Jump to content

Ghislane Maxwell case


Longbaws
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 258
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Cade

    16

  • Jambo-Jimbo

    29

  • JFK-1

    16

  • Longbaws

    16

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

I P Knightley
7 hours ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Absolute bollocks. Mixed with people from all classes and there were just as many self entitled wankers amongst working/middle class folk as so called upper class ones 

Also took kids from all types of school for training at hockey. Kids from Merchiston Castle and Loretto mixed in with kids from local Edinburgh schools. 

The privately educated ones were no different to public school kids. Treat them the same and they respond the same.

There a website (name escapes me) where, mainly girls write up accounts of harassment and/or assault they've experienced from schoolboys. Most of them name the schools the boys go to. Fee- paying schools are hugely disproportionately over-represented in the comments compared to state schools. 

 

I'm sure that's not a statistically robust observation but it certainly suggests that those schools breed that extra sense of entitlement and nastiness. 

 

When I looked at the site, it seemed to be predominantly London and the South East where the gulf between state schools and private is greater than in Edinburgh. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

There a website (name escapes me) where, mainly girls write up accounts of harassment and/or assault they've experienced from schoolboys. Most of them name the schools the boys go to. Fee- paying schools are hugely disproportionately over-represented in the comments compared to state schools. 

 

I'm sure that's not a statistically robust observation but it certainly suggests that those schools breed that extra sense of entitlement and nastiness. 

 

When I looked at the site, it seemed to be predominantly London and the South East where the gulf between state schools and private is greater than in Edinburgh. 

 

I think I know the website you mean, started by Soma Sara, after Sarah Everards's murder.

 

Not sure it's an accurate baromoter of public school v private, abuse culture tho' . I think she's now removed the school naming/shaming , as she felt some independant schools were taking a disproportionate hit !

 

Find it hard to believe some schools breed a sense of entitlement towards sexual assault ; and if it were a true geographial reflection, with private schools being worse, Edinburgh schools should be top of the list. 25% of Edinburgh pupils attend private schools - much higher than anywhere else in the UK.

The assualt cases I'm aware over recent yrs - I can easier associate with "lad " culture.. and this isn't necessariliy linked to one type of education system.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

There a website (name escapes me) where, mainly girls write up accounts of harassment and/or assault they've experienced from schoolboys. Most of them name the schools the boys go to. Fee- paying schools are hugely disproportionately over-represented in the comments compared to state schools. 

 

I'm sure that's not a statistically robust observation but it certainly suggests that those schools breed that extra sense of entitlement and nastiness. 

 

When I looked at the site, it seemed to be predominantly London and the South East where the gulf between state schools and private is greater than in Edinburgh. 

You could of course counter that by saying girls from few paying schools are more confident and willing to call out bad behaviour. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A Boy Named Crow

The rapey private schoolboys thing has been a story here (Sydney) for a while. There seems to be something about the way they train the students to believe they are masters of the universe that has the unintended consequence of making them treat women (and homeless people, whole other story...) like utter shit. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I P Knightley
1 hour ago, felix said:

 

I think I know the website you mean, started by Soma Sara, after Sarah Everards's murder.

 

Not sure it's an accurate baromoter of public school v private, abuse culture tho' . I think she's now removed the school naming/shaming , as she felt some independant schools were taking a disproportionate hit !

 

Find it hard to believe some schools breed a sense of entitlement towards sexual assault ; and if it were a true geographial reflection, with private schools being worse, Edinburgh schools should be top of the list. 25% of Edinburgh pupils attend private schools - much higher than anywhere else in the UK.

The assualt cases I'm aware over recent yrs - I can easier associate with "lad " culture.. and this isn't necessariliy linked to one type of education system.

This is why I said the gulf between state and fee-paying is wider outwith Edinburgh. School fees down here are substantially higher than schools like Heriot's, Watson's and Hairy Foreskins, meaning that the families sending the kids to Edinburgh fee-paying schools are not as "elite".

 

The sense of entitlement I refer to is general. Kids are indulged enormously and have that "I see what I want and I'll take it" attitude. It's not necessarily the schools that breed it per se (look at me all talking Latin like a posh 'un :)) but you get gatherings of these indulged and self-entitled people anywhere and they'll droop to the lowest common denominator.

