Harry Cochrane leaving

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

 

So, that might make Harry Cochrane the new Jason Cummings?

 

Only good at Scottish Championship level?

[Guest ToqueJambo]

9 minutes ago, Tazio said:

So reading through this thread

Cochrane hadn’t kicked on from his early displays 

This isn’t his fault

Or this is his fault (minority view)

He’ll come back to haunt us and it will be our fault

If he doesn’t it will be our fault 

 

This place is a hoot just now. 

 

The ability and determination of some to turn every single little thing into a criticism of the club they are supposed to support is something to behold. You almost have to admire it in a way. It does go against everything most people believe football fans to be though. Blind optimism, a die hard approach, defending your club to the hilt, and seeing things through green/maroon/red glasses is a much more normal state for most genuine football fans.

Edited April 17, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Broxburn Jambo]

On 16/04/2021 at 12:26, gorgieheart said:

Cochrane has hardly kicked a ball since that goal against celtic  , couldn't get a game for a very poor dunfermline ... but folk are ragin because we didn't give him the offer of guaranteed first team football in the Premier league  ?

This place has a growing amount of angry people who are just angry because they are just angry... 

 

Good Post

[Jambo in Bathgate]

2 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Only one managed to get the best out of him so far - Craig Levein, the one you hate the most.

Exactly. 

[Jambo in Bathgate]

On 16/04/2021 at 12:26, gorgieheart said:

Cochrane has hardly kicked a ball since that goal against celtic  , couldn't get a game for a very poor dunfermline ... but folk are ragin because we didn't give him the offer of guaranteed first team football in the Premier league  ?

This place has a growing amount of angry people who are just angry because they are just angry... 

 

He hadn’t done much in his other loan spells either. Even Stendel didn’t use him. 

[redjambo]

I'm glad he's away, for his sake and ours. It just doesn't seem to be working out and I hope that for his sake that he finds a team in which he can approach his potential. Assuming we've done all we can do to make it work, and it simply hasn't, we just need to move on.

[Tazio]

1 hour ago, Jambo in Bathgate said:

He hadn’t done much in his other loan spells either. Even Stendel didn’t use him. 

He didn’t need him, he had Marcel Langer. 

[CJGJ]

When a club offers a one year deal in circumstances like this it is protecting their investment not really showing faith in your future

 

2 or more years and you know they think you have a real chance at the club

 

He's had chances but not taken them but I wish him well in his future career and maybe he'll see this as a wake up call and kick on elsewhere

Of course given his start with us the disappointment is more heavily felt when he has just not progressed

[Jambo in Bathgate]

10 minutes ago, Tazio said:

He didn’t need him, he had Marcel Langer. 

And he turned out to be impressive. 

[DH1986]

15 minutes ago, Tazio said:

He didn’t need him, he had Marcel Langer. 

What a find he was............

[OldGorgie]

4 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Trying to give Cochrane the benefit of the doubt. But the thing that stood out when he first broke through was how confident and assured he looked on the ball - he put some of our more senior players to shame in that respect. That changed completely after his injury.

And that’s where a good coaching set up steps in. Unfortunately at Hearts we have the equivalent of MrBean running that part of the club.

[CJGJ]

6 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

And that’s where a good coaching set up steps in. Unfortunately at Hearts we have the equivalent of MrBean running that part of the club.

And the coaching at all the other clubs he has played for ?

 

Too much nonsense spoke about coaching when the player is either not good enough or lacks the drive to succeed

[Jambo in Bathgate]

We are totally polarised over this subject. The fact  he hasn’t pushed on with us or during his loans. At 19 he should have the motivation to move forward. Unfortunately he always in my opinion wants to be one of the boys.  Not selfish enough to be his own man. He is now looking for a new club based on one of game against Celtic. Hearts have quite rightly protected their investment which means few clubs in Scotland can afford him. 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

36 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

And that’s where a good coaching set up steps in. Unfortunately at Hearts we have the equivalent of MrBean running that part of the club.

