Racial abuse of players

[fabienleclerq]

59 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Oh my God. You actually use South Africa to back up your views. The most racist country of the 20th century. And by racist I mean anti-black/brown racism. At least I now understand where you get your views from

 

He's used his personal experience surely and not the country as such.  

 

Racism is racism surely? Saying one is worse than the other doesn't help anyone or help eradicate it. 

 

I have family in South Africa, the opinion I get from them is that under Mandela it was about equality but since that white people are being disadvantaged.

Reggie Yates done a documentary on white people basically living in slums there,worth watching. 

 

 

[Malinga the Swinga]

Thank goodness twitter not around when I was younger. Now, its easier to just not use. Only thing I post on is this site.

[XB52]

For the hard of thinking, all racism is wrong end of story. But this thread is about the racist abuse of black footballers in England. If you want to start a whataboutery thread about the poor whites in south Africa then feel free to start one in the shed. Unless you have loads of examples of white footballers being racially abused in England.

[manaliveits105]

No racism here thankfully jkb is inclusive our grumpy posters and trolls will abuse any of our players and management no matter what age or colour they are - sometimes even before they have actually signed for us !

[JJ93]

42 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

He's used his personal experience surely and not the country as such.  

 

Racism is racism surely? Saying one is worse than the other doesn't help anyone or help eradicate it. 

 

I have family in South Africa, the opinion I get from them is that under Mandela it was about equality but since that white people are being disadvantaged.

Reggie Yates done a documentary on white people basically living in slums there,worth watching. 

 

 

Thanks mate. I would just ignore the other guy. He clearly isn’t fully rational. 

[Byyy The Light]

The problem with getting the tech companies to prevent it is that there is still no proof that the person who wrote the message is the owner of the account. You'd just get every charge resulting in the defence of "I left my phone lying in the pub".  Having said that, I agree the tech companies should be doing more, I just don't think that it's as simple as using ID to sign up and then charge them if they send a racist tweet.

 

Complex societal issue that isn't going to go away any time soon unfortunately. The more we seem to talk about it, the more the whataboutery lot get on their high horse.  Weird times when you've got the poorest people in the UK voting Tory and idolising Farage.  Depressing.

 

Happy Monday everyone.

[Harry Potter]

11 hours ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

When they get fans back in the stadiums I reckon there’ll be substantial boos for the weekly “take a knee”. Will be ugly scenes 

Ugly scenes, doubt that tbh.

[fabienleclerq]

2 minutes ago, JJ93 said:

Thanks mate. I would just ignore the other guy. He clearly isn’t fully rational. 

 

Probably sound advice. 

 

[XB52]

14 minutes ago, JJ93 said:

Thanks mate. I would just ignore the other guy. He clearly isn’t fully rational. 

Still waiting on examples of white players being racially abused in England. 

[A_A wehatethehibs]

18 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Ugly scenes, doubt that tbh.

Already happened at Millwall and that was only 2k fans. 

[Harry Potter]

Just now, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Already happened at Millwall and that was only 2k fans. 

Cheers bud, i was wrong.

[Heartsofgold]

5 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

Already happened at Millwall and that was only 2k fans. 

Aye, MILLWALL.  The bastion of racial harmony and tolerance!!

[JimmyCant]

1 hour ago, John Findlay said:

Jimmy, I'm going to disagree with you here. It is your place to name and shame, as it is all our places.

It's because they are not shamed and named that they continue and get away with it.

I know it's the old I am not a grass etc etc.

The bottom line is these people should be grassed.

John

 

I’d be quite happy to call him out and did at the time. The post was removed within minutes. Naming him again I think would be against the rules. I was a little surprised that he was allowed to remain here but the mod team will no doubt have had their reasons which I’m not privy to and therefore not criticising.

 

I am not bothered about being labelled a grass for stuff like this, in fact he’s a lucky boy that I’d didn’t report it elsewhere or he’d have had a knock on his door by now.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

John

 

I’d be quite happy to call him out and did at the time. The post was removed within minutes. Naming him again I think would be against the rules. I was a little surprised that he was allowed to remain here but the mod team will no doubt have had their reasons which I’m not privy to and therefore not criticising.

