So you have Doig (ironically enough) and Campbell at Hibs, Ramsey and Maclenzie at Aberdeen, Welch and Montgomery at Celtic, Patterson and Mcrorie, not sure about St Johnstone but Ballyntine is one I think. 
Don’t think we’ve had any. 

[Bazzas right boot]

7 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Yes. You can also factor in the cash received from the SFA for operating an "elite" academy.  All the players that are U16 are amateurs, their coaches and scouts are part time.  You could save a bit at the margins such as on travel costs and investment at Balerno HS, but not a huge amount.

 

As per, you've it the nail on head in terms of finances. 

It shouldn't need "spelt out" but as per you have. 

 

Binning youth players would save very little and we'd lose every possible benefit going. 

 

Bob also will play youth if they are good enough. 

If not, they'll get canned and we move on

 

 

 

 

 

[leith_dude]

People using Brentford as an example of a club not having a youth system is a red herring to me, they are located in an area that is teeming with top level professional football clubs so it is much easier for them to pick up players from other clubs.

 

Do people seriously want us to be in a position where any local talented footballers only have Hibs as a potential route from youth football into a professional football career?

 

I will always want Hearts to have a youth setup because as well as the potential to benefit the first team from time to time I think the club actually has a responsibility to provide a pathway into the game in the same way that big companies offer apprenticeships in the same way.  Even if that means players failing to make the grade or only forging careers at a lower level.

[Aussie Jambo]

Examples why we should field our best & productive players. 

Anyone doing an apprenticeship in any field knows that you need to do 4-5 years before you are truly qualified at your profession. We seem to loan out all these kids to lower league teams? All they will learn from that is how to play in lower leagues. Blood them in first team and if they prove themselves then keep playing them. Let the old boys worry about young players taking spots improves quality. Or as others have said before why bother if you cherry pick 2 players out of 20 but never actually play them. 

Would hate to be a young player now. 

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

So you have Doig (ironically enough) and Campbell at Hibs, Ramsey and Maclenzie at Aberdeen, Welch and Montgomery at Celtic, Patterson and Mcrorie, not sure about St Johnstone but Ballyntine is one I think. 
Don’t think we’ve had any. 

 

Ramsey is good imo and will go for good money. 

 

Doig wasn't better than Hickey so left for a better chance of a breakthrough. 

The clubs have made nothing from those players so far, we've made £1m on Hickey. Great find and spot from CL. 

 

Robinson, Holt, Morrison, Zanatta, Hickey are all playing football at a professional level. 

 

Our very own Craig Gordon who is Litterally playing for us now netted us £9m before coming back. 

 

Also, 

 

In one season we're above Aberdeen and Hibs, and St Johnstone are bottom of the league. So I don't think these clubs are a good template for a successful side over the long term and in line with our ambitions. 

 

Is the main goal for Hearts to punt players or have a successful and improving team? 

The latter always for me. We have that. 

 

Folk have even quoted Brentford as a good model. 

Brentford are shite and will do nothing of note, ever. 

They'll never even play in Europe. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pasquale for King]

15 minutes ago, Aussie Jambo said:

Examples why we should field our best & productive players. 

Anyone doing an apprenticeship in any field knows that you need to do 4-5 years before you are truly qualified at your profession. We seem to loan out all these kids to lower league teams? All they will learn from that is how to play in lower leagues. Blood them in first team and if they prove themselves then keep playing them. Let the old boys worry about young players taking spots improves quality. Or as others have said before why bother if you cherry pick 2 players out of 20 but never actually play them. 

Would hate to be a young player now. 

Good post. 

[Pasquale for King]

16 minutes ago, leith_dude said:

People using Brentford as an example of a club not having a youth system is a red herring to me, they are located in an area that is teeming with top level professional football clubs so it is much easier for them to pick up players from other clubs.

 

Do people seriously want us to be in a position where any local talented footballers only have Hibs as a potential route from youth football into a professional football career?