 

"Everyone's Talking" - that's the website name. I'm a school governor and spent time reading through it to see what was going on and whether my school featured. I'm glad I did as it was quite eye-opening about how teenage boys are perceived to behave, particularly in packs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I P Knightley
1 hour ago, Tazio said:

You could of course counter that by saying girls from few paying schools are more confident and willing to call out bad behaviour. 

It could be an element, one of the factors that question the statistical reliability of my observation, but the comments weren't made exclusively by girls at those schools.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

This is why I said the gulf between state and fee-paying is wider outwith Edinburgh. School fees down here are substantially higher than schools like Heriot's, Watson's and Hairy Foreskins, meaning that the families sending the kids to Edinburgh fee-paying schools are not as "elite".

 

The sense of entitlement I refer to is general. Kids are indulged enormously and have that "I see what I want and I'll take it" attitude. It's not necessarily the schools that breed it per se (look at me all talking Latin like a posh 'un :)) but you get gatherings of these indulged and self-entitled people anywhere and they'll droop to the lowest common denominator.

 

"Everyone's Talking" - that's the website name. I'm a school governor and spent time reading through it to see what was going on and whether my school featured. I'm glad I did as it was quite eye-opening about how teenage boys are perceived to behave, particularly in packs.

 

I see what you mean now about the gulf between state & private being sharper in the south-east, on an elitist scale, Very true.

Also witness the Insta-driven "I see what I want" and I'll have it; bling culture, with my kids, on an almost daily basis.

Not sure the school class system makes sexual abuse culture more prevalent though.  Maybe in the rugby lads 😔 .

 

Out of interest IP - you governor to one of them fancy posh schools ? :bucktooth:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, AndyNic said:

 

Who and which companies? 

 

Cheers

Twitter, Barclays, Walmart, CNBC and the editor of the Daily Mail (or something along those lines)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Longbaws said:

Twitter, Barclays, Walmart, CNBC and the editor of the Daily Mail (or something along those lines)

 

It's partly fake news mate.

Walmart CEO Doug McMillion isn't resigning, the CFO Brett Biggs is, but not until January 2023.

CNBC do not have a CEO, they have a chairman Mark Hoffman and there is no information or indications that he's going anywhere.

 

Seems the stories started on social media, someone adding 2 & 2 together and getting 47.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/11/30/fact-check-ceos-walmart-cnbc-didnt-resign-during-maxwell-trial/8812856002/

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-865073843956

 

The only one thought to have any connections with Epstein was the Barclays chief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

It's partly fake news mate.

Walmart CEO Doug McMillion isn't resigning, the CFO Brett Biggs is, but not until January 2023.

CNBC do not have a CEO, they have a chairman Mark Hoffman and there is no information or indications that he's going anywhere.

 

Seems the stories started on social media, someone adding 2 & 2 together and getting 47.

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/11/30/fact-check-ceos-walmart-cnbc-didnt-resign-during-maxwell-trial/8812856002/

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-865073843956

 

The only one thought to have any connections with Epstein was the Barclays chief.

 

Sorry, should have said 2 or them are actually CFO's👍👍my bad.

 

More importantly, do you know how to make a poll on JKB??

 

PS don't trust ANY fact checking sites👌

Edited by Longbaws
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Longbaws said:

 

Sorry, should have said 2 or them are actually CFO's👍👍my bad.

 

More importantly, do you know how to make a poll on JKB??

 

PS don't trust ANY fact checking sites👌

 

Nope I don't know how to make a poll on JKB.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Nope I don't know how to make a poll on JKB.

 

Thanks for replying JJ👍👍 the rest of the ******* ***** ***** on here have deefy'd me so far

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, felix said:

 

I think I know the website you mean, started by Soma Sara, after Sarah Everards's murder.

 

Not sure it's an accurate baromoter of public school v private, abuse culture tho' . I think she's now removed the school naming/shaming , as she felt some independant schools were taking a disproportionate hit !

 

Find it hard to believe some schools breed a sense of entitlement towards sexual assault ; and if it were a true geographial reflection, with private schools being worse, Edinburgh schools should be top of the list. 25% of Edinburgh pupils attend private schools - much higher than anywhere else in the UK.

The assualt cases I'm aware over recent yrs - I can easier associate with "lad " culture.. and this isn't necessariliy linked to one type of education system.

Lad culture is nothing new - been around since the early 90s. Something far newer is social media.

