TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

[Hungry hippo]

2 hours ago, OTT said:

We have well in excess of 20,000 fans. I would like to think that its possible for us to swamp them with complaints alongside the club to make this impossible to achieve?

 

I was also under the impression the land had went up for sale?

 

I don't have any objections other than it's a bit boring that it might be more student flats.

[HEARTS FOREVER]

14 hours ago, jr ewing said:

Great investment if we could get involved in some way. 

I would like to see us acquire this land and look for the best way to use it to make money for the better of the club.

Edited February 25, 2021 by HEARTS FOREVER

[David McCaig]

5 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Given the supports at the ends of both stands I doubt it would be practical or cost effective. Looks like it may well be a theoretical issue soon anyway. 

The supports are only for the roof.  So not an insurmountable hurdle.

[David McCaig]

6 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Given the supports at the ends of both stands I doubt it would be practical or cost effective. Looks like it may well be a theoretical issue soon anyway. 

As Edinburgh expands a landlocked sub 20k Tynecastle will sooner or later become too small for our needs.

 

The building of student flats may well slip under the radar, but ultimately prove to be one of the most significant events in our longer term history.

[davemclaren]

Just now, David McCaig said:

As Edinburgh expands a landlocked sub 20k Tynecastle will sooner or later become too small for our needs.

 

The building of student flats may well slip under the radar, but ultimately prove to be one of the most significant events in our longer term history.

Given the planning constraints we had with the main stand I reckon any future non trivial expansion will  require a new site. 

[Nelly Terraces]

16 hours ago, heartsfc_fan said:

More student accommodation. Just what Edinburgh needs.

Yeah, it's not as if there's a huge housing shortage in the UK, and i this city in particular, shoving prices of available property through the roof! Absolutely disgraceful state of affairs.

[Ainsley Harriott]

16 hours ago, deejtee said:

instant new fans?

My first thought a good opportunity to recruit some foreign students and make them jambos 

[Voice of reason]

Don’t see the need for the land for capacity expansion - its just all too difficult and awkward a site. If we ever need a 30,000 seat stadium (or bigger) we would need to move.

 

Building our own version of Oriam on the site might be good though. Would cost a fortune but would give us full ownership and control of our training facilities right beside Tynecastle. That’s a massive investment though with a very long payback period. Don’t think it would ever stack up financially.

[Francis Albert]

32 minutes ago, David McCaig said:

Both the Wheatfield and Main Stand are pretty short, so not unreasonable or impossible to lengthen both one or even two sectionss.

 

Obviously this would require knocking down the Roseburn and building a vastly expanded Kop type structure in its place.

So we'd still have the narrowest pitch in the country and at risk of not being able to play later stage European games or internationals at Tynecastle. And a massive Kop end with presumably a much higher roofline would mean not just moving the existing roof supports on the Wheatfield and Main stands but raising them or having separate roof  structure and lighting on the Roseburn.

 

Much as I love Tynie the long term future  of the club cannot be driven entirely by staying there.

 

In any event spending money now speculatively just to secure  an option for an uncertain and unknown future doesn't seem the best use of whatever funds we have at the moment.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Francis Albert

[Chaps]

Wasn’t there talk that Hearts where looking at the site of possibly building our own training facilities?

[David McCaig]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

So we'd still have the narrowest pitch in the country and at risk of not being able to play later stage European games or internationals at Tynecastle. And a massive Kop end with presumably a much higher roofline would mean not just moving the existing roof supports on the Wheatfield and Main stands but raising them or having separate roof  structure and lighting on the Roseburn.

 

Much as I love Tynie the long term future  of the club cannot be driven entirely by staying there.

 

In any event spending money now speculatively just to secure  an option for an uncertain and unknown future doesn't seem the best use of whatever funds we have at the moment.

If the stands are lengthened, then we would no longer have the corner flag squashed next to the roof support and gives the option of potentially removing one or two rows of seats to widen the pitch.  

 

The Main Stand is 7 rows higher than the Wheatfield and 11 rows higher than the existing Roseburn with no discernible change of roofline.  The club may well want to explore any Kop End accomodating safe standing and therefore having a lower rake than the other stands.

