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The Fear of Losing


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ToqueJambo
3 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Coming from someone who has been very critical of Robbie in the past, what you see is what you get with Robbie, he isn't going to be all out attack is he defensive minded yes, will he look to keep a clean sheet over scoring more goals yes, this is Robbie Neilson 👍

 

Will the football on the eye be good to watch you decide 👍

 

But so far he can't be criticised too much tbh, would i like him to be more attacking yes, but you won't get that with Robbie, so you will just have put up with it. 

 

Robbie has a sqaud that is more than good enough to finish above either Hibs or Aberdeen, failing that he should go but he won't. 

 

That should be his goal this season finishing above them. 

 

 

 

Can you describe "all out attack" please, because I very much doubt the opposite of that is "defensive". But it seems to be those two extremes for you. The fact is anyone who has watched us this season cannot say we're playing defensively. Remember the teams we played last season? THAT was defensive football.

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davemclaren
1 hour ago, Auldbenches said:

Off course it is, but some options seem to be shouted down as just having a go when it's just fans discussing the club. 

What's you opinion on welcoming a good honest debate on here and others telling posters what theh should he posting?

In your opinion, isn't it better for the this board and what's better for this board?

Come on Dave..? 

A guy openly admitted to trolling because someone else disagreed about the manager.  That can't be right. 

If you think something breaches the rules then there’s a report function that can be used. Not sure what shouted down exactly means but members are allowed to strongly disagree with each other…and often do. 

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Ex member of the SaS

For me the problem is, by changing to a back four after they have worked so well as a back three, means there is confusion as to who is marking who or defending which area.

IF he wants to be more defensive then play an extra mid. Then when we get a chance to attack we have a player extra pushing forward.

Changing a working defense in the last 10 to 15 minutes is very dangerous.

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Tom Hardy’s Dug

What I don’t understand is a lot of fans are saying 4-2-3-1 is the best formation for the team now (and I understand why they say that).

 

But we were largely shite under that formation last season (as nearly everyone would agree) and every time we change to a 4 mid game this season a lot of people lose their shit.

 

 

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The Tackle
4 hours ago, mitch41 said:

It’s one thread and it’s an important issue and has to be debated whether you think it’s boring or not. Calling fans the anti Neilson Brigade or the Happy Clappers is boring and not accurate there are many opinions on Neilson’s management from wanting him to stay, wanting to give him more time, wanting him to sign a more players, wanting him to be less defensive, wanting to be more entertaining or just wanting him replaced because he isn’t up to the job. Giving Kickbackers the chance to debate a manager, that is without doubt the most important job in the club, is crucial. A bad manager can destroy a club, ruin a club and drive players, fans, sponsors etc away in their droves while a manager who can bond and put together a team that is entertaining & winning can make everybody’s job 100 times easier and that should be every employee and Jambos aim.

Your post is fair enough aside from the first line. It's definitely not only 1 thread :rofl:it has been all over the forum for 18 months. 

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Smith's right boot
2 hours ago, davemclaren said:

If you think something breaches the rules then there’s a report function that can be used. Not sure what shouted down exactly means but members are allowed to strongly disagree with each other…and often do. 

 

Naw they dinnae.... 

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3 hours ago, Ex member of the SaS said:

For me the problem is, by changing to a back four after they have worked so well as a back three, means there is confusion as to who is marking who or defending which area.

IF he wants to be more defensive then play an extra mid. Then when we get a chance to attack we have a player extra pushing forward.

Changing a working defense in the last 10 to 15 minutes is very dangerous.

Despite advocating a switch back to 4-2-3-1 this is a fair point. Maybe an attacking midfielder as one of the two centre mids in the 3-4-3 would do the trick.

 

There is just something not quite clicking in an attacking sense. The service from the wing backs might be the problem but there’s no chance Neilson will replace two defensive players at wing back with two attacking player and tbh I don’t think we’ve got any proper wing backs in our squad. 
 

