Do Fans Expect Too Much?

[Nookie Bear]

6 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

That's the way I see it. He has delivered 2nd, 3rd, and never less than 4th place finishes which guarantees a crack at Europe and looks good to maintain that record despite their complaints.

Has everyone forgotten where they were before him? They finished 8th in the season before he joined and 9th in more than one season prior to that. They only escaped relegation one season due to league reconstruction. They didn't have a bigger budget than most of the league back then?

And I think they expect too much of their bigger budget. It's almost negligible in comparison to the budget advantage the OF have over them. And in fact so negligible they're simply shopping in the same market everybody else OF aside does.

In general They don't spend money any money at all on transfers. They shop in the freebie English league 1/2 market like everybody else and that's never going to be anything but hit or miss. Perhaps arguably more hit than miss while turning up the occasional good one.

Every season since McInnes arrived they have been losing their best players and the type of quality they lose isn't going to be replaced by English league 1/2 freebies. Yet despite that McInnes continued to consistently deliver these Euro spot league places. There is no 'next level' for them. McInnes has taken them to their ceiling and the only way they can go from there is potentially down.

They also claim he hasn't done well enough in Europe. Seriously? Ever seen the level of opposition that awaits in the Europa league 3rd qualifying round and then the play off round?

 

Take Rangers this season as an example. In the play off round they faced Galatasaray. A club with a squad value on transfermarkt in excess of £80 million while Aberdeen are rated around £11 million. Would any neutral observer really expect the sheep to overcome that?

This season they were beaten in the 3rd qualifying round by Sporting Lisbon. A club with a value transfermrkt value around £123 million. They can't seriously expect to be competing with that fielding league 1/2 freebies.

As others have said I hope they do lose McInnes because I know they have hit their ceiling and the only way for them to go from there is down. The next guy may not be so consistent as McInnes clearly is.

Well said. 
 

I still ******* despise them and their pathetic fans though. Playing that pot is one of the games I miss most about lockdown (oh, and the fact we are in a different league)

[Harry Potter]

12 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Well said. 
 

I still ******* despise them and their pathetic fans though. Playing that pot is one of the games I miss most about lockdown (oh, and the fact we are in a different league)

That big cup win ,1-0 Paterson, against them a few years back was superb, 3500 of them in the roseburn silenced, 

[JFK-1]

33 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Well said. 
 

I still ******* despise them and their pathetic fans though. Playing that pot is one of the games I miss most about lockdown (oh, and the fact we are in a different league)

 

I think everybody needs to view it with some perspective. Continuing with the sheep as an example they expect they should be easily beating say everybody in the bottom 6 both home and away. The reason being their bigger wage bill.

But at the same time they think they should be taking on the OF more competitively. Look at last seasons average SPL wage per player.
 

1. Celtic - £895,564

2. Rangers - £649,771

3. Aberdeen - £140,461

4. Hearts - £137,942

5. Hibernian - £119,700

6. Kilmarnock - £68,412

7. St Johnstone - £62,691

8. Motherwell - £59,304

9. Ross County - £55,574

10. St Mirren - £48,621

11. Livingston - £43,105

12. Hamilton - £41,154

They don' think say Ross County should be any competition for them at all. Cannon fodder because Ross County only pay around 40% what they do. Yet they can't see the other side of that argument?

Last season they were paying only around 16% what Celtic pay. But they're not then cannon fodder for Celtic using their very own logic? 

[Rudy T]

12 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Neilson v McInnes

p6

w3

d1

L2

 

So why would you swap them?

[JFK-1]

9 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

So why would you swap them?

 

I think most might accept McInnes if he could guarantee top 4 finishes as he has for the sheep.

[JimmyCant]

18 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

So why would you swap them?

Because their head to head over 6 games a few years ago isn’t a very relevant measurement for me

Edited February 18, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Bazzas right boot]

17 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

We should be capable to beat any team at home, Tynecastle is a fortress. 

