Old firm colts lowland league

[Dunks]

26 minutes ago, HartleyLegend3 said:

This is going to attract lots and lots of knuckle draggers. 

 

If lockdown is completely eased by the time the new season starts. Will be a scramble to get tickets. 

 

Most if not all stadiums, Old firm will only get offered a couple of hundred tickets max. Will see and escalation in trouble in these small towns with old firm fans with no ticket getting wasted in the boozer. 

 

The colts only get a couple of hundred now at games, why do you think this will change?

Also seems to be a move by fans of many of the clubs - particularly in the East - to boycott these games.

[Saint Jambo]

11 hours ago, Perth to Paisley said:

Here's the details 

 

So many issues...

- Does the 'league integrity' piece potentially reduce the incentive for the old firm to put youngsters on the first team bench knowing that giving them 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there might mean they can't play for the colts?

- The 'Boardroom' requirement just reeks of lower league boardroom mentality. What we really want is to get to say 'when I was speaking to a Celtic/Rangers board member last week...'

- It is to 'provide a solution to a critical problem'. What is that critical problem? We've been coping without colt teams so far.

- If a colt team wins the league, the promotion place passes to the 2nd place team. Is that not something that the SPFL teams should have to agree to? The deal agreed with the SPFL was to set up a play-off involving the bottom club of League 2 and the Champions of the Lowland and Highland Leagues. If the team that wins the Lowland League isn't eligible for promotion, then the winners of the Highland League should go straight to the play-off final.

 

Would be happy to see Kelty Hearts and every other Lowland League team from here to eternity stuffed in the play-offs

 

Happy for their to be a discussion about colt teams, but that should be a sensible discussion with all clubs involved rather than preferential treatment for two clubs. Lowland League think it is outrageous for League 2 to be a closed shop, but happy to pick and choose clubs to invite into their league.

[JTJ]

In the challenge cup, fans of lower league teams boycotted all colts games and made it clear to their clubs they would stop buying season tickets if the colts were allowed into league 2. These are the regular fans who turn up to all games and buy programmes, hospitality etc. There may only be 2-300 but the regular income is something the clubs can't do without - especially with the poor turnout of bigots to watch their colts sides.  The Lowland League will discover something similar once the early interest wears off and "friendly" games are what they are watching (no promotion/relegation for the bigots means games are glorified friendlies).  

 

Unfortunately, many officials at small clubs support one or other bigot so do what they are told. I remember the Airdrieonians owner accepting liquidation from David Murray's Rangers and when Airdrie Utd joined the league got himself elected League chairman to block any complaint about Newco joining the league - some clubs had brought up the lack of 3 years accounts but they were quickly ignored by the League chairman and agreement rushed through against the rules.

[Perth to Paisley]

21 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

So many issues...

- Does the 'league integrity' piece potentially reduce the incentive for the old firm to put youngsters on the first team bench knowing that giving them 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there might mean they can't play for the colts?

- The 'Boardroom' requirement just reeks of lower league boardroom mentality. What we really want is to get to say 'when I was speaking to a Celtic/Rangers board member last week...'

- It is to 'provide a solution to a critical problem'. What is that critical problem? We've been coping without colt teams so far.

- If a colt team wins the league, the promotion place passes to the 2nd place team. Is that not something that the SPFL teams should have to agree to? The deal agreed with the SPFL was to set up a play-off involving the bottom club of League 2 and the Champions of the Lowland and Highland Leagues. If the team that wins the Lowland League isn't eligible for promotion, then the winners of the Highland League should go straight to the play-off final.

 

Would be happy to see Kelty Hearts and every other Lowland League team from here to eternity stuffed in the play-offs

 

Happy for their to be a discussion about colt teams, but that should be a sensible discussion with all clubs involved rather than preferential treatment for two clubs. Lowland League think it is outrageous for League 2 to be a closed shop, but happy to pick and choose clubs to invite into their league.

Can’t disagree 

[Mikey1874]

Great for the international team says Gerrard.

 

I think playing Kai Kennedy and Glenn Middleton in the first team instead of Jermain Defoe and Ryan Kent would help more.

 

So Steve Clarke is going to chose to watch Bonnyrigg and Vale of Leithan games and then think 'he's good enough for the Portugal and Holland games'. 

[Perth to Paisley]

The L2 clubs will be looking carefully at this and looking for any positives:

• increase in crowds (unlikely)
• increase in match day income/ corporate (likely)
• increase in league profile (likely in year 1)
• increase in tv coverage  (unlikely)
• increase in league sponsorship (unlikely)

like the LL they will grab their ‘share’ regardless - the notion we are all in this together was evidenced last summer.

