TYNECASTLE STADIUM UPGRADE POTENTIAL - UEFA category 4 granted ( updated/merged )

[Craig_]

45 minutes ago, Arfur said:

Isn’t the glenmorangie distillery site in Broxburn/Newbridge still vacant. Surely it would benefit NBD to take what would amount to a significant cash sum to move slightly outside the city (on the right side of town) into a site that is most likely already largely set up for their operation. As someone above has said Hearts could buy the site along with a developer and take their share directly behind the wheatfield stand.

Long term that should be in mind but short term working out a cost effective solution for sorting out the corner frames helps us so much. With those taken away some seats/large screens/combination of both can go in the corners and the pitch can be adjusted to be fully UEFA compliant (obviously taking some of the additional new seats away) buts lets be honest our current stadium with a resized pitch, large screens, corners completed even if with similar or only just bumped up capacity (say 23k) would do us for some time.

 

The Glenmorangie (latterly Diageo) site is just a warehousing site and is currently still in use. The office part is the only part which is empty. As someone said above, the sheer cost of building a new Grain distillery there would likely dwarf any revenue which may be achieved by selling the Westfield site.

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Stu_HMFC said:

What Success ? finishing second to Celtic in a league what never had Rangers in it ? Finished second 4 times from 2014 to 2017/18 season. 

Would hardly brag about it and say we have been successful if it was Hearts.

 

The last time they won the league was 1983/84. 

 

The amount of semi finals and finals Aberdeen got into and won 1 a league cup v Inverness ? I wouldn't say that is success ?  The last time they won the Scottish cup was 1989/90  

 

 

You've missed the point completely. 

 

"relative league success" 

They also got to 10+ semi finals. 

 

If we had that consistency we would then be looking at needing a larger stadium, and unlike Aberdeen I think we could grow. 

 

If you think relative success is only winning cups then we've only had 3 successful seasons in about 60.

It would mean also mean that  Doddie was  a failure. 

I'd disagree on that. 

I think we've had more success than that. 

 

 

[Stu_HMFC]

25 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

You've missed the point completely. 

 

"relative league success" 

They also got to 10+ semi finals. 

 

If we had that consistency we would then be looking at needing a larger stadium, and unlike Aberdeen I think we could grow. 

 

If you think relative success is only winning cups then we've only had 3 successful seasons in about 60.

It would mean also mean that  Doddie was  a failure. 

I'd disagree on that. 

I think we've had more success than that. 

 

 

If I was an Aberdeen fans sitting here now thinking we finished second 4 years in a row and got to 10 plus semi finals but won 1 final a league cup v Inverness and never got anywhere in Europe on the back of having finished second , I don't really think that's success. If Hearts finished second this year and got beat in the Scottish cup final and got to the semi of the league cup, I'd expect to push on the following year getting into the groups in Europe, and winning a cup.

 

 

[Bazzas right boot]

1 hour ago, Stu_HMFC said:

If I was an Aberdeen fans sitting here now thinking we finished second 4 years in a row and got to 10 plus semi finals but won 1 final a league cup v Inverness and never got anywhere in Europe on the back of having finished second , I don't really think that's success. If Hearts finished second this year and got beat in the Scottish cup final and got to the semi of the league cup, I'd expect to push on the following year getting into the groups in Europe, and winning a cup.

 

 

 

I did originally say "relative league success" which I think they have enjoyed over the last decade. Compared to us, well it pisses all over us considering we are around  equal in size.

 

Back to my original point, I think we would be in  position to consider redevelopment of Tynecastle if we had that success as we could maybe go further and build, something which they seem unable to do.

 

We need to get to finishing regularly in the top 3/4 tho before considering that tho, we aren't even there yet.

 

 

[Stu_HMFC]

21 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

I did originally say "relative league success" which I think they have enjoyed over the last decade. Compared to us, well it pisses all over us considering we are around  equal in size.

 

Back to my original point, I think we would be in  position to consider redevelopment of Tynecastle if we had that success as we could maybe go further and build, something which they seem unable to do.

 

We need to get to finishing regularly in the top 3/4 tho before considering that tho, we aren't even there yet.

 

 

👍 Fair point mate

 

[jambo-in-furness]

While it’s nice to dream of greater and bigger things,  right now and for the next ten years at least,  Tynecastle is fit for purpose.  As long as we can accommodate our home support things are tickety boo.

