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Pasquale for King
9 hours ago, R1874 said:

Popescu signed... Hamilton out on loan? 
 

Frear and Roberts signed...Henderson on bench and Moore disappeared? 
 

Irving not getting a game when Lee and Halliday have been poor

 

Give the lads a chance to either succeed or fail.

 

For example, Porteous will be at Edinburgh City in a few years but least he was given the chance 

Macdonald and Morrison shipped out too, no intention of playing the youngsters who are no worse than those that are playing. In fact Irving is better in an attacking sense than the others but not as good as defensively, which tells you all you need to know. Levein in disguise. 

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Pasquale for King

Considering the chance he was given himself as a youngster,and not a great one at that, he’s got a ****ing cheek binning these youngsters for journeymen like Frear etc. 

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Darren Murray was a huge influence in developing Paterson, Walker , Nicholson , King , etc etc .

Darren now runs Box Soccer in Midlothian and at Riccarton .

I don’t see how Box Soccer can be to blame when it concentrates in control, touch , vision , passing etc . 
 

People have blamed John Murray , Roger Arnott , Craig Levein , John Colquhon and Ann Budge !! 
 

Take your pick... 

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jack D and coke
13 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Have players there, that could be good players, like Irving, Henderson, but Robbie would rather play Frear, Roberts, etc 

I don’t see anything in Henderson, he will never make it for me. Miles short of anything that makes a quality footballer. He’s neat and tidy enough but produces absolutely nothing. 
Ive never seen so many one paced players than in this Hearts team atm. Literally no one with anything even resembling pace in any position other than Ginnely and the more he’s out of the team the more important he appears and better he seems to be getting by the week. 
 

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3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

I don’t see anything in Henderson, he will never make it for me. Miles short of anything that makes a quality footballer. He’s neat and tidy enough but produces absolutely nothing. 
Ive never seen so many one paced players than in this Hearts team atm. Literally no one with anything even resembling pace in any position other than Ginnely and the more he’s out of the team the more important he appears and better he seems to be getting by the week. 
 

The problem we have with fast players is that they do nor appear to have much footballing ability eg Roberts, Frear etc cannot pass a ball let alone a full back.  We let Mulraney go for much the same reason and probably our fastest player now is Brandon who cannot get into the team.  I would not quibble too much that he is not picked at FB but is it not worth a try moving him into MF in games where we have nothing to lose.  Mind you, he might need clear instructions not to get booked.

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Guys like Irving, McGill and Henderson can only improve by playing more regularly than they do. I've not seen much from Frear or Roberts to suggest they offer anything more than these young lads. This league is full of teams that have signed a few experienced players that are seeing out their careers and playing them alongside up and coming young players that are pacy and have loads of stamina and can run for 90 minutes.  Our team is full  of journeymen that just seem to be here for the pay packet,  and they are keeping the more promising youngsters from progressing.

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On 28/11/2020 at 19:17, gashauskis9 said:

The players are there, Robbie chooses not to use them.  
 

We loan players out to this level, but when they come back to us we refuse to play them against teams at this level!  Baffling. 

 

Thats it exactly. 

 

We had moore who ended the season well and Morrison who now looks like a player that could cut that level no worries. Instead we brought in two journeyman who are looking like poor players. 

 

Ironically it was actually an out and out striker we needed not more wingers. 

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Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine

We really struggle to bring through athletic young players, and then our managers don't give the young players we do bring through a chance in the first team as they're not physical enough. It's no secret that physicality is a requirement for success in the Scottish game, so why do all the players we bring through seem to be so lacking in this department?

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16 minutes ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

We really struggle to bring through athletic young players, and then our managers don't give the young players we do bring through a chance in the first team as they're not physical enough. It's no secret that physicality is a requirement for success in the Scottish game, so why do all the players we bring through seem to be so lacking in this department?

Becasue they are kids. Go and look at pics of Kieran Tierney when he 1st came into the Celtic team and look at him now.  Now he is a grown up, his bones have grown to capacity so the muscles can now build. This just plays to the big, physical unit argument. Look at Grear, Roberts, full grown men yet cant cope with the football, not becasue of their physique becasue they arent good enough footballers. This physical thing is a myth, if you have a football brain then you are going to be bale to cope with physicality becasue you know its coming and you can ensure you dont get hurt. I am not saying that players shouldnt be strong but they need to fill out their bodies first then they become physical...

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Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine
6 minutes ago, Naisysback said:

Becasue they are kids. Go and look at pics of Kieran Tierney when he 1st came into the Celtic team and look at him now.  Now he is a grown up, his bones have grown to capacity so the muscles can now build. This just plays to the big, physical unit argument. Look at Grear, Roberts, full grown men yet cant cope with the football, not becasue of their physique becasue they arent good enough footballers. This physical thing is a myth, if you have a football brain then you are going to be bale to cope with physicality becasue you know its coming and you can ensure you dont get hurt. I am not saying that players shouldnt be strong but they need to fill out their bodies first then they become physical...

 

You could always tell Tierney was a top athlete though, always had elite balance and stamina, allowing him to make up for being small as a youngster, much like how Hickey is able to play in Serie A despite being small. It's not just about being big, its about possessing physical attributes that are important to be a good footballer, and some of that does come down to body type and genetics, but the players we bring through are always lacking in this department and it stunts their development opportunities in the first team.