 

I will always want Hearts to have a youth setup because as well as the potential to benefit the first team from time to time I think the club actually has a responsibility to provide a pathway into the game in the same way that big companies offer apprenticeships in the same way.  Even if that means players failing to make the grade or only forging careers at a lower level.

Spot on, it’s a huge part of being a community/family club. 

[Pasquale for King]

26 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Every time we win under Bob-

 

 

 

You are rabid. 

 

 

 

 

Half right. 
You have any proof that Neilson will do for any youngster what Levein did for him, play him even though he’s not quite at the required level?

[Bull's-eye]

There's unfortunately a very large group of noisy clueless idiots that have an "Old firm" must win at all costs mentality that claim to support Hearts.

 

In reality it's a very selfish blinkered existence but unfortunately it has influence on how we progress as a club.

 

Strong leadership is required and hopefully the tide is turning and the build for a secure club competitive on every level is going in the right direction.

 

Looks good to me tbh.

 

Will it silence the loons.

 

Not a chance

 

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Ramsey is good imo and will go for good money. 

 

Doig wasn't better than Hickey so left for a better chance of a breakthrough. 

The clubs have made nothing from those players so far, we've made £1m on Hickey. Great find and spot from CL. 

 

Robinson, Holt, Morrison, Zanatta, Hickey are all playing football at a professional level. 

 

Our very own Craig Gordon who is Litterally playing for us now netted us £9m before coming back. 

 

Also, 

 

In one season we're above Aberdeen and Hibs, and St Johnstone are bottom of the league. So I don't think these clubs are a good template for a successful side over the long term and in line with our ambitions. 

 

Is the main goal for Hearts to punt players or have a successful and improving team? 

The latter always for me. We have that. 

 

Folk have even quoted Brentford as a good model. 

Brentford are shite and will do nothing of note, ever. 

They'll never even play in Europe. 

 

 

 

 

 

Levein didn’t spot Hickey, they asked the video analysts to look for youngsters being released from other clubs to see if any are good enough. 
The youth coaches had been telling them for months he was the best LB at the club before he played him. 
All season you’ve lauded Hibs and Aberdeen as being the benchmark we need to beat but now they’re crap and not to be emulated? Saints won two cups with academy graduates in their team. 
Hickey didn’t play another game for us after Covid which is what we were talking about. 
I’ve not mentioned Brentford. 

[Niemi’s gloves]

14 minutes ago, Aussie Jambo said:

Examples why we should field our best & productive players. 

Anyone doing an apprenticeship in any field knows that you need to do 4-5 years before you are truly qualified at your profession. We seem to loan out all these kids to lower league teams? All they will learn from that is how to play in lower leagues. Blood them in first team and if they prove themselves then keep playing them. Let the old boys worry about young players taking spots improves quality. Or as others have said before why bother if you cherry pick 2 players out of 20 but never actually play them. 

Would hate to be a young player now. 

We were in a desperate situation financially and on the park in the early ‘80s but were extremely luck to have two extremely talented youngsters on the books in Robbo and Gary Mackay and another who was pretty decent and physically strong for his age in Dave Bowman. I don’t think you can go from that to our current situation. If we are ever lucky enough to have another Robbo, I’m sure he’ll get his chance just as Aaron Hickey did. But for most promising youngsters, the only way to get to the level we are now at is likely to involve spells out on loan. 

[Hesh]

6 minutes ago, leith_dude said:

People using Brentford as an example of a club not having a youth system is a red herring to me, they are located in an area that is teeming with top level professional football clubs so it is much easier for them to pick up players from other clubs.

 

Do people seriously want us to be in a position where any local talented footballers only have Hibs as a potential route from youth football into a professional football career?

 

I will always want Hearts to have a youth setup because as well as the potential to benefit the first team from time to time I think the club actually has a responsibility to provide a pathway into the game in the same way that big companies offer apprenticeships in the same way.  Even if that means players failing to make the grade or only forging careers at a lower level.

in 2022 local is the full central belt and Tayside although I’d agree when you’re younger and you have to do mum or dads taxi you might get pushed towards a geographically closer club.
 