 

Installing a winning mentality dave, any time Celtic, Rangers, Hibs, Aberdeen , at home we don't lose, draw at worse. 

 

In order to achieve this you need a manager that wants to outscore the opponents, 

 

Every other team at Tynecastle should take care of itself. 

 

Bring through a mix of youth, get the right financial backing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can beat anyone at home like celtic and Rangers-teams with many times our budget , but applying the same logic teams like well, killie Dundee etc will feel they can do that to teams like us at home. 

You can't use that logic to create a narrative then dismiss it when it works the other way. 

 

The logic you are applying can be applied to any club and then is relative to thier position. 

 

I don't think any manager has a philosophy of not out scoring thier opponent. 

 

Your last statement is also true for any club from real Madrid to Falkirk. 

 

 

 

[Rudy T]

49 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I think most might accept McInnes if he could guarantee top 4 finishes as he has for the sheep.

 

42 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Because their head to head over 6 games a few years ago isn’t a very relevant measurement for me

 

The Aberdeen fans want McInnes out because his football is boring and he bottles it in big games. The boring style gets levelled at Neilson and Neilson has the better head to head suggesting McInnes bottles it against us i.e a big game? Yet you'd have McIness over Neilson, that just doesn't make sense?

[gowestjambo]

20 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

We have the potential to challenge for the title, mentality isn't their but. 

 

Club like ours should have a clear way we play, what this does is attract players, that would like to play that style. 

 

Structure within the club has to be clear, genuinely upsets me talking about this stuff, so i won't go any further. 

I agree with this. A winning mentality should encompass all aspects of the Club from the top to the bottom. The old adage "Whether you think you can or cannot" - You are right! This sums up Hearts for me.

[SuperstarSteve]

Fans expect too much (in my opinion) Similar to first time fans wanted Robbie gone.
 

Aberdeen fans will be kicking themselves when they punt derek because nobody is achieving more than he has for them. 

I’ve spoken to handful and they always state he has taken them as far as he can and they need someone to take them that step further. Wrong, they have peaked as a club and can’t go any further.
The man has qualified for Europe nearly every single season for a decade. 
 

that’s as good as it gets for the likes of Aberdeen, ourself and hibs etc. The end game is qualify for Europe every season and winning the odd cup. Fans expecting to run the old firm close are living in cloud cuckoo land. 

I’m dreading neilson finishing 3rd/4th, as the reaction from fans last time will likely be the same. Demanding more, set us back 5 year last time and a hope to god it doesn’t happen again. 
4 seasons in charge, yet to finish below 3rd. Highest win/lose ratio of any manager in our history. Saying that I’m not as convinced this time around with Robbie in charge. See how it it unfolds next season. 
 
Next season top 6 minimum with top 4 being the aim is more than achievable. Then build from there to achieve regular top 4. As Aberdeen have done. Derek up until recently has sold his best players but kept the core and managed to stay best of the for rest for a decade straight. I hope he is sacked or walks. That gives us a better chance of becoming best of the rest again and being known as Scotland’s 3rd force. That is as good as it gets for us though. Which many jambos/dons/hibs fans disagree with and believe challenging for the league is possible. Which is fair enough everyone’s entitled to there opinion.

Massive rant that so apologies! I’m just a big believer in fans genuinely expect too much. Especially fans outside OF. 
 

[iwasthere1954]

On 17/02/2021 at 11:40, SectionDJambo said:

The “diddy tournament”, or Conference I think they are calling it, and the extensive qualification for the Europa Cup are just, in my opinion, forcing clubs to play the kind of fixture that was offered up by the Inter Toto Cup, which many clubs weren’t interested in.

The old days of Scottish clubs playing their first European fixture in September are long gone, along with any real prospect of making money out of drawing a glamour team. Scottish clubs have got to get lucky or be excellent to get to the stage of real financial gain.