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1 minute ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

You could always tell Tierney was a top athlete though, always had elite balance and stamina, allowing him to make up for being small as a youngster, much like how Hickey is able to play in Serie A despite being small. It's not just about being big, its about possessing physical attributes that are important to be a good footballer, and some of that does come down to body type and genetics, but the players we bring through are always lacking in this department and it stunts their development opportunities in the first team.

Most of the time the players we bring in are 16\17, still 3-4 years away from being ready to build the type of physique you see on players now. What is much more important is balance, vision, ability to make the right decision and more importantly a management team that are willing to develop you as a plyer. That is where we have let our youngsters down.

 

2 years agoe we had the best 2 young players in the country so what did the management do, bring in 30players in 2 transfer windowns and block their path. RN done pretty much the same, filled the team with experienced pro's...some were already there and he has brought in some who to be fair are awful.

 

I watched Cochrane\McDonald at 16 play at Celtic Park, Ibrox, Easter Rd, Pittodrie and I struggle to think of a game they wee bullied out of...reason is they had the things I mentioned previously. We have lost 1 of them and the other will goin the Summer without a doubt...that is the problem..not the academy not producing but management not having faith. Look at Mtherwell, Aberdeen, St Mirren, Hamilton, Dundee, ICT all playing young players every week but managing them well.....

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Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine
5 minutes ago, Naisysback said:

Most of the time the players we bring in are 16\17, still 3-4 years away from being ready to build the type of physique you see on players now. What is much more important is balance, vision, ability to make the right decision and more importantly a management team that are willing to develop you as a plyer. That is where we have let our youngsters down.

 

2 years agoe we had the best 2 young players in the country so what did the management do, bring in 30players in 2 transfer windowns and block their path. RN done pretty much the same, filled the team with experienced pro's...some were already there and he has brought in some who to be fair are awful.

 

I watched Cochrane\McDonald at 16 play at Celtic Park, Ibrox, Easter Rd, Pittodrie and I struggle to think of a game they wee bullied out of...reason is they had the things I mentioned previously. We have lost 1 of them and the other will goin the Summer without a doubt...that is the problem..not the academy not producing but management not having faith. Look at Mtherwell, Aberdeen, St Mirren, Hamilton, Dundee, ICT all playing young players every week but managing them well.....

 

100% the biggest issue is the lack of playing time for young players, I would much rather watch a team of younger players fail than a bunch of journeyman huddies fail. The problem is every manager knows they're a few bad results away from the sack at all times, so they generally won't take risks letting young players develop. There needs to be a serious change of strategy in recruitment and young players have to play every week. Otherwise we're just going to go round in circles.

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1 minute ago, Juho_Makela_Goal_Machine said:

 

100% the biggest issue is the lack of playing time for young players, I would much rather watch a team of younger players fail than a bunch of journeyman huddies fail. The problem is every manager knows they're a few bad results away from the sack at all times, so they generally won't take risks letting young players develop. There needs to be a serious change of strategy in recruitment and young players have to play every week. Otherwise we're just going to go round in circles.

Very true. I always thought the SPFL should force the clubs t play 2 home grown u21s in ther team every week, not squad players but actually in the side. That focusses them on developing young players and if they do it right it makes the club money. 

 

I understand the pressures the managers are under but what I have seen is young players very rarely tend to let you down. They have belief in themselves and tend to play with no fear...as they get older that waines a bit, maybe becasue they think they are better than they really are...Roerts, Frear, Ginnelly, Amankwa, Milinkovic, Mulraney...the list goes on and on...

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I think with young players, particularly attacking players you need to be able to let them make mistakes and be inconsistent. 
These days, on here in particular you get a game before you’re written off.

You need a manager who isn’t afraid to put you in and players round about you who will put an arm around you, encourage you and kick your arse when you’re not on it.

Naismith excepted I’ve not seen much evidence of any of this

 

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On 28/11/2020 at 21:19, olivialinnell said:

Hearts ruin their young lads mentally, don't offer them any guidance. A young lad Dylin released himself due to problems and coaches already have there favourites the clubs a joke.


Don’t know where to start with that post but lets try. I assume you have more inside knowledge of the club than any of us to say that though. 
 

Coaches always have their favourites , thats common place amongst every sport with players and coaches , young players , older players. They see different things in them its been like that as long as I have been around football. Thats human nature. I played for the same manager three times at different clubs and every time I went to the club he was at I walked into the team. Similarly Iv played for managers who didn’t fancy me and I could have stonkers of games and still not get a start.  
 

Don’t offer them any guidance is absolutely not accurate. I can guarantee you that. Dylin iv no idea about , im sure @Footballfirstcan shed some light on him. 
In my experience all teams are very careful with their youngsters and helping to develop them both in football and as people. Some however its just not going to happen so who knows what is accurate with that lad. 

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59 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

I think with young players, particularly attacking players you need to be able to let them make mistakes and be inconsistent. 
These days, on here in particular you get a game before you’re written off.

You need a manager who isn’t afraid to put you in and players round about you who will put an arm around you, encourage you and kick your arse when you’re not on it.

Naismith excepted I’ve not seen much evidence of any of this

 


The guys I learnt from used to happily half you in training and would have a word when playing but itd be off the pitch or at training they’d take the time to help you learn. I think thats the best way can you imagine playing and someone is constantly telling you to do x or y when you are learning the ropes your head would explode. Now imagine doing that in front of fans baying for blood because you look a bit lost. No arms around you will help you with that , you have to mentally learn to not let it affect you and to push through by hard work and taking the time to put extra work in. 
 

