Woodburn - home for just after Xmas?

[Section Q]

14 hours ago, queensferryjambo said:

 

 

He was, but the big question has to be asked why such a dip in form?

 

He was terrific against Dundee Utd then his form seems to have fallen off the edge of a cliff.

Inconsistency or can't be bothered......?

[upgotheheads]

10 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

Woodburn has shown rarely that he could be a good player which is a shame. 

 

I would be interested to see what would happen if he tried the Souttar approach - he's come back stronger after bulking up. I wonder if he was put on a strength program if he would benefit in the latter part of the season ? 

 

 

 

Too rarely. Two goals isn't a great return for the number of games he's played, one of them was a goalie's blunder, the other was a cracker to be fair. He doesn't seem to have the physicality or attitude to play at the top level imo, even SPFL top level.

[davie1980]

2 hours ago, Mysterion said:

Woodburn has shown rarely that he could be a good player which is a shame. 

 

I would be interested to see what would happen if he tried the Souttar approach - he's come back stronger after bulking up. I wonder if he was put on a strength program if he would benefit in the latter part of the season ? 

 

 

He lacks sharpness and workrate.  Being  physically bigger won't help him try harder or be more skillful 

[Biffa Bacon]

16 hours ago, HeartsandonlyHearts said:

I’d love you to be right. 
“boss this isn’t for me, do what ever you must”

The first minute break when he passed right to Boyce marked by three while McKay (think) was wide open left was the first sign for me he just didn’t have it today. It got worse from there. 

If it actually made it to Boyce, rather than a tame pass to the nearest Livi player.

[Chuck Berry]

There's something there, 11 caps and 2 goals for Wales at 21 says he has something about him.  At this point though I'm not sure what it is.

 

Keep him, but if letting him go back to Livepool releases funds for an established striker, then do it.

 

 

[Biffa Bacon]

I find it hard to believe he is not performing more consistently, after previously uninspiring loans, this was an opportunity to kick on. There is no danger he will be anywhere near Liverpool team based on his stint at Hearts to date  He will end up at some non descript League 1 or 2 side, if he cannot demonstrate the obvious talent that he has.

[Bozi]

The best thing about his performance on Sunday is that it highlighted just how more effective McAneff is when he was further forward, turning into a very valuable player. 

 

I would rather offload Gnando but Woodburn is starting to slip down the pecking order and it appears to be as much about his attitude now 

[Gimme an H...]

Great sub by Robbie - recognised he wasn't up for the physical challenge yesterday and hooked him before damage was done. Haring didn't deserve to be dropped and came in and showed why he needs to start against Sevco.

 

Had high hopes for Woodburn but he's not at it up here.

 

McEneff looks twice the player.

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

1 hour ago, Biffa Bacon said:

If it actually made it to Boyce, rather than a tame pass to the nearest Livi player.

I should have said “attempted” pass. 
Because you’re right it got nowhere near Boyce.

[Leveins Battalion]

Woodburn suffers from the same Academy Syndrome as many other young guys who have spent too long in an environment where they are pampered and told how great they are since they were 5 years old.

 

Now reality hits and they are up against guys on £500 a week fighting to better themselfs, he has to man up,decide what he wants to do with his career, because if he fails at Hearts League 1 or 2 awaits.

[Ainsley Harriott]

He's had one outstanding game for us and been poor most of the time. Definitely wouldn't keep

[1971fozzy]

I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt. That Livingston pitch is also feking horrendous.  He will come good I’m sure. He’s had a couple of off games but so has everybody else bar Craig Gordon. Some were skating Halkett saying get rid etc and now he’s back on form and folk saying ‘sign him up’.  Let’s give the lad a chance. We have quite a few games between now and the break. I think especially at Tynecastle he will do better. No idea if his confidence is shot but hope not.

[vegas-voss]

I had hoped Utd game was going to see him finally burst into life.Unfortunatley he has gone right back into his shell.

 

I honestly don't see what he does that Jamie Walker can't do better especially coming from the bench.

[chrystaf]

23 hours ago, Agentjambo said:

Have you any proof of this??

The DU game.  As mentioned by previous posters,  he's not always playing in his best position.  That said he does seem to afflicted with the GMS syndrome - too easily brushed off the ball. 

Though not at his best on yesterday, his sub was tactical.

[Kiwidoug]

Let's see how he goes until the end of the year.  If he's not applying himself it certainly won't impress his parent club.