We have been lucky to draw Spurs and Liverpool recently. Those games could easily have been against a little known team from the other side of Europe.

I think the day they decided to allow five teams from the "elite" leagues killed the champions league for every country outside that group. Has a team from outside that group won it during this time.

[Agentjambo]

Fans expect what has been possible before to be possible once again. 

[sandylejambo]

putting in effort is the least we expect, and in certain games we have not even had that. If the manager cant fix that then he's not a manager is he.

[jambonian]

Money has ruined football, it's that simple. McInnes has as poor a squad as he's had in the last few years. His players leave and others brought in are not the same level. Back in the 80s most players played the largest part of their careers at one club. Now they are off as soon as someone flashes some cash under their nose. Makes you wonder what the likes of McLeish & Miller or Narey & Hegarty would be worth in this day and age. European football was a regular thing for Hearts, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd back then. That's where we made most of our cash for transfers...on European runs. Now we can't get any further than qualifying rounds. When they scrapped the European Cup, Cup Winners Cup and UEFA Cup, the game was up for us lot. The joke competition that is the Champions League is for elite only. The UEFA league (or whatever it's called) is also diluted because clubs that don't qualify for Champions League drop into this one meaning there's even less chance of us lot qualifying. The joke Champions League should be for Champions of a country only. None of this 2nd, 3rd, 4th pish. Never watch it, haven't for about 15 years as it's of no interest. It's as well being cricket or tennis for all i care.

Aberdeen are suffering the same lack of cash as the rest of us. McInnes has done well to be as consistent as he has but even then, clubs need a refresh once in a while, i imagine Aberdeen's fans are at that stage. When you see that pish like Hibs are sitting in third you know that the quality of the league has dwindled. Outwith of Celtic & Rangers 2012, Hibs being as high as they are should be an embarrassment to Aberdeen or Hearts and may justify a manager being sacked, or walking as far as i'm concerned.

[TheBigO]

3 hours ago, SuperstarSteve said:

Fans expect too much (in my opinion) Similar to first time fans wanted Robbie gone.
 

Aberdeen fans will be kicking themselves when they punt derek because nobody is achieving more than he has for them. 

I’ve spoken to handful and they always state he has taken them as far as he can and they need someone to take them that step further. Wrong, they have peaked as a club and can’t go any further.
The man has qualified for Europe nearly every single season for a decade. 
 

that’s as good as it gets for the likes of Aberdeen, ourself and hibs etc. The end game is qualify for Europe every season and winning the odd cup. Fans expecting to run the old firm close are living in cloud cuckoo land. 

I’m dreading neilson finishing 3rd/4th, as the reaction from fans last time will likely be the same. Demanding more, set us back 5 year last time and a hope to god it doesn’t happen again. 
4 seasons in charge, yet to finish below 3rd. Highest win/lose ratio of any manager in our history. Saying that I’m not as convinced this time around with Robbie in charge. See how it it unfolds next season. 
 
Next season top 6 minimum with top 4 being the aim is more than achievable. Then build from there to achieve regular top 4. As Aberdeen have done. Derek up until recently has sold his best players but kept the core and managed to stay best of the for rest for a decade straight. I hope he is sacked or walks. That gives us a better chance of becoming best of the rest again and being known as Scotland’s 3rd force. That is as good as it gets for us though. Which many jambos/dons/hibs fans disagree with and believe challenging for the league is possible. Which is fair enough everyone’s entitled to there opinion.

Massive rant that so apologies! I’m just a big believer in fans genuinely expect too much. Especially fans outside OF. 
 

I know history, perspective, realism all that dictate, but I hate the term "best of the rest".  Same when we "split the old firm".

 

No one* is saying we need to achieve coming 1st or even second, what we're saying is we want ambition on and off the park.  Aberdeen haven't had it on the park under McInnes.  Even, best of the rest, if we go there.  The rest were regularly Livingston, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, St Johnstone etc.  And he's finished below a number of them over those seasons.  His teams never ever looked like they had the belief, the steal to grab the chance and go achieve something special.