Too many kids have it easy nowadays at clubs in my opinion. We used to have to sweep terracing , clean up rubbish , clean boots , clean changing rooms , run errands for older pros or groundsman and many other bits and pieces aswell and train/learn. 
It works two ways though. I was willing to put time in and the likes of United courted me by the looking after my family , inviting them to Utd v Hearts games general wining and dining. They also sent a coach up to where I lived on a Friday night and coach me for 2/3 hours every week off his own back. 

Now it seems to be train , ***** about and go to Nandos 🤣

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olivialinnell
1 hour ago, sadj said:


Don’t know where to start with that post but lets try. I assume you have more inside knowledge of the club than any of us to say that though. 
 

Coaches always have their favourites , thats common place amongst every sport with players and coaches , young players , older players. They see different things in them its been like that as long as I have been around football. Thats human nature. I played for the same manager three times at different clubs and every time I went to the club he was at I walked into the team. Similarly Iv played for managers who didn’t fancy me and I could have stonkers of games and still not get a start.  
 

Don’t offer them any guidance is absolutely not accurate. I can guarantee you that. Dylin iv no idea about , im sure @Footballfirstcan shed some light on him. 
In my experience all teams are very careful with their youngsters and helping to develop them both in football and as people. Some however its just not going to happen so who knows what is accurate with that lad. 

 

I spoke with someone I know from within the academy, and he said he was 'developing well' Hearts asked him to play with the younger age groups of course he obliged. Covid, has probably goosed any chance he had of a new contract at the club. He's a great young lad, and there where other clubs at the time he signed for the club interested.

 

He was told he would play a game against Hibs lately, and then didn't and this turned his head. He then released himself from his contract at the club of which it took longer than it should probably because the club where 'scared' another pro-youth side may poach or sign him up straight away. He's 16 soon, and there's no doubting there is an ability there for him to get back to that level.

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4 minutes ago, olivialinnell said:

 

I spoke with someone I know from within the academy, and he said he was 'developing well' Hearts asked him to play with the younger age groups of course he obliged. Covid, has probably goosed any chance he had of a new contract at the club. He's a great young lad, and there where other clubs at the time he signed for the club interested.

 

He was told he would play a game against Hibs lately, and then didn't and this turned his head. He then released himself from his contract at the club of which it took longer than it should probably because the club where 'scared' another pro-youth side may poach or sign him up straight away. He's 16 soon, and there's no doubting there is an ability there for him to get back to that level.


If he behaves like that because he doesnt get to play in a game there in lies the problem I would say. Ability means nothing if your attitude is wrong but as I say Footballfirst is the man to ask about him. 
 

That post is completely different to your original one though...

 

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olivialinnell
1 minute ago, sadj said:


If he behaves like that because he doesnt get to play in a game there in lies the problem I would say. Ability means nothing if your attitude is wrong but as I say Footballfirst is the man to ask about him. 
 

That post is completely different to your original one though...

 

I didn't complete what I had added given I wasn't registered at the time.

 

I wouldn't say his attitude is a problem, but to be given 'glowing' reports in terms of development and the club lying to him in regards to game time i'd be pretty fobbed off aswell, would you not?

 

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Footballfirst
16 minutes ago, sadj said:


If he behaves like that because he doesnt get to play in a game there in lies the problem I would say. Ability means nothing if your attitude is wrong but as I say Footballfirst is the man to ask about him. 
 

That post is completely different to your original one though...

 

I haven't watched any Academy games for almost a year so can't really comment on any individual player's recent development. The only "Dylan (sp?)" I know is a 2005  keeper and hasn't been at the academy long term. 

 

In general terms, I've come to expect the the parents of kids who leave the academy, or don't get contracts, or have contracts renewed, always have a complaint that their kid wasn't treated fairly by their coaches and that their ability was unquestionable.

 

The reality is that 95% of academy kids don't get a full time contract, primarily because their coaches don't believe that they have the ability to progress to the first team, even with continued development. 

 

There are very few players who are released by Hearts before they get a full time contract that "make it" with a club at Hearts level.

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6 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

I don’t see anything in Henderson, he will never make it for me. Miles short of anything that makes a quality footballer. He’s neat and tidy enough but produces absolutely nothing. 
Ive never seen so many one paced players than in this Hearts team atm. Literally no one with anything even resembling pace in any position other than Ginnely and the more he’s out of the team the more important he appears and better he seems to be getting by the week. 
 

Personally think Henderson has the potential to be a very good player, just needs to work on his concentration and his awareness of how the game is played etc. 

 

Just my opinion though. 

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1 hour ago, sadj said:


The guys I learnt from used to happily half you in training and would have a word when playing but itd be off the pitch or at training they’d take the time to help you learn. I think thats the best way can you imagine playing and someone is constantly telling you to do x or y when you are learning the ropes your head would explode. Now imagine doing that in front of fans baying for blood because you look a bit lost. No arms around you will help you with that , you have to mentally learn to not let it affect you and to push through by hard work and taking the time to put extra work in. 
 

Too many kids have it easy nowadays at clubs in my opinion. We used to have to sweep terracing , clean up rubbish , clean boots , clean changing rooms , run errands for older pros or groundsman and many other bits and pieces aswell and train/learn. 
It works two ways though. I was willing to put time in and the likes of United courted me by the looking after my family , inviting them to Utd v Hearts games general wining and dining. They also sent a coach up to where I lived on a Friday night and coach me for 2/3 hours every week off his own back. 