 

 

 

[Nookie Bear]

28 minutes ago, Saint Jambo said:

 

So many issues...

- Does the 'league integrity' piece potentially reduce the incentive for the old firm to put youngsters on the first team bench knowing that giving them 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there might mean they can't play for the colts?

- The 'Boardroom' requirement just reeks of lower league boardroom mentality. What we really want is to get to say 'when I was speaking to a Celtic/Rangers board member last week...'

- It is to 'provide a solution to a critical problem'. What is that critical problem? We've been coping without colt teams so far.

- If a colt team wins the league, the promotion place passes to the 2nd place team. Is that not something that the SPFL teams should have to agree to? The deal agreed with the SPFL was to set up a play-off involving the bottom club of League 2 and the Champions of the Lowland and Highland Leagues. If the team that wins the Lowland League isn't eligible for promotion, then the winners of the Highland League should go straight to the play-off final.

 

Would be happy to see Kelty Hearts and every other Lowland League team from here to eternity stuffed in the play-offs

 

Happy for their to be a discussion about colt teams, but that should be a sensible discussion with all clubs involved rather than preferential treatment for two clubs. Lowland League think it is outrageous for League 2 to be a closed shop, but happy to pick and choose clubs to invite into their league.

 

Excellent points.

 

For the bit i have highlighted, i believe the 'critical problem' is that the old firm want to join a future European League but keep a footprint in their home country.

 

The OF are actively and openly pursuing a way out of the Scottish League system, so why commit more at a lower level?

[RobboM]

1 hour ago, Perth to Paisley said:

The L2 clubs will be looking carefully at this and looking for any positives:

• increase in crowds (unlikely)
• increase in match day income/ corporate (likely)
• increase in league profile (likely in year 1)
• increase in tv coverage  (unlikely)
• increase in league sponsorship (unlikely)

like the LL they will grab their ‘share’ regardless - the notion we are all in this together was evidenced last summer.

 

 

 

The reputational damage to the Lowland League is huge. This is a move which was rejected by the SPFL leagues above and all the leagues below. For those of us that have been following the development of the pyramid in the non league game over the past years this has to rank as a huge kick in the chuckies.

[Newton51]

2 minutes ago, RobboM said:

The reputational damage to the Lowland League is huge. This is a move which was rejected by the SPFL leagues above and all the leagues below. For those of us that have been following the development of the pyramid in the non league game over the past years this has to rank as a huge kick in the chuckies.

I think they should have to apply to the actual bottom of the pyramid. Thought not sure the lower tiers would be happy about that either as would be challengers for promotion 

[RobboM]

1 minute ago, Newton51 said:

I think they should have to apply to the actual bottom of the pyramid. Thought not sure the lower tiers would be happy about that either as would be challengers for promotion 

That at least would have some degree of integrity about it. There are plenty of clubs that have invested well over £25k in ground improvements to reach licensing requirements to be eligible to be promoted to the LL on merit. To see these two ****ing arse cheeks waving a cheque and jumping the queue leaves me ****ing raging .... I'm not alone on that!

[Tasavallan]

For one season only?  What's the point.  There has to be an ulterior motive.  Currently only 1 team promoted from SLFL after Play-off with SHFL champions and Club 42 of the SPFL.  Would either of the OF let one of the pair get a chance of promotion to League 2, while the other doesn't.

 

As said before, I have no problem with Colt teams in the pyramid but I do when it is only offered to the OF and not the other premiership clubs.  It should also not effect the elevation of teams within the pyramid structure and they should be entered into the WoSFL.

 

It would appear that greed is talking here after a season of empty terraces.  I do hope that the 42 continue to oppose.

[Rogue Daddy]

22 minutes ago, Tasavallan said:

For one season only?  What's the point.  There has to be an ulterior motive.  Currently only 1 team promoted from SLFL after Play-off with SHFL champions and Club 42 of the SPFL.  Would either of the OF let one of the pair get a chance of promotion to League 2, while the other doesn't.

 

As said before, I have no problem with Colt teams in the pyramid but I do when it is only offered to the OF and not the other premiership clubs.  It should also not effect the elevation of teams within the pyramid structure and they should be entered into the WoSFL.

 

It would appear that greed is talking here after a season of empty terraces.  I do hope that the 42 continue to oppose.