[NB GIN]

Disagree with most here I think he is a good player sometimes takes players a while to settle. I have seen enough to suggest he will come good.

[JamboAl]

1 hour ago, chrystaf said:

The DU game.  As mentioned by previous posters,  he's not always playing in his best position.  That said he does seem to afflicted with the GMS syndrome - too easily brushed off the ball. 

Though not at his best on yesterday, his sub was tactical.

What is his best position?

[Debut 4]

You can always tell a player with hunger and guts.  He may make mistakes, he may not always play well technically but you know he’s always fighting to do something good. He doesn’t shirk anything. 

 

I don’t see that with Woodburn and I’m not sure it’s in his his character to dig deep?  
 

Fast looking a 1 in 4,5 player. Any player can play well once in a while.  

[gashauskis9]

Constantly played out of position away from home.  Keep him and utilise him better.  

[Naisys Tackle]

22 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Who the **** is going to pay £10 million for a guy that looks pish in SPFL? I mean, seriously!🤣

 

Nobody.  He will be released, go to Cardiff, loaned, released play at L1 level as he develops more.   He wouldn't even be good enough for Sunderland at this rate. 

[Naisys Tackle]

3 minutes ago, gashauskis9 said:

Constantly played out of position away from home.  Keep him and utilise him better.  

 

We should loan signings with a specific position in mind for them and help them develop there.  Otherwise it's pointless. 

[daavojaay]

He will have either a championship club as In prob near bottom of championship lined up already. I don't get with him that he's part of the team. I think u can see that from the other players aswell has made himself an outsider maybe with his better than u complex. Every time he plays it's like playing with 10 men. He was ok at start but still not great and has got worse and worse and worse game after game after game. If Robbie continues to play him it just looks like Robbie's being mugged off which I don't see happening. I think that may have been his last start for us and if he doesn't come off the bench and do something very special a couple of games in a row he will be off. I think he will be gone anyway as he prob has a club lined up to go to in January. He is only on 14k a week at Liverpool which he could get more in championship. Which is where he will be soon. Another player found out in the supposedly lower class SPL. Premier League primadonnas 

 

[Yoda]

5 hours ago, Leveins Battalion said:

Woodburn suffers from the same Academy Syndrome as many other young guys who have spent too long in an environment where they are pampered and told how great they are since they were 5 years old.

 

Now reality hits and they are up against guys on £500 a week fighting to better themselfs, he has to man up,decide what he wants to do with his career, because if he fails at Hearts League 1 or 2 awaits.

Spot on.  Might explain his billy big spuds attitude that some have hinted at on this thread.

[daavojaay]

4 minutes ago, daavojaay said:

He will have either a championship club as In prob near bottom of championship lined up already. I don't get with him that he's part of the team. I think u can see that from the other players aswell has made himself an outsider maybe with his better than u complex. Every time he plays it's like playing with 10 men. He was ok at start but still not great and has got worse and worse and worse game after game after game. If Robbie continues to play him it just looks like Robbie's being mugged off which I don't see happening. I think that may have been his last start for us and if he doesn't come off the bench and do something very special a couple of games in a row he will be off. I think he will be gone anyway as he prob has a club lined up to go to in January. He is only on 14k a week at Liverpool which he could get more in championship. Which is where he will be soon. Another player found out in the supposedly lower class SPL. Premier League primadonnas 

 

Sorry I'm wrong he is only on 12k a week. His contract is up 31st may at Liverpool. Not a chance they are gonna keep him. I can't believe he was making their bench before he came here. I think he would excel in somewhere like Italy where the game is slower and he has time on the ball. This league is ripping him a new one and really showing him up. I think his best interest is to get the hell away from it as he clearly can't handle it. Good luck to him but I hope we don't see him in the team again. Mceneff GMS even ginelly are twice the player he is.

 

[Naisys Tackle]

10 minutes ago, daavojaay said:

He will have either a championship club as In prob near bottom of championship lined up already. I don't get with him that he's part of the team. I think u can see that from the other players aswell has made himself an outsider maybe with his better than u complex. Every time he plays it's like playing with 10 men. He was ok at start but still not great and has got worse and worse and worse game after game after game. If Robbie continues to play him it just looks like Robbie's being mugged off which I don't see happening. I think that may have been his last start for us and if he doesn't come off the bench and do something very special a couple of games in a row he will be off. I think he will be gone anyway as he prob has a club lined up to go to in January. He is only on 14k a week at Liverpool which he could get more in championship. Which is where he will be soon. Another player found out in the supposedly lower class SPL. Premier League primadonnas 

 

 

He wasn't a regular for Oxford or Blackpool.  I'm not sure he will get a Championship club unless they're Welsh. 