 

in ten years if I’m able to get to a game I might re-appraise,  but as I’m 73 years old now, (and although a pledger for life)   I don’t think that’s a bridge I need concern myself about crossing. 

[FarmerTweedy]

On 16/11/2021 at 19:24, Libertarian said:

Obviously the planners opposition to housing development on the green belt has softened somewhat with the amount of house building going up all around Edinburgh 

Indeed!

[Hackney Hearts]

17 hours ago, jambo-in-furness said:

While it’s nice to dream of greater and bigger things,  right now and for the next ten years at least,  Tynecastle is fit for purpose.  As long as we can accommodate our home support things are tickety boo.

 

Agreed. It's just hard to predict whether our upward trajectory in attendances will continue, and if so, how fast.

 

We've just had 18,129 for a league match against Dundee Utd.

 

We've come a long way since 1980/81, when the same fixture drew 5,875 and 3,786. Okay, that was almost the nadir for us on the field, but fast forward 11 years to1991/92  - when we finished a very creditable 2nd - the games against United drew 11,746 and 10,516. 30 years later we've increased that type of crowd by 65%. If we have that percentage rise over the next 30 years (big if), a similar fixture would attract 29,900.

 

The game against Aberdeen which we had to play at Murrayfield four years ago brought in 24,248. (I don't think the nearly 33,000 against Rangers is a worthwhile example because we don't want to go down the route of giving the OF huge ticket allocations again - although the fact that half of the 61,161 crowd at the Celtic league cup semi were Hearts fans is an indicator of the kind of support that's out there).

[davemclaren]

23 minutes ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Agreed. It's just hard to predict whether our upward trajectory in attendances will continue, and if so, how fast.

 

We've just had 18,129 for a league match against Dundee Utd.

 

We've come a long way since 1980/81, when the same fixture drew 5,875 and 3,786. Okay, that was almost the nadir for us on the field, but fast forward 11 years to1991/92  - when we finished a very creditable 2nd - the games against United drew 11,746 and 10,516. 30 years later we've increased that type of crowd by 65%. If we have that percentage rise over the next 30 years (big if), a similar fixture would attract 29,900.

 

The game against Aberdeen which we had to play at Murrayfield four years ago brought in 24,248. (I don't think the nearly 33,000 against Rangers is a worthwhile example because we don't want to go down the route of giving the OF huge ticket allocations again - although the fact that half of the 61,161 crowd at the Celtic league cup semi were Hearts fans is an indicator of the kind of support that's out there).

Our crowds have smoothed out over the last decades with the rise of season tickets, driven by all seated stadiums with ‘limited’ capacity. In the old days we went from under  10,000 one week to 29,000 the next, depending on who we were playing. 

[john thomas]

14 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Our crowds have smoothed out over the last decades with the rise of season tickets, driven by all seated stadiums with ‘limited’ capacity. In the old days we went from under  10,000 one week to 29,000 the next, depending on who we were playing. 

If I remember correctly, I know times have changed , we didn't have massive crowds at every game in the late 50s/early 60s 

 

[davemclaren]

27 minutes ago, john thomas said:

If I remember correctly, I know times have changed , we didn't have massive crowds at every game in the late 50s/early 60s 

 

Yip. 

[Thomaso]

40 minutes ago, john thomas said:

If I remember correctly, I know times have changed , we didn't have massive crowds at every game in the late 50s/early 60s 

 

That is correct. I was surprised how low attendances were for some games even in the late 50’s glory years!

[Libertarian]

2 hours ago, Hackney Hearts said:

 

Agreed. It's just hard to predict whether our upward trajectory in attendances will continue, and if so, how fast.

 

We've just had 18,129 for a league match against Dundee Utd.

 

We've come a long way since 1980/81, when the same fixture drew 5,875 and 3,786. Okay, that was almost the nadir for us on the field, but fast forward 11 years to1991/92  - when we finished a very creditable 2nd - the games against United drew 11,746 and 10,516. 30 years later we've increased that type of crowd by 65%. If we have that percentage rise over the next 30 years (big if), a similar fixture would attract 29,900.

 

The game against Aberdeen which we had to play at Murrayfield four years ago brought in 24,248. (I don't think the nearly 33,000 against Rangers is a worthwhile example because we don't want to go down the route of giving the OF huge ticket allocations again - although the fact that half of the 61,161 crowd at the Celtic league cup semi were Hearts fans is an indicator of the kind of support that's out there).

