Harry Cochrane leaving

[DH1986]

Had a wee peek at various media sites this morning expecting to find a story with Cochrane and his agent outraged and denying Hearts claims they offered him a new deal...,...to my complete and utter surprise there was nothing.

 

I’m sticking with believing the club on this occasion.

[blairdin]

9 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

That I don't know and will never know, as Robbie will be in charge next season. 

 

 

What I will question is though is when people come on here, and automatically blame the player for not making it. 

 

I think both have done enough to be getting game time at Hearts, when you consider some of the pish that has played ahead of them. 

 

Are they any worse than Frear or Roberts or Whelan etc my answer is no?. 

 

I'm a big believer on youth, how Hearts are struggling for a settled central midfield. 

 

Outwith the old firm I would argue we have the best in Scotland?. 

 

Peter Haring would walk into most teams, when 100% with Aaron McEneff alongside him good partnership. 

 

But then you look at the options to rotate between them with Cochrane, Irving, McGill, Smith but with C

. Smith more so playing of the striker and getting forward to help the attack. 

 

This was Dean Ritchie opinion when he left the club https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/ritchie-makes-hearts-pathway-jibe-22473480.amp&ved=2ahUKEwju6LWN8IPwAhVuQEEAHf-FAJgQFjAJegQIGRAG&usg=AOvVaw0Qt57I1a1WItgcd1NxquqS&ampcf=1

 

. 

 

Now the only really way to improve the central midfield, would be to get a player the callibre of Allan Campbell or Alex Mowatt. 

 

So really you should be trying to make something of the youth. 

 

Allan Campbell and Alex Mowatt are realistic targets for the club, I was told Stendel wanted to bring Mowatt to the club to help the young lads in particular. 

 

But Stendel seen the club differently than what the current regime does, Stendel believes he can take on the old firm. 

 

Stendel believes in playing youth. 

 

Does the current regime hold the same opinions?. 

 

Overall if you are going to replace Stendel surely you replace him with an attacking coach, and someone that believes in developing youth players?. 

 

So you really just have this vicious revolving circle than keeps repeating itself over and over again, and never really improving the club. 

 

The question you asked me is a fair question, now i ask you one if you weren't a Hearts supporter and bias towards the club, for the reason you support them, would you want to play for our club, is it really attractive, do you think young players turn around and say to there mates, you know what Jim see the Hearts that team, never plays two games the same there way of playing, is so good to watch I want to be a part of that, financially we can't compete with the old firm, but we can beat them at selling youth and developing the very best Scotland has to offer, so  they turn into sellable assets to the club, meaning we can compete on more even terms. 

 

But we have to have the coaches in place to produce these players, I truly believe these kids are talented enough, but the hard part is taking there game to the next level, a good coach can do that. 

 

Great post - thanks for the answer. 

 

I'm disappointed to read Robbie's position is currently secure. If the first team squad have wind of that, it'll be interesting to see the performances, application and body language in the next three games that are effectively dead rubbers.

 

I can't answer you question - setting aside I'm a Hearts fan, I'm a bit more privy to how good the Academy is for the youngest age groups of players making the transition from small sided football to 11 a side. I hear some about how they're looked after, taught, coached, the approach to playing the game coaches try to instill, the long term vision and ambition of these coaches. To to answer your question, if I had a younger kid who was good enough, I would put them into that environment as it is the best possible start. Realistically, most kids that age won't make it, so for that I'd want them to have the best possible experience and reach their max potential. 

 

For me, its when the most promising kids get beyond age 16 things seem to stall. I don't think that's an exclusively Hearts problem, as you said elsewhere - clubs like Hamilton have a better record with young players at this age because their hands are forced, they don't have the budget to recruit as many tried and tested pros. My frustration with Hearts is we have access to facilities that are better than most of of our competitors, so we should be better for the most promising young players at around 16. That requires a first team coaching staff who are engaged with this thought. Levein (for all his many faults) I think was. Stendel absolutely was, you seen it on the occasions he got his team playing. Robbie, I don't see it.

 

As an aside, it saddens me to see Arnott's name being vilified by some on this thread along with John Murray. That couldn't be further from the truth, and shows an ignorance of Arnott's actual role. He's not a scout.