[daavojaay]

Just now, Robbies Tackle said:

 

He wasn't a regular for Oxford or Blackpool.  I'm not sure he will get a Championship club unless they're Welsh. 

Maybe on hype alone he might down the bottom end. He will know people down south that will probably be his last chance to show something at a half decent level. Then I think he will be in league one maybe 2, maybe see him a Scouser plumber playing in the Highland league or conference. That's what his level of commitment is anyway. His effort level.

[Naisys Tackle]

Just now, daavojaay said:

Maybe on hype alone he might down the bottom end. He will know people down south that will probably be his last chance to show something at a half decent level. Then I think he will be in league one maybe 2, maybe see him a Scouser plumber playing in the Highland league or conference. That's what his level of commitment is anyway. His effort level.

 

If it was hype alone he would be playing there now instead of laboring his ass in Livi on a cold December Sunday, surely?

[daavojaay]

Just now, Robbies Tackle said:

 

If it was hype alone he would be playing there now instead of laboring his ass in Livi on a cold December Sunday, surely?

I think this was his last chance to win contact at Liverpool. Now he knows thats not happening he will have something lined up that'll be getting him more than 12k a week I reckon. He's not part of the team he's a one man band playing with an out of tune guitar, he prob has an uncle down south with a club offering him a chance at a new guitar. I don't even know what I'm spewing but he will have contacts. Klopp had him on the bench before he came here. He probably puts effort in down there at least more than here and will look better with having time on the ball. Problem is he is going to places where people are hungry and looking to improve, where he has bought into his own hype and has seemingly lost that hunger thinking he will get by with the tools he has. Problem is they ain't good enough and our tinpot league has proven that.

 

 

[A.JAMBO]

14 minutes ago, daavojaay said:

Maybe on hype alone he might down the bottom end. He will know people down south that will probably be his last chance to show something at a half decent level. Then I think he will be in league one maybe 2, maybe see him a Scouser plumber playing in the Highland league or conference. That's what his level of commitment is anyway. His effort level.

 

The reason Ben is with us is to develop him, part of that includes knocking the boy out of him. Have to remember he is a luxury type, comes from a level above. Not sure if it makes a difference but the lad is a newbie to Top league football. He hasn't been very good at hacking certain asks of him, time out and a fresh look at what he needs is maybe the next step. 

Hauling him through the coals for being shite at Two very tough venues and failing to please on others bar United  at Tynie.

It is a need to improve report , as he has that ability.

Edited December 6, 2021 by A.JAMBO

[colinmaroon]

He certainly hasn't lived up to his billing.  Flashes of good stuff and his 2nd goal was a stunner but his first was a goalkeeping blunder TBF.

 

Doent seem to be able to get stuck in.

 

However, don't judge anyone on yhat excuse gor a pitch at Livingston. 

 

 

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

I don’t think he’s stood out in many games but I don’t think he has an attitude problem.

I think he’s struggling with the in your face way we play in Scotland. His team mates don’t seem to shy away from him during goal celebrations and he certainly celebrates Hearts goals. I’d love to see him do well because that probably means we’re doing well. Bench him for a couple and see how his attitude is day to day. He’s a kid, away from home during a pandemic. Here’s hoping he turns it and himself around.

[SectionDJambo]

18 hours ago, Bozi said:

The best thing about his performance on Sunday is that it highlighted just how more effective McAneff is when he was further forward, turning into a very valuable player. 

 

I would rather offload Gnando but Woodburn is starting to slip down the pecking order and it appears to be as much about his attitude now 

I agree about McAneff. He was being written off before the Dundee United game but he has shown he can be a valuable player to have in the squad. 

Gives us an attacking option in midfield and can make decent forward passes. 

 

 

[Big Moysey]

Noticed when he was subbed in Motherwell match, he appeared extremely hacked off. Looked very exasperated/frustrated - question is with himself or with Neilson? 

For me he's a talented player and brought a freshness to us in his first few games. That has tapered off and he's currently not hacking it. You can look at the player himself, at the coaches, or both, to find a solution to this. Suppose a lot depends on how Savage sees his future from a Hearts perspective? Personally, think he could be replaced in January. 

[Taffin]

3 goals in 40 odd loan appearances at 'lower' level football isn't exactly the return of some kind of star of the future for a player in his position.