 

Look, I get pragmatism, and by christ a whole massive section of our support need it in a big way, but football fans want hope more than anything.  The hope you might just be on to something special.  McInnes ain't a hopeful guy - he's a kind of steady hand.

 

We may have similar with Robbie.  We don't know yet really.  I'm all for seeing though.  I just hope he takes the shackles off and has a go.  "Lads, you are the best team in this league, go show the lot of them!"  We beat the rest and we take the OF on square goes when they come to our patch.  And dream.

 

*no one is totally the wrong term to use.  Some people are obviously mental, but I exclude them!

[JimmyCant]

5 hours ago, Rudy T said:

 

 

The Aberdeen fans want McInnes out because his football is boring and he bottles it in big games. The boring style gets levelled at Neilson and Neilson has the better head to head suggesting McInnes bottles it against us i.e a big game? Yet you'd have McIness over Neilson, that just doesn't make sense?

What are MCInnes stats in ‘big games’ compared to Robbie. What is McInnes track record of top league finishes compared to Robbie. How do their OF stats compare. McInnes is a proven all round better and more experienced manager than Neilson and anyone who wouldn’t take a swap (if it was available and affordable) is off their head IMO. So called ‘boring’ football is far more acceptable if your finishing top 4 all the time. Levein (1st time)got away with it for years because he could put wins on the board

 

In the only full season you can make any fair comparison Robbie finished 3rd behind McInnes in 2nd

Edited February 18, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Francis Albert]

6 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

Because their head to head over 6 games a few years ago isn’t a very relevant measurement for me

And we don't just play head to heads with one team.

 

[Francis Albert]

8 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I think everybody needs to view it with some perspective. Continuing with the sheep as an example they expect they should be easily beating say everybody in the bottom 6 both home and away. The reason being their bigger wage bill.

But at the same time they think they should be taking on the OF more competitively. Look at last seasons average SPL wage per player.
 

1. Celtic - £895,564

2. Rangers - £649,771

3. Aberdeen - £140,461

4. Hearts - £137,942

5. Hibernian - £119,700

6. Kilmarnock - £68,412

7. St Johnstone - £62,691

8. Motherwell - £59,304

9. Ross County - £55,574

10. St Mirren - £48,621

11. Livingston - £43,105

12. Hamilton - £41,154

They don' think say Ross County should be any competition for them at all. Cannon fodder because Ross County only pay around 40% what they do. Yet they can't see the other side of that argument?

Last season they were paying only around 16% what Celtic pay. But they're not then cannon fodder for Celtic using their very own logic? 

They finished where their wage bill would predict.

Hearts on the other hand ... yet we still whinge on about the injustice of our relegation (or demotion if you must.)

[JimmyCant]

24 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

And we don't just play head to heads with one team.

 

I’d be surprised if there are many head to heads against other clubs where RN has a better record than McInnes but it’s not a terribly fair comparison to be making 

[Rudy T]

3 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

What are MCInnes stats in ‘big games’ compared to Robbie. What is McInnes track record of top league finishes compared to Robbie. How do their OF stats compare. McInnes is a proven all round better and more experienced manager than Neilson and anyone who wouldn’t take a swap (if it was available and affordable) is off their head IMO. So called ‘boring’ football is far more acceptable if your finishing top 4 all the time. Levein (1st time)got away with it for years because he could put wins on the board

 

In the only full season you can make any fair comparison Robbie finished 3rd behind McInnes in 2nd

 

I don't see a huge difference between them tbh. They're very similar in style and approach. Neilson is likely to deliver top 6 finishes year on year, play similar players to McInnes' Aberdeen team, however he's probably a lot cheaper so I'd not swap. When Neilson goes I'd hope we're an established top 5 side again and his replacement is a Stendal type who has new ideas and can bring us a style of football we can enjoy more.