 

I'm not sure. Even Budge highlighted the path from youth to first team wasn't clear enough. It has been noticeable for me how almost all the youngsters recently have looked very confident and composed form their first game and good technically - Smith, mcDonald, Cochrane, Hickey, McGill. So coaching at the academy level seems good, but I think there are a lot of variables that come into play when it comes to making the step up and staying in the first team. We seem to have a policy of teaching them "man's football" at a lower level when they're nearly ready for first team football. Neilson himself benefited from that so maybe that's why he's in favour of loans. Levein too came through from Cowdenbeath. He had 50 or so games at that level by 18/19 and slotted into our first team straight away.

Edited April 17, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[Australis]

Looks like he has no motivation.

 

Are he thinks he has already made it after scoring a goal against Celtic.

 

Another waste.

[Bongo 1874]

5 hours ago, sadj said:

Jesus , no like this place blames them for everything. Harry deserves criticism big time.

 

you really have become a very aggressive poster towards others recently. In between being Daniel Stendel’s PR man. 
 

Yeah I'm aggressive again if you want to point out what I've said wrong?, it certainly wasn't me saying the team would be full of 5-6 academy players in due time, I've never guaranteed anything? Never had a 5 year plan, but I know who was here when the 5 year plan was mentioned? Levein, Budge, Neilson. 

 

Did they achieve it?. 

 

For what it's worth I would say I'm not a aggressive poster, passionate yes crazy yes, but not aggressive and I apologise if i come across like that, I'm not Daniel Stendel's pr man, but I could see he was prepared to give youth a chance, and thought highly of our youth players and academy. 

 

He style of play is something i could as a supporter buy into, and understand why he wanted to play that way. 

 

If you feel I've said anything out of place let me know happy to debate?. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Bongo 1874

[OldGorgie]

Every season we have the same nonsense that we need to recruit almost a whole team. How many youngsters have we brought through to the first team. Three maybe, one of which we sold. If the stalwarts on JKB ( see above) can’t see there is something fundamentally wrong with our youth coaching then they are borderline insane.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

12 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Yeah I'm aggressive again if you want to point out what I've said wrong?, it certainly wasn't me saying the team would be full of 5-6 academy players in due time, I've never guaranteed anything? Never had a 5 year plan, but I know who was here when the 5 year plan was mentioned? Levein, Budge, Neilson. 

 

Did they achieve it?. 

 

For what it's worth I would say I'm not a aggressive poster, passionate yes crazy yes, but not aggressive and I apologise if i come across like that, I'm not Daniel Stendel's pr man, but I could see he was prepared to give youth a chance, and thought highly of our youth players and academy. 

 

He style of play is something i could as a supporter buy into, and understand why he wanted to play that way. 

 

If you feel I've said anything out of place let me know happy to debate?. 

 

Stendel gave Henderson, Keena (before selling him to Hartlepool) and Moore a couple of games. So did Levein. Neilson gave McGill a few games, and Irving and Henderson more than a few.

 

I thought Stendel gave Cochrane a chance, but it seems he just extended his loan to Montrose, preferring to bring in Langer in his position.

 

The recent manager who has shown the most willingness to give youth a good chance on a consistent basis remains Robbie Neilson in his first spell, when we had a decent mix of youth and experience throughout his teams. We also signed a few young players to try to develop them, notably Souttar and less successfully Gavin Reilly. After Neilson, Levein has been the most willing to give youth a chance. Cathro and Stendel didn't, but Stendel did look willing to give it a go—but I don't see evidence of him doing it more than Neilson, even compared to this season.

[GinRummy]

8 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Every season we have the same nonsense that we need to recruit almost a whole team. How many youngsters have we brought through to the first team. Three maybe, one of which we sold. If the stalwarts on JKB ( see above) can’t see there is something fundamentally wrong with our youth coaching then they are borderline insane.

There’s definitely a poor return from the academy but is that not just typical of most top flight clubs (I know we are not an spl side but we usually are). Young players make mistakes, mistakes cost points. Some folk are just saying put the youngsters in and show faith in them. I wonder how long they’d be saying that for when a young defender cost us a penalty or someone like Harry Cochrane became a mainstay in midfield while not showing any form at all. 