I’m sure porty 05 or 6 just punted a number of kids to the rangers and Motherwell, I wonder if edinburgh clubs didn’t have any interest in them? These kids are a free hit for those clubs because there’s next to no cost incurred by them.

 

There are a lot of factors when going to a club the main thing is what’s available in the players position. To me there’s no point in going to a club unless you’re likely to be first choice in the position. Totally no point in being third choice and to me the club should never be looking at a player who would only be third choice.

 

kids (and parents) can get sucked in because ‘their’ club wants to sign their kid. 
 

 

 

 

[18Jambo_dave74]

I can’t say I’ve seen any youngster at the club, or aware of any youngster, who is even remotely close to challenging for a first team place. As has been pointed out Pollock and Logan have suffered with injuries this season. I think as a squad we’ve not had too many injuries (about time!) therefore there’s not been much scope to put youngsters on the bench. We’ve seen the likes of McEneff and Walker left out of squads altogether in recent months. 
 

In terms of Neilson playing youngsters, I recall him making Jack Hamilton our no1 and playing him regularly. I don’t think there’d have been many people who’d have liked Hamilton to continue as our no1 and equally Neilson wouldn’t have been praised for sticking with him. 
 

I remember people saying things like Lewis Moore deserves to be playing; Andy Irving should be made one of our highest paid players. Well I’d rather watch the likes of Beni and Barrie McKay play for Hearts. 
 

Not aimed at the OP as he seems to be making reasonable points but there really are some joyless people out there. For the first time in years we’ve got a good team that are performing on the park however some people seem to think we should be challenging the old firm; we only play well for 45 minutes; Neilson doesn’t improve players; our goalie has too much to do; we don’t play enough youngsters etc etc. There’s elements of truth to various points and of course we should always look to improve but there always seems to be over the top criticism for something. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Selkirkhmfc1874 said:

Pollock would add something to the team for one 

Instead of? 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, R1874 said:

Logan

Hamilton

Smith

Watson

 

All could easily get minutes now or next year. For example, do we need to replace Walker with a new journeyman signing or give Smith a chance. If Halliday leaves can Watson cover him etc. 

 

We have a great first xi and subs. Time to integrate some kids

 

Smith couldn’t hack it at Arbroath last season, is in and out of Queens Park in League One this season so but of a stretch to think he can play first team football for us. 

[Aussie Jambo]

32 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

We were in a desperate situation financially and on the park in the early ‘80s but were extremely luck to have two extremely talented youngsters on the books in Robbo and Gary Mackay and another who was pretty decent and physically strong for his age in Dave Bowman. I don’t think you can go from that to our current situation. If we are ever lucky enough to have another Robbo, I’m sure he’ll get his chance just as Aaron Hickey did. But for most promising youngsters, the only way to get to the level we are now at is likely to involve spells out on loan. 

What a three though. If only. 

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, Footballfirst said:

He got injured again in an U18 game against Rangers IIRC and didn't feature in subsequent games in December.

Yep, Pollock and Logan have struggled with covid and injuries for most of this season until end November. 

[sadj]

3 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Yep, Pollock and Logan have struggled with covid and injuries for most of this season until end November. 

Dont you and FF start talking sense on here , how very dare you make sensible points. Im sticking with my younger age groups will have more chance of progressing. Kids have the easier routes now in some respects but its also harder for them than it was when I was that age to progress to top levels. Bosman , changed rules on international players etc have changed the game and that filters down to youth levels too. Theres a huge big debate on things that have put us where we are. Its not just black and white. Academy good/bad , Robbie no likey yoofs etc

[Aussie Jambo]

51 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Good post. 

👍

[Footballfirst]

37 minutes ago, Hesh said:

I’m sure porty 05 or 6 just punted a number of kids to the rangers and Motherwell, I wonder if edinburgh clubs didn’t have any interest in them? These kids are a free hit for those clubs because there’s next to no cost incurred by them.