Looking forward Hearts may be playing in a much more attractive league which would lead to a big increase in attendances. I think that it is inevitable that there will eventually be merger's of leagues within Europe. I just can't see the current model of national leagues existing in 30 years. I may be wrong but Hearts would really benefit from playing in a more attractive league, with a growing population in Edinburgh (Edinburgh is predicted to become Scotland's largest city by 2037, only 15 or 16 years away) I'm absolutely sure that we will require a bigger capacity. 

[Hackney Hearts]

2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Our crowds have smoothed out over the last decades with the rise of season tickets, driven by all seated stadiums with ‘limited’ capacity. In the old days we went from under  10,000 one week to 29,000 the next, depending on who we were playing. 

 

Very true. 

 

But if you look at examples in the period since redevelopment (limited capacity, importance of season tickets etc)........

In 2002/03 and 2003/04 we finished third. The stadium capacity was smaller than it is now (18k ish). The crowds for the United games were:

11,532

9,663

11,395

10,265

 

So in fact, it looks like a 70% increase over the last 17 years. I suspect the "Vlad effect" set the new base.

[tian447]

On 17/11/2021 at 21:43, Longbaws said:

Has anyone thought of just building another 20,000 seats on top on the roof?

 

Loads of potential to expand.

 

"Ah hate playing at Tynecastle the fans are right on top of you"

 

* that would create 8 (eight) corners to be filled🇱🇻🍆

 

Wouldn't even need to do the big stands, just start with the Gorgie and the Roseburn.

 

 

Might need safety nets and oxygen masks for those at the top though  

[Chuck Berry]

I've always considered a 25,000 capacity as ideal for us, I'm not sure we'd come close to outgrowing that.

 

Whether that can happen on the current footprint I have no idea.

[Hackney Hearts]

Just now, tian447 said:

 

Wouldn't even need to do the big stands, just start with the Gorgie and the Roseburn.

 

 

Might need safety nets and oxygen masks for those at the top though  

 

Has a feel of Fir Park or Pittodrie about it, that photo...

[tian447]

26 minutes ago, Libertarian said:

Looking forward Hearts may be playing in a much more attractive league which would lead to a big increase in attendances. I think that it is inevitable that there will eventually be merger's of leagues within Europe. I just can't see the current model of national leagues existing in 30 years. I may be wrong but Hearts would really benefit from playing in a more attractive league, with a growing population in Edinburgh (Edinburgh is predicted to become Scotland's largest city by 2037, only 15 or 16 years away) I'm absolutely sure that we will require a bigger capacity. 

 

With the push to reduce carbon emissions in the future, I really can't see every team in every country jetting out every week to play in a massive cross-continental European competition instead of their national league.  They will never disappear, IMO.  The smaller nations right next to each other might combine, but I just don't see a European league taking place.  It would be completely unfeasible as well.  Would all national leagues disappear, and clubs have to go bust if they're not involved in the European League?  What about the lower leagues?  I just can't see the current model of national leagues not existing in 30 years.

 

A weekend fixture list of Hearts vs KF Tirana, Aberdeen v IFK Mariehamn, and Stenhousemuir v Piast Gliwice would be a complete disaster.  I just don't see Hearts ever playing in a league that isn't the Scottish Premiership with ventures into the Europa League and maybe Champions League.

[Libertarian]

1 minute ago, tian447 said:

 

With the push to reduce carbon emissions in the future, I really can't see every team in every country jetting out every week to play in a massive cross-continental European competition instead of their national league.  They will never disappear, IMO.  The smaller nations right next to each other might combine, but I just don't see a European league taking place.  It would be completely unfeasible as well.  Would all national leagues disappear, and clubs have to go bust if they're not involved in the European League?  What about the lower leagues?  I just can't see the current model of national leagues not existing in 30 years.

 

A weekend fixture list of Hearts vs KF Tirana, Aberdeen v IFK Mariehamn, and Stenhousemuir v Piast Gliwice would be a complete disaster.  I just don't see Hearts ever playing in a league that isn't the Scottish Premiership with ventures into the Europa League and maybe Champions League.

We will have to agree to disagree on that one. I don't think I will be around in 30 years anyway to see who was correct.

 

[Mr Elwood P]

21 minutes ago, tian447 said:

 

Wouldn't even need to do the big stands, just start with the Gorgie and the Roseburn.