 

I reckon kids are losing the ability to communicate face to face. Do you reckon they have ever experienced that teenage fear of rejection direct to their face that boys all had to come to terms with prior to 2005? I expect now it is all done via phones. So is the "chatting up" where emojis rule and you can Google your banter/charm or get it from your mate sitting beside you because the girl is on the other side of town...Social media has probably eroded social skills: "Got nudes?" f-ing 'ell what would've happened to you in the 80s if you'd said that direct to a girl's face before asking her name?...Her older brother or father would've slapped seven shades of sht out of you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first of the alleged abused woman gave more evidence today, didn't come over all that great tbh.

The defence allege that she gave different accounts to the FBI than what she just testified in court, her reply was "I don't recall". 

In other words it appears that she can't remember what she told the FBI just two years ago, that's not a good sign.

https://news.sky.com/story/ghislaine-maxwell-trial-accuser-rejects-claim-she-came-up-with-memory-involving-epstein-sexual-abuse-12483977

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I P Knightley
On 01/12/2021 at 14:03, felix said:

Out of interest IP - you governor to one of them fancy posh schools ? :bucktooth:

All I said was per se and you've thrust me into the upper echelons...

 

Good old corpy comprehensive for me. I'm not even sure that them fancy posh schools have boards of governors, do they?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Spellczech said:

Lad culture is nothing new - been around since the early 90s. Something far newer is social media.

 

I reckon kids are losing the ability to communicate face to face. Do you reckon they have ever experienced that teenage fear of rejection direct to their face that boys all had to come to terms with prior to 2005? I expect now it is all done via phones. So is the "chatting up" where emojis rule and you can Google your banter/charm or get it from your mate sitting beside you because the girl is on the other side of town...Social media has probably eroded social skills: "Got nudes?" f-ing 'ell what would've happened to you in the 80s if you'd said that direct to a girl's face before asking her name?...Her older brother or father would've slapped seven shades of sht out of you!

Lots of truisms SPczech. Lack of social interface I can see contributing to the hideous Incel  phenomenom. Lad culture not new , but lad culture+social media+internet porn ; not a brilliant mix.

1 hour ago, I P Knightley said:

All I said was per se and you've thrust me into the upper echelons...

 

Good old corpy comprehensive for me. I'm not even sure that them fancy posh schools have boards of governors, do they?

They've certainlty got a board of governors at Harrow, my alma mater 😉

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I P Knightley
6 hours ago, felix said:

They've certainlty got a board of governors at Harrow, my alma mater 😉

Seriously? It's some place - I drive by it regularly. You must be despised having become a Jambo and all that :D

 

I learnt by other means that posh schools have governing boards when I was looking up directions to a school my lads are playing rugby against on Saturday morning. Noticed a tab on their website saying "governing body" and saw that they are just like us. Except that every governor has all his or her letters after their name. And they've got 100 acres of sports grounds. If they don't allow me to take my dog there on Saturday morning (as some schools don't), I'll shite in their swimming pool.

 

Edit: seriously, the place looks like Downton Abbey.

Edited by I P Knightley
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Byyy The Light
On 01/12/2021 at 19:32, Spellczech said:

Lad culture is nothing new - been around since the early 90s. Something far newer is social media.

 

I reckon kids are losing the ability to communicate face to face. Do you reckon they have ever experienced that teenage fear of rejection direct to their face that boys all had to come to terms with prior to 2005? I expect now it is all done via phones. So is the "chatting up" where emojis rule and you can Google your banter/charm or get it from your mate sitting beside you because the girl is on the other side of town...Social media has probably eroded social skills: "Got nudes?" f-ing 'ell what would've happened to you in the 80s if you'd said that direct to a girl's face before asking her name?...Her older brother or father would've slapped seven shades of sht out of you!


Great post.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

Seriously? It's some place - I drive by it regularly. You must be despised having become a Jambo and all that :D

 

I learnt by other means that posh schools have governing boards when I was looking up directions to a school my lads are playing rugby against on Saturday morning. Noticed a tab on their website saying "governing body" and saw that they are just like us. Except that every governor has all his or her letters after their name. And they've got 100 acres of sports grounds. If they don't allow me to take my dog there on Saturday morning (as some schools don't), I'll shite in their swimming pool.

 

Edit: seriously, the place looks like Downton Abbey.

