Levein Shouldering the Blame and wishing Souttar the best for new season!

[a11ank]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57933992

 

Good article.  Good luck to John, Peter and Liam!

[Bazzas right boot]

This will be a cracking thread.

 

 

Despite C'ls last season, he played for us for over 10 years. Captain, manager, Dof , managed back to back 3rd place finishes, had some great European nights and gave hibs more nightmares than their meth induced comas will have.

He lived the dream many of us would love.

 

Shame he Never won a trophy with us an d likely never will now, although there a few that goes for.

 

Decent, honest read.

[August Landmesser]

I liked his closing remark 'If you don't get results, you get stick - that's one thing she quickly learned about football. I blame her managers..."

 

He's a funny man is big Craig. I wish it could have worked out for him, he's a PHM and I bear no ill-will

[stevie1874]

Good article even after all the flak he took still talks us up. Not going to be popular but should always be welcome at Tynecastle. 

[Nookie Bear]

This type of sentence really winds me up: “If it wasn't for his injury problems, Souttar would have 30 Scotland caps - rather than his current tally of three - and be playing in the English Premier League.”

 

It isn’t just CL who says that, it’s a common thing on here, to see every good player as someone we can sell on. No determination to build a team to win trophies, just flog ‘em to the highest bidder. 
 

Perhaps we need to seriously consider becoming a feeder club for a larger club, like Royal Antwerp. 

[McCrae]

3 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Good article even after all the flak he took still talks us up. Not going to be popular but should always be welcome at Tynecastle. 

 

 Very much so….but not for a couple of seasons…..

[LarrysRightFoot]

His ‘accepting blame’ comes across as very hollow to me, almost flippant - he oversaw a years long downward spiral. 

[Jumper]

That takes cajhones to say that about blaming the managers, fair do’s to him. Doesn’t mean he’s forgiven for everything but no doubting his feelings for the club.

[Riccarton3]

Its stretching it a bit to place so much weight on one player re progress. But, that aside, To me it says more about continued and lengthy  negligence re appropriate cover and wasting resources on 'projects' when such cover should have been addressed.A situation that current!y still exists.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Riccarton3

[Jeffros Furios]

Levein can **** off ! 

[LarrysRightFoot]

5 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Its stretching it a bit to place so much weight on one player re progress. To me it says more about continued and lengthy  negligence re appropriate cover and wasting resources on 'projects' when such cover should have been addressed.A situation that current!y still exists.

His reasoning is also contradictory - we’ve been poor because Souttar has been injured but if he wasn’t injured he be playing in the EPL, so we’d have been without him anyway. 

Edited July 29, 2021 by LarrysRightFoot

[John Findlay]

Mods just close this thread before it becomes the all-out bunfight like a previous 50+ threads have become.

[Riccarton3]

2 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Mods just close this thread before it becomes the all-out bunfight like a previous 50+ threads have become.

No need to get all Vladimir Putin

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

25 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Its stretching it a bit to place so much weight on one player re progress. But, that aside, To me it says more about continued and lengthy  negligence re appropriate cover and wasting resources on 'projects' when such cover should have been addressed.A situation that current!y still exists.

I get your point but look at how much we improved in the last few games of the season last year when he returned.

[tian447]

42 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Good article even after all the flak he took still talks us up. Not going to be popular but should always be welcome at Tynecastle. 

 

Absolutely he should. His Hearts association goes much futher back than the season that saw him sacked. 

 

I'm not sure any of us, given the same opportunity to be in such a position at the club, would have given it up easily either. I know that if I was manager of the club I supported, I'd probably convince myself I could turn it around as well, even when results were going the other way.  Let's not forget, Levein had us playing some really good stuff, fighting at the top of the table before the disaster that happened. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

43 minutes ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

His ‘accepting blame’ comes across as very hollow to me, almost flippant - he oversaw a years long downward spiral. 

He's a tosser.

[The Real Maroonblood]

42 minutes ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Levein can **** off ! 

This.

[jamboozy]

In before the cat fight👍
I think it’s a good thing we have a voice in the media, alright! I know it’s CL but love or loathe him he’s still a Hearts man.