Now it seems to be train , ***** about and go to Nandos 🤣

Do young players get as much time now, in your opinion bud?

I dunno if social media was about when you played.

Couldn’t agree more about the cleaning boots etc.

Saw Hickey on STV News tonight and looks like he has his head right

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1 hour ago, olivialinnell said:

I didn't complete what I had added given I wasn't registered at the time.

 

I wouldn't say his attitude is a problem, but to be given 'glowing' reports in terms of development and the club lying to him in regards to game time i'd be pretty fobbed off aswell, would you not?

 


No I wouldn’t as I wouldn’t see it as lying. Football can be like that in my opinion. If his attitude is to want away because he didn’t get a game after being told he would then he either needs to look at his expectations or realise in football things can change fast and learn to adapt to that. I started in goals my dad was a keeper and his dad , My first Boys club coach played his son in goal consistently despite the fact it was evident I was a better keeper. I didn’t have tantrums about it. My dad said to me I had ability with the ball at my feet aswell as in goal as did my dad’s Uncle (allegedly one of our best ever😉). At training the week after I decided to take the ball and go for a wee run with it took it the length of the pitch and squared it for someone as they had a better position to score. I got put up front in our next game and things went from there. It would have been easy to have a huff at not getting to play but I didn’t. Even then , im not some famous name , my knee went and I had to retire. As Footballfirst says its a small number who make it and an even smaller number who go on to make a proper name for themselves. You have to give your all , be dedicated and work your arse off on and off the pitch and training field but there is no guarantee’s that will be enough. 

“Glowing” reports are also great but it doesn’t always translate into something. For instance people slate Craig Wighton on the pitch , but in training they will give you a “glowing” report on him. Some

have said he’s one of the best they’ve seen. (Neil McCann I think said similar to that just last week) 

 

 

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

I haven't watched any Academy games for almost a year so can't really comment on any individual player's recent development. The only "Dylan (sp?)" I know is a 2005  keeper and hasn't been at the academy long term. 

 

In general terms, I've come to expect the the parents of kids who leave the academy, or don't get contracts, or have contracts renewed, always have a complaint that their kid wasn't treated fairly by their coaches and that their ability was unquestionable.

 

The reality is that 95% of academy kids don't get a full time contract, primarily because their coaches don't believe that they have the ability to progress to the first team, even with continued development. 

 

There are very few players who are released by Hearts before they get a full time contract that "make it" with a club at Hearts level.


very good post imo

 

52 minutes ago, Jamhammer said:

Do young players get as much time now, in your opinion bud?

I dunno if social media was about when you played.

Couldn’t agree more about the cleaning boots etc.

Saw Hickey on STV News tonight and looks like he has his head right


I don’t think they do , certainly at higher levels I would say they don’t. Been like that since we saw the influx of foreigners into the Scottish game I would say. I always used to enjoy Hearts in particular as we’d have a great mix of youngsters and seasoned pro’s.


Na social media wasn’t a thing when I was a kiddo and Id long since had to “retire”before we even got off dial up modems 🤣

 

Yeah Hickey really seems clued up , clubs help youths with dealing with the good and bad that comes with football which I think has to be a good thing. People like Riordan and O’Connor may well have had much better careers if that had been standard practice in those days. Italian teams have a much better policy on these things I think. Even when I was a kid Juve were willing to treat you as though you were an asset not just a number. If that makes sense.
 

You can’t force them to be clued up , look at the likes of Cochrane who has a lot more potential than he has shown so far and who most definitely lost his way with his attitude. 
 

Storytime with Sadj is over for tonight folks , if you require put to sleep again please join me again tomorrow 💁🏻‍♂️

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On 28/11/2020 at 17:36, Nunya Business said:

Anyone able to rhyme off a list of youth prospects we've brought through in the last 6 years?

Erm....Harry Cochrane, Aaron Hickey, Callumn Morrison, Andy Irving, Lewis Moore, Liam Smith, Euan Henderson & Angus Beith and Callum Patterson.

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30 minutes ago, sadj said:


No I wouldn’t as I wouldn’t see it as lying. Football can be like that in my opinion. If his attitude is to want away because he didn’t get a game after being told he would then he either needs to look at his expectations or realise in football things can change fast and learn to adapt to that. I started in goals my dad was a keeper and his dad , My first Boys club coach played his son in goal consistently despite the fact it was evident I was a better keeper. I didn’t have tantrums about it. My dad said to me I had ability with the ball at my feet aswell as in goal as did my dad’s Uncle (allegedly one of our best ever😉). At training the week after I decided to take the ball and go for a wee run with it took it the length of the pitch and squared it for someone as they had a better position to score. I got put up front in our next game and things went from there. It would have been easy to have a huff at not getting to play but I didn’t. Even then , im not some famous name , my knee went and I had to retire. As Footballfirst says its a small number who make it and an even smaller number who go on to make a proper name for themselves. You have to give your all , be dedicated and work your arse off on and off the pitch and training field but there is no guarantee’s that will be enough. 