 

Of course this is all hypothetical and pie in the sky unless I win the Euromillions... however the moment that housing is built on the site of the old school, the ground is forever landlocked and Tynecastle condemned to always be a sub 20k ground.

[DH1986]

We can’t even decide what to do with one empty floor of the main stand......what the hell we going to do with a whole derelict site that the school is currently on ?
 

Our own training facilities would be great but I suspect the area isn’t big enough.

 

 

[OTT]

2 hours ago, David McCaig said:

As Edinburgh expands a landlocked sub 20k Tynecastle will sooner or later become too small for our needs.

 

The building of student flats may well slip under the radar, but ultimately prove to be one of the most significant events in our longer term history.

 

My view is that the club has an obligation to its future self to aggressively defend its immediate area, because the last thing we need is to want to expand is 5-10 years time and be hobbled because of more ****ing student accommodation. The distillery may also one day move too which would really give us options with the Roseburn/Wheatfield - a housing developer would give both their baws for the land the distillery sits on. 

 

If the funds can be found to match whatever the developer is bidding, it might be worth it. If the club has a good relationship with the distillery its a move worth making IMO. I'd be quite happy to see us sell a couple of players to fund it if need be or use the FOH money, or do some sort of loan with the FOH paying back over a period. Ultimately, its the clubs future and it will render the circa £20m invested a bit of a waste if we can't develop or grow any further. 

 

IIRC it was up for sale for around half a million? 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, OTT said:

 

My view is that the club has an obligation to its future self to aggressively defend its immediate area, because the last thing we need is to want to expand is 5-10 years time and be hobbled because of more ****ing student accommodation. The distillery may also one day move too which would really give us options with the Roseburn/Wheatfield - a housing developer would give both their baws for the land the distillery sits on. 

 

If the funds can be found to match whatever the developer is bidding, it might be worth it. If the club has a good relationship with the distillery its a move worth making IMO. I'd be quite happy to see us sell a couple of players to fund it if need be or use the FOH money, or do some sort of loan with the FOH paying back over a period. Ultimately, its the clubs future and it will render the circa £20m invested a bit of a waste if we can't develop or grow any further. 

 

IIRC it was up for sale for around half a million? 

Might have been feasible if a pandemic hadn’t got in the way. 

[OTT]

7 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Might have been feasible if a pandemic hadn’t got in the way. 

 

Yeah, the pandemic will have put real stress on the clubs finances, I just hope that if the figure is sub £1m, the club might be able to sort some kind of agreement. Perhaps with a wealthy benefactor who can then be repaid via FOH once we're through this difficult period. 

 

I would hate for our long term future in Gorgie to be put at risk for what is relatively speaking not an unaffordable amount of money for the club. To spend £20m on the mainstand and then lose any possibility of Roseburn expansion because of being unwilling to pay around £500k-£1m would feel very short sighted. 

[jambonian]

Parking is the biggest problem in Edinburgh, especially on match days. Can't see why they don't build some sort of multi-storey parking facility with a connection out onto Western Approach Road. Also handy if rugby is on at Murrayfield and it can be used by commuters during the week to stop so many cars heading into the city centre. Tram/bus connection right into the centre of town. Said the same years ago when they built houses along Russell Road. Should have had a large parking area to stop everyone taking cars into town. 

[mitch41]

1 hour ago, jambonian said:

Parking is the biggest problem in Edinburgh, especially on match days. Can't see why they don't build some sort of multi-storey parking facility with a connection out onto Western Approach Road. Also handy if rugby is on at Murrayfield and it can be used by commuters during the week to stop so many cars heading into the city centre. Tram/bus connection right into the centre of town. Said the same years ago when they built houses along Russell Road. Should have had a large parking area to stop everyone taking cars into town. 

I always thought my old school would of been easily converted into a hotel.

[jb66]

 

7 hours ago, OTT said:

We have well in excess of 20,000 fans. I would like to think that its possible for us to swamp them with complaints alongside the club to make this impossible to achieve?

 

I was also under the impression the land had went up for sale?