It’s a bit of a conundrum. 
 

edit. apologies.  I didn’t realise you were talking about switching to a back 4 during games. 

Edited by GinRummy
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Bongo 1874
6 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Can you describe "all out attack" please, because I very much doubt the opposite of that is "defensive". But it seems to be those two extremes for you. The fact is anyone who has watched us this season cannot say we're playing defensively. Remember the teams we played last season? THAT was defensive football.

We didn't adopt that system until quite near the end of the season, during last season which was 343.

 

Robbie played a 4231 most weeks or 442.

 

But yeah I'll explain Toque, all out attack is playing a very high line similar how Stendel did with Barnsley and us, or how Celtic now play under Ange and Rangers with Gerrard. 

 

The plan is to have a very high defensive line and press high allowing them to regain possession quickly, either from winning the ball high up the park, or the other team basically hoofing it up the park resulting in them getting the ball back, most teams that play against a high press will be aiming to hit the corners, to relieve some pressure and get them further up the park, or try and play through the high press. 

 

Many premier league teams play this way, Chelsea, Man utd, Liverpool, Leicester, Leeds,Man City, they also try to play a possession based game. 

 

I think it's also very clear we set up with two defensive minded midfielders in our line up, with the formation looking more like a 541, when teams have the ball against us. 

 

My evidence for Robbie being more defensive than attacking, when he brought Mceneff on he played him out on the left hand side, with Jamie Walker and Henderson also coming on. 

 

The reason he brought Mceneff on was to shore up the midfield, a tactic Robbie used against Dundee when Billy King got injured instead of bringing on a sub that was like for like, he put Gomis on that day and we ended up inviting pressure with Dundee eventually finding a breakthrough. 

 

Here is the Match report for the Dundee game in 2016 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34817947&ved=2ahUKEwitmION3oHzAhURT8AKHXYRA1IQFnoECC8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3UdHEP_5gic3c0rRoBXX31 and the one recently with Aberdeen 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58215743&ved=2ahUKEwjPwYzN3oHzAhWnQUEAHVkmB6gQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0z1H-JDRkK74iXeTfWfLB6

 

Both resulting in him putting on central midfield players in a wide position instead going like for like. 

 

This is in no way a criticism, but you really have to understand what Robbie is about, at the end of the day Craig Levein was Robbie's mentor so it's only natural he picks up some of his habits etc he regularly played prince out wide too. 

 

Craig did the same with Djoum and Prince. 

 

But that's really the difference, don't expect games where Robbie will tell the team if you lose a goal, don't worry about it because we will outscore them. 

 

He will set us up to be hard to beat first and foremost, hence why we play with two defensive midfielders in our 343 system. 

 

 

Again this isn't a criticism teams play different styles and coaches / managers have different methods and ideas of how to play / win. 

 

In no way am i saying he sets us up not to win games, rather he's cautious instead of maybe being attacking or positive. 

 

Hope this explains what i was trying to say, as a few want him to be more attacking, but they have to understand he is not really about that. 

 

Anyway enough of that he has us 3rd currently unbeaten, so people can't complain too much. 

 

Even if we don't play great football all the time, he currently has us in a position most would of bitten you're hand off if offered before the start of the season, hopefully get a good result up at County 👍

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Bongo 1874
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Bongo 1874
5 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Can you describe "all out attack" please, because I very much doubt the opposite of that is "defensive". But it seems to be those two extremes for you. The fact is anyone who has watched us this season cannot say we're playing defensively. Remember the teams we played last season? THAT was defensive football.

We didn't adopt that system until quite near the end of the season, during last season which was 343.

 

Robbie played a 4231 most weeks or 442.

 

But yeah I'll explain Toque, all out attack is playing a very high line similar how Stendel did with Barnsley and us, or how Celtic now play under Ange and Rangers with Gerrard. 