 

I am not bothered about being labelled a grass for stuff like this, in fact he’s a lucky boy that I’d didn’t report it elsewhere or he’d have had a knock on his door by now.

👍

[A_A wehatethehibs]

18 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

Aye, MILLWALL.  The bastion of racial harmony and tolerance!!

My original point was that I don’t think millwall would be an isolated case once fans get back in. Unless you think a small pocket of east London is the only racists in the country? Got news for you, Millwall is just one snapshot of an entire underclass in England that numbers in the millions, the white working class. The most disadvantaged group in our society across all metrics is white working class boys. 
 

Obviously this type of behaviour almost certainly won’t happen in Scotland (edit - no, I know there’ll be a number cases) as we’re more of a fly on the wall when it comes to modern day racial tensions in England. The Scottish view on racism is a bit irrelevant in a way, because we haven’t really had the same experience of multiculturalism as, for example, East Londoners. Millwall fans on the other hand, have had the first hand experience of becoming an ethnic minority in their own home city. So as a result yes, they’re frequently a lot more racist, however it’s a very complex issue and labelling them scum / demonizing the white working class is actually a major part of the toxic cycle of racism. Does nothing to de escalate things. 

Edited February 1, 2021 by A_A wehatethehibs

[Heartsofgold]

2 minutes ago, A_A wehatethehibs said:

My original point was that I don’t think millwall would be an isolated case once fans get back in. Unless you think a small pocket of east London is the only racists in the country? Got news for you, Millwall is just one snapshot of an entire underclass in England that numbers in the millions, the white working class. The most disadvantaged group in our society across all metrics is white working class boys. 
 

Obviously this type of behaviour almost certainly won’t happen in Scotland as we’re more of a fly on the wall when it comes to modern day racial tensions in England. The Scottish view on racism is a bit irrelevant in a way, because we haven’t really had the same experience of multiculturalism as, for example, East Londoners. Millwall fans on the other hand, have had the first hand experience of becoming an ethnic minority in their own home city. So as a result yes, they’re frequently a lot more racist, however it’s a very complex issue and labelling them scum / demonizing the white working class is actually a major part of the toxic cycle of racism. Does nothing to de escalate things. 

100% agree with all your saying A A.  

 

I know a member of our own support who was a member of the National Front and C18 for a while.  And I mean a card carrying, bovver booted skinhead in his younger years.  Tats, the lot.  That all changed when he fell for a truly amazing coloured girl who, somehow, managed to see past the crap he's been fed all his life to that point and which had shaped his particular view of the world.  He fell for her in a big big way and she did the same.  It made him question everything rotten he'd been force fed by others and he changed his life completely.  He now loves in London and does amazing charity work with interracial groups getting others out of the 'life' and has 4 kids with the same girl.  Sometimes a leopard can change it's spots.

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

100% agree with all your saying A A.  

 

I know a member of our own support who was a member of the National Front and C18 for a while.  And I mean a card carrying, bovver booted skinhead in his younger years.  Tats, the lot.  That all changed when he fell for a truly amazing coloured girl who, somehow, managed to see past the crap he's been fed all his life to that point and which had shaped his particular view of the world.  He fell for her in a big big way and she did the same.  It made him question everything rotten he'd been force fed by others and he changed his life completely.  He now loves in London and does amazing charity work with interracial groups getting others out of the 'life' and has 4 kids with the same girl.  Sometimes a leopard can change it's spots.

A ‘coloured’ girl ? Does he refer her to her as that ?

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

A ‘coloured’ girl ? Does he refer her to her as that ?

Drop the political correctness mate.  She's black OK.  Clear enough for you.  She identifies herself as a black human being, and she's an amazing one at that.

[JimmyCant]

2 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

Drop the political correctness mate.  She's black OK.  Clear enough for you.  She identifies herself as a black human being, and she's an amazing one at that.