 

John Murray should be removed, along with the first team coaching staff, IMHO.

[mitch41]

14 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

 

Who was Hickey's mentor, Paterson's? I'm curious.

You know I was thinking about Hickey and once in a lifetime a young lad comes along and you know he’s that special we won’t be able to hold on to him because this lad really gets it. 

[Ray Gin]

He's done nothing but go backwards for the past 2 seasons. Couldn't even get a game on loan. Not good enough, no loss. 

[Tokyo Drifter]

On 16/04/2021 at 10:34, iantjambo said:

Leaving at the end of the season

 

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/cochrane-to-leave-hearts-at-end-of-season?fbclid=IwAR36yRF-lMb3rFMMeQyACFKXiQDBmcw1Cp3qVu8yT27qAZUtsK_MHU9sQOg

 

 

Off to Hibs then, presumably.

[wavydavy]

6 minutes ago, blairdin said:

Great post - thanks for the answer. 

 

I'm disappointed to read Robbie's position is currently secure. If the first team squad have wind of that, it'll be interesting to see the performances, application and body language in the next three games that are effectively dead rubbers.

 

I can't answer you question - setting aside I'm a Hearts fan, I'm a bit more privy to how good the Academy is for the youngest age groups of players making the transition from small sided football to 11 a side. I hear some about how they're looked after, taught, coached, the approach to playing the game coaches try to instill, the long term vision and ambition of these coaches. To to answer your question, if I had a younger kid who was good enough, I would put them into that environment as it is the best possible start. Realistically, most kids that age won't make it, so for that I'd want them to have the best possible experience and reach their max potential. 

 

For me, its when the most promising kids get beyond age 16 things seem to stall. I don't think that's an exclusively Hearts problem, as you said elsewhere - clubs like Hamilton have a better record with young players at this age because their hands are forced, they don't have the budget to recruit as many tried and tested pros. My frustration with Hearts is we have access to facilities that are better than most of of our competitors, so we should be better for the most promising young players at around 16. That requires a first team coaching staff who are engaged with this thought. Levein (for all his many faults) I think was. Stendel absolutely was, you seen it on the occasions he got his team playing. Robbie, I don't see it.

 

As an aside, it saddens me to see Arnott's name being vilified by some on this thread along with John Murray. That couldn't be further from the truth, and shows an ignorance of Arnott's actual role. He's not a scout.

 

John Murray should be removed, along with the first team coaching staff, IMHO.

 

 

Unlikely to happen so long as JJ is advising the board considering it was him that appointed him in the first place.

 

In my opinion the reason that teams like Motherwell keep producing good young players is because they don't have the funds to bring in players such as Frear and Roberts as panic buys.

 

They obviously have a good youth set-up and when they have injuries and suspensions they are forced to play their young players and not just for a couple of games such as we do with the likes of Cochrane.

 

You can't expect a young player to step into the team and produce the goods straight away. They need continued game time to get to know the tempo of the game and fit in with their team-mates.

 

If they are allowed to do that then a decent assessment can be made on if they fit in or can make the grade.

 

Hamilton are another club who continually produce good young talenty and again they are often forced to play these players because they have no other options.

 

The answer at Hearts is to ensure that we have the talent in the younger age groups and have a policy of giving the most promising a chance and that instruction needs to come from the board down to the Coaches.

 

I think the priority this season was promotion and Robbie was tasked with achieving that which he did but from now on there should be clear instructions that we need to give our decent youth players a chance otherwise what is the point in having an Academy?

[wavydavy]

2 hours ago, Charlie-Brown- said:

Let's face it we are a ****ing shambles from top to bottom, Budge can't pick a decent manager to save herself and she's let the club throw endless amounts of money on shite players her managers have wanted to bring in to the obvious detriment of our own academy players. Just this season absolute cack like Roberts Frear Popescu Halliday Gnandulliet have been added added to previous shite that Levein and Cathro signed.

 

The club needs a regime change and completely new broom.

#BudgeOverNeilsonOut

 

We would have to hope that Savage will do a better job. Let's face it he couldn't do much worse than the mob before him.