 

 

Might need safety nets and oxygen masks for those at the top though  

Old Firm in the bottom tier ...

[tian447]

31 minutes ago, Mr Elwood P said:

Old Firm in the bottom tier ...

 

Old Firm back home in Glasgow, preferably  

[Longbaws]

1 hour ago, tian447 said:

 

Wouldn't even need to do the big stands, just start with the Gorgie and the Roseburn.

 

 

Might need safety nets and oxygen masks for those at the top though  

That looks absolutely beautiful❤🇱🇻  Once we've established ourselves as a regular Champions League team we could even add another level.

 

Fantastic work!!

[Thomaso]

2 hours ago, Libertarian said:

Looking forward Hearts may be playing in a much more attractive league which would lead to a big increase in attendances. I think that it is inevitable that there will eventually be merger's of leagues within Europe. I just can't see the current model of national leagues existing in 30 years. I may be wrong but Hearts would really benefit from playing in a more attractive league, with a growing population in Edinburgh (Edinburgh is predicted to become Scotland's largest city by 2037, only 15 or 16 years away) I'm absolutely sure that we will require a bigger capacity. 

Sorry disagree. If Hearts keep playing the type of attractive football they played against DU they will fill the stadium regardless of the league they play in.

[tian447]

52 minutes ago, Longbaws said:

That looks absolutely beautiful❤🇱🇻  Once we've established ourselves as a regular Champions League team we could even add another level.

 

Fantastic work!!

 

 

"What seat are you in?"

"Section H, Row 84.  Tier 3!"

 

Wouldn't fancy my chances if this happened though:

 

 

 

[Longbaws]

10 minutes ago, tian447 said:

 

 

"What seat are you in?"

"Section H, Row 84.  Tier 3!"

 

Wouldn't fancy my chances if this happened though:

 

 

 

 

Safe standing on tier 2, what is saved in seat costs can be spent on bungee chords for those in tier 3.

 

I hope James Anderson is reading this and texting his pal Elon.

 

2029: "Newly promoted Celtic face a daunting visit to the Tynecastle Tower to play the champions"

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by Longbaws

[Four faces]

On 17/11/2021 at 12:39, Dayman said:

What's the renovation that's currently happening? Seems to be some kind of rails going along the top of the Wheatfield. Lights, Cameras or posters/banners maybe?

That's the tramline expansion.

[adambraejambo]

2 hours ago, tian447 said:

 

Wouldn't even need to do the big stands, just start with the Gorgie and the Roseburn.

 

 

Might need safety nets and oxygen masks for those at the top though  

Wow defo need another rooftop Restaurant on that. Panoramic views of Stirling Castle !

[Longbaws]

5 minutes ago, adambraejambo said:

Wow defo need another rooftop Restaurant on that. Panoramic views of Stirling Castle !

🤣🤣🤣👍👍🇱🇻🇱🇻

[chrisyboy7]

We all want to keep our better players right....well we will need to add another 5k seats somehow.....Even if its only sold out for 6 games a season it will generate an additional 800k for the chance to increase our budget...But when you think about it.....if the crowds rise for the other games this will take this figure much higher...Shame we don't have much space therefor we cant do this...Fingers crossed something may be possible in a few years

 

 

[Mark_Mywords]

5 hours ago, tian447 said:

 

Wouldn't even need to do the big stands, just start with the Gorgie and the Roseburn.

 

 

Might need safety nets and oxygen masks for those at the top though  

 

 

If you doubled the height of the Wheatfield the same way, at least Irvine Jambo can get a seat!

[August Landmesser]

1 hour ago, Mark_Mywords said:

 

 

If you doubled the height of the Wheatfield the same way, at least Irvine Jambo can get a seat!

I thought he sat in the Westfield?

[chrisyboy7]

On 19/11/2021 at 20:58, August Landmesser said:

I thought he sat in the Westfield?

I hope whatever stand it is its still standing this morning lol

[Garvock jambo]

Have been talking to Hearts friends about this conundrum, when I seem to remember my grandad telling me when I first started going to home games (late fifties),that the club bought the ground behind main stand and were going to rebuild new stand closer to McLeod St ,this was seemingly back in the 1930s. Has anyone ever heard of this ? Or has old age been playing tricks 

[Pans Jambo]

28 minutes ago, Garvock jambo said:

Have been talking to Hearts friends about this conundrum, when I seem to remember my grandad telling me when I first started going to home games (late fifties),that the club bought the ground behind main stand and were going to rebuild new stand closer to McLeod St ,this was seemingly back in the 1930s. Has anyone ever heard of this ? Or has old age been playing tricks 

Where the Plaza is? The land that was previously the car park, nursery and that weird building with the upstairs in it?