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, August Landmesser said:

I liked his closing remark 'If you don't get results, you get stick - that's one thing she quickly learned about football. I blame her managers..."

 

He's a funny man is big Craig. I wish it could have worked out for him, he's a PHM and I bear no ill-will

Seems typical Levein though - he must know  he's fecked most things up since 2017, but still wants to offload some blame on to McPhee & Stendel for it.  

[August Landmesser]

Just now, Lone Striker said:

Seems typical Levein though - he must know  he's fecked most things up since 2017, but still wants to offload some blame on to McPhee & Stendel for it.  

tbf they do shoulder some blame

[Lone Striker]

Just now, August Landmesser said:

tbf they do shoulder some blame

Some ..... but its a tiny bit compared to him.     

[Jambonairn]

I’ve always been of the opinion the Craig Levein tried his utmost to make Hearts a success albeit he failed rather spectacularly. I don’t condone some of the personal abuse he’s taken in years personally but that’s part and parcel of football and football management - he certainly didn’t do himself any favours particularly in his time performing the dual role of Manager / DOF.

 

I also believe he’s a Hearts fan and wants the club to do well but I really wish he’d move on from Hearts and that the BBC would stop giving him the airtime to make comment on Hearts and our recent or current struggles. Levein taking these opportunities shows an arrogance (which we’ve always know he has) and I just wish he’d leave it be and provide solid punditry on teams / games not involving Hearts. 

[Jambo92]

Don't disagree with any of the article.  His second tenure was a strange one, first two seasons on paper where pretty much flawless.  Hard to tell what happened, whether Robbie asked for more influence or if Levein didn't give him any but the hire of Cathro was the moment we slammed on the breaks and went into reverse gear, hard to tell if we have managed to get out of reverse as of yet.  No doubt we have the spine of a great side, nows the time to add youthful quality around that spine.

[Niemi’s gloves]

A good and fair article that has allowed a couple of the usual suspects on here to out themselves (again) as  the idiots they are.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

A good and fair article that has allowed a couple of the usual suspects on here to out themselves (again) as  the idiots they are.

[Taffin]

I like Craig Levein...when he's not at Hearts. I do think he had good intentions for us, he's just not got the ability and nous that he thinks he does. We don't owe him anything though so I don't feel sorry for him in any way but do wish him all the best.

 

For anyone who does think he's a PHM though:

 

"For a year or so now I've been looking, and I realised to get to the English Premiership, where I wanted to be, it would be difficult to do that from a provincial club, which Hearts are"

 

First and foremost, CL cares about CL and there's nothing wrong with that but too many seem to care more about CL than Hearts.

[Riccarton3]

1 hour ago, August Landmesser said:

I liked his closing remark 'If you don't get results, you get stick - that's one thing she quickly learned about football. I blame her managers..."

 

He's a funny man is big Craig. I wish it could have worked out for him, he's a PHM and I bear no ill-will

I blame her having your ear too often, Craig.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Will always be one of our best players, or most talented. I loved him when he was in his prime 

[The Real Maroonblood]

Just now, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Will always be one of our best players, or most talented. I loved him when he was in his prime 

This.

[JamboAndrew]

It didn't work out like the first time managing us. He is stubborn and unfortunately only operated the way he always has and didn't evolve with the game. We stuck with him too long. But I have no doubt he had the best intentions for Hearts at mind. He made mistakes. Some will be forgiven more quickly than others. But as others pointed out  he has also done a power of good for us.

[Niemi’s gloves]

4 minutes ago, Taffin said:

I like Craig Levein...when he's not at Hearts. I do think he had good intentions for us, he's just not got the ability and nous that he thinks he does. We don't owe him anything though so I don't feel sorry for him in any way but do wish him all the best.

 

For anyone who does think he's a PHM though:

 

"For a year or so now I've been looking, and I realised to get to the English Premiership, where I wanted to be, it would be difficult to do that from a provincial club, which Hearts are"

 

First and foremost, CL cares about CL and there's nothing wrong with that but too many seem to care more about CL than Hearts.