Absolutely, this stinks. I mean, why is it both OF teams? Why not just Rangers or just Celtic... but both, and nobody else?... I actually find it refreshing that the spfl clubs booted this into touch! I hope the LLs do the same.

For me, it would have to be open to all or (at the very least) start at the lowest possible entry point. 

[tolcross lad]

14 hours ago, Locky said:

Tier 5 isn't the bottom though. Tier 7 would be. If they started in said tier, then like you I wouldn't have an issue. But they've skipped 2 levels on the pyramid essentially, while clubs who've made the switch from Juniors, who fully deserve a crack at the pyramid, have to truly start from the bottom. 

 

Yet another nonsense decision from the Scottish football community, but I'm not surprised.

Sporting Integrity thrown out of the window yet again.I remember well the hoops that Bonnyrigg Rose had to go through to win promotion to the Lowland League and the crassness of the SFA in dealing with their situation.

At least Bonnyrigg Rose voted against the move.

Our football governance is a cesspit  of narrow minded self interest and wheeling and dealing both political and financial between SPFL SFA and their respective boards and the clubs themselves.

It was all laid bare last season.

All major decisions should stem first and foremost from Sporting Integrity .The OF Colts should start at the very bottom but in the world that is Scottish football this is not going to happen because there are other agendas at play.

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, Locky said:

Not surprised. They've been the whipping boys of that division for the last few seasons. Probably milking all they can get before their inevitable relegation back to the EoS.

 

Be interesting to see what Kelty Hearts publish today. They posted last night that they were the club who abstained from voting due to their current situation, but they would publish a full statement today.

 

The statement from Kelty Hearts. To follow up with an email to members and their mailing list which you can join.

 

https://keltyhearts.co.uk/lowland-league-b-team-proposal/

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

Unless there are more details elsewhere it doesn’t seem to mention what happens if either of the bigot babies finish at the bottom of the league.

 

[Nookie Bear]

11 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The statement from Kelty Hearts. To follow up with an email to members and their mailing list which you can join.

 

https://keltyhearts.co.uk/lowland-league-b-team-proposal/

 

That statement is a masterpiece of barely concealed frustration and rage.

[Tasavallan]

16 minutes ago, The Wrinkly Ninja said:

Unless there are more details elsewhere it doesn’t seem to mention what happens if either of the bigot babies finish at the bottom of the league.

 

 

Vale of Leithen principle.  No relegation. However highly unlikely in case of bum-cheeks' offspring.

[Mikey1874]

19 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

That statement is a masterpiece of barely concealed frustration and rage.

 

Making a good point about engaging with people. And building support in the wider football community.

[Footballfirst]

Civil Service Strollers voted against the proposal.

 

 

....... but their president has decided to step down in protest against the Lowland League decision to approve the proposal.

 

[Rogue Daddy]

34 minutes ago, The Wrinkly Ninja said:

Unless there are more details elsewhere it doesn’t seem to mention what happens if either of the bigot babies finish at the bottom of the league.

 

They're so arrogant, they simply don't see it happening. It's the same arrogance that (when it's mentioned that they're buggering off to England) has them challenging at the very top of the EPL.

[Saint Jambo]

1 hour ago, Tasavallan said:

For one season only?  What's the point.  There has to be an ulterior motive.  Currently only 1 team promoted from SLFL after Play-off with SHFL champions and Club 42 of the SPFL.  Would either of the OF let one of the pair get a chance of promotion to League 2, while the other doesn't.

 

As said before, I have no problem with Colt teams in the pyramid but I do when it is only offered to the OF and not the other premiership clubs.  It should also not effect the elevation of teams within the pyramid structure and they should be entered into the WoSFL.

 

It would appear that greed is talking here after a season of empty terraces.  I do hope that the 42 continue to oppose.

 

Can only assume that the plan is to make another attempt next year to get a 16 team League 2, with the colts then moving up. Less a case of not promoted if they win the league than aiming to buy 'promotion' wherever they finish. They will use a season in the lowland league to try and gather evidence of the benefit they bring.

[RobboM]

Given that the SPFL mounted a legal challeng to the nominated LL champion this year, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that they could do the same next year if LL nominate a champion who finishes 3rd or finishes behind a team based on the Old Firm colts results.

If that is the case then the LL might find it costs more than £50k to get the legal backing they need to fight their corner.

Maybe all the LL clubs would chip in to fund any shortfall? 😁

[Footballfirst]

29 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Given that the SPFL mounted a legal challeng to the nominated LL champion this year, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that they could do the same next year if LL nominate a champion who finishes 3rd or finishes behind a team based on the Old Firm colts results.