 

Can FOH buy the land? 

[jb66]

Just now, jb66 said:

 

 

Can FOH buy the land, use it for student accommodation and profits go back into HMFC for time being? 

 

[Pans Jambo]

I am not suggesting for one minute that anyone should sneak in there and burn the place to the ground.

 

That would no do at all.

 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

I am not suggesting for one minute that anyone should sneak in there and burn the place to the ground.

 

That would no do at all.

 

That would make it easier to turn into housing as the listed building issue goes. 

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, davemclaren said:

That would make it easier to turn into housing as the listed building issue goes. 

Or to snap up as a bargain by a certain foundation...

[davemclaren]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Or to snap up as a bargain by a certain foundation...

Distillery will get a higher price for the land when site clearance is paid by insurers. 🥴

[OTT]

20 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Or to snap up as a bargain by a certain foundation...

 

Why not wait for the acquisition by the FOH to occur prior to this tragic accident?  

[Byyy The Light]

5 hours ago, Nelly Terraces said:

Yeah, it's not as if there's a huge housing shortage in the UK, and i this city in particular, shoving prices of available property through the roof! Absolutely disgraceful state of affairs.

Could not agree more. And get Air BnB and festival lets to **** as well. Build these kind of things out near the airport so they have to get the tram in to town and we can have some good housing and build some communities for the people who live here.

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, davemclaren said:

Distillery will get a higher price for the land when site clearance is paid by insurers. 🥴

Damnit!!!

[Fort Vallance]

Tynecastle Arms to be turned in to a trendy student haunt. Please no. 

[trotter]

8 hours ago, SUTOL said:

 

 

 

Also it's 200 inside v 20,000 outside. 

 

Similar reasoning for the school. 

Yup, it's a risk thing. You need to run the numbers to come up with the answer. 

 

There are lots of interlinked factors, but two of the important things is the number of people next to a potential hazard, and the time that they find themselves there. 

 

For the stadium (assuming 30 home games a season and fans spend 2 hours in the vicinity of the ground), the risk factor taking into account only the two items above is 20,000 x 30 x 2.5 = 1,200,000.

 

Doing that same calculation for the school (assuming 8 hours per day, 5 days a week, 39 weeks per year) gives you 8 x 5 x 39 = 1,560. Quite a difference. 

 

I do process hazard/consequence analysis and modelling as part of my job and I need to stress that the above is nowhere near the full story. There are dozens of factors that need to be accounted for (is it a fire/explosion/toxic release, what protection people in different parts of different structures have, which way the wind is blowing, what the affected buildings are constructed from, evacuation routes and times, etc.) I'm just using it as an example to show that although Project A appears riskier than Project B, that's not always the case. 

 

 

 

 

[trotter]

Sorry, forgot about the people in the school (guess i'm not very good at my job...)

 

200 x 8 x 5 x 39 = 312,000. Still a significant difference. 

[EIEIO]

1 hour ago, trotter said:

Sorry, forgot about the people in the school (guess i'm not very good at my job...)

 

200 x 8 x 5 x 39 = 312,000. Still a significant difference. 

Only 200 pupils at Tynecastle High? Also what about the Nursery school. Still be fewer than Tynecastle Park.

[trotter]

25 minutes ago, EIEIO said:

Only 200 pupils at Tynecastle High? Also what about the Nursery school. Still be fewer than Tynecastle Park.

When I looked at this years ago, I heard that number somewhere. I have no idea if it was true or not but just went with it for the example. 

 

If you consider that 200 students will be in the building at any given time if it's built, then you get 200 x 8760 (hours per year) = 1,752,000. Making it 'riskier' than Tynecastle. 

 

One of the fun things about risk analysis is that you can manipulate the numbers to get whatever answer you happen to be looking for. That's why it's important to properly define and document/reference all your input data before you start...

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by trotter

[trotter]

DP

Edited February 25, 2021 by trotter

[Hungry hippo]

2 hours ago, EIEIO said:

Only 200 pupils at Tynecastle High? Also what about the Nursery school. Still be fewer than Tynecastle Park.