[John Findlay]

I had a great sleep last night.

[john thomas]

29 minutes ago, blairdin said:

Great post - thanks for the answer. 

 

I'm disappointed to read Robbie's position is currently secure. If the first team squad have wind of that, it'll be interesting to see the performances, application and body language in the next three games that are effectively dead rubbers.

 

I can't answer you question - setting aside I'm a Hearts fan, I'm a bit more privy to how good the Academy is for the youngest age groups of players making the transition from small sided football to 11 a side. I hear some about how they're looked after, taught, coached, the approach to playing the game coaches try to instill, the long term vision and ambition of these coaches. To to answer your question, if I had a younger kid who was good enough, I would put them into that environment as it is the best possible start. Realistically, most kids that age won't make it, so for that I'd want them to have the best possible experience and reach their max potential. 

 

For me, its when the most promising kids get beyond age 16 things seem to stall. I don't think that's an exclusively Hearts problem, as you said elsewhere - clubs like Hamilton have a better record with young players at this age because their hands are forced, they don't have the budget to recruit as many tried and tested pros. My frustration with Hearts is we have access to facilities that are better than most of of our competitors, so we should be better for the most promising young players at around 16. That requires a first team coaching staff who are engaged with this thought. Levein (for all his many faults) I think was. Stendel absolutely was, you seen it on the occasions he got his team playing. Robbie, I don't see it.

 

As an aside, it saddens me to see Arnott's name being vilified by some on this thread along with John Murray. That couldn't be further from the truth, and shows an ignorance of Arnott's actual role. He's not a scout.

 

John Murray should be removed, along with the first team coaching staff, IMHO.

So bongo says Neilson will be here next season [may well be true] and you meekly accept that as a fact ?

What a strange place

[blairdin]

12 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

 

Unlikely to happen so long as JJ is advising the board considering it was him that appointed him in the first place.

 

In my opinion the reason that teams like Motherwell keep producing good young players is because they don't have the funds to bring in players such as Frear and Roberts as panic buys.

 

They obviously have a good youth set-up and when they have injuries and suspensions they are forced to play their young players and not just for a couple of games such as we do with the likes of Cochrane.

 

You can't expect a young player to step into the team and produce the goods straight away. They need continued game time to get to know the tempo of the game and fit in with their team-mates.

 

If they are allowed to do that then a decent assessment can be made on if they fit in or can make the grade.

 

Hamilton are another club who continually produce good young talenty and again they are often forced to play these players because they have no other options.

 

The answer at Hearts is to ensure that we have the talent in the younger age groups and have a policy of giving the most promising a chance and that instruction needs to come from the board down to the Coaches.

 

I think the priority this season was promotion and Robbie was tasked with achieving that which he did but from now on there should be clear instructions that we need to give our decent youth players a chance otherwise what is the point in having an Academy?

 

I like JJ, buy agree with all of that.

 

That instruction should be demanded from the top and fed down. 

 

However, in my view, it won't work currently as I don't think the first team coaching staff have either the bollocks, a consistent/coherant brand/style they want to play, or the ability to coach/improve/mould a young player in the first team squad into a useful player - the signing of Halliday, Roberts, Frear et all screams that to me.

[blairdin]

Just now, john thomas said:

So bongo says Neilson will be here next season [may well be true] and you meekly accept that as a fact ?

What a strange place

 

I have no idea if Bongo is right or not. He's entitled to his opinion though, and deserves respect for posting it.

 

I have no idea.

[Tasavallan]

12 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

I had a great sleep last night.

 

I didn't.  It is not a blast remaining sober. "Insomniac" is not for the CV.

[Byyy The Light]

3 hours ago, Tatlock said:

If I am reading this correctly, we should have used this season to blood promising youth players? In a squad full of low confidence underperforming experienced players, who would you trust to support those youths? The objective with youth development is to provide a structure in the first team that can allow the incoming youths to play their game in a nurturing and supportive environment, but neither the senior players nor the fans this season were in a position to provide positive support. You can’t have it both ways here, the team is crap and low on confidence, not to mention can’t be trusted to play their own game effectively so how can throwing youth into the mix help the team or the youth? This season was about getting promoted then getting the house in order to create a stable team and thus create a supportive environment to accommodate bringing in promising but properly equipped youth with less risk of having them dismissed as crap due to underperforming senior players. It takes time. The close season is where it starts so fingers crossed.