Take a step back mate and go and look up the connotation of the word ‘coloured’ . It’s not a PC issue, it’s about as racially offensive as you can get, you’d be as well using the n word

[Sow Easy]

Folk quick to jump at 'but what about teh white razism!!!' are forgetting the centuries of whites lording it over black people, massive inequality, prejudice, discrimination, lynchings, beatings etc. White folk have had none of that, they have always held the power in society and therefore 'white racism' doesn't have nearly the same societal impact or power dynamic. Pure whataboutism at its worst. 

[Heartsofgold]

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Take a step back mate and go and look up the connotation of the word ‘coloured’ . It’s not a PC issue, it’s about as racially offensive as you can get, you’d be as well using the n word

The please school me, what's the current PC word of choice?  I identify her as human and a close friend.  Her skin colour means nothing to me at all.  I typed that to give my post context, and don't ever call me a racist agin.

[Wee Mikey]

8 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

A ‘coloured’ girl ? Does he refer her to her as that ?

 

3 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Take a step back mate and go and look up the connotation of the word ‘coloured’ . It’s not a PC issue, it’s about as racially offensive as you can get, you’d be as well using the n word

It's absolutely normal for brown girls to refer to themselves as just that. No, I'm not being either racist or provocative and have no agenda; merely factual. If you doubt my word then just ask Poppy and Rubina (and note their 2020 British Broadcast Awards Gold Award). 👍

[Mister T]

Beggars belief. I take it these people don't celebrate when a black player scores for them? 

[Sow Easy]

3 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

The please school me, what's the current PC word of choice?  I identify her as human and a close friend.  Her skin colour means nothing to me at all.  I typed that to give my post context, and don't ever call me a racist agin.

He's right though. 

 

Educate yourself. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/newsbeat-30999175

[Sow Easy]

2 minutes ago, Wee Mikey said:

 

It's absolutely normal for brown girls to refer to themselves as just that. No, I'm not being either racist or provocative and have no agenda; merely factual. If you doubt my word then just ask Poppy and Rubina (and note their 2020 British Broadcast Awards Gold Award). 👍

Black people also refer to themselves and each other as the N word, doesn't mean non-black people can do the same. 

[Wee Mikey]

Just now, Sow Easy said:

Black people also refer to themselves and each other as the N word, doesn't mean non-black people can do the same. 

Classic double standards ignoring context and intent.

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, Sow Easy said:

He's right though. 

 

Educate yourself. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/newsbeat-30999175

Fair points but still, the PC culture is ridiculous. Agreed though, we are all coloured.

[Sow Easy]

Just now, Wee Mikey said:

Classic double standards ignoring context and intent.

Good way to out yourself. If you can't see the difference between a white person saying that word to a black person and black people saying it to each other, then there's no hope. 

[Wee Mikey]

Just now, Sow Easy said:

Good way to out yourself. If you can't see the difference between a white person saying that word to a black person and black people saying it to each other, then there's no hope. 

Don't make me laugh. Talk about over-simplifying an issue. I'm off to listen to the Brown Girls Podcast. Am I not allowed to say that? 😆

[grumpyespana]

I think the press & TV companies are not helping the cause as they are ramming this black lives matter for about a year down our throats specially in England where there are large black populations, whats the answer the first thing I would do is keep it low key in the press & TV not like we need more coloured people on television that angers white people personally I have no problems with black people we should all live in harmony but this will not happen in parts of the UK guys.

[Boris]

Interesting thread.

 

One could make the case that due to this recent spate of racially motivated abuse aimed at footballers, taking the knee before kick off is even more relevant!

 

 

[ToadKiller Dog]

18 minutes ago, Mister T said:

Beggars belief. I take it these people don't celebrate when a black player scores for them? 

As long as the the ethic minority player knows his place then the racist mind sees it as fine to cheer ,but if that player gets a bit upity and ideas beyond his station like Rashford or one from the opposition dares to over celebrate his goal against their team thats just not on.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JimmyCant]

27 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

The please school me, what's the current PC word of choice?  I identify her as human and a close friend.  Her skin colour means nothing to me at all.  I typed that to give my post context, and don't ever call me a racist agin.