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

I don't see a huge difference between them tbh. They're very similar in style and approach. Neilson is likely to deliver top 6 finishes year on year, play similar players to McInnes' Aberdeen team, however he's probably a lot cheaper so I'd not swap. When Neilson goes I'd hope we're an established top 5 side again and his replacement is a Stendal type who has new ideas and can bring us a style of football we can enjoy more.

I’m not convinced that Neilson can deliver top six finishes year after year but in a way you are right. McInnes more likely IMO to deliver top six year after year then you have the same problem as Aberdeen fans, not accepting that it doesn’t get any better than 4th or 3rd. For me the big drawback and this applies to both is, neither has what it takes in their head to win in Glasgow and in general (one obvious exception apart) neither does consistently well in cups. By that I mean landing one every few years when the draw falls right.

[Rudy T]

5 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I’m not convinced that Neilson can deliver top six finishes year after year but in a way you are right. McInnes more likely IMO to deliver top six year after year then you have the same problem as Aberdeen fans, not accepting that it doesn’t get any better than 4th or 3rd. For me the big drawback and this applies to both is, neither has what it takes in their head to win in Glasgow and in general (one obvious exception apart) neither does consistently well in cups. By that I mean landing one every few years when the draw falls right.

 

I agree and that's why I wouldn't bother paying more to get much the same by taking McInnes. I think they're both a steady pair of hands but not that exciting. However like Aberdeen did 8 years ago we need a steady hand to get us back up the league and then we can look at what the next level is.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

We are playing against some utter tinpot clubs - Queen of the South had 3 registered first team players last summer. Alloa and Ayr are utter crap - we should be slaughtering them. 

[JFK-1]

35 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

We are playing against some utter tinpot clubs - Queen of the South had 3 registered first team players last summer. Alloa and Ayr are utter crap - we should be slaughtering them. 

 

That's football for you and not a problem limited to Hearts. Even rampant Rangers who after tonight look good to make the Europa league last 16 again aren't immune to it.

Their average player wage last season was £649,771 per year. Contrast that with Hamilton who pay an average £41,154 per year. Almost 16 times less than Rangers. The wage of a single average Rangers player could pay Hamilton's entire first 11 and bench too. 

Yet recently Rangers struggled to get a draw there and were actually only saved from defeat by an inspired goalkeeping display. Like I said, that's football.

[JFK-1]

And here's the unrealistic expectations of sheep fans on display on a sheep forum just today. They're speaking of McInnes.
 

Quote

Ach he stabilised the club back at respectability level initially, I'll credit him for that. But it's clear for years now that progress has stopped and the club is now tending to regression - you can argue for whatever reasons. 

The bottom line is he's a couple of years past the sell by date and AFC needs a clean out to get back to moving forward 

 

Moving forward? To what? It's definitely not going to be top 2. The consistent 3rd/4th they have is their limit.

But there's this constant palaver about going to 'the next level'. Get somebody else in and what will he do? Continue getting them 3rd/4th place? Maybe and maybe not. McInnes is proven.

[No Idle Talk]

I don't wish to put words into the mouths of Aberdeen fans but I would be very surprised if any sensible Aberdeen fan's gripe with Derek McInnes is the league positions they are finishing in. How could you reasonably be annoyed with that? As others have said, it is totally unrealistic for any Aberdeen fan to expect them to finish in the top two, so they are doing as well as they can do league wise.

 

I suspect the current unrest stems from two things. Aberdeen have lost out in five cup semi-finals and three cup finals under McInnes. Most of those losses have come at the hands of Celtic. So while it is probably unfair to hold that against McInnes, losing on the big stage on a number of occasions probably does turn some fans against you. The second thing, and the main thing in my view, is the style of football Aberdeen play under McInnes. It is not good to watch. It is pretty cagey stuff and goals are seldom free flowing. When McInnes first took over at Aberdeen the club had been underachieving for a while. So their supporters were probably willing to overlook the unexciting football in exchange for the upturn in results. This only ever lasts so long. There eventually comes a tipping point where fans get fed up watching their team play in a fashion that rarely gets them out of their seat. I think that is the point McInnes has reached now.