Was youth football also not shut down? So most of the youths wouldn’t be anywhere near match fit?

[maroonsgotop]

10 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

That is correct, but what I would argue was loaning Cochrane and Mcdonald out the correct decision?. 

 

They showed there worth against celtic, so sending them on loan, it doesn't make sense?. 

 

Not every youth player can make it I get that, but I would argue that they were never really given the chance have a look at the article, In fact here https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/ritchie-makes-hearts-pathway-jibe-22473480.amp&ved=2ahUKEwju6LWN8IPwAhVuQEEAHf-FAJgQFjAJegQIGRAG&usg=AOvVaw0Qt57I1a1WItgcd1NxquqS&ampcf=1. 

 

We have to create an environment, were youth players believe they can make it into the first team. 

 

 

Trouble is very few Academy players make it to their first team. An example of this is below from a BBC extract;

 

[Jambo in Bathgate]

3 hours ago, Tatlock said:

If I am reading this correctly, we should have used this season to blood promising youth players? In a squad full of low confidence underperforming experienced players, who would you trust to support those youths? The objective with youth development is to provide a structure in the first team that can allow the incoming youths to play their game in a nurturing and supportive environment, but neither the senior players nor the fans this season were in a position to provide positive support. You can’t have it both ways here, the team is crap and low on confidence, not to mention can’t be trusted to play their own game effectively so how can throwing youth into the mix help the team or the youth? This season was about getting promoted then getting the house in order to create a stable team and thus create a supportive environment to accommodate bringing in promising but properly equipped youth with less risk of having them dismissed as crap due to underperforming senior players. It takes time. The close season is where it starts so fingers crossed.

Absolutely. I think some are blinded by the young players in the 14/15 season. They had been well prepared the season before. To use young players this season in the same way would have been a disaster. We need to move on. Cochrane was one of these players who didn’t push on in my opinion. Take a look at Kalvin Phillips on Football focus he talks about the sacrifices he and his family made to become a top player. I don’t think Cochrane applied himself beyond his first season in first team and basically it is everyone else’s fault. 

[Nookie Bear]

10 minutes ago, Jambo in Bathgate said:

Absolutely. I think some are blinded by the young players in the 14/15 season. They had been well prepared the season before. To use young players this season in the same way would have been a disaster. We need to move on. Cochrane was one of these players who didn’t push on in my opinion. Take a look at Kalvin Phillips on Football focus he talks about the sacrifices he and his family made to become a top player. I don’t think Cochrane applied himself beyond his first season in first team and basically it is everyone else’s fault. 

Why would it be a disaster to give some game time to young players against Alloa etc?

[Tommy Brown]

3 hours ago, Bad Religion said:

It’s always the next transfer window, next season blah blah blah. Nothing will change with the current structure in place. 

You get the feeling it's the old, we will give RN the first quarter and decide.

Ad ****ing nauseum

 

We gave Cathro that and sacked him before the league even started.

Levein lasted to Oct.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Tommy Brown

[OTT]

11 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

That is correct, but what I would argue was loaning Cochrane and Mcdonald out the correct decision?. 

 

They showed there worth against celtic, so sending them on loan, it doesn't make sense?. 

 

Not every youth player can make it I get that, but I would argue that they were never really given the chance have a look at the article, In fact here https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/ritchie-makes-hearts-pathway-jibe-22473480.amp&ved=2ahUKEwju6LWN8IPwAhVuQEEAHf-FAJgQFjAJegQIGRAG&usg=AOvVaw0Qt57I1a1WItgcd1NxquqS&ampcf=1. 

 

We have to create an environment, were youth players believe they can make it into the first team. 

 

 

I know you’re getting it in the neck a bit on this thread but your last point about creating an environment where youth players genuinely believe they can make it through to the first team is so important. 
 