 

Reckon he'll have decent league 1 career in England. For me, very meh and I'd lose no sleep if he returned to his parent club in January.

 

All of that said, he's not awful, he's just not great and has very little experience of first team football. He seems worse to some people as far too many people were blowing smoke up his arse when we signed him and were making out he was some kind of top drawer wonderkid. Personally it seemed like an okay signing who may or may not do a job, these guys are worth it if you can actually sign them permanently like Beni...on loan I see it as a waste of time really.

[cruzabic]

Id love to see this evidence where people believe he's a "good player". Think you're reading what the English papers said about him a few years ago...

 

He's got 6 goals and 8 assists in 71 appearances across copious leagues that's should be below his level. Maybe suits slow english football more, but the sooner we get rid the better as he's keeping Gino out the team which is cynical.

[Silvery_Moon]

Yes he looked lost on Sunday. Looked like a lack of confidence to me but was definitely the type of game for Haring and the switch was made which Robbie deserves credit for.

 

Hopefully he's not done yet as there are certain games where an on form Woodburn can make an impact. 

[Jamhammer]

On 06/12/2021 at 09:23, JamboAl said:

Terms of the loan agreement maybe?

If that’s the case we need to look at them in future.

Poppadum Hands was rumoured to be similar.

If we get someone in on loan and they’re pish then they shouldn’t play.

 

[R1874]

Couple of thoughts:

 

-has he got a pre-contract lined up for next season 

 

-Have Liverpool asked him to return for cover while Salah and Mane are away for Africa Cup of Nations

 

Obviously would be strange but he was involved in pre-season and is match fit. Perhaps back to Liverpool  after derby then off to his new team on jan 31st

[A_A wehatethehibs]

13 hours ago, Robbies Tackle said:

 

He wasn't a regular for Oxford or Blackpool.  I'm not sure he will get a Championship club unless they're Welsh. 

It’s an absolutely laughable made up fiction that a player who has not cut the mustard at Oxford, Blackpool and Hearts (to date) will have a contract lined up at a championship club. So in this thread we see the birth of another KB myth, something we see every day. People just make up random pish they think might be possible. Woodburn lined up to the championship 😂 not a prayer. As for the welsh clubs, he wouldn’t get in a match day squad for Cardiff or Swansea. More likely Wrexham based on his career evidence so far which essentially looks like the Liverpool Harry cochrane to me

 

He would be doing extremely well if Hearts or a League 1 club offer him a full time deal on 3-5k a week. Blackpool certainly wouldn’t take him back. That sort of wage would be big money for us and attitude is key, a good attitude like Beni has got he is here to play and perform not for the money. He could have got more money somewhere he wouldn’t be a starter. But prove himself on the park and the bigger long term money and status as a respected pro will follow.

Id be be interested to see a fan poll “would you take woodburn on a 3 year pre contract deal on our top wage bracket?” I think it’d be 75-25 no right now, but for me I’ll give the lad the benefit of a few stinkers and more time to judge him, next thing he must show is he can mentally come back and show his talent again like the DUFC game. To make it as a pro he needs to mentally reset himself to the same consistent level every single week and so far he’s not done that here. 

[Skacelsid]

It was a justifiable gamble which is not looking good, more for the lad than Hearts. I do not think it is arrogance, he is probably more frustrated than anyone. The Scottish game is fast and furious and he looks like he wants time, he is not the first to struggle with it.  No need to give a young player a hard time, it is just not working out. Maybe a spell on the bench while he is here, each game settles down after about an hour, coming on and getting some confidence back. On the positives McKay and McEneff are looking good for the remainder and changes our style to a more dynamic one. McEneff reminded me of Gary Mackay driving forward with the ball on Sunday, very pleased for the lad. Bring on Rangers.

[Naisys Tackle]

9 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

It’s an absolutely laughable made up fiction that a player who has not cut the mustard at Oxford, Blackpool and Hearts (to date) will have a contract lined up at a championship club. So in this thread we see the birth of another KB myth, something we see every day. People just make up random pish they think might be possible. Woodburn lined up to the championship 😂 not a prayer. As for the welsh clubs, he wouldn’t get in a match day squad for Cardiff or Swansea. More likely Wrexham based on his career evidence so far which essentially looks like the Liverpool Harry cochrane to me

 

He would be doing extremely well if Hearts or a League 1 club offer him a full time deal on 3-5k a week. Blackpool certainly wouldn’t take him back. That sort of wage would be big money for us and attitude is key, a good attitude like Beni has got he is here to play and perform not for the money. He could have got more money somewhere he wouldn’t be a starter. But prove himself on the park and the bigger long term money and status as a respected pro will follow.