If that is the case then the LL might find it costs more than £50k to get the legal backing they need to fight their corner.

Maybe all the LL clubs would chip in to fund any shortfall? 😁
 

 

There are several unanswered questions, of which that is one.  The SPFL would have to accept a change to the playoff criteria.

 

[Nookie Bear]

Interesting that there seems to be a 'critical problem' that needs sorted - but nobody appears to know what that is - and yet there was no awareness last season that we faced a much clearer 'critical problem' and yet the solution was to maintain the status quo.

 

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Interesting that there seems to be a 'critical problem' that needs sorted - but nobody appears to know what that is - and yet there was no awareness last season that we faced a much clearer 'critical problem' and yet the solution was to maintain the status quo.

 

 

Rangers v East Kilbride and Celtic v Dalbeatie is going to produce the Scotland squad. Maybe 2 or 3 East Kilbride players will be in the squad for Qatar because they can show how good they are v 17 year old Old Firm youngsters. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Mikey1874

[Tasavallan]

18 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

 

There are several unanswered questions, of which that is one.  The SPFL would have to accept a change to the playoff criteria.

 

 

What is the point of a ONE YEAR PROJECT?  Is it that both B teams will get massaged into League 2 at end of season without the need of Play-Offs.  Restructuring of Pyramid perhaps.   It is all crazy to me.

 

 

[HartleyLegend3]

5 hours ago, Dunks said:

 

The colts only get a couple of hundred now at games, why do you think this will change?

Also seems to be a move by fans of many of the clubs - particularly in the East - to boycott these games.

I have no idea what sort of league they used to play in, but a competitive league with trophies to win will bring the old firm fan out. That along with day trips to towns for a p'ss up. If there's trouble at these games as well..knuckle draggers love trouble. 

 

I understand why many would want to boycott but I don't think many will. 

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

Interesting that there seems to be a 'critical problem' that needs sorted - but nobody appears to know what that is - and yet there was no awareness last season that we faced a much clearer 'critical problem' and yet the solution was to maintain the status quo.

 

Yes, the LL is going to resolve a "critical problem" for the whole of Scottish Football, by means of a series of "friendly" matches with OF colt sides..

[ri Alban]

The lowland league teams will absolutely annihilate the dongo duo's cubs. They'll boot them up and down the park every week. 

Edited May 11, 2021 by ri Alban

[Perth to Paisley]

39 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The lowland league teams will absolutely annihilate the dongo duo's cubs. They'll boot them up and down the park every week. 

One can but hope!

[Footballfirst]

Dalbeattie voted no.

 

[Perth to Paisley]

Berwick Rangers voted in favour after extensive consultation with fans groups.

 

https://berwickrangers.com/club-votes-in-favour-of-b-teams-proposal/

[Seymour M Hersh]

Thin end of the wedge. If they are allowed to do this then before you know it they'll be getting promotion allowed as well.

[Arthur Morgan]

Wouldn't surprise me if eventually these OF Colts will be in the Scottish Premiership then the ugly sisters will push for a move down south 🤮

[ToadKiller Dog]

The BBC to start showing lowland league games on BBC alba next season no doubt .

[Jambof3tornado]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

The lowland league teams will absolutely annihilate the dongo duo's cubs. They'll boot them up and down the park every week. 

This.

[Fort Vallance]

11 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Great for the international team says Gerrard.

 

I think playing Kai Kennedy and Glenn Middleton in the first team instead of Jermain Defoe and Ryan Kent would help more.

 

So Steve Clarke is going to chose to watch Bonnyrigg and Vale of Leithan games and then think 'he's good enough for the Portugal and Holland games'. 

Your first sentence s spot on.

[DETTY29]

I am against entry into leagues by vote.

 

There is a pyramid system in place.  Start at the very bottom, not allowed to be promoted above 3rd tier (as league structure stands just now).

 

And lifelong bans for B clubs into Scottish or League Cups (OK make it 100 years)

 

The LL chair was on Sportsound last night.

 

Season after next, LL has to revert to 16 teams.

 

The integrity of the (current) pyramid structure won't be impacted and the following season promotion, relegation etc into LL via (EoS, SoS, WoS) will not be curtailed.

 

Highest non OF B team will be nominated for League 3 play off place next season

 

So he is saying there is no place for them the following season.  IMO, this is leverage for showing L3 clubs 'look what (finances) we could bring you'

 

See my very first sentence.