 

I know there are people on here who rubbish the whole 'style' thing. But it is real. It is not just Hibs fans who think about it or talk about it. Every club has supporters who want to feel some kind of excitement when they watch their team play. I know I do. 

 

My view on McInnes is that Aberdeen fans should think long and hard before trying to chase him from the club. The old adage 'be careful what you wish for, you might just get it' springs to mind. That said, I can completely understand why some of their supporters are fed up at the moment. If I had been watching 'McInnes ball' for nearly eight years, I'd probably be a bit weary of it too.

Edited February 19, 2021 by No Idle Talk

[gregzy2k7]

The way I see it is that if a team like livingston and or a st mirren can be up there challenging for 4th this season with the extremely limited resources that they have then Hearts should be challenging for 3rd even pushing for 2nd most seasons considering we gulf these teams in terms of resources and wages. Now i understand football doesn't quite work like that and if it did we would never have been relegated, however we absolutely should have high expectations as fans for our club or otherwise whats the point? If you never feel like your team can win anything, Livi this season have a chance to win a trophy and finish 4th (not going to lie but that would be an amazing season for us if we acheived that never mind them).

We should be up there at the top end of the league, I am absolutely fed up of us being 6th place or yoyoing the leagues, I think we all feel the same as fans, we expect and demand better from hearts and I'm afraid if robbie doesn't get us minimum top 4 next season i will be wanting him gone, No time for mediocrity any more.

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, No Idle Talk said:

I don't wish to put words into the mouths of Aberdeen fans but I would be very surprised if any sensible Aberdeen fan's gripe with Derek McInnes is the league positions they are finishing in. How could you reasonably be annoyed with that? As others have said, it is totally unrealistic for any Aberdeen fan to expect them to finish in the top two, so they are doing as well as they can do league wise.

 

I suspect the current unrest stems from two things. Aberdeen have lost out in five cup semi-finals and three cup finals under McInnes. Most of those losses have come at the hands of Celtic. So while it is probably unfair to hold that against McInnes, losing on the big stage on a number of occasions probably does turn some fans against you. The second thing, and the main thing in my view, is the style of football Aberdeen play under McInnes. It is not good to watch. It is pretty cagey stuff and goals are seldom free flowing. When McInnes first took over at Aberdeen the club had been underachieving for a while. So their supporters were probably willing to overlook the unexciting football in exchange for the upturn in results. This only ever lasts so long. There eventually comes a tipping point where fans get fed up watching their team play in a fashion that rarely gets them out of their seat. I think that is the point McInnes has reached now.

 

I know there are people on here who rubbish the whole 'style' thing. But it is real. It is not just Hibs fans who think about it or talk about it. Every club has supporters who want to feel some kind of excitement when they watch their team play. I know I do. 

 

My view on McInnes is that Aberdeen fans should think long and hard before trying to chase him from the club. The old adage 'be careful what you wish for, you might just get it' springs to mind. That said, I can completely understand why some of their supporters are fed up at the moment. If I had been watching 'McInnes ball' for nearly eight years, I'd probably be a bit weary of it too.

 

When McInnes first arrived they played better football, but had better players capable of doing so. The likes of Kenny McLean, Ryan Jack, and more who are all gone now and were never replaced quality wise.

This left McInnes in a situation of having no option to play anything other than this unattractive defensive hoofball if he were to maintain the league finishes they demanded.

If they want to play better football they need to give him the money to bring in better players. But that's not being happening and isn't going to so this is where they are. At their ceiling playing unattractive football.

There is a choice though. You want to see attractive football he can do that. But you wont be picking up so many points and may not get those top 4 finishes. Take your pick.