The academy should be front and centre of everything we do as a football club, how the academy plays is how the first team should be play. As ridiculous as it sounds, the first team should be secondary. The best quality players we can sign are pretty dog shit. Obviously exceptions to the rule are the likes of Gordon, Berra or Naismith but if these guys weren’t Scottish we’d not be getting them. Focusing more in on pushing our young talent into the first team will reduce our reliance on short term fixes. 
 

It’s going to take some effort and will be a bumpy road in the short term but the long term benefits of getting things right here are huge. 
 

The intention being that once our academy is genuinely producing talent we can use, then the first team will improve playing a style of football that is natural to the youngsters we are producing. Frankly have no idea how Levein pushes box soccer at youth level and hoof ball at senior level. It’s counter intuitive, especially if we’ve invested big into the academy. 

[Tasavallan]

1 hour ago, maroonsgotop said:

Trouble is very few Academy players make it to their first team. An example of this is below from a BBC extract;

 

 

This.   My lad was at Hearts Academy for a season and while at Hutchie also spent time at the academies of Aberdeen, St Johnstone and Falkirk.  At U12 to U14 most of the player were moved out.  It tended to be a conveyor belt of players from youth clubs.  At Falkirk it was clear that one player was the star for nurturing and all other players were just shirt fillers.  One player per year making it to the senior team is good going.

[Ari Gold]

How has he looked against Kilie? Any good or bad moments? 

[Mr Brightside]

3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

This is a problem. Although game time for academy products has been negligible this season it’s difficult to see who could have come in. 
 

But I felt we could have filled the bench with guys like Harry, Smith etc at New Year when the league was pretty much wrapped up. 

I agree but lack of reserve league and only 3 subs has made this more difficult.  The club decided to loan a lot of youngsters out to get more regular first team games than keep them here with no reserve football.

[Archie White]

I always thought that years ago, they should never have scrapped the old Scottish Reserve League. It was an ideal league to blood youth players so they could play alongside experienced older pros while still under the umbrella of their club. When lower league clubs take on board loanees, do they really coach them to the extreme they may be coached at by their main club? Why would the a coach of a lower league club bother too much with a loanee, - better to concentrate on your own players. Good luck to Harry. He's made the right decision for himself.

[NEWSTAND]

I hate being negative but Cochrane in my view did not get a real chance. I know he was injured but despite that it’s yet another obvious talent wasted by us. Can anyone really say he was worse than the utter garbage we have had over a good few years now in midfield.? Our academy has not really produced on a regular basis youngsters into the first team. Even when a youngster does get the chance it’s only in a cameo role and the no appearances with fans saying what happened to so and so I thought he was quite good. Given the facilities we as a club have which is the envy of most clubs something fundamentally wrong from top to bottom,

. 

 

[henryheart]

3 hours ago, The Maroon Pound said:

You can introduce young players when games are safe when the team is 3 or 4 up with 15/20 minutes to go, Robbie hasn't even done that this season 

Andy Irving and Euan Henderson are the only academy players that have been played although they have been introduced by Levein 

The point of concern is that Harry and Andy would rather leave the club, Why? 

You really have to go back to John McGlynn and Gary Locke introduced Patterson, Nicolson, King, Walker, McHattie, Brad Mackay,Jordan McGhee, Carrick and Jason Holt to get a group of youngsters 

Players do not come to Tynecastle to improve very few go onto bigger and better things 

Oh well more of the same old pish next season and also the Hearts Under 18s getting pumped 3-0 from Hibs yesterday? There coach should go with Neilson also! 

 

It is a difficult one. McGlynn was left with no option but to promote players from what had been a very successful under 19 team because the cup winning team had been dismantled due to the club's financial meltdown. It was a no win situation for him. Some supporters didn't see him as a sexy appointment, were blinded by Sergio's cup win which in reality was a day in the sun after what had been an otherwise poor season, and were calling for his head only weeks after his team of young boys had run Liverpool very close over 2 games.

 

A team of young players will lack consistency and Locke also suffered from this the following season, with some fantastic performances mixed in with a lot of struggles against streetwise opponents.