Interesting quote (if genuine). I’d be interested to know where and when it dates from. From memory, CL was linked with moves direct to the English premiership - Spurs I think - while that makes it sound as if he was touting himself for a move to the OF while a Hearts player, something I don’t remember.

[Taffin]

6 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

Interesting quote (if genuine). I’d be interested to know where and when it dates from. From memory, CL was linked with moves direct to the English premiership - Spurs I think - while that makes it sound as if he was touting himself for a move to the OF while a Hearts player, something I don’t remember.

 

He's talking about joining Leicester in 2004(?)...the very definition of a provincial club...which Hearts aren't.

 

He's every right to do so, but looking to leave for over a year isn't what I'd expect a PHM to be doing and highlights why he was quite happy to walk out on us when he did. All credit to him for furthering his career though, I'd do the same in his shoes...just not at Hearts. The provincial stuff was just needlessly disrespectful given its not actually true though.

Edited July 29, 2021 by Taffin

[Fort Vallance]

9 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

Interesting quote (if genuine). I’d be interested to know where and when it dates from. From memory, CL was linked with moves direct to the English premiership - Spurs I think - while that makes it sound as if he was touting himself for a move to the OF while a Hearts player, something I don’t remember.

He's talking about managing surely and not as a player ?

[Niemi’s gloves]

10 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

He's talking about joining Leicester in 2004(?)...the very definition of a provincial club...which Hearts aren't.

 

He's every right to do so, but looking to leave for over a year isn't what I'd expect a PHM to be doing and highlights why he was quite happy to walk out on us when he did. All credit to him for furthering his career though, I'd do the same in his shoes...just not at Hearts. The provincial stuff was just needlessly disrespectful given its not actually true though.

 

6 minutes ago, Fort Vallance said:

He's talking about managing surely and not as a player ?

Yes, that makes more sense. I read it as dating from his time as a player. 

[Taffin]

2 minutes ago, Niemi’s gloves said:

 

Yes, that makes more sense. I read it as dating from his time as a player. 

 

Yeh sorry, I should have clarified that. I didn't see him as a player so to me he's only been our manager. I forget that for others they maybe tend to remember him as a player first.

[Shanks]

Accepts responsibility but was still happy to sit on his arse whilst scooping a wage from the club for 6 months.  
 

Hollow words indeed.

[Hmfc1965]

1 minute ago, Shanks said:

Accepts responsibility but was still happy to sit on his arse whilst scooping a wage from the club for 6 months.  
 

Hollow words indeed.

It's a difficult one. 

He was probably the best player I've seen play for Hearts. 

He had a decent record during his first time as manager.

Latterly it was an absolute disaster but I'm sure he thought he could sort it.

Would anyone else bail in these circumstances?

He should have been sacked though. 

[luckydug]

2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

This type of sentence really winds me up: “If it wasn't for his injury problems, Souttar would have 30 Scotland caps - rather than his current tally of three - and be playing in the English Premier League.”

 

It isn’t just CL who says that, it’s a common thing on here, to see every good player as someone we can sell on. No determination to build a team to win trophies, just flog ‘em to the highest bidder. 
 

Perhaps we need to seriously consider becoming a feeder club for a larger club, like Royal Antwerp. 

I agree with you I want to see Hearts win things and we won't do that selling our best players. 

Any fee we received for JS would be reduced because of his injury record anyway. 

I mind the old days when fans would be livid when their best players were sold. 

Modern football sucks. 

[Section Q]

2 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Levein can **** off ! 

Pretty much this. Made some dreadful decisions as manager. Damage is still being felt.....

[soonbe110]

2 hours ago, LarrysRightFoot said:

His reasoning is also contradictory - we’ve been poor because Souttar has been injured but if he wasn’t injured he be playing in the EPL, so we’d have been without him anyway. 

But we would have had millions in exchange. 

[Locky]

2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

This type of sentence really winds me up: “If it wasn't for his injury problems, Souttar would have 30 Scotland caps - rather than his current tally of three - and be playing in the English Premier League.”