 

The plan is to have a very high defensive line and press high allowing them to regain possession quickly, either from winning the ball high up the park or the other team basically hoofing it up the park or aiming to hit the corners to relieve some pressure and get them further up the park. 

 

Many premier league teams play this way, Chelsea, Man utd, Liverpool, Leicester, Leeds,Man City, they also try to play a possession based game. 

 

I think it's also very clear we set up with two defensive minded midfielders in our line up, with the formation looking more like a 541, when teams have the ball against us. 

 

My evidence for Robbie being more defensive than attacking, when he brought Mceneff on he played him out on the left hand side, with Jamie Walker and Henderson also coming on. 

 

The reason he brought Mceneff on was to shore up the midfield, a tactic Robbie used against Dundee when Billy King got injured instead of bringing on a sub that was like for like, he put Gomis on that day and we ended up inviting pressure with Dundee eventually finding a breakthrough. 

 

Here is the Match report for the Dundee game in 2016 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34817947&ved=2ahUKEwitmION3oHzAhURT8AKHXYRA1IQFnoECC8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3UdHEP_5gic3c0rRoBXX31 and the one recently with Aberdeen 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58215743&ved=2ahUKEwjPwYzN3oHzAhWnQUEAHVkmB6gQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0z1H-JDRkK74iXeTfWfLB6

 

Both resulting in him putting on central midfield players in a wide position instead going like for like. 

 

This is in no way a criticism, but you really have to understand what Robbie is about, at the end of the day Craig Levein was Robbie's mentor so it's only natural he picks up some of his habits etc he regularly played prince out wide too. 

 

Craig did the same with Djoum and Prince. 

 

But that's really the difference, don't expect games where Robbie will tell the team if you lose a goal, don't worry about it because we will outscore them. 

 

He will set us up to be hard to beat first and foremost, hence why we play with two defensive midfielders in our 343 system. 

 

 

Again this isn't a criticism teams play different styles and coaches / managers have different methods and ideas of how to play / win. 

 

In no way am i saying he sets us up not to win games, rather he's cautious instead of maybe being attacking or positive. 

 

Hope this explains what i was trying to say, as a few want him to be more attacking, but they have to understand he is not really about that. 

 

Anyway enough of that he has us 3rd currently unbeaten, so people can't complain too much. 

 

Even if we don't play great football all the time, he currently has us in a position most would of bitten you're hand off if offered before the start of the season, hopefully get a good result up at County 👍

 

 

 

 

 

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Bongo 1874
25 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

We didn't adopt that system until quite near the end of the season, during last season which was 343.

 

Robbie played a 4231 most weeks or 442.

 

But yeah I'll explain Toque, all out attack is playing a very high line similar how Stendel did with Barnsley and us, or how Celtic now play under Ange and Rangers with Gerrard. 

 

The plan is to have a very high defensive line and press high allowing them to regain possession quickly, either from winning the ball high up the park or the other team basically hoofing it up the park or aiming to hit the corners to relieve some pressure and get them further up the park. 

 

Many premier league teams play this way, Chelsea, Man utd, Liverpool, Leicester, Leeds,Man City, they also try to play a possession based game. 

 

I think it's also very clear we set up with two defensive minded midfielders in our line up, with the formation looking more like a 541, when teams have the ball against us. 

 

My evidence for Robbie being more defensive than attacking, when he brought Mceneff on he played him out on the left hand side, with Jamie Walker and Henderson also coming on. 

 

The reason he brought Mceneff on was to shore up the midfield, a tactic Robbie used against Dundee when Billy King got injured instead of bringing on a sub that was like for like, he put Gomis on that day and we ended up inviting pressure with Dundee eventually finding a breakthrough. 

 

Here is the Match report for the Dundee game in 2016 https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34817947&ved=2ahUKEwitmION3oHzAhURT8AKHXYRA1IQFnoECC8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3UdHEP_5gic3c0rRoBXX31 and the one recently with Aberdeen 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58215743&ved=2ahUKEwjPwYzN3oHzAhWnQUEAHVkmB6gQFnoECAcQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0z1H-JDRkK74iXeTfWfLB6

 

Both resulting in him putting on central midfield players in a wide position instead going like for like. 