 

Unlike us, any manager we have is not in it for the long run; they need immediate results. McGlynn and Locke are often mocked on here for what on paper were unsuccessful managerial reigns after blooding young players, so it strikes me that Neilson cannot win on this. He had to get promotion. Could he have played more young players? In my opinion perhaps, but beyond Henderson and Irving, Lewis Moore was the only obvious candidate which shows that there is a lack of young talent at the club. That is not Neilson's fault and in that respect the club has let him down. He did not have the luxury of playing youngsters just for the sake of it - they had to deliver promotion.

 

As for Cochrane, that train left the station a couple of years ago heading backwards.    

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

13 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

If these players are as good as you think they are do you not think they would maybe be showing that at Montrose, etc, rather than sitting on the bench, given that they are playing against even more pish part time teams than the ones we’ve been playing against this season?  I blame Neilson for a lot of things but surely this is down to these players, whether it is their attitude or just that they are actually not that good?  Good coaching can’t make a Messi out of every young player. 
 

Given their age they might come good but they’re not looking like much of a loss at the moment. 

Its not as simple as that - if he’s good enough why can’t he cut it at Montrose?

 

The parent club ultimately has a responsibility to loan young players to a team that properly suits them with a manager who knows how to nurture young players and properly manage them.

 

I don’t know if it’s the same manager at Montrose as when Henderson went there but I understand that loan spell hindered him more than helped him - they simply didn’t play a style of football that suited him. That and the manager at that time was a right prick.

Edited April 17, 2021 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

Sending youth players out to clubs just to “toughen them up” is such a very Scottish thing to do....

[DH1986]

Just now, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

Sending youth players out to clubs just to “toughen them up” is such a very Scottish thing to do....

It’s also a very English thing to do.....just look at the amount of loanees that filter North each transfer window,

[Mikey1874]

12 hours ago, GinRummy said:

As I said, I’ve no doubt things could be better. I just don’t think you can argue that an individual player has been held back by the club. We do seem to bring in promising youngsters that never seem to progress, I agree. 

 

The formula that creates a good player from a promising youngster has some factors that are relatively clear. But some factors are not. 

 

The factors that do seem fairly consistent are playing games, then not playing too many games, being someone that really believes in himself, and not thinking they have made it. 

 

I agree with others that Cochrane suffered by the players signed for 2019/20. When Levein moved away from youth. Previous season he was injured. 

 

But then Aaron Hickey still came in late that season. He benefitted from whatever took place in the U20 squad totally away from the first team. He has a relatively strong personal attitude. He just plays games and isn't affected by any confidence issues. 

 

I still think we need to do more on getting players to believe in themselves. Whether that is a psychologist etc.. 

[tokyowalnut]

It is all very well saying Harry should have been given more of a chance, but we are not privy to what goes on at training. Attitude could have been poor, maybe big putting extra work in, be it technique or gym work. It can be a multitude of things, not always down to ability. 
 

It is a shame, he looked like he would be a great prospect when he came through. His size and build haven’t changed since he debuted, physically he is maybe just being left being.

[Don Dan]

Harry will be back of that I have no doubt and will run rings round the midfield and score a couple of screamers, against us. 

[Jambo in Bathgate]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

Why would it be a disaster to give some game time to young players against Alloa etc?

Henderson and Irving were given time during season as was Brandon. Other youngsters were given time in LC. However, our one focus was on reinstatement in one season. In 14/15 we were not expected to bounce back at first time of asking. Just imagine the comments on here if we had played younger players in league and had lost more games the vitriol is bad enough. Look at the negative comments about Irving and Henderson by some. Unfortunately Cochrane has not set the heather on fire at any of the loan periods. 

[BigAlim]

8 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I still think we need to do more on getting players to believe in themselves.

I don’t think that’s been an issue for the laddies that want to jump ship for greener grass, Irving for example should feel lucky to be part of the first team at hearts and realise that his performance needs to match his belief if he’s going to play at a higher level, can see these lads going the same way as McGhee, Adam King, McDonald etc. Decent move followed by the Inverness bench further down the line, whatever happens in their career will be someone else’s fault of course 

[Jambo in Bathgate]

4 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

Harry will be back of that I have no doubt and will run rings round the midfield and score a couple of screamers, against us. 