 

It isn’t just CL who says that, it’s a common thing on here, to see every good player as someone we can sell on. No determination to build a team to win trophies, just flog ‘em to the highest bidder. 
 

Perhaps we need to seriously consider becoming a feeder club for a larger club, like Royal Antwerp. 

That's been the plan for years and rightly so. The only way we can dream of fighting for regular silverware is with the money in the bank to at least try and compete with the OF. Only realistic way of making such money is to buy cheap and sell high which is exactly what we intended to do with John Souttar.

 

We play in a bang average league, and we're not even a top club at that. I'd bite your hand off to be a breeding ground for talent and make big money.

[Clerry Jambo]

2 hours ago, jamboozy said:

In before the cat fight👍
I think it’s a good thing we have a voice in the media, alright! I know it’s CL but love or loathe him he’s still a Hearts man.

This 

[Darren]

I think it's a very poor article.

 

Martin Watt has decided to take what Craig Levein has told him and write it up like a tabloid newspaper column. Very odd.

Levein was talking to BBC Sport Scotland's Martin Watt

And that's before I get to the actual content of what he's said.

 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, luckydug said:

I agree with you I want to see Hearts win things and we won't do that selling our best players. 

Any fee we received for JS would be reduced because of his injury record anyway. 

I mind the old days when fans would be livid when their best players were sold. 

Modern football sucks. 

 

32 minutes ago, Locky said:

That's been the plan for years and rightly so. The only way we can dream of fighting for regular silverware is with the money in the bank to at least try and compete with the OF. Only realistic way of making such money is to buy cheap and sell high which is exactly what we intended to do with John Souttar.

 

We play in a bang average league, and we're not even a top club at that. I'd bite your hand off to be a breeding ground for talent and make big money.

 

Yep, my frustration is with the fact we are getting our talent snaffled up by diddy clubs down south who have won the football lottery by being in the same country as Man Utd.

[Governor Tarkin]

3 hours ago, Jeffros Furios said:

Levein can **** off ! 

 

This.

 

2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

He's a tosser.

 

This.

 

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Will always be one of our best players, or most talented. I loved him when he was in his prime 

 

This.

[DalryJambo]

3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

This type of sentence really winds me up: “If it wasn't for his injury problems, Souttar would have 30 Scotland caps - rather than his current tally of three - and be playing in the English Premier League.”

 

It isn’t just CL who says that, it’s a common thing on here, to see every good player as someone we can sell on. No determination to build a team to win trophies, just flog ‘em to the highest bidder. 
 

Perhaps we need to seriously consider becoming a feeder club for a larger club, like Royal Antwerp. 

 

Is part of it not the manager investing emotionally in the career progression of the players? He wants them to do well and be good enough to progress.  As a football coach that's surely one of the drivers?

 

Do we want to attract players with the sole ambition of Hearts being the pinnacle of their careers or do we want players who dream of playing in the top leagues in England, Italy, Spain, Germany etc? 

 

If we can get 3-4 season from players between 18/19-22/23 then the club benefits on the pitch, hopefully gets a bit of cash and maybe even a sell on fee in the future. 

 

The tricky part is doing this consistently and attracting the quality 15-19 year old to the club. 

[jr ewing]

Lifelong membership?

I don't think so. 

[LarrysRightFoot]

54 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

But we would have had millions in exchange. 

What’s your point caller? We wasted X amount on duds during Levein’s tenure as DoF and Manager   

[Dagger Is Back]

Wonderful player and would undoubtedly have become a top class player for a far bigger club than us.

 

This last episode of him being in charge though has left a very sour taste. Some utterly bizarre decisions and left our club in a real mess both on/off the park.

 

The mans got balls of steel to have made such a dogs breakfast of our club and to be still whoring himself out to the media, and pretending he’s some authority on all things football.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TurboT]

Levein could have left after the first Cup Final against Celtic and I think the majority of Hearts fans wouldn't have wished him any ill feeling.

 

However, he decided to stay on for another season when pretty much everyone bar Budge knew it was the wrong decision and set us on the road to relegation. 
 

Perhaps down the line he  may be welcomed back, but we're still paying now for mistakes that Levein made.