“Glowing” reports are also great but it doesn’t always translate into something. For instance people slate Craig Wighton on the pitch , but in training they will give you a “glowing” report on him. Some

have said he’s one of the best they’ve seen. (Neil McCann I think said similar to that just last week) 

 

 


very good post imo

 


I don’t think they do , certainly at higher levels I would say they don’t. Been like that since we saw the influx of foreigners into the Scottish game I would say. I always used to enjoy Hearts in particular as we’d have a great mix of youngsters and seasoned pro’s.


Na social media wasn’t a thing when I was a kiddo and Id long since had to “retire”before we even got off dial up modems 🤣

 

Yeah Hickey really seems clued up , clubs help youths with dealing with the good and bad that comes with football which I think has to be a good thing. People like Riordan and O’Connor may well have had much better careers if that had been standard practice in those days. Italian teams have a much better policy on these things I think. Even when I was a kid Juve were willing to treat you as though you were an asset not just a number. If that makes sense.
 

You can’t force them to be clued up , look at the likes of Cochrane who has a lot more potential than he has shown so far and who most definitely lost his way with his attitude. 
 

Storytime with Sadj is over for tonight folks , if you require put to sleep again please join me again tomorrow 💁🏻‍♂️

No mate the insight is much appreciated and balanced. Vast majority of us have no idea of what goes on in training etc at pro clubs.

Then again some of our players don’t appear to either 😀

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I don't think many understand how difficult it is to make it as a professional footballer especially at a club the size of Hearts. We all slate players but the level these guys play at is way above what most could ever achieve. Albeit you need a bit luck, the dedication, fitness levels, speed, skill, awareness, positional sense, tactical knowhow required is off the scale.

 

The Hearts legends team for example very rarely lose, these guys are in their 40's now but young lads who think they can play can't get near them. 

 

If we see 1 academy player a year we'll be doing well, there's 1000's trying to make it very few ever do.

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6 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

I don't think many understand how difficult it is to make it as a professional footballer especially at a club the size of Hearts. We all slate players but the level these guys play at is way above what most could ever achieve. Albeit you need a bit luck, the dedication, fitness levels, speed, skill, awareness, positional sense, tactical knowhow required is off the scale.

 

The Hearts legends team for example very rarely lose, these guys are in their 40's now but young lads who think they can play can't get near them. 

 

If we see 1 academy player a year we'll be doing well, there's 1000's trying to make it very few ever do.

Our club isn't big enough or rich enough to take a chance on developing young players. 

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Think some people tend to forget that players are still developing after they come out of the academy.  Even the few who are lucky enough to earn there first pro contract still have a long way to go to make it to top level football.  
 

  Levein was credited in the past with transforming Dundee Utd’s youth set up.  The same was to happen when he made changes to the model of the academy in 2015.  It’s probably still too early to say how much difference those changes made.  
 

Let’s for arguments sake say that graduates from the academy from 2017 onwards have been developed under the new regime, those youngsters are still only 20 and are still developing.  Here’s the list of academy players who signed pro contracts with Hearts since 2017.

 

2017

 

Euan Henderson - Hearts 1st team squad

Jay Sandison - On loan Linlithgow Rose

Connor Smith - On loan Arbroath

Chris Hamilton - On loan Dumbarton 

Harry Cochrane- On loan Montrose

 

Dean Ritchie - LEFT CLUB (now at Airdrieonians)

Anthony MacDonald - LEFT CLUB (now at Cordoba)

Marc Leonard - LEFT CLUB (now at Brighton & Hove Albion)

 

2018

 

Cammy Logan - Hearts reserves

Leeroy Makarova - On loan at Brechin

Sean Ward - On loan at Gala Fairydean

Scott McGill - Hearts first team squad

Mackenzie Lawler - on loan at Berwick Rangers

 

Aaron Hickey - LEFT CLUB (now at Bologna)

Josh Grigor- LEFT CLUB (now at Stenhousemuir)

Brodie Strang - LEFT CLUB (now at Livingston)

Dino Leddie - LEFT CLUB (now at Hibs)

 

2019

 

Leon Watson - On loan at Bonnyrigg

Aaron Darge - u18’s

Jay Charleston-King - u18’s

Ryan Schiavone - u18’s

Sean Docherty - u18’s

 

2020

 

Aiden Denholm

Harry Gordon

Michael Aitken

Mackenzie Kirk

Harry Sprat

 

 

 Of those that have left I believe we got a fee for Leonard and Hickey, somewhere in the region of £1.7M for both (estimate).

 

It’ll be a few years yet before we can judge how well the new set up at the academy works for us.

 

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Mr Brightside
12 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Personally think Henderson has the potential to be a very good player, just needs to work on his concentration and his awareness of how the game is played etc. 

 

Just my opinion though. 

I agree, think he would be a much better option than Frear or Roberts and should be getting some game time.

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Nunya Business
13 hours ago, steven_mck said:

Erm....Harry Cochrane, Aaron Hickey, Callumn Morrison, Andy Irving, Lewis Moore, Liam Smith, Euan Henderson & Angus Beith and Callum Patterson.

 

Cochrane - on loan at Montrose. 

Hickey - came from Celtic. 

Morrison - released and now in League 1. 

Irving - can't get into the side ahead of Olly Lee.

Moore - Nowhere to be seen.

Smith - Released.

Henderson - Debut 3 years ago, 23 appearances since.

Angus Keith - Released with 2 appearances to his name.

Calum Paterson - You're about 2 years too late there.