 

 

Did I say I went to Harrow ? I meant to type Portobello. Damn spellcheck 😄

Good luck vs Chigwell 👍

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

Seriously? It's some place - I drive by it regularly. You must be despised having become a Jambo and all that :D

 

I learnt by other means that posh schools have governing boards when I was looking up directions to a school my lads are playing rugby against on Saturday morning. Noticed a tab on their website saying "governing body" and saw that they are just like us. Except that every governor has all his or her letters after their name. And they've got 100 acres of sports grounds. If they don't allow me to take my dog there on Saturday morning (as some schools don't), I'll shite in their swimming pool.

 

Edit: seriously, the place looks like Downton Abbey.

There is a school near us that my son plays basketball at which apparently has its own 9 hole golf course! It is £45K a year not including the boarding costs! When we drop the boy off their pupils are often on the 4G playing football. For some reason I always expect every one of them to be terrible but some of them look like decent players.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
1 hour ago, Cade said:

Maxwell refuses to testify.

Defence team can't track down their star defence witness either.

 

Heid in the sand, hope it blows over.

 

She's not refusing to testify, she's "too fragile" to testify whatever that's supposed to mean. She can make it into court, but can't even speak?

Apparently due to the same "inhumane conditions" everybody else in the prison is enduring but who can still all talk when they go to court.

Amazing how a few charges can physically debilitate the wealthy. Reminds of me of Weinstein who during his court procedure was suddenly so fragile he couldn't even walk without a walking frame. 

2l78bn7j92441.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She said "In my opinion the prosecution case has not shown my guilt beyond reasonable doubt, so there is no need for me to testify in my defence"

 

Arrogant bitch.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A Boy Named Crow
3 minutes ago, Cade said:

She said "In my opinion the prosecution case has not shown my guilt beyond reasonable doubt, so there is no need for me to testify in my defence"

 

Arrogant bitch.

 

 

I was wondering about that.  I'm not exactly an expert on what goes on in US courts,  but that sounds like the standard phrase I'd expect somebody to use if they weren't going to testify in their own defence. 

 

She could hardly say "I'm not going to testify because the web of lies I have spun might come undone under the slightest cross examination", could she?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In my opinion the defence has produced absolutely nothing to prove her innocent. Declaring that every one of the witnesses has "false memory syndrome" is pretty ludicrous.

I could declare that in almost any trial, couldn't I? Would it be accepted as sufficient to clear anybody when there's multiple witnesses telling pretty much the same story?

And from a personal viewpoint no way am I going to tell a jury i'm so obviously innocent I don't need to testify for you, with nothing but these scatter gun claims of false memory syndrome to support it.

If I were innocent you wouldn't be able to shut me up. She's going down then the real business will start. Once she has decades of jail time in front of her I can guarantee she will find her voice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Think will be acquitted. Else would be dead by  now.

 

So you think the judge and the entire jury are all in on a conspiracy to clear her? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A Boy Named Crow
14 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

So you think the judge and the entire jury are all in on a conspiracy to clear her? 

I think the implication was, if it was a stronger case against her, those threatened by a conviction would have dealt with her before it got this far. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

I think the implication was, if it was a stronger case against her, those threatened by a conviction would have dealt with her before it got this far. 

 

There is a strong case against her, and if this were anybody else for example someone not so high profile I doubt anybody would be disputing it's a strong case. They're saying nothing about the evidence. All they're doing is claiming she will walk due to a conspiracy. Which would have to include the jury.

While the best the defence have produced to counter it all is a claim that everybody who accuses her, all of them, just by coincidence, have false memory syndrome. That's about as thin a defence as I have ever seen with such high stakes.

Or maybe not, I just thought of the farcical OJ Simpson trial. Obviously guilty, as she is, but he had a loaded jury that wouldn't have convicted him with video of the murders.

She has nothing like that going for her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A Boy Named Crow
14 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

There is a strong case against her, and if this were anybody else for example someone not so high profile I doubt anybody would be disputing it's a strong case. They're saying nothing about the evidence. All they're doing is claiming she will walk due to a conspiracy. Which would have to include the jury.

While the best the defence have produced to counter it all is a claim that everybody who accuses her, all of them, just by coincidence, have false memory syndrome. That's about as thin a defence as I have ever seen with such high stakes.

Or maybe not, I just thought of the farcical OJ Simpson trial. Obviously guilty, as she is, but he had a loaded jury that wouldn't have convicted him with video of the murders.