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

A guy who couldn’t get a regular game for Dunfermline or Montrose has turned down a contract at Heart of Midlothian. 
 

That’s bonkers to be honest. 

Must’ve been a really poor contract offer. It’s the only explanation that makes sense tbh. 

[Randy Marsh]

Cochrane just never progressed enough after breaking through.  You could blame Levein for not giving him much game time but then again he's done nothing when being loaned out at a lower level.  I don't watch  any youth matches but I was at the Hearts colts match away to Albion Rovers at the start of last season.  I was actually shocked how poor Cochrane looked that day.  Henderson and Macdonald were both outstanding though.  Won 4-1.  Hopefully he can still have a good career.  Scott Robinson has after being released.  

[GinRummy]

2 minutes ago, BarneyBattles said:

For Hearts to get compensation the new contract has to be at least what he was already on. 
 

Doesn’t mean it’s a great deal but I’m struggling to see who is going to better it given he’s been utterly shite for three years.  

No idea what he was on. Agree it’s hard to see even a top half championship side taking a risk on him. 

[Pasquale for King]

4 hours ago, Jambo in Bathgate said:

He hadn’t done much in his other loan spells either. Even Stendel didn’t use him. 

Only because he was injured, he was in the plans. 

[Pasquale for King]

41 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Stendel gave Henderson, Keena (before selling him to Hartlepool) and Moore a couple of games. So did Levein. Neilson gave McGill a few games, and Irving and Henderson more than a few.

 

I thought Stendel gave Cochrane a chance, but it seems he just extended his loan to Montrose, preferring to bring in Langer in his position.

 

The recent manager who has shown the most willingness to give youth a good chance on a consistent basis remains Robbie Neilson in his first spell, when we had a decent mix of youth and experience throughout his teams. We also signed a few young players to try to develop them, notably Souttar and less successfully Gavin Reilly. After Neilson, Levein has been the most willing to give youth a chance. Cathro and Stendel didn't, but Stendel did look willing to give it a go—but I don't see evidence of him doing it more than Neilson, even compared to this season.

Stendel was going to play him but he got injured, he did not loan him out. What Neilson did previously has no beating on what’s happening now, you would think folk would’ve realised that with Levein. 
Neilson hasn’t played an under 20 year old this season in the league.

[KyleLafferty]

2 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Stendel was going to play him but he got injured, he did not loan him out. What Neilson did previously has no beating on what’s happening now, you would think folk would’ve realised that with Levein. 
Neilson hasn’t played an under 20 year old this season in the league.

The under 18’s were in there own bubble, the only one who was with the first team is McGill. Denholm etc probably would have played I’d imagine but you can only have so many players on the training field, something like 8-9 per coach. Not defending him at all he should have played more but covid has screwed youth football this year.

[Pasquale for King]

3 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

The under 18’s were in there own bubble, the only one who was with the first team is McGill. Denholm etc probably would have played I’d imagine but you can only have so many players on the training field, something like 8-9 per coach. Not defending him at all he should have played more but covid has screwed youth football this year.

He could’ve taken any of the players he has out on loan into the squad at the start of the season, when everyone was at the same level of fitness. Instead he signed 13 players, some of them like Frear/Roberts/Kastaneer who are no better than Moore for example. Signed  Halliday when we had similar if not better players in that position. 
None of that has anything to do with Covid or youth football being cancelled. 

[DH1986]

52 minutes ago, OldGorgie said:

Every season we have the same nonsense that we need to recruit almost a whole team. How many youngsters have we brought through to the first team. Three maybe, one of which we sold. If the stalwarts on JKB ( see above) can’t see there is something fundamentally wrong with our youth coaching then they are borderline insane.

I can think of only 3 times in my life we’ve brought through a decent group of youngsters from our youth/reserves into the first team together......

 

Mackay, Robbo and Bowman.

 

Locke, Ritchie, McManas, Johnstone and Thomas.