‘Coloured’ is related to slavery, segregation in America and apartheid. An offensive term used to describe and attach a label to a lesser type of human who was only lesser because they were not white. I didn’t call you a racist but in your ignorance you used a racist term.

Edited February 1, 2021 by JimmyCant

[Heartsofgold]

4 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

‘Coloured’ is related to slavery, segregation in America and apartheid. An offensive term used to describe and attach a label to a lesser type of human who was only lesser because they were not white. I didn’t call you a racist but in your ignorance you used a racist term.

Then I apologise.

[Ainsley Harriott]

There are 2 types of racists at Tynecastle the outwardly and dont care if people know then, there's the subconsciously racist that wouldnt say they were but dream of a team full oh white scottish laddies. They are usually the ones that turn on ethnic minority players quickly but think the likes of Andy Halliday and Naismith are the bees knees.

[Ainsley Harriott]

5 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

Then I apologise.

Weirdly though it is ok to say people of colour.

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, Ainsley Harriott said:

There are 2 types of racists at Tynecastle the outwardly and dont care if people know then, there's the subconsciously racist that wouldnt say they were but dream of a team full oh white scottish laddies. They are usually the ones that turn on ethnic minority players quickly but think the likes of Andy Halliday and Naismith are the bees knees.

Some of the things I've heard at Tynecastle through the years have made me want to puke.

[JimmyCant]

Just now, Heartsofgold said:

Then I apologise.

There’s no need to apologise mate. It’s simply a matter of finding out how people want to be identified. Terms that were ‘acceptable’ in more ignorant and less tolerant times were and are deeply divisive and offensive. I’m not being patronising here but maybe you should ask her.

[Heartsofgold]

Just now, Ainsley Harriott said:

Weirdly though it is ok to say people of colour.

Exactly.  Context and PC Pish.  I will admit that the term 'coloured; has negative conotations for many people of colour but was only trying to provide context and then get schooled.

[Sow Easy]

1 minute ago, Heartsofgold said:

Exactly.  Context and PC Pish.  I will admit that the term 'coloured; has negative conotations for many people of colour but was only trying to provide context and then get schooled.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-dahleen-glanton-colored-email-reading-list-20200304-utx7geiwm5hupa3t7w6xr3xqn4-story.html%3foutputType=amp

 

These things are very easy to find out instead of just screaming about 'PC pish'. 

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, JimmyCant said:

There’s no need to apologise mate. It’s simply a matter of finding out how people want to be identified. Terms that were ‘acceptable’ in more ignorant and less tolerant times were and are deeply divisive and offensive. I’m not being patronising here but maybe you should ask her.

The thing is Jimmy, my friend, who is of Seneglaese decent and therefore very clearly black, has no issue with being referred to as coloured BUT I do take on board that not all people have the same acceptance and that the depth of feeling is varying to say the least.

 

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, Sow Easy said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagotribune.com/columns/dahleen-glanton/ct-dahleen-glanton-colored-email-reading-list-20200304-utx7geiwm5hupa3t7w6xr3xqn4-story.html%3foutputType=amp

 

These things are very easy to find out instead of just screaming about 'PC pish'. 

No.  That's American Culture and there is a deep seated racism in that country that does not translate to the UK.  Our racism is, in general, more subtle and class driven to a certain extent.

 

Answer me this:  If 'Coloured' is a racist term given the fact that we are all 'coloured' then how is the term 'a person of colour' any less racist and culturally acceptable.  To me there is no difference in either term and it's all about context.  To me, we are all human and deserving of each others respect. Anything else is PC, whitewashing pish.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

17 hours ago, Swanny17 said:

Think it’s 4 reports I’ve read in the last week alone of racial abuse being directed at football players on social media which is absolutely shameful.

 

How do the authorities, both the police and in football, begin to put an end to this kind of sub-human behaviour? 
 

Can and should clubs be doing more? 
 

One thing that needs to change quickly is the introduction of far more severe punishment for those found guilty of such conduct.