 

Good one mate :laugh: 

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22 hours ago, Naisysback said:

Becasue they are kids. Go and look at pics of Kieran Tierney when he 1st came into the Celtic team and look at him now.  Now he is a grown up, his bones have grown to capacity so the muscles can now build. This just plays to the big, physical unit argument. Look at Grear, Roberts, full grown men yet cant cope with the football, not becasue of their physique becasue they arent good enough footballers. This physical thing is a myth, if you have a football brain then you are going to be bale to cope with physicality becasue you know its coming and you can ensure you dont get hurt. I am not saying that players shouldnt be strong but they need to fill out their bodies first then they become physical...

I've been watching a lot of Maradona videos the last week and the kicking he used to get was incredible compared to modern players. If he played now pretty much every match would get abandoned as the opposition wouldn't have enough players still on the pitch, and the pitches in the 80s were no better than Championship pitches now...Scotland now is less physical that Italy in the 80s, yet the same mindset is applied:

 

Need to be tall, need to have an engine, need to be strong in the tackle...We are not ever going to develop a team of Ronaldos, Maradonas, or Messia. Building a team of same-y clones is not the key. Building a team with complementary talents is the key ie

  • if you have one slow CM, then put in another who has pace to play alongside; 
  • If you have one CB who is short or cannot jump, ensure the other is very good in the air;
  • A winger who can cross a ball is better than a fast runner who can't or a tricky dribbler who doesn't!
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47 minutes ago, Spellczech said:

I've been watching a lot of Maradona videos the last week and the kicking he used to get was incredible compared to modern players. If he played now pretty much every match would get abandoned as the opposition wouldn't have enough players still on the pitch, and the pitches in the 80s were no better than Championship pitches now...Scotland now is less physical that Italy in the 80s, yet the same mindset is applied:

 

Need to be tall, need to have an engine, need to be strong in the tackle...We are not ever going to develop a team of Ronaldos, Maradonas, or Messia. Building a team of same-y clones is not the key. Building a team with complementary talents is the key ie

  • if you have one slow CM, then put in another who has pace to play alongside; 
  • If you have one CB who is short or cannot jump, ensure the other is very good in the air;
  • A winger who can cross a ball is better than a fast runner who can't or a tricky dribbler who doesn't!

Well said however the coaches need to be sble to develop technical players. Not being funny but McCulloch and Neilson were hardly the most technically gifted players. Gordon Forrest is a very good coach but unless he is tailoring sessions for technical players then it will be the same dross playing every week.

 

Coming through the academy years I watched a midfield of Cochrane, Leonard and Mcdonald absolutely rip teams apart and I include the lauded Billy Gilmour in that, boys never gave him a kick.  They go jnto 1st team ,play the same way and everyone is excited...nanager says, need to bulk up, need yo defend better....jeez the players you mentioned wouldnt have got a game at Hearts.....

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Pasquale for King
15 hours ago, Getintaethem said:

Think some people tend to forget that players are still developing after they come out of the academy.  Even the few who are lucky enough to earn there first pro contract still have a long way to go to make it to top level football.  
 

  Levein was credited in the past with transforming Dundee Utd’s youth set up.  The same was to happen when he made changes to the model of the academy in 2015.  It’s probably still too early to say how much difference those changes made.  
 

Let’s for arguments sake say that graduates from the academy from 2017 onwards have been developed under the new regime, those youngsters are still only 20 and are still developing.  Here’s the list of academy players who signed pro contracts with Hearts since 2017.

 

2017

 

Euan Henderson - Hearts 1st team squad

Jay Sandison - On loan Linlithgow Rose

Connor Smith - On loan Arbroath

Chris Hamilton - On loan Dumbarton 

Harry Cochrane- On loan Montrose

 

Dean Ritchie - LEFT CLUB (now at Airdrieonians)

Anthony MacDonald - LEFT CLUB (now at Cordoba)

Marc Leonard - LEFT CLUB (now at Brighton & Hove Albion)

 

2018

 

Cammy Logan - Hearts reserves

Leeroy Makarova - On loan at Brechin

Sean Ward - On loan at Gala Fairydean

Scott McGill - Hearts first team squad

Mackenzie Lawler - on loan at Berwick Rangers

 

Aaron Hickey - LEFT CLUB (now at Bologna)

Josh Grigor- LEFT CLUB (now at Stenhousemuir)

Brodie Strang - LEFT CLUB (now at Livingston)

Dino Leddie - LEFT CLUB (now at Hibs)

 

2019

 

Leon Watson - On loan at Bonnyrigg

Aaron Darge - u18’s

Jay Charleston-King - u18’s

Ryan Schiavone - u18’s

Sean Docherty - u18’s

 

2020

 

Aiden Denholm

Harry Gordon

Michael Aitken

Mackenzie Kirk

Harry Sprat

 

 

 Of those that have left I believe we got a fee for Leonard and Hickey, somewhere in the region of £1.7M for both (estimate).

 

It’ll be a few years yet before we can judge how well the new set up at the academy works for us.

 

As most people who look to give Levein credit you leave out certain statistics and on this occasion players. 
Why not include the 2015/16 players that Levein was in charge of? Guys like Moore and Morrison. 
What youngsters came through the youth system at United that he gave himself credit for? Most of the good ones were there before he made himself DoF. 
It’s too early to judge it after 6 years (he started it in 2014) and over £4m spent on it, are you serious? A quick look at those players gives anyone an idea of how it’s going. 
He was also manager when these youngsters graduated to the first team, gave them a few games and banished them never to be seen again. Add in the awful level of coaching. Budge has said we want to change the way players progress and give them more support. 
Marc Leonard is a timely reminder, couldn’t wait to get away because the football played by Levein didn’t suit him as a midfielder. 
 