 

Paterson, Walker, Holt, Nicholson, McGhee

 

All three of those periods were when we were struggling for one reason or another. For the rest of the years in between and since we’ve maybe seen one or two only make the grade.

 

 

[KyleLafferty]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

He could’ve taken any of the players he has out on loan into the squad at the start of the season, when everyone was at the same level of fitness. Instead he signed 13 players, some of them like Frear/Roberts/Kastaneer who are no better than Moore for example. Signed  Halliday when we had similar if not better players in that position. 
None of that has anything to do with Covid or youth football being cancelled. 

You’re right we should have played moore. But Moore isn’t under 20, he’s 23. I’m going on about teenagers, it was very difficult for hearts to play them this year. I think the only teenager out on loan is Harry Stone.

[Pasquale for King]

13 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

You’re right we should have played moore. But Moore isn’t under 20, he’s 23. I’m going on about teenagers, it was very difficult for hearts to play them this year. I think the only teenager out on loan is Harry Stone.

Hamilton, Smith, Logan and COCHRANE off the top of my head? Any of that four and Stone could’ve been in the squad and played games. We have to stop playing at bringing through youths and actually do it. 
Add in Morrison and Macdonald. 
Neilson wouldve got more slack if he had played youths. 

Edited April 17, 2021 by Pasquale for King

[KyleLafferty]

Mate I agree with you. But I think young players need to go out on loan sometimes. Most ex pros say going out on loan is the best thing they can do. I don’t think Hamilton will make it at hearts unless he changes positions, Logan and smith will get their chance. I think you’ll see sub appearances from youth players next season. I totally get why we tried to go down the experience route, and although it’s been shite, it’s worked (except this seasons cups). 
 

[wavydavy]

11 hours ago, blairdin said:

 

I like JJ, buy agree with all of that.

 

That instruction should be demanded from the top and fed down. 

 

However, in my view, it won't work currently as I don't think the first team coaching staff have either the bollocks, a consistent/coherant brand/style they want to play, or the ability to coach/improve/mould a young player in the first team squad into a useful player - the signing of Halliday, Roberts, Frear et all screams that to me.

 

I agree. The only thing we can hope for here is that those names you mention were there just to try and get us promoted.

 

Frear is out of contract next month thankfully.

[Lone Striker]

1 hour ago, BarneyBattles said:

A guy who couldn’t get a regular game for Dunfermline or Montrose has turned down a contract at Heart of Midlothian. 
 

That’s bonkers to be honest. 

Yep.  That's a common sense  conclusion .... even if the contract being offered is on reduced terms.  Something's driving his decision to chuck it in at Hearts.    

 

 I wonder if Harry's problem stems from Broonie's revenge having dented his bravery/mentality (as well as his body) - and he's maybe now considering trying his luck in the manicured US league, where he could earn better money too.

 

Look at GMS since he came back from the US - he seems to have lost the heart to  take on the cloggers back here. 

 

The list of promising young players choosing to leave Hearts over the last few years is a bit of an embarrassment - but do our coaches (or Arnott) feel embarrassed or at fault ?

[Pasquale for King]

14 minutes ago, KyleLafferty said:

Mate I agree with you. But I think young players need to go out on loan sometimes. Most ex pros say going out on loan is the best thing they can do. I don’t think Hamilton will make it at hearts unless he changes positions, Logan and smith will get their chance. I think you’ll see sub appearances from youth players next season. I totally get why we tried to go down the experience route, and although it’s been shite, it’s worked (except this seasons cups). 
 

Yeah I don’t think Hamilton is going to be a CH, he might’ve done ok at FB this season though allowing Smith to move inside. 
I agree loans can be beneficial but players can think it’s because they’re not good enough. Look at the guys we’ve had on loan, (Smith-Brown/Meshino/Perriera/Mitchell/Ngoo/Randall) only Dunne has went back to his parent club and played. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, Lone Striker said:

Yep.  That's a common sense  conclusion .... even if the contract being offered is on reduced terms.  Something's driving his decision to chuck it in at Hearts.    