 

So depressing that this behaviour still exists. 😡

 

One of the things that can be done - it’s no solution to the wider problem but as an immediate difference - is to make Twitter/Instagram/Facebook answer for he fact that people can post racially abusive messages with impunity. These companies have their cake and eat it. Massive enterprises which take next to no responsibility for anything. Bookies make you confirm your ID before you sign up. If social media firms wanted you to, they could do the same - but they’d rather not lose millions of accounts.

 

As for racism, all you can do is keep fighting the good fight. Unfortunately there will always be degenerates who stood to it.

[Sow Easy]

7 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

No.  That's American Culture and there is a deep seated racism in that country that does not translate to the UK.  Our racism is, in general, more subtle and class driven to a certain extent.

 

Answer me this:  If 'Coloured' is a racist term given the fact that we are all 'coloured' then how is the term 'a person of colour' any less racist and culturally acceptable.  To me there is no difference in either term and it's all about context.  To me, we are all human and deserving of each others respect. Anything else is PC, whitewashing pish.

Because collectively, that is how non-White have chosen to classify themselves, and we should respect that. It's far from a perfect term, and there are a many black people who hate the term but until something comes along to replace it, it's the preferred wording. 

[Heartsofgold]

1 minute ago, Sow Easy said:

Because collectively, that is how non-White have chosen to classify themselves, and we should respect that. It's far from a perfect term, and there are a many black people who hate the term but until something comes along to replace it, it's the preferred wording. 

The only way to remove and kill racism stone dead is if we stop putting ourselves into racial catagories.  We are human.  End of. 

 

The white mans past is shameful no doubt, and it is right that it be acknowledged and accepted as such but I didn't own slaves or treated my fellow man like cattle to be sold and killed. 

 

As a (human) race we have more problems to contend with right now than the colour of the skin of the man or woman beside you.

[Bull's-eye]

There would be racial abuse on here if it wasn't moderated, you can be 100% sure of that.

 

The abuse of our owner, manager and players is fair game though.

 

Strange place the interweb.

[Sow Easy]

2 minutes ago, Heartsofgold said:

The only way to remove and kill racism stone dead is if we stop putting ourselves into racial catagories.  We are human.  End of. 

 

The white mans past is shameful no doubt, and it is right that it be acknowledged and accepted as such but I didn't own slaves or treated my fellow man like cattle to be sold and killed. 

 

As a (human) race we have more problems to contend with right now than the colour of the skin of the man or woman beside you.

As this thread proves, we are a long, long way from living in that world, and until we reach that point, terms like POC and organisations like BLM will continue to exist and you or I don't get to dictate when we reach that point. You can either recognise that and play your part til we get to the point of the person next to you's skin colour truly not mattering, or fight against it. Up to you. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, milky_26 said:

they will have the ability but if they start to mas ban people their user numbers will plummet and that would affect their share price. That for them is the important thing, their value and money rather than their moral duty to help in the fight against racism

 

Whilst hiding behind the freedom of speech mantra (unless of course it's someone who doesn't agree with their views) then they'll ban him or her at the drop of a hat. Geeky wankers the lot of them. 

[JamboAndrew]

In China all people need to register their social media accounts with their citizen numbers. (Put aside the obvious here)

 

But, if anonymity was removed and people had to take responsibility for what they posted and it could easily be seen by either all, or just the authorities, then many would think again about some of the total nonsense they post.

 

I grew up being told I should take responsibility for my actions and believe in it. Unfortunately the social media sites give people anonymity. Fines for racism and other nonsense for wither the poster or the social media platform and you'll see the problem vanish very quickly.

 

The woke folk will complain. But I'd rather that than the current rubbish we are seeing posted.

[OmiyaHearts]

I noticed on the twitter Gervane announcement, some Jambo called Elliott Smith says 'Hope he's not another Danny Amankwa'. 

 

To me, that's racism. We've had plenty of shite wingers since Danny left. Why not say 'he better not be another Advidaj, or another Morrison'.

 

People are dicks.