 

630 pupils enrolled at Tynie.

[Marvin]

On 24/02/2021 at 19:40, heartsfc_fan said:

More student accommodation. Just what Edinburgh needs.

 

Bath is the same. Hundreds homeless yet the council is more concerned about tourism and student accommodation. 

[Section Q]

On 24/02/2021 at 19:39, jamboinglasgow said:

https://gorgiedalrycc.org.uk/2021/02/24/planning-update-proposal-of-application-notice-for-former-tynecastle-high-school-mcleod-street/

 

The owners of the property are submitting a planning application to turn it into student accomdation. This would have implications of future development of Tynecastle.

At least it might inject some life into a dying suburb....!

 

[The Gorgie]

We've just spend 20 odd million (and climbing) on one fecking stand! We are not relocating anywhere, anytime soon, if ever.

[the general]

Quite happy for student flats going up there. Anything like that is good for the area. Might even mean Robbos reopens

[davemclaren]

7 minutes ago, the general said:

Quite happy for student flats going up there. Anything like that is good for the area. Might even mean Robbos reopens

Robbos as a student pub. 🥴

[the general]

9 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Robbos as a student pub. 🥴

 

Ha I know .. but Luckies was starting to get a bit of a turn from the students in the flats opposite the old Telephone House 

[heartsfc_fan]

19 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Robbos as a student pub. 🥴

Just imagine. Cocktails and burgers in brioche buns.

[davemclaren]

12 minutes ago, the general said:

 

Ha I know .. but Luckies was starting to get a bit of a turn from the students in the flats opposite the old Telephone House 

Hopefully they’ll prefer the 1874 bar. 😎

[FarmerTweedy]

On 24/02/2021 at 21:01, **** the SPFL said:

possibly the owners are prepared to pay to have the ethanol tanks problem resolved

As I understand it, there isn't an ethanol tanks problem for flats, where people are generally indoors. The problem is for stands which have thousands of people at a time sitting outdoors 

[JimmyCant]

On 24/02/2021 at 20:18, Fraggle said:

Sounds like they want to keep the facade at some parts then knock the rest down and build modern design flats within the grounds. Surprised this would be allowed to happen with the issues at the distillery!? 

The facade is listed, which is probably why we didn’t already buy it and put it to club use as we couldn’t knock it down 

[jb102]

Tynecastle Arms won't know what's hit it.

 

[bairdy]

5 minutes ago, jb102 said:

Tynecastle Arms won't know what's hit it.

 

I'll stick with 'Stratties'. 😃

[Tokyo Drifter]

On 24/02/2021 at 19:39, jamboinglasgow said:

https://gorgiedalrycc.org.uk/2021/02/24/planning-update-proposal-of-application-notice-for-former-tynecastle-high-school-mcleod-street/

 

The owners of the property are submitting a planning application to turn it into student accomdation. This would have implications of future development of Tynecastle.

Good. Not enough student accommodation in Edinburgh. Can we have some more nail bars next?

[No Idle Talk]

18 minutes ago, Tokyo Drifter said:

Good. Not enough student accommodation in Edinburgh. Can we have some more nail bars next?

 

😄

[EIEIO]

3 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Hopefully they’ll prefer the 1874 bar. 😎

Can picture the scene 6 nations on the TV in the 1874 bar packed with students, proper Hearts men raging.

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, EIEIO said:

Can picture the scene 6 nations on the TV in the 1874 bar packed with students, proper Hearts men raging.

🤣🤣

[jambonian]

Multi-storey car park with Western Approach Road access would make more sense. Just like it would've done on Russell Road before they built all that housing. 

The way things are going with the pandemic, companies will end up not needing a building for everyone to work in. More folk will work from home and offices won't be needed, or at least smaller offices would serve their purpose.  There are loads of buildings in the city centre that aren't being used or won't be needed, turn them into student accommodation. If i was a student i'd rather be i the city centre than stuck beside a football stadium with thousands of fans coming and going every other week. A car park is the way to go for Tynecastle, Murrayfield when the rugger buggers need it and workers during the week to park in instead of going into town.