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2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

As most people who look to give Levein credit you leave out certain statistics and on this occasion players. 
Why not include the 2015/16 players that Levein was in charge of? Guys like Moore and Morrison. 
What youngsters came through the youth system at United that he gave himself credit for? Most of the good ones were there before he made himself DoF. 
It’s too early to judge it after 6 years (he started it in 2014) and over £4m spent on it, are you serious? A quick look at those players gives anyone an idea of how it’s going. 
He was also manager when these youngsters graduated to the first team, gave them a few games and banished them never to be seen again. Add in the awful level of coaching. Budge has said we want to change the way players progress and give them more support. 
Marc Leonard is a timely reminder, couldn’t wait to get away because the football played by Levein didn’t suit him as a midfielder. 
 


Too be fair I wasn’t giving Levein credit, you’re looking in the wrong place for that.

 

If you can find details of the players who earned contracts when graduating from the academy pre 2017 then crack on, going back four years was time consuming enough.  Part of the reason I started in 2017 was to give a fair assessment of how the academy has performed after the changes in structure was made and had time to take effect.  The post was in response to questions about whether the academy was worth persevering with in its current form.  In my opinion it’s too early to say.  It’s probably too early to say whether Marc Leonard made the right decision also.  
 

  

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Pasquale for King
41 minutes ago, Getintaethem said:


Too be fair I wasn’t giving Levein credit, you’re looking in the wrong place for that.

 

If you can find details of the players who earned contracts when graduating from the academy pre 2017 then crack on, going back four years was time consuming enough.  Part of the reason I started in 2017 was to give a fair assessment of how the academy has performed after the changes in structure was made and had time to take effect.  The post was in response to questions about whether the academy was worth persevering with in its current form.  In my opinion it’s too early to say.  It’s probably too early to say whether Marc Leonard made the right decision also.  
 

  

Fair enough. 
I believe it’s worth continuing with but we need far better value than we’ve had recently, and better coaching to help them progress. Teams like Motherwell and others seem to be doing far better than us, thankfully Hibs are even worse. 

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Nunya Business

We keep hearing stories about exciting young players with bags of potential who then disappear into oblivion. Is there an attitude problem at Hearts? I'm sure Levein claimed Anthony McDonald was one of the most exciting young players he'd ever seen, yet he only made 17 appearances for the club in 2 and a half years.

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9 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Fair enough. 
I believe it’s worth continuing with but we need far better value than we’ve had recently, and better coaching to help them progress. Teams like Motherwell and others seem to be doing far better than us, thankfully Hibs are even worse. 

 I also think that the £4m figure also includes the use of the state of the art training facility, gym, sports science equipment etc.  So probably isn’t a true reflection of what’s actually spent on youth development.

 

Personally I think it’s worth sticking with.  I’m still hoping we’ll produce the new Robbo :) .   In my generation we produced Robbo, my fathers generation had Willie Bauld, it’s about time we had someone my sons can cheer about!

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14 minutes ago, Nunya Business said:

We keep hearing stories about exciting young players with bags of potential who then disappear into oblivion. Is there an attitude problem at Hearts? I'm sure Levein claimed Anthony McDonald was one of the most exciting young players he'd ever seen, yet he only made 17 appearances for the club in 2 and a half years.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/i-was-angry-ex-hearts-starlet-anthony-mcdonald-craig-levein-loan-decision-and-praise-daniel-stendel-3053868%3Famp&ved=2ahUKEwiZm5PuqK3tAhVOiFwKHbEgCKMQ0PADMBd6BAgxEAw&usg=AOvVaw3K93VWZPu6u_RN9SFqB_ac&ampcf=1

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'I was angry' - Ex-Hearts starlet Anthony McDonald on Craig Levein loan decision and praise for Daniel Stendel
Former Hearts starlet Anthony McDonald admitted he was “angry” at Craig Levein’s decision to loan him to Dunfermline Athletic last season.
By Joel Sked
Tuesday, 1st December 2020, 4:45 pm
 
Anthony Mcdonald is in Spain after leaving Hearts. Picture: SNS
Anthony Mcdonald is in Spain after leaving Hearts. Picture: SNS
The 19-year-old left Tynecastle this past summer to join Spanish side Cordoba in a “fresh start” after a difficult final season in Gorgie.
 
McDonald thought he was primed to be a part of the first-team last campaign after impressing in the Betfred Cup, including netting his only goal for the club in a win over Cowdenbeath.
 
However, Levein, who recognised the creative talents of the midfielder felt he needed to improve on his “defensive duties”, opted to lend him to the Pars.
 
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“I scored in the League Cup and I was doing well,” McDonald told the Scots Abroad podcast. “I was angry he wanted me out on loan.
 
"I was ready to play. I was scoring nigh on every game for the reserves, playing well, I had a run of games. That was probably the best I’ve felt in the past few years playing football because I was training at a good level, I was performing well.
 
 
"Obviously I picked up the injury before I went to Dunfermline but I was really disappointed when he said to me I was going out on loan.
 