She has nothing like that going for her.

For enough.  Reasonable doubt can be a ******* if the defence know what they're doing though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

For enough.  Reasonable doubt can be a ******* if the defence know what they're doing though. 

 

I said earlier in the thread that she is a very smart woman indeed, and that if anybody could wriggle out of this I would bet on her. I simply see no way out of this for anybody. Unless the jury pulls an OJ Simpson like stunt and lets her go despite the evidence being strongly against her.

But how likely is that? Simpson had a jury containing just one white and this jury were hand picked as such by the defence to do what they did. It was a race thing which was maddening to me at the time when he walked away clearly guilty. Now almost 3 decades down the line with reflection I can see that on some level the black community perhaps needed to turn the tables so to speak. Just once deliver the type of result they had seen white juries return on whites who had murdered blacks countless times. Show them what it feels like. And looks like.

I have only scanned reports on her trial but have seen nothing from the defence to negate the overall accusation that she was enabling and feeding an abuser. I feel her petulance about not testifying is perhaps resignation rather than arrogance. She's smart, she has to know this isn't looking good for her.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

In my opinion the defence has produced absolutely nothing to prove her innocent. Declaring that every one of the witnesses has "false memory syndrome" is pretty ludicrous.

I could declare that in almost any trial, couldn't I? Would it be accepted as sufficient to clear anybody when there's multiple witnesses telling pretty much the same story?

And from a personal viewpoint no way am I going to tell a jury i'm so obviously innocent I don't need to testify for you, with nothing but these scatter gun claims of false memory syndrome to support it.

If I were innocent you wouldn't be able to shut me up. She's going down then the real business will start. Once she has decades of jail time in front of her I can guarantee she will find her voice.

a point here, yes i have not followed the case so i dont know what evidence has been presented but it is not the defences job to prove innocence, it is the job of the prosecution to prove guilt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

a point here, yes i have not followed the case so i dont know what evidence has been presented but it is not the defences job to prove innocence, it is the job of the prosecution to prove guilt

 

Is it not innocent until proven guilty (even in America), therefore the defence can sit back and and say nothing, it's up to the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt, guilt.

 

It's a risky strategy the defence is playing, but you'd think they would be experienced enough to gauge the reaction of the jury to the evidence which has been put before them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Is it not innocent until proven guilty (even in America), therefore the defence can sit back and and say nothing, it's up to the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt, guilt.

 

It's a risky strategy the defence is playing, but you'd think they would be experienced enough to gauge the reaction of the jury to the evidence which has been put before them.

that was the point i was trying to (but poorly)  make.it is why i believe the defence do what they can to refute and provide believable altenatives for any evidence presented rather than say find the real murderer if the charge was murder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

that was the point i was trying to (but poorly)  make.it is why i believe the defence do what they can to refute and provide believable altenatives for any evidence presented rather than say find the real murderer if the charge was murder

 

It's a risky strategy they are playing, effectively saying we don't need to defend as you haven't proved jack shit, that's the way it's looking to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

She clearly loved Epstein and he maybe loved her for a while but then realised that he loved that she loved him and that he loved them younger...I think she enabled him, out of love and a lifestyle he offered, and the sheer arrogance of her privileged upbringing blinds her to the immorality of what she's done. She sold these girls the same lifestyle treats that he offered her and she probably thought they enjoyed his attentions as much as she did. She probably had to also offer additional entreaties such as sponsorship of their future aspirations...A small extra enticement in her opinion but quit significant from all of ours, as this was the entrapment... The only question is whether what she did was also illegal. I would hope yes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, indianajones said:

 

Surprised shes not caught c19 or been found dead in her holding cell tbh. 

 

They wake her up every 10/15 minutes to check.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
12 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Seems the judge is getting twitchy about covid and the danger of a mistrial...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/28/ghislaine-maxwell-jury-deliberations-resume-sex-trafficking-trial

 

It's also been reported that the jurors have requested various pieces of info, witness transcrips and the likes.

A few 'experts' think this could mean that the jury is split.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

It's also been reported that the jurors have requested various pieces of info, witness transcrips and the likes.

A few 'experts' think this could mean that the jury is split.

Quite possibly but I suspect that in a case as high profile as this, they want it to look like they did their best rather than just say, Guilty, let's all go home (not you Ghislaine).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share




×
×
  • Create New...