He will need a big change in attitude, and possibly a while away from Scotland. 

[Tom Hardy’s Dug]

20 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

It’s also a very English thing to do.....just look at the amount of loanees that filter North each transfer window,

All I can remember from our English loanees was chat about us managing to convince their parent club that our set up and style of play suited their players.

 

I don’t ever recall any English loanee pitching up here where the parent club had said he was being sent to Scotland to “toughen up”

Edited April 17, 2021 by Tom Hardy’s Dug

[Jambo in Bathgate]

16 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The formula that creates a good player from a promising youngster has some factors that are relatively clear. But some factors are not. 

 

The factors that do seem fairly consistent are playing games, then not playing too many games, being someone that really believes in himself, and not thinking they have made it. 

 

I agree with others that Cochrane suffered by the players signed for 2019/20. When Levein moved away from youth. Previous season he was injured. 

 

But then Aaron Hickey still came in late that season. He benefitted from whatever took place in the U20 squad totally away from the first team. He has a relatively strong personal attitude. He just plays games and isn't affected by any confidence issues. 

 

I still think we need to do more on getting players to believe in themselves. Whether that is a psychologist etc.. 

That is the issue. A lot of it like Hickey is down to self development . Wanting to be the best you can be and making personal sacrifices to be a top player. 

[DH1986]

9 minutes ago, Tom Hardy’s Dug said:

All I can remember from our English loanees was chat about us managing to convince their parent club that our set up and style of play suited their players.

 

I don’t ever recall any English loanee pitching up here where the parent club had said he was being sent to Scotland to “toughen up”

You think they were sent up here because Scotland is place where good football is played and the silky style of play is the perfect training camp for players ?
 

 

[Guest ToqueJambo]

15 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

Sounds like you’re blaming Harry Cochrane rather than Scott Brown, which is probably nearer the mark. 

 

Trying to give Cochrane the benefit of the doubt. But the thing that stood out when he first broke through was how confident and assured he looked on the ball - he put some of our more senior players to shame in that respect. That changed completely after his injury.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

44 minutes ago, Jambo in Bathgate said:

He will need a big change in attitude, and possibly a while away from Scotland. 

A head coach with talent might help too

[will-i-am-a-jambo]

1 hour ago, henryheart said:

 

It is a difficult one. McGlynn was left with no option but to promote players from what had been a very successful under 19 team because the cup winning team had been dismantled due to the club's financial meltdown. It was a no win situation for him. Some supporters didn't see him as a sexy appointment, were blinded by Sergio's cup win which in reality was a day in the sun after what had been an otherwise poor season, and were calling for his head only weeks after his team of young boys had run Liverpool very close over 2 games.

 

A team of young players will lack consistency and Locke also suffered from this the following season, with some fantastic performances mixed in with a lot of struggles against streetwise opponents.

 

Unlike us, any manager we have is not in it for the long run; they need immediate results. McGlynn and Locke are often mocked on here for what on paper were unsuccessful managerial reigns after blooding young players, so it strikes me that Neilson cannot win on this. He had to get promotion. Could he have played more young players? In my opinion perhaps, but beyond Henderson and Irving, Lewis Moore was the only obvious candidate which shows that there is a lack of young talent at the club. That is not Neilson's fault and in that respect the club has let him down. He did not have the luxury of playing youngsters just for the sake of it - they had to deliver promotion.

 

As for Cochrane, that train left the station a couple of years ago heading backwards.    

That's interesting about your chat on McGlynn, l think he was unfairly treated and l reckon if he had stayed on we would've won the League cup against St. Mirren. I suspect the board didn't want to keep him and it would've been impossible to replace him if he'd won the Cup and so set in motion the need to get rid of him before the final imo.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

8 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

A head coach with talent might help too

 

Only one managed to get the best out of him so far - Craig Levein, the one you hate the most.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

3 minutes ago, will-i-am-a-jambo said:

That's interesting about your chat on McGlynn, l think he was unfairly treated and l reckon if he had stayed on we would've won the League cup against St. Mirren. I suspect the board didn't want to keep him and it would've been impossible to replace him if he'd won the Cup and so set in motion the need to get rid of him before the final imo.