[JFK-1]

1 hour ago, gregzy2k7 said:

The way I see it is that if a team like livingston and or a st mirren can be up there challenging for 4th this season with the extremely limited resources that they have then Hearts should be challenging for 3rd even pushing for 2nd most seasons considering we gulf these teams in terms of resources and wages. Now i understand football doesn't quite work like that and if it did we would never have been relegated, however we absolutely should have high expectations as fans for our club or otherwise whats the point? If you never feel like your team can win anything, Livi this season have a chance to win a trophy and finish 4th (not going to lie but that would be an amazing season for us if we acheived that never mind them).

We should be up there at the top end of the league, I am absolutely fed up of us being 6th place or yoyoing the leagues, I think we all feel the same as fans, we expect and demand better from hearts and I'm afraid if robbie doesn't get us minimum top 4 next season i will be wanting him gone, No time for mediocrity any more.

 

I think sometimes some of the what we may term bigger clubs find themselves in a bit of decline it can be difficult to get out of. Take for example being landed with a bunch of players some of who were good but who are perhaps now aging along with perhaps others who are younger but turned out to be just not good enough.

Not good enough can happen frequently when you're shopping in the English league1/2 freebie market we all find ourselves in. They may look good in the English game but the Scottish game is considerably more physical and not all can adapt to that. It can be hit or miss and probably more miss than hit a lot of the time.

And what if these players are on relatively long contracts and unwilling to go? Then you can be stuck like that for a few years.

In the last season before McInnes came in the sheep finished 8th. In each of the 3 seasons prior to that they were 9th and only escaped relegation in one season because of league reconstruction.

I feel the league, OF aside, has to some extent seen a degree of levelling never experienced before. Due to the complete lack of transfer funds and everybody shopping in that exact same hit or miss market.

These same things have seen the OF who by comparison shop at Harrods pull further ahead of everybody else than ever before.

[gregzy2k7]

5 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

I think sometimes some of the what we may term bigger clubs find themselves in a bit of decline it can be difficult to get out of. Take for example being landed with a bunch of players some of who were good but who are perhaps now aging along with perhaps others who are younger but turned out to be just not good enough.

Not good enough can happen frequently when you're shopping in the English league1/2 freebie market we all find ourselves in. They may look good in the English game but the Scottish game is considerably more physical and not all can adapt to that. It can be hit or miss and probably more miss than hit a lot of the time.

And what if these players are on relatively long contracts and unwilling to go? Then you can be stuck like that for a few years.

In the last season before McInnes came in the sheep finished 8th. In each of the 3 seasons prior to that they were 9th and only escaped relegation in one season because of league reconstruction.

I feel the league, OF aside, has to some extent seen a degree of levelling never experienced before. Due to the complete lack of transfer funds and everybody shopping in that exact same hit or miss market.

These same things have seen the OF who by comparison shop at Harrods pull further ahead of everybody else than ever before.

You make a good point about the old firm shopping in harrods, I think they will both spend again in the summer and widen the gap more next season, my gripe with us though is we have sold more season tickets than pretty much everyone bar the old firm, Our fans pump 150k per month in through the foh and we probably contribute more than every other team outwith the old firm by a mile, i get that covid has an impact but surely hearts as a club could re-invest some of the amazing loyalty of our fans and spend a few bob on 2 or 3 high end quality signings in the summer no? Maybe I'm asking too much as the title suggests, I'm just frustrated and desperate to see us up the right end of the league doing well again, I mean we are the biggest club outwith the of by a good distance imo. Is it really too much to expect?

[JFK-1]

3 hours ago, gregzy2k7 said:

You make a good point about the old firm shopping in harrods, I think they will both spend again in the summer and widen the gap more next season, my gripe with us though is we have sold more season tickets than pretty much everyone bar the old firm, Our fans pump 150k per month in through the foh and we probably contribute more than every other team outwith the old firm by a mile, i get that covid has an impact but surely hearts as a club could re-invest some of the amazing loyalty of our fans and spend a few bob on 2 or 3 high end quality signings in the summer no? Maybe I'm asking too much as the title suggests, I'm just frustrated and desperate to see us up the right end of the league doing well again, I mean we are the biggest club outwith the of by a good distance imo. Is it really too much to expect?