 

This is in no way a criticism, but you really have to understand what Robbie is about, at the end of the day Craig Levein was Robbie's mentor so it's only natural he picks up some of his habits etc he regularly played prince out wide too. 

 

Craig did the same with Djoum and Prince. 

 

But that's really the difference, don't expect games where Robbie will tell the team if you lose a goal, don't worry about it because we will outscore them. 

 

He will set us up to be hard to beat first and foremost, hence why we play with two defensive midfielders in our 343 system. 

 

 

Again this isn't a criticism teams play different styles and coaches / managers have different methods and ideas of how to play / win. 

 

In no way am i saying he sets us up not to win games, rather he's cautious instead of maybe being attacking or positive. 

 

Hope this explains what i was trying to say, as a few want him to be more attacking, but they have to understand he is not really about that. 

 

Anyway enough of that he has us 3rd currently unbeaten, so people can't complain too much. 

 

Even if we don't play great football all the time, he currently has us in a position most would of bitten you're hand off if offered before the start of the season, hopefully get a good result up at County 👍

 

 

 

 

 

Most teams will hoof it when teams play a high press against them, with the ball ending up at the centre backs at the halfway line or the other team trying to hit the corners, though both teams can play a high press against each other and will try and play through eachothers high press and keep it possession based. 

 

Edit just thought i would add that 👍

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Bongo, not meaning to be picky but we didn’t really play 3-4-3 at all last season. We played 3-5-2 towards the end of last season. 

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15 hours ago, davemclaren said:

The lack of Maroon trees on the plaza is a huge concern. 

 

Fill the corners or GTF

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Bongo 1874
13 hours ago, GinRummy said:

Bongo, not meaning to be picky but we didn’t really play 3-4-3 at all last season. We played 3-5-2 towards the end of last season. 

Think we did play 343 a couple of times, 352 we did play like you said with Boyce and Gnanduillet up front. 

 

We also played a 3412 system with GMS sort of in a free role and been able to roam, but that was nearer the end of the season. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:


Fill the corners with trees. 

Then fill the trees with corners. The more corners full of corners the better. 

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7 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Think we did play 343 a couple of times, 352 we did play like you said with Boyce and Gnanduillet up front. 

 

We also played a 3412 system with GMS sort of in a free role and been able to roam, but that was nearer the end of the season. 

 

 

Actually, I do remember the 3-4-1-2 type set up. 👍

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Bongo 1874
2 minutes ago, GinRummy said:

Actually, I do remember the 3-4-1-2 type set up. 👍

Hopefully get a result at County, hate going up there.

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On 15/09/2021 at 17:09, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

What I don’t understand is a lot of fans are saying 4-2-3-1 is the best formation for the team now (and I understand why they say that).

 

But we were largely shite under that formation last season (as nearly everyone would agree) and every time we change to a 4 mid game this season a lot of people lose their shit.

 

 

 

Maybe with this season's recruitment, folk think that we are now more suited to that system with the likes of Baningime about. If you remember last season, he would even try to play Olly Lee there when that wasn't his strength, he was more about getting forward and linking up with the attackers, nothing like Baningime. They changed the system to the 3-4-3 when Souttar came back from injury.

For me personally, i'd always prefer a 3-5-2  system. That way there's always two upfront and it can be changed to a 5-3-2 when defending. With proper solid defenders, the right sided one (David Weir for example from the past) can cover the right back when he gets forward, the left-sided one (Paul Ritchie-type) can cover the left-back when he gets forward and one stays in the middle with your defensive midfielder stepping back alongside him until we regroup. To make the defence more solid if we are to go back to a back-four first of all, we need to recruit a replacement for Berra instead of "fitting in" a fullback to play there. 

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