 

Agree about McGlynn. Fans were extremely critical of Locke as well, despite facing an even worse situation. He did remarkably well in the circumstances for me to keep those boys motivated through defeat after defeat and still pull some great results out of the bag against Aberdeen and of course Hibs. Winning more points than Hibs over the season was some achievement for me that Locke doesn't get enough credit for.

 

"Teaboy" was I think the derogatory name the "fans" who love to slag off every Hearts manager gave him.

Edited April 17, 2021 by ToqueJambo

[NB GIN]

On 16/04/2021 at 13:26, DG_HMFC said:

 

There's a difference between being big, strong and physical and being physically developed and strong. Cochrane hasn't developed physically.

Nonsense 

[will-i-am-a-jambo]

5 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Agree about McGlynn. Fans were extremely critical of Locke as well, despite facing an even worse situation. He did remarkably well in the circumstances for me to keep those boys motivated through defeat after defeat and still pull some great results out of the bag against Aberdeen and of course Hibs. Winning more points than Hibs over the season was some achievement for me that Locke doesn't get enough credit for.

 

"Teaboy" was I think the derogatory name the "fans" who love to slag off every Hearts manager gave him.

 

Yeah definitely agree what you are saying re Locke. He's a strange one though he did very well with the lack of resources at Hearts but he was a flop as a manager everywhere else. I suspect it was maybe the combination of coaching kids and being at Hearts that spurred him on to succeed! He's definitely a great coach though.

[sadj]

20 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Still people deluded to the fact, Levein quoted he was the most technically gifted midfielder, he has seen in a long time 🤔. 

 

Yet our club done hehaw with him 🤔, but it's Harry's fault 🤔even though the plan was to bring through youth players, but we signed rejects like Whelan, Nowak, Kitchen, 

 

And the list goes on and on?. 

 

Are our club responsible for anything these days?. 

 

Jesus , no like this place blames them for everything. Harry deserves criticism big time.

 

you really have become a very aggressive poster towards others recently. In between being Daniel Stendel’s PR man. 
 

[alwaysthereinspirit]

1 hour ago, Boy Daniel said:

Harry will be back of that I have no doubt and will run rings round the midfield and score a couple of screamers, against us. 

And that would be a good thing for Hearts and their fans. Or were we up 5-1 when he scored his two screamers?

[Tazio]

So reading through this thread

Cochrane hadn’t kicked on from his early displays 

This isn’t his fault

Or this is his fault (minority view)

He’ll come back to haunt us and it will be our fault

If he doesn’t it will be our fault 

 

This place is a hoot just now. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Tazio said:

So reading through this thread

Cochrane hadn’t kicked on from his early displays 

This isn’t his fault

Or this is his fault (minority view)

He’ll come back to haunt us and it will be our fault

If he doesn’t it will be our fault 

 

This place is a hoot just now. 

And of course, this is kickback so there has to be fault, it couldn't just be that despite best efforts he didn't develop into a top footballer like the vast, vast majority of young footballers with promise.

[King Of The Cat Cafe]

2 minutes ago, Tazio said:

So reading through this thread

Cochrane hadn’t kicked on from his early displays 

This isn’t his fault

Or this is his fault (minority view)

He’ll come back to haunt us and it will be our fault

If he doesn’t it will be our fault 

 

This place is a hoot just now. 

 

So, that might make Harry Cochrane the new Jason Cummings?

[Tazio]

1 minute ago, King Of The Cat Cafe said:

 

So, that might make Harry Cochrane the new Jason Cummings?

That would be optimistic. 

[Tazio]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

And of course, this is kickback so there has to be fault, it couldn't just be that despite best efforts he didn't develop into a top footballer like the vast, vast majority of young footballers with promise.

I’ve posted it on here many times before but I was at school with Darren Jackson. A good player but there were a few who were better. The difference was that from first year he was driven to be a professional, and when it didn’t happen he never stopped believing and got his break at Meadowbank. That type of mindset is essential if you want to get to where your ability says you should be.