 

Regarding the OF I would be more than surprised if both didn't recruit more multi million pound players in the Summer. Celtic because Rangers are better than them and Rangers because they will want to maintain their edge and have a real go at Champions League group stage qualification.

Regarding Hearts I think the sheep only keep in touch in a financial sense due to selling match day corporate services to the oil industry up there.

That will have somewhat crashed this season due to there being no crowds at matches. I presume they will be using the Cosgrove transfer fee to cover that loss.

Again regarding Hearts I really have no idea if Budge will be prepared to spend any significant money on quality recruitment. It would be nice if she did.

A 3rd place finish next season could potentially provide Euro group stage football and according to a sheep estimate a £4 million windfall from that.

There's going to be a real scrap to get that place and you would hope Hearts will be involved in the fight. The OF have to be favorites to take the top 2 spots, that's pretty much guaranteed.

And probably the Scottish cup too. Not so guaranteed but I feel likely. Thus if they do the guaranteed Euro group stage spot will go to whoever finishes third.

Given it wont be the OF whoever gets it is going to in SPL terms gain a significant financial edge. Be nicer to take the cup of course. Then there would be no question of the spot going elsewhere. Certainly makes the cup a far more valuable preposition.

But an even stronger OF than this season have to be competed with for that. Third spot does not. 

[jambonian]

Get the recruitment right and it makes it a lot easier. We've wasted far too much money on no-hopers and over-the-hillers for too long. Rather than signing another five or six players in summer who aren't good enough for their current club, how about signing two or three quality ones instead? The wages saved by not signing as many coupled with trimming another four or five off the wage-bill will even itself out somewhat. A smaller squad is also more helpful for introducing young players. I'd much rather we spent (just throwing a figure out there) £18k a week on three quality players on £6k a week than the same £18k a week on eight or nine players on £2k a week while bloating the squad not contributing. It also stops a space being available for a young player. It's all about a balance and for the last few years Hearts have not been a balanced side. Too many for certain positions, not enough for other positions. And it'll continue like this until someone takes the club by the boz and sorts the recruitment problems of the last few years out once and for all. 

[iwasthere1954]

18 hours ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

We are playing against some utter tinpot clubs - Queen of the South had 3 registered first team players last summer. Alloa and Ayr are utter crap - we should be slaughtering them. 

But it doesn't always work like that. Last week Hamilton v Rangers finished 1. I. Compared to Rangers Hamilton are crap but that's the way football works. 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

3 minutes ago, iwasthere1954 said:

But it doesn't always work like that. Last week Hamilton v Rangers finished 1. I. Compared to Rangers Hamilton are crap but that's the way football works. 

Yes there will always be the odd blip but we are nowhere near getting the results we should be getting with our resources. 

[iwasthere1954]

3 hours ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

Yes there will always be the odd blip but we are nowhere near getting the results we should be getting with our resources. 

Well we are getting the results. Were top of the league. However performances is another matter.

[Big Moysey]

Since 1985 the major league in Scotland has been won by 2 different clubs! For perspective, in England by 9, Italy 7, Germany 6 and Spain by 5.

So in 35 years in Scotland only Rangers and Celtic have won the League. Realistically now, our expectation is of winning the Scottish or League Cup and of finishing 3rd in the League. We are currently 10 league places below that.

In financial terms, though difficult to evaluate, we are well below the ugly sisters and imo are in the next 3. 

So that leaves style of performance and that is more subjective. Let's just agree that last weeks performance, as Ryan Stevenson quoted, was 'rubbish' and I would expect consistent performances like in our first match this season against Dundee. Not an unrealistic want!