 

 I wonder if Harry's problem stems from Broonie's revenge having dented his bravery/mentality (as well as his body) - and he's maybe now considering trying his luck in the manicured US league, where he could earn better money too.

 

Look at GMS since he came back from the US - he seems to have lost the heart to  take on the cloggers back here. 

 

The list of promising young players choosing to leave Hearts over the last few years is a bit of an embarrassment - but do our coaches (or Arnott) feel embarrassed or at fault ?

Sounds about right. 
If our coaches and Armott are anything like CL or RN then they will take no part of the blame for this. 

[Footballfirst]

Harry as an individual may have failed to deliver on his promise, but you also have to ask whether the youth coaches responsible for the transition of players from academy football to first team football have failed as well.

 

We have had Jack Ross, Jon Daly, Andy Kirk, Liam Fox and John Rankin in charge of U18, U20, Development and Reserve teams since we came out of Admin.  How many of those would you describe as successful?

[Lone Striker]

3 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Harry as an individual may have failed to deliver on his promise, but you also have to ask whether the youth coaches responsible for the transition of players from academy football to first team football have failed as well.

 

We have had Jack Ross, Jon Daly, Andy Kirk, Liam Fox and John Rankin in charge of U18, U20, Development and Reserve teams since we came out of Admin.  How many of those would you describe as successful?

Depends how you describe "success".   😉  If its based on  sustained appearances of youth players for Hearts first team, then only Hickey & Irving would count (plus some fringe appearances for Cochrane, McDonald, Keena, Morrison, Moore, Henderson). If you widen it to include youth players disappearing to bigger clubs or making appearances for other comparable club's first team , then add in Leonard and Doig.

 

I've just looked back at Ann Budge's statement at the end of the 5 year plan in August 2019.   Objective number 3 relates to investment in the Academy in order to generate a continual supply of young first team players - but the impressive numbers of players seems to be based on how many academy players were given pro contracts each season, rather than quantity of game time in the first team.

[gregzy2k7]

We never seem to give these young guys a chance these days, I'm not saying that we should feild a whole team of kids, but if we don't give one or two and opportunity in the first team, how would we ever know if they are good enough or not? This year was a perfect opportunity to bleed the likes of Cochrane, Mcgill, C.Smith and C.Logan, I know in fairness most of them went on loan and got games including Harry Stone, which is still good, however it just seems like we are unwilling to give them a chance in our first team, Cochrane has been on loan 2 or 3 times in the past and still never got considered to play regularly for us in the championship, I don't get it? Is he just not good enough or what? Or is this going to be another doig situation? Where he goes somewhere else, gets a chance and kicks on from that and becomes a stand out.

It's frustrating seeing all these promising young players dissapear after a couple of seasons out on loan, it begs the question is there something fundementally wrong with our development and youth set up?

[Sub4TiddlerMurray]

10 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

 

It's frustrating seeing all these promising young players dissapear after a couple of seasons out on loan, it begs the question is there something fundementally wrong with our development and youth set up?

clearly these players do not see a reasonable pathway into the first team.
 

We are supposed to have a loaner coach who’s job I presume is to keep the young players engaged with the club and to feel wanted but it looks like the opposite is happening. 

 

we also (as has been discussed) sign truckloads of meh experienced players that go straight into the team for a few games then sit on the bench or disappear 

 

And, we don’t seem to want to pay them very much when they (like Irving) reach the first team.

 

All adds up to an unappealing long frustrating slog for a young player. I can see exactly why HC sees a much better pathway playing every week for another club even if it looks on paper like a step down.

[King prawn]

10 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

We never seem to give these young guys a chance these days, I'm not saying that we should feild a whole team of kids, but if we don't give one or two and opportunity in the first team, how would we ever know if they are good enough or not? This year was a perfect opportunity to bleed the likes of Cochrane, Mcgill, C.Smith and C.Logan, I know in fairness most of them went on loan and got games including Harry Stone, which is still good, however it just seems like we are unwilling to give them a chance in our first team, Cochrane has been on loan 2 or 3 times in the past and still never got considered to play regularly for us in the championship, I don't get it? Is he just not good enough or what? Or is this going to be another doig situation? Where he goes somewhere else, gets a chance and kicks on from that and becomes a stand out.