"I’m young and you can say it was greedy but I don’t think it was greedy, I thought I was ready to play, ready to compete for a place in the team. I’m not saying that I was wanting to start every week but I think I was ready to compete for a place in the team.”
 
 
McDonald, who is yet to play for his new side due to a back injury, played just twice for Dunfermline before being recalled by Daniel Stendel.
 
Despite just two sub appearances under the German, the player took a liking to the former Tynecastle boss.
 
With Stendel everything was a hundred miles an hour,” McDonald said. “Everything was pressure, running, pressure, pressure. If you can get it right, unreal.
 
"Maybe the language barrier, it was sometimes a little bit difficult for him to get his points across but you could tell he was a very, very good coach.
 
 
“I liked him. He spoke to me fairly regularly, said to me what he wanted from me. He was very good, mad but good.”
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Pasquale for King
1 hour ago, Getintaethem said:

 I also think that the £4m figure also includes the use of the state of the art training facility, gym, sports science equipment etc.  So probably isn’t a true reflection of what’s actually spent on youth development.

 

Personally I think it’s worth sticking with.  I’m still hoping we’ll produce the new Robbo :) .   In my generation we produced Robbo, my fathers generation had Willie Bauld, it’s about time we had someone my sons can cheer about!

That is something to hold out for definitely, I remember seeing him in a pub and saying to my future wife “that man has given me more joy than any other man will ever give me”. She just gave me that look she always does when I try to explain something about Hearts 😆

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Pasquale for King
20 hours ago, Bongo 1874 said:

 

 
 

 

 
 
'I was angry' - Ex-Hearts starlet Anthony McDonald on Craig Levein loan decision and praise for Daniel Stendel
Former Hearts starlet Anthony McDonald admitted he was “angry” at Craig Levein’s decision to loan him to Dunfermline Athletic last season.
By Joel Sked
Tuesday, 1st December 2020, 4:45 pm
 
Anthony Mcdonald is in Spain after leaving Hearts. Picture: SNS
Anthony Mcdonald is in Spain after leaving Hearts. Picture: SNS
The 19-year-old left Tynecastle this past summer to join Spanish side Cordoba in a “fresh start” after a difficult final season in Gorgie.
 
McDonald thought he was primed to be a part of the first-team last campaign after impressing in the Betfred Cup, including netting his only goal for the club in a win over Cowdenbeath.
 
However, Levein, who recognised the creative talents of the midfielder felt he needed to improve on his “defensive duties”, opted to lend him to the Pars.
 
Sign up
to our Hearts newsletter
Enter your email
 
 
 
 
“I scored in the League Cup and I was doing well,” McDonald told the Scots Abroad podcast. “I was angry he wanted me out on loan.
 
"I was ready to play. I was scoring nigh on every game for the reserves, playing well, I had a run of games. That was probably the best I’ve felt in the past few years playing football because I was training at a good level, I was performing well.
 
 
"Obviously I picked up the injury before I went to Dunfermline but I was really disappointed when he said to me I was going out on loan.
 
"I’m young and you can say it was greedy but I don’t think it was greedy, I thought I was ready to play, ready to compete for a place in the team. I’m not saying that I was wanting to start every week but I think I was ready to compete for a place in the team.”
 
 
McDonald, who is yet to play for his new side due to a back injury, played just twice for Dunfermline before being recalled by Daniel Stendel.
 
Despite just two sub appearances under the German, the player took a liking to the former Tynecastle boss.
 
With Stendel everything was a hundred miles an hour,” McDonald said. “Everything was pressure, running, pressure, pressure. If you can get it right, unreal.
 
"Maybe the language barrier, it was sometimes a little bit difficult for him to get his points across but you could tell he was a very, very good coach.
 
 
“I liked him. He spoke to me fairly regularly, said to me what he wanted from me. He was very good, mad but good.”

I would imagine he will be playing as a number 10 now, he’s never a winger. Either was Walker. I actually think Nicholson might well be better at 10 too, if you think of the pass he slipped through to Sow for the winner at Ibrox, or his goals he contributed much more centrally. You can say the same about Walker. I can’t think of an instance of us scoring from a cross from any other those three. 
I can think of a few others who were played in positions that didn’t suit them as youngsters by various coaches and managers, that also doesn’t help their progression. 

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21 hours ago, Nunya Business said:

We keep hearing stories about exciting young players with bags of potential who then disappear into oblivion. Is there an attitude problem at Hearts? I'm sure Levein claimed Anthony McDonald was one of the most exciting young players he'd ever seen, yet he only made 17 appearances for the club in 2 and a half years.

Think the attitude problem is with the coaching staff not the kids, they just want to play football. McDonald was lonaed out for a year of the period you are talking about so 17 appearances in a year and a half. Problem for him and others like him was the number of players that club signed when Levein took over, 30+ and thats what stopped these boys developing the way they should have. 

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Nunya Business
30 minutes ago, Naisysback said:

Think the attitude problem is with the coaching staff not the kids, they just want to play football. McDonald was lonaed out for a year of the period you are talking about so 17 appearances in a year and a half. Problem for him and others like him was the number of players that club signed when Levein took over, 30+ and thats what stopped these boys developing the way they should have. 


You’re right about the coaching at the club. McDonald being told he was going to Dunfermline to learn more about his defensive duties? That’s just absurd. Symptomatic of the wider issue in football. 
 

First priority isn’t to win the game, it’s to make sure you don’t lose it. 

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