Id be be interested to see a fan poll “would you take woodburn on a 3 year pre contract deal on our top wage bracket?” I think it’d be 75-25 no right now, but for me I’ll give the lad the benefit of a few stinkers and more time to judge him, next thing he must show is he can mentally come back and show his talent again like the DUFC game. To make it as a pro he needs to mentally reset himself to the same consistent level every single week and so far he’s not done that here. 

 

Yeah I completely agree 100%.  I think based on a lot of that he would probably be doing himself a favor leaving in January and shop windowing himself in an environment he's more comfortable in or advised he's going to be at that level when his contract expires in the summer.   It was probably ill advised for him to come here and it's one Joe Savage has got wrong although I can see the reasoning. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

2 minutes ago, Robbies Tackle said:

 

Yeah I completely agree 100%.  I think based on a lot of that he would probably be doing himself a favor leaving in January and shop windowing himself in an environment he's more comfortable in or advised he's going to be at that level when his contract expires in the summer.   It was probably ill advised for him to come here and it's one Joe Savage has got wrong although I can see the reasoning. 

Part of me thinks his loan here, was partly aimed at trying to attract his former youth manager Steven Gerrards attention at Rangers with a view to getting signed there on a free next season, try to follow Ryan Kent to the bigger money. He will probably delusionally believe himself to be as good if not better than Kent who had 0 Liverpool appearances to woodburns 6 as the younger player. But now Stevie G is gone the ba’ is burst on that one. 
 

What I will say is, it’s too early to tell if it’s one weve “got wrong” I do favour persisting with him for the full season and seeing if time & coaching will get him settled and ready to make a real go of his career. He’s the sort of player I could just see blowing hot and cold but could deliver a worldy in a derby or at Hampden or suchlike. 

[mbhmfc]

His performance at Ibrox was woeful, he has offered next to nothing since the Dundee Utd game back in August. 

 

Shame really because I thought he was going to be an excellent signing. Get shot of him and Nando, free up some space for another player or 2 to come in. 

[Naisys Tackle]

1 minute ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Part of me thinks his loan here, was partly aimed at trying to attract his former youth manager Steven Gerrards attention at Rangers with a view to getting signed there on a free next season, try to follow Ryan Kent to the bigger money. He will probably delusionally believe himself to be as good if not better than Kent who had 0 Liverpool appearances to woodburns 6 as the younger player. But now Stevie G is gone the ba’ is burst on that one. 
 

What I will say is, it’s too early to tell if it’s one weve “got wrong” I do favour persisting with him for the full season and seeing if time & coaching will get him settled and ready to make a real go of his career. He’s the sort of player I could just see blowing hot and cold but could deliver a worldy in a derby or at Hampden or suchlike. 

 

Mental mate - I had that feeling too  

 

If it was a two year deal I would agree also, there's very little time left on his loan but yeah, like you said he's the kind of player of scores a Barrie McKay v Celtic for the huns in the Semis of the Scottish out of nowhere.  He reminds me a lot of Temps tbh. 

[SUTOL]

4 hours ago, mbhmfc said:

His performance at Ibrox was woeful, he has offered next to nothing since the Dundee Utd game back in August. 

 

Shame really because I thought he was going to be an excellent signing. Get shot of him and Nando, free up some space for another player or 2 to come in. 

 

 

Time flies, eh. 

 

Could have sworn he scored a double against Dundee Utd just a few weeks ago. 

[escobri]

Played on Sunday like he was hungover.

[HeartsandonlyHearts]

8 minutes ago, escobri said:

Played on Sunday like he was hungover.

Funny you should write that.

Did we ever determine what happened to him the morning of the memorial service?

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

🤔

[The Apprentice]

He’s been hooked early in a few games now because he’s been totally ineffective. The bigger question for me is why did he start at the weekend when he produced next to nothing at Parkhead to merit it? 
 

There’s lots of rumours regarding the terms of his loan, how much we are contributing to his wages/game time agreement etc, and I must admit there’s been a couple of times I’ve wondered if we do need to play him when he’s fit because we’ve been persisting with him when there’s other options available.

 

Robbie and the coaching staff will know best as they work with him

every day but at this rate if there was a chance to send him back and use the money elsewhere or for a replacement I’d take it.

[DH1986]

Played on Sunday like he just didn’t fancy it.