It's frustrating seeing all these promising young players dissapear after a couple of seasons out on loan, it begs the question is there something fundementally wrong with our development and youth set up?

In short, young players make mistakes and a large group would immediately be on their backs calling for experience. 
 

Also I’d have to question the ability of some of them coming through. None of them are anywhere near the level of Paterson, Walker, Nicholson or King in my opinion. 
 

I agree with the part in bold. 

[Section Q]

Brentford rumoured to be interested.....

https://www.nottheoldfirm.com/news/hearts-contract-offer-turned-down-by-harry-cochrane/

[TyphoonJambo]

Once again though we seem to be offering peanuts. I know it was rumoured before,and generally considered to be unfounded, but last night I was speaking to someone very close to his family and they say the stories about us offering Irving a pittance are spot on.

[The Wrinkly Ninja]

25 minutes ago, Section Q said:

Brentford rumoured to be interested.....

https://www.nottheoldfirm.com/news/hearts-contract-offer-turned-down-by-harry-cochrane/

The irony of posters who want to get rid of the academy and go down the Brentford route if this comes to pass shouldn’t be lost.

[maroonlegions]

Heard that Hibs are in for him.

[Pilmuir]

None of us know for sure why Cochrane has decided to leave or whether he will succeed elsewhere. What is clear though, is that he the latest in a long list of “prospects” that have not delivered significant value to the club. Only Hickey brought in a substantial fee and by not signing a contract he left on the cheap in my view. There is something far wrong in the way we nurture players, bring them through to the first team, motivate them to sign mutually beneficial contracts and then sell on at a good price. I was hoping that Savage would improve matters but the early signs from Cochrane (and maybe Irving to follow) are not good.

[DH1986]

1 hour ago, maroonlegions said:

Heard that Hibs are in for him.

If true......

 

I would like to think we’ll be demanding the highest possible fee for him.

 

But I suspect it’ll go to a tribunal and we won’t be looked upon too favourably due to his lack of involvement in the past couple of seasons.

[john thomas]

On 17/04/2021 at 11:03, blairdin said:

 

I have no idea if Bongo is right or not. He's entitled to his opinion though, and deserves respect for posting it.

 

I have no idea.

Ok I assumed , from your post , that you accepted what bongo posted.

 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

3 hours ago, Section Q said:

Brentford rumoured to be interested.....

https://www.nottheoldfirm.com/news/hearts-contract-offer-turned-down-by-harry-cochrane/

Always the chance he could go from non contributor at Montrose to an English Premier team.

Now how can we turn this in to a “Hearts are clueless” type thread?

Has he been scamming Hearts, Dunfermline and Montrose all along.

[OldGorgie]

17 hours ago, DH1986 said:

I can think of only 3 times in my life we’ve brought through a decent group of youngsters from our youth/reserves into the first team together......

 

Mackay, Robbo and Bowman.

 

Locke, Ritchie, McManas, Johnstone and Thomas.

 

Paterson, Walker, Holt, Nicholson, McGhee

 

All three of those periods were when we were struggling for one reason or another. For the rest of the years in between and since we’ve maybe seen one or two only make the grade.

 

 

Looks like this trend is set to continue with Hearts under 18 team reportedly beaten by Hibs twice this season. We were assured that Levein had fixed the academy. Yet another pile of horseshit from the board.

[TheOak88]

On 17/04/2021 at 14:19, Jambo in Bathgate said:

He will need a big change in attitude, and possibly a while away from Scotland. 

 

See this stuff that seems to sporadically pop up about Cochrane’s attitude. Where does it come from, do you know the lad personally or something?

[Section Q]

1 hour ago, alwaysthereinspirit said:

Always the chance he could go from non contributor at Montrose to an English Premier team.

Now how can we turn this in to a “Hearts are clueless” type thread?

Has he been scamming Hearts, Dunfermline and Montrose all along.

Montrose love him apparently.