 

 

John Collins thinks it's great for fundraising for the clubs and the local communities (probably right), Derek Ferguson said if he stayed in Gala (or wherever) it would get him out of the house.

 

 

[Marvin]

13 hours ago, Arthur Morgan said:

Wouldn't surprise me if eventually these OF Colts will be in the Scottish Premiership then the ugly sisters will push for a move down south 🤮

 

You've just tempted fate and very real future scenario. Don't be surprised if this is the real intention. Can't trust them in any given situation. Hypothetically, last year and it was one of those 2 at the bottom, would the powers at be, be as quick to demote them as they did with us? No didn't think so either.

[Footballfirst]

3 minutes ago, Marvin said:

 

You've just tempted fate and very real future scenario. Don't be surprised if this is the real intention. Can't trust them in any given situation. Hypothetically, last year and it was one of those 2 at the bottom, would the powers at be, be as quick to demote them as they did with us? No didn't think so either.

I think that the OF would be better served in that regard if they applied to the English Premier League's U23 set up, rather that have colt sides in the SPFL or LL.

[tokyowalnut]

19 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Rangers v East Kilbride and Celtic v Dalbeatie is going to produce the Scotland squad. Maybe 2 or 3 East Kilbride players will be in the squad for Qatar because they can show how good they are v 17 year old Old Firm youngsters. 

This has been my thinking. I have never watched a LL league game so cannot question the quality of the league, but I could probably say with some certainty that there will no Scotland call ups anytime soon. 
 

How does Rangers and Celtic playing at that level help bridge the gap from their respective reserve/under 20 teams to first team players? Surely loans to Championship teams is more worthwhile? 
 

I could be missing the point. 

[Mikey1874]

As you guys are saying I would want the youngsters to play the elite at their age group. Surely Rangers and Celtic could arrange games. Hibs were doing that last year.

 

And anyone they want to progress the adult route can go on loan. Better to play WITH adults not just against them.

 

This is surely more about the Old Firm brand and the trojan horse for leaving.

[Mikey1874]

Voted against

 

Bonnyrigg 

Civil Service Strollers

Bo'ness

Dalbeattie Star

 

1 more we don't know? Someone has said they think its Edinburgh University. 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Mikey1874

[Ex member of the SaS]

Once again we see the folly of allowing diddy teams to make league decisions. No way suggesting the league would have stopped them anyway, but it shows the smaller teams think more short term financial benefits rather than longer term harm it would do to the whole system. 

[Ex member of the SaS]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

As you guys are saying I would want the youngsters to play the elite at their age group. Surely Rangers and Celtic could arrange games. Hibs were doing that last year.

 

And anyone they want to progress the adult route can go on loan. Better to play WITH adults not just against them.

 

This is surely more about the Old Firm brand and the trojan horse for leaving.

Correct. If the " old firm " had previous for bring on youngsters then fine, but they have no intention of helping the National team and are only paving the way for some shenanigans.

[Nookie Bear]

Surely this needs a vote by all league clubs, not just the LL clubs. 
 

It’s a fundamental change to the operations of two SPL clubs ffs

[j1964m]

What vote percentage do they need for it to pass is it the same top flight voting structure 

[Chuck Berry]

The end game is an expanded L2 for 2022/23 to 16 clubs, OF Colts plus a couple each from LL and HL.

 

The LL are just being used as pawns in the process.

[davemclaren]

Should have started in the bottom tier if they were getting in at all. Thin end of the wedge. 

[Baldwigforjack]

8 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

I am against entry into leagues by vote.

 

There is a pyramid system in place.  Start at the very bottom, not allowed to be promoted above 3rd tier (as league structure stands just now).

 

And lifelong bans for B clubs into Scottish or League Cups (OK make it 100 years)

 

The LL chair was on Sportsound last night.

 

Season after next, LL has to revert to 16 teams.

 

The integrity of the (current) pyramid structure won't be impacted and the following season promotion, relegation etc into LL via (EoS, SoS, WoS) will not be curtailed.

 

Highest non OF B team will be nominated for League 3 play off place next season

 

So he is saying there is no place for them the following season.  IMO, this is leverage for showing L3 clubs 'look what (finances) we could bring you'

 

See my very first sentence.

 

 

John Collins thinks it's great for fundraising for the clubs and the local communities (probably right), Derek Ferguson said if he stayed in Gala (or wherever) it would get him out of the house.

 

 

There is no League 3, surely you mean League 2