[Ronald Villiers]

We could maybe fill the corners in aswell. 🤔

[Unknown user]

16 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Where the Plaza is? The land that was previously the car park, nursery and that weird building with the upstairs in it?

Ah you're from East Lothian right enough!

[Thomaso]

1 hour ago, Garvock jambo said:

Have been talking to Hearts friends about this conundrum, when I seem to remember my grandad telling me when I first started going to home games (late fifties),that the club bought the ground behind main stand and were going to rebuild new stand closer to McLeod St ,this was seemingly back in the 1930s. Has anyone ever heard of this ? Or has old age been playing tricks 

You are correct. The plan was seemingly to change the direction of the pitch ie goals at the Wheatfield!McLeod Street end.

[Hesh]

49 minutes ago, Thomaso said:

You are correct. The plan was seemingly to change the direction of the pitch ie goals at the Wheatfield!McLeod Street end.

 Have there been any clubs who have changed the orientation of their ground or have they just moved?

[EIEIO]

5 minutes ago, Hesh said:

 Have there been any clubs who have changed the orientation of their ground or have they just moved?

Think Athletic Bilbao did  possibly Wolverhampton did too?

[chrisyboy7]

All i know is our ground is to small and we wont ever compete to win the league with a maximum of 19k fans...

[OTT]

3 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

All i know is our ground is to small and we wont ever compete to win the league with a maximum of 19k fans...

Agree with this, but we’re between a rock and a hard place. 
 

Hopefully with Savage and his team and the quality people we have at board level the club is going to enter a period of consistency and success that might help force this discussion on a bit. 
 

I think folk make valid points about the difficult in doing anything else with the current site, but that doesn’t mean our aspirations should be walled in and ‘this is as good as it gets’.

[Pans Jambo]

2 hours ago, Smithee said:

Ah you're from East Lothian right enough!

County Racist IMO

[Thomaso]

29 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

All i know is our ground is to small and we wont ever compete to win the league with a maximum of 19k fans...

We are nowhere near the size of our stadium preventing us from winning the league!

The priority is getting team on the park that dominates all other teams outwith the OF and finishes 3rd every season.

Once we achieve that and really want to challenge the OF for the league we can open the debate on moving to a larger stadium.

 

 

[highlandjambo3]

Anyone itk about the escalator supposedly installed in the main stand?  I’m sure I seen it all wrapped up in its packaging back when materials were being shipped into the main stand skeleton but nothing since……still to be installed somewhere at the unused level I assume……or what?

[pablo]

1 minute ago, highlandjambo3 said:

Anyone itk about the escalator supposedly installed in the main stand?  I’m sure I seen it all wrapped up in its packaging back when materials were being shipped into the main stand skeleton but nothing since……still to be installed somewhere at the unused level I assume……or what?

 

I think they're installed. It's just they don't connect to anything that's opened? 

[Vlad Magic]

43 minutes ago, chrisyboy7 said:

All i know is our ground is to small and we wont ever compete to win the league with a maximum of 19k fans...

More chance than with the 8k you get at home.

[cb1874]

Never mind the stadium upgrades...that's pointless while our pitch is too small. We'll always be constrained by that.

[adambraejambo]

13 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

I think they're installed. It's just they don't connect to anything that's opened? 

I'm sure hospitality in main stand you take escalator up from main reception. Not done so myself but I'm positive I seen that on here a while back. 

[Bongo 1874]

Just now, Thomaso said:

We are nowhere near the size of our stadium preventing us from winning the league!

The priority is getting team on the park that dominates all other teams outwith the OF and finishes 3rd every season.

Once we achieve that and really want to challenge the OF for the league we can open the debate on moving to a larger stadium.

 

 

I'll answer it for him having a bigger stadium would help to challenge the old firm, allowing us to bring in more money from match day revenue, it's on the club to attract new and more fans to Tynecastle. 

 

Which we have shown we can do at Murrayfield, Hampden etc. 

 

These plans could be put in place. 

 

 

 

 

[ericb]

There was something on here the other day about work commencing on the second floor, anyone ITK?