Hearts picked up three from Porty. Jamie Anderson, Jay Mill and Cammy Elliot.  None of them have had much games time, either through injury or games being postponed.

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Hearts picked up three from Porty. Jamie Anderson, Jay Mill and Cammy Elliot.  None of them have had much games time, either through injury or games being postponed.

 

Cammy Elliot can not be allowed to dance under any circumstances

[Bazzas right boot]

54 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Levein didn’t spot Hickey, they asked the video analysts to look for youngsters being released from other clubs to see if any are good enough. 
The youth coaches had been telling them for months he was the best LB at the club before he played him. 
All season you’ve lauded Hibs and Aberdeen as being the benchmark we need to beat but now they’re crap and not to be emulated? Saints won two cups with academy graduates in their team. 
Hickey didn’t play another game for us after Covid which is what we were talking about. 
I’ve not mentioned Brentford. 

 

 

CL spotted and gave Hickey his chance. You can't blame him for all the shite and not give him credit for the good stuff - that is rabid behaviour. 

Hibs and Aberdeen to my knowledge have sold no youth players recently of note. 

 

Saints did win 2 cups, but they are shite. Utter shite. 

 

I never said you did, others did. 

 

Edited January 5, 2022 by Smith's right boot

[Pasquale for King]

9 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

CL spotted and gave Hickey his chance. You can't blame him for all the shite and not give him credit for the good stuff - that is rabid behaviour. 

Hibs and Aberdeen to my knowledge have sold no youth players recently of note. 

 

Saints did win 2 cups, but they are shite. Utter shite. 

 

I never said you did, others did. 

 

He was handed a video saying we should sign this guy, that’s not spotting a player. Playing him when your other crap options that you signed are out and you’re forced to doesn’t really deserve much praise. 
Why mention Brentford to me? 
Aberdeen sold McKenna for £5m 18 months ago.

Hibs haven’t produced good youngsters for years, they’re still playing more than we do, which is the point. 

[Hmfc1965]

1 hour ago, Bull's-eye said:

There's unfortunately a very large group of noisy clueless idiots that have an "Old firm" must win at all costs mentality that claim to support Hearts.

 

In reality it's a very selfish blinkered existence but unfortunately it has influence on how we progress as a club.

 

Strong leadership is required and hopefully the tide is turning and the build for a secure club competitive on every level is going in the right direction.

 

Looks good to me tbh.

 

Will it silence the loons.

 

Not a chance

 

Do you think having a "must win at all costs" mentality is a weakness?

 

[Watt-Zeefuik]

1 hour ago, Pasquale for King said:

So you have Doig (ironically enough) and Campbell at Hibs, Ramsey and Maclenzie at Aberdeen, Welch and Montgomery at Celtic, Patterson and Mcrorie, not sure about St Johnstone but Ballyntine is one I think. 
Don’t think we’ve had any. 

 

Not this season but we had Andy Irving last season. Again, not one to set the heather alight but neither has Campbell from what I've seen. Patterson reminds me of Tierney in that he's a big success but stands out as being the exception rather than the rule.

 

And as stated, I think the next six months are a great time to see if Henderson's got his form to the point he can make the big step up.

[Rudy T]

I’d like to know the ratio of youth team player to first team across all the top leagues, I suspect it’s very low. It’s not easy to make it as a professional footballer at any level. 
 

Let’s use Beni as an example, he couldn’t break through at Everton yet he’s tearing our league up, there’s not a single Hearts academy player that could get near his place in the team, and if there was he wouldn’t be in the Hearts academy for long. Look at Hickey we got 5 minutes out of him before he was off. 
 

However, we should have an academy but for me there needs to be targets set, IMO we hold on to players far too long when it’s clear they’re not going to make it. It’s not a boys club it should be a vehicle to produce professional footballers for Hearts not a supply chain to the lower leagues. As harsh as that sounds it might focus the lads more to dedicate themselves to making it. I have no doubt we have good young players in the academy but are they going to step up